| Harassment allegations - advice? 08:37 - Oct 19 with 9969 views | Zx1988 |
I've recently commenced a money claim in the Small Claims Court against a former client who has opted not to pay for my services, despite the existence of a contract etc., essentially a fairly straightforward affair, but that's by the by.
Yesterday I received a call from an officer at my local police station advising that the defendant has made a complaint of harassment against me, and we have agreed that he will visit me this evening to discuss her claims.
I do not believe that I have undertaken any conduct that constitutes harassment. I have sent the defendant three letters:
*The legally-required Letter Before Claim
*A letter containing a copy of the claim form sent to HMCTS along with an offer to settle
*A subsequent offer to settle (and confirmation of my intention to see the claim through) following the defendant's refusal to engage with the HMCTS-appointed arbitration service
I don't believe any of the above conduct is unreasonable in the context of an ongoing legal case, and I would suggest that the lack of unreasonableness is sufficient to meet the following defence:
That in the particular circumstance the purported action is held to be reasonable.
I guess the counter-point is that this is the first time I have been involved with the police as a suspect and, sitting on this overnight, I'm worried that it might not go as simply as I'm hoping. I know that this is simply an attempt by the defendant to try and frustrate the process and intimidate me into dropping my claim, but on the other side I know that the police tend to have a bit of a thing about harassment, especially when it's alleged to have been committed by a man against a woman.
Can anyone offer me any thoughts as to what I should expect?
Part of me is inclined to believe that the officer will try to offer me a First Harassment Warning in that it will allow him to easily tie the matter up, and I'll be let off with no real action, but given that an FHW can be disclosed by an enhanced DBS check, and (as is my understanding) I've done nothing wrong, I don't want to feel coerced into accepting this outcome. What is likely to happen if an FHW is offered and refused?
Thanks! |  |
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:20 - Oct 19 with 644 views | chicoazul |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:08 - Oct 19 by ZXBlue |
Spot on.
Is it any wonder that police become cynical and are prone to pre-forming views on things when they meet such hostility and subterfuge over the simplest matter which could be resolved in minutes. |
Good to see you acknowledge the Police are cynical and prejudiced. Weird to see you now think acting within the law is an example of subterfuge but wel’ll get you there.
Nor is it any wonder the public who the Police are supposed to serve become cynical and prone to pre forming views about them when the Home Secretary and members of the Lords say they are corrupt. |  |
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:21 - Oct 19 with 639 views | chicoazul |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 13:34 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
or alternatively - if you have nothing to hide or fear then do your best to support those who's job is primarily to preserve life and protect property eh?
For every awful example of Police incompetence or misconduct (and 1 is still too many) there are thousands of examples where they help and provide support to those in need. Unfortunately the high profile misconduct and chav voices attract more attention than the grateful many who have benefited from Police support for various reasons.
Those with the most negative perception of policing are generally those who have been in and around criminal activity - they probably see that as a coincidence. |
“If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear”, terrible point of view. | |
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:25 - Oct 19 with 629 views | Herbivore |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:20 - Oct 19 by chicoazul |
Good to see you acknowledge the Police are cynical and prejudiced. Weird to see you now think acting within the law is an example of subterfuge but wel’ll get you there.
Nor is it any wonder the public who the Police are supposed to serve become cynical and prone to pre forming views about them when the Home Secretary and members of the Lords say they are corrupt. |
Bringing the views of Priti Patel into it doesn't do much for your argument, mate. She says whatever plays well to the base, she doesn't believe any of it. She was the best friend of the Met when they followed her orders to heavy handedly deal with the Sarah Everard vigil. Now she's realised most of the public actually condemn violence against women she's gone the other way. |  |
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:26 - Oct 19 with 627 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 13:34 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
or alternatively - if you have nothing to hide or fear then do your best to support those who's job is primarily to preserve life and protect property eh?
For every awful example of Police incompetence or misconduct (and 1 is still too many) there are thousands of examples where they help and provide support to those in need. Unfortunately the high profile misconduct and chav voices attract more attention than the grateful many who have benefited from Police support for various reasons.
Those with the most negative perception of policing are generally those who have been in and around criminal activity - they probably see that as a coincidence. |
Not sure whether all that is directed at me but not sure why having legal representation would hinder the job of a policeman.
How Is suggesting having legal representation when dealing with somebody whose primary purpose is enforcement of law (ie the police) in any way projecting a negative perception of policing? | | | |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:26 - Oct 19 with 623 views | ZXBlue |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:21 - Oct 19 by chicoazul |
“If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear”, terrible point of view. |
Usuually entirely accurate.
It is amazing how most of us decent law abiding folk dont seem to have any difficulties with the police. | | | |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:29 - Oct 19 with 613 views | chicoazul |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:25 - Oct 19 by Herbivore |
Bringing the views of Priti Patel into it doesn't do much for your argument, mate. She says whatever plays well to the base, she doesn't believe any of it. She was the best friend of the Met when they followed her orders to heavy handedly deal with the Sarah Everard vigil. Now she's realised most of the public actually condemn violence against women she's gone the other way. |
I don’t disagree with any of this but it’s also true she was reporting on the independent inquiries findings. | |
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:32 - Oct 19 with 607 views | chicoazul |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:26 - Oct 19 by ZXBlue |
Usuually entirely accurate.
It is amazing how most of us decent law abiding folk dont seem to have any difficulties with the police. |
And it’s amazing how many decent law abiding folk do have problems with them. Im not surprised but I am disappointed that my simple point of having legal representation or even just a friend with you when you are asked to speak to the Police after a complaint against you has attracted such ire. TWTDs authoritarianism is bottomless. | |
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:34 - Oct 19 with 606 views | PassionNotAnger |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:21 - Oct 19 by chicoazul |
“If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear”, terrible point of view. |
That may be your opinion of course but for the vast majority of the population (but of course, not all of the population) who are law abiding and act in a reasonable way it is very much true - they do not have to fear the Police and therefore don't (which is very separate to those who have some concerns or cynicism about some police officers/forces and/or practices - legitimate or not).
For some demographics of people and/or places their experiences will be different, it may be inappropriate policing (and there are some institutionalised failings in some forces at times) and they may be unduly disrupted but that doesn't and shouldn't necessarily equate into being fearful of the police. | | | |
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:42 - Oct 19 with 588 views | chicoazul |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:34 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
That may be your opinion of course but for the vast majority of the population (but of course, not all of the population) who are law abiding and act in a reasonable way it is very much true - they do not have to fear the Police and therefore don't (which is very separate to those who have some concerns or cynicism about some police officers/forces and/or practices - legitimate or not).
For some demographics of people and/or places their experiences will be different, it may be inappropriate policing (and there are some institutionalised failings in some forces at times) and they may be unduly disrupted but that doesn't and shouldn't necessarily equate into being fearful of the police. |
Ah so we’re now telling solo women and black people and young Asian men how they should feel. All that undue disruption eh!! If they have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear!! | |
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:42 - Oct 19 with 585 views | markchips |
If you have house insurance there is normally a legal expenses policy attached and access to a legal helpline. If you have this I would suggest you use this to discuss the circumstances before the cops interview you. It won't cost you anything to phone several times and if you subsequently need representation this policy will cover the defence costs within a certain limit. | | | |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:43 - Oct 19 with 583 views | bluelagos |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:26 - Oct 19 by ZXBlue |
Usuually entirely accurate.
It is amazing how most of us decent law abiding folk dont seem to have any difficulties with the police. |
There are plenty of law abiding folk who do have issues with the way the police conduct themselves. Your implication is pretty insulting tbh.
Just because you have had good interactions with them does not mean others have. In my experience the vast majority have been corrupt. The honest ones have been very few. I am pleased your experience is different but to label those who have had issues with dishonest corrupt police as somehow "deserving" of it is pretty pathetic tbh. |  |
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:44 - Oct 19 with 578 views | PassionNotAnger |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:26 - Oct 19 by PrideOfTheEast |
Not sure whether all that is directed at me but not sure why having legal representation would hinder the job of a policeman.
How Is suggesting having legal representation when dealing with somebody whose primary purpose is enforcement of law (ie the police) in any way projecting a negative perception of policing? |
Yes, my comment was in response to you as you said (without any other context or highlighting a comment you were responding to):
"Never engage with the police without legal representation would be my advice"
It depends on what you deem "engaging" I guess but a huge amount of Policing is talking to members of the public about issues as witnesses, victims of crime, RTA's, etc - none of those interactions would require legal representation in the main part?
Inbuilt prejudice of many on here is obvious - they assume the Police are only going to engage with them as potential suspects in a crime but the reality for most of the population is very very different. missing persons/children, RTA's, community policing, victim support, crime prevention, crowd control etc etc all involve interaction with the police service for many people which may well go largely unnoticed and unrecognised.
Just to be clear though, I don't deny there are bad coppers, bad leaders in the police service and poor behaviour at times, exactly the same as EVERY other industry, profession and group, without exception. Doesn't make it right, but people need balance in their thought process .
Should every other football fan now see Ipswich fans collectively as homophobic and racist because of what happened at Cambridge with posters and online racial slur against the club captain? Or should they realise that one or two bad apples shouldn't reflect on everyone else? | | | |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:45 - Oct 19 with 575 views | XYZ |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:34 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
That may be your opinion of course but for the vast majority of the population (but of course, not all of the population) who are law abiding and act in a reasonable way it is very much true - they do not have to fear the Police and therefore don't (which is very separate to those who have some concerns or cynicism about some police officers/forces and/or practices - legitimate or not).
For some demographics of people and/or places their experiences will be different, it may be inappropriate policing (and there are some institutionalised failings in some forces at times) and they may be unduly disrupted but that doesn't and shouldn't necessarily equate into being fearful of the police. |
You've got to love people who claim to speak for the "vast majority" when expressing their own view. | | | |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:45 - Oct 19 with 573 views | TooManyCooks |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 12:55 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
Hmm - from the outside you appear like a little scrote who's been arrested more times than Ipswich have appointed a manager called Paul, and has now determined themselves to be a legal expert as they "know my rights bruv" and makes those in the profession laugh heartily when they repeatedly demonstrate their incompetence and lack of professional knowledge and understanding.
Alternatively you might be a pompous educated professional who knows their stuff but is unable to communicate effectively and lacks self-awareness but is too busy to actually make their point using relevant and current information.
Wonder which you are?? [Post edited 19 Oct 2021 13:53]
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You have presented two polar opposites as the only possible conclusions to your conundrum (very TWTD). There are in fact numerous alternatives, none of which are mutually exclusive, which makes it a much trickier to determine with any degree of confidence, though I doubt that will stop people here reaching ill-founded conclusions and subsequently vigorously defending them as "the truth".
The most important aspect of all this, is whether the suggestion put forward to the OP is pertinent to this matter, or not. FYI - my suggestion is to seek legal advice immediately and to not under any circumstances speak to the Police voluntarily, or otherwise, without a Solicitor present, which by the way, is a free service provided by a duty solicitor, despite the contestation of a particular poster on this thread. | |
| hedgehog flavoured cucumbers |
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:46 - Oct 19 with 571 views | chicoazul |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:44 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
Yes, my comment was in response to you as you said (without any other context or highlighting a comment you were responding to):
"Never engage with the police without legal representation would be my advice"
It depends on what you deem "engaging" I guess but a huge amount of Policing is talking to members of the public about issues as witnesses, victims of crime, RTA's, etc - none of those interactions would require legal representation in the main part?
Inbuilt prejudice of many on here is obvious - they assume the Police are only going to engage with them as potential suspects in a crime but the reality for most of the population is very very different. missing persons/children, RTA's, community policing, victim support, crime prevention, crowd control etc etc all involve interaction with the police service for many people which may well go largely unnoticed and unrecognised.
Just to be clear though, I don't deny there are bad coppers, bad leaders in the police service and poor behaviour at times, exactly the same as EVERY other industry, profession and group, without exception. Doesn't make it right, but people need balance in their thought process .
Should every other football fan now see Ipswich fans collectively as homophobic and racist because of what happened at Cambridge with posters and online racial slur against the club captain? Or should they realise that one or two bad apples shouldn't reflect on everyone else? |
What happened to the rest of the apples in the barrel after one or two went bad? | |
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:48 - Oct 19 with 564 views | PassionNotAnger |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:42 - Oct 19 by chicoazul |
Ah so we’re now telling solo women and black people and young Asian men how they should feel. All that undue disruption eh!! If they have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear!! |
Nope, not a single word I've said translates to that - I'd never tell a group of people of how they should feel - I've merely highlighted the difference between fear and concern generally and then that the vast majority of the population don't fear the police.
You have chosen to bring those two demographics of the population into this debate, for a purpose that is not obvious to me?
Your starting point seems to be that you fear or mistrust the Police in their entirety which is a very odd position that I can't reconcile with most peoples reality | | | |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:53 - Oct 19 with 549 views | PassionNotAnger |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:43 - Oct 19 by bluelagos |
There are plenty of law abiding folk who do have issues with the way the police conduct themselves. Your implication is pretty insulting tbh.
Just because you have had good interactions with them does not mean others have. In my experience the vast majority have been corrupt. The honest ones have been very few. I am pleased your experience is different but to label those who have had issues with dishonest corrupt police as somehow "deserving" of it is pretty pathetic tbh. |
Then you are either a liar or a criminal.
Just reflect - you are saying the "vast majority" of Police you have interactions with are corrupt??? That's simply not credible or believable.
Can't wait for your spell out specifically every dealing and highlight the corruption to prove that assertion | | | |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:54 - Oct 19 with 542 views | chicoazul |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:48 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
Nope, not a single word I've said translates to that - I'd never tell a group of people of how they should feel - I've merely highlighted the difference between fear and concern generally and then that the vast majority of the population don't fear the police.
You have chosen to bring those two demographics of the population into this debate, for a purpose that is not obvious to me?
Your starting point seems to be that you fear or mistrust the Police in their entirety which is a very odd position that I can't reconcile with most peoples reality |
“that doesn't and shouldn't necessarily equate into being fearful of the police”, literally translates as exactly that. I can only assume you live in some sort of bubble where the many and varied people who experience all sorts of problems with the Police simply don’t cut through to you. Probably Beccles. | |
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:54 - Oct 19 with 540 views | XYZ |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:53 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
Then you are either a liar or a criminal.
Just reflect - you are saying the "vast majority" of Police you have interactions with are corrupt??? That's simply not credible or believable.
Can't wait for your spell out specifically every dealing and highlight the corruption to prove that assertion |
Oh dear. Your prejudices have found you out. [Post edited 19 Oct 2021 14:55]
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:58 - Oct 19 with 533 views | Herbivore |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:45 - Oct 19 by TooManyCooks |
You have presented two polar opposites as the only possible conclusions to your conundrum (very TWTD). There are in fact numerous alternatives, none of which are mutually exclusive, which makes it a much trickier to determine with any degree of confidence, though I doubt that will stop people here reaching ill-founded conclusions and subsequently vigorously defending them as "the truth".
The most important aspect of all this, is whether the suggestion put forward to the OP is pertinent to this matter, or not. FYI - my suggestion is to seek legal advice immediately and to not under any circumstances speak to the Police voluntarily, or otherwise, without a Solicitor present, which by the way, is a free service provided by a duty solicitor, despite the contestation of a particular poster on this thread. |
You've got stones, I'll give you that at least. Still either clueless or deliberately misrepresenting the debate, or likely a little of both, but you've got stones. | |
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:58 - Oct 19 with 532 views | bluelagos |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:53 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
Then you are either a liar or a criminal.
Just reflect - you are saying the "vast majority" of Police you have interactions with are corrupt??? That's simply not credible or believable.
Can't wait for your spell out specifically every dealing and highlight the corruption to prove that assertion |
You chose to label me a liar or a criminal without first asking for an explanation?
Seriously? | |
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:59 - Oct 19 with 528 views | bluelagos |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:54 - Oct 19 by XYZ |
Oh dear. Your prejudices have found you out. [Post edited 19 Oct 2021 14:55]
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Spot on. | |
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 15:00 - Oct 19 with 531 views | PassionNotAnger |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:46 - Oct 19 by chicoazul |
What happened to the rest of the apples in the barrel after one or two went bad? |
You tell me? Are all Ipswich fans now suddenly going to become Homophobic or Racists, or are they going to do something about it to remove those bad apples (like Blue Action removing their bad apple from their group) and vocalise how they aren't happy with comments/actions and that they don't represent their collective views???
Bad coppers are sacked/disciplined regularly you know? | | | |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 15:00 - Oct 19 with 528 views | chicoazul |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 14:53 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
Then you are either a liar or a criminal.
Just reflect - you are saying the "vast majority" of Police you have interactions with are corrupt??? That's simply not credible or believable.
Can't wait for your spell out specifically every dealing and highlight the corruption to prove that assertion |
A liar or a criminal eh? What a piece of work you are. | |
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| Harassment allegations - advice? on 15:02 - Oct 19 with 522 views | bluelagos |
| Harassment allegations - advice? on 15:00 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
You tell me? Are all Ipswich fans now suddenly going to become Homophobic or Racists, or are they going to do something about it to remove those bad apples (like Blue Action removing their bad apple from their group) and vocalise how they aren't happy with comments/actions and that they don't represent their collective views???
Bad coppers are sacked/disciplined regularly you know? |
"Bad coppers are sacked/disciplined regularly you know? "
Not in my experience they are not. In my experience they are protected by their colleagues and left to carry on regardless. | |
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