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I've recently commenced a money claim in the Small Claims Court against a former client who has opted not to pay for my services, despite the existence of a contract etc., essentially a fairly straightforward affair, but that's by the by.
Yesterday I received a call from an officer at my local police station advising that the defendant has made a complaint of harassment against me, and we have agreed that he will visit me this evening to discuss her claims.
I do not believe that I have undertaken any conduct that constitutes harassment. I have sent the defendant three letters:
*The legally-required Letter Before Claim *A letter containing a copy of the claim form sent to HMCTS along with an offer to settle *A subsequent offer to settle (and confirmation of my intention to see the claim through) following the defendant's refusal to engage with the HMCTS-appointed arbitration service
I don't believe any of the above conduct is unreasonable in the context of an ongoing legal case, and I would suggest that the lack of unreasonableness is sufficient to meet the following defence:
That in the particular circumstance the purported action is held to be reasonable.
I guess the counter-point is that this is the first time I have been involved with the police as a suspect and, sitting on this overnight, I'm worried that it might not go as simply as I'm hoping. I know that this is simply an attempt by the defendant to try and frustrate the process and intimidate me into dropping my claim, but on the other side I know that the police tend to have a bit of a thing about harassment, especially when it's alleged to have been committed by a man against a woman.
Can anyone offer me any thoughts as to what I should expect?
Part of me is inclined to believe that the officer will try to offer me a First Harassment Warning in that it will allow him to easily tie the matter up, and I'll be let off with no real action, but given that an FHW can be disclosed by an enhanced DBS check, and (as is my understanding) I've done nothing wrong, I don't want to feel coerced into accepting this outcome. What is likely to happen if an FHW is offered and refused?
Harassment allegations - advice? on 16:09 - Oct 19 by TooManyCooks
Sorry Ryorry, I have only just seen your question.
There isn't a straightforward answer, as just about everything is dependent on situation. I think I'd start by saying that if you recorded something covertly, then they wouldn't know anyway, so why not? It's still admissible in court too, with a judges permission.
Most Police now wear Bodycams (and members of the public too, cyclists, joggers, motorbikes, cars etc etc) and in any Police interview there is high tech audio/video recording, which you are entitled to a copy of, so there's no need to record your own. However, if you requested it in an interview, your request would be declined, but if the audio equipment failed they could permit your Solicitor to record the rest of the interview on a mobile phone, if required. In reality, if the equipment failed, they'd move to another interview room, or postpone the interview.
Harassment allegations - advice? on 16:09 - Oct 19 by TooManyCooks
Sorry Ryorry, I have only just seen your question.
There isn't a straightforward answer, as just about everything is dependent on situation. I think I'd start by saying that if you recorded something covertly, then they wouldn't know anyway, so why not? It's still admissible in court too, with a judges permission.
Most Police now wear Bodycams (and members of the public too, cyclists, joggers, motorbikes, cars etc etc) and in any Police interview there is high tech audio/video recording, which you are entitled to a copy of, so there's no need to record your own. However, if you requested it in an interview, your request would be declined, but if the audio equipment failed they could permit your Solicitor to record the rest of the interview on a mobile phone, if required. In reality, if the equipment failed, they'd move to another interview room, or postpone the interview.
..."in any Police interview there is high tech audio/video recording, which you are entitled to a copy of...
if you requested it in an interview, your request would be declined" ------------------ Reads like a contradiction to me.
Just as an aside, in an IOPC interview I did a while back I insisted on recording the interview myself. They had the tapes set up but wouldn't agree to my having a copy. The investigator wasn't happy but I stood my ground and said I wouldn't do the interview unless I could record it. After some tooing and froing the IOPC agreed to that.
Ironically my recorder didn't work, but the investigator didn't know that. (which was my motive, to ensure he did things by the book)
I was being interviewed as a witness to police misconduct rather than as a suspect - no idea if that would have made any difference.
Harassment allegations - advice? on 16:32 - Oct 19 by bluelagos
..."in any Police interview there is high tech audio/video recording, which you are entitled to a copy of...
if you requested it in an interview, your request would be declined" ------------------ Reads like a contradiction to me.
Just as an aside, in an IOPC interview I did a while back I insisted on recording the interview myself. They had the tapes set up but wouldn't agree to my having a copy. The investigator wasn't happy but I stood my ground and said I wouldn't do the interview unless I could record it. After some tooing and froing the IOPC agreed to that.
Ironically my recorder didn't work, but the investigator didn't know that. (which was my motive, to ensure he did things by the book)
I was being interviewed as a witness to police misconduct rather than as a suspect - no idea if that would have made any difference.
You're right to point out the contradiction, I decided after reading to check things out from proven qualified sources!
Interesting to hear of your experience there - you'd have thought they'd realise at the outset that their refusal to let you have a copy would immediately make most people more suspicious & determined to make their own!
Harassment allegations - advice? on 15:40 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger
I posted what I believed based on what you posted (specifically that the VAST MAJORITY of police that you've come across are corrupt)- you are either lying or been engaged in criminal activities yes.
I've also, on the same comment - asked for your specific examples - ie - dealt with Police on X occasions and on Y occasions it has been proven that the Police were corrupt.
Am very interested if you'll be able to prove me incorrect or not.
And for the absolute record, I'm not, nor have I ever been a serving officer or worked for the any part of the police service or indeed the legal profession more widely. I have once been arrested many years ago and have subsequently had and witnessed both positive and negative experiences of the Police service in various situations.
I've seen plenty of good coopers and a few that behaved poorly but haven't personally every witnessed any corrupt behaviour.
It for Lagos to tell his story, but I suggest you apologise and then asking him nicely to tell you that story. You really are speaking out of ignorance right now.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Harassment allegations - advice? on 16:32 - Oct 19 by bluelagos
..."in any Police interview there is high tech audio/video recording, which you are entitled to a copy of...
if you requested it in an interview, your request would be declined" ------------------ Reads like a contradiction to me.
Just as an aside, in an IOPC interview I did a while back I insisted on recording the interview myself. They had the tapes set up but wouldn't agree to my having a copy. The investigator wasn't happy but I stood my ground and said I wouldn't do the interview unless I could record it. After some tooing and froing the IOPC agreed to that.
Ironically my recorder didn't work, but the investigator didn't know that. (which was my motive, to ensure he did things by the book)
I was being interviewed as a witness to police misconduct rather than as a suspect - no idea if that would have made any difference.
No contradiction, I was pointing out that if she requested to record the interview herself on a mobile phone etc, her request would be declined as it could interfere with the recording equipment in the room.
It is different for witnesses, than for suspects. There is no right for a witness to have a copy of their statement, audio/video, unless going to trial, and even then they would only likely be allowed to view it again on the day of trial. For obvious reasons, the CPS don't want witnesses colluding with other witnesses etc. It is accepted that it generally undermines the principal of a fair trial if the witnesses have the opportunity to study their statements 1000 times as they could be lying in the first place, but it would make it much harder to catch them out under cross examination if they were "well practiced" with their statement.
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 17:11 - Oct 19 with 1766 views
Harassment allegations - advice? on 16:46 - Oct 19 by Ryorry
You're right to point out the contradiction, I decided after reading to check things out from proven qualified sources!
Interesting to hear of your experience there - you'd have thought they'd realise at the outset that their refusal to let you have a copy would immediately make most people more suspicious & determined to make their own!
There's no contradiction, the paragraph is VERY clear, if you bother to actually read it properly.
You know, it's almost like you are asking questions randomly, attempting to find something "wrong" so you can jump all over it. If you are not actually interested in knowing the answer, please do me the courtesy of not wasting my time. If you are interested, do me the courtesy of actually reading the response before besmirching my name all over the place, it's rude.
hedgehog flavoured cucumbers
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 17:20 - Oct 19 with 1725 views
Harassment allegations - advice? on 16:46 - Oct 19 by Ryorry
You're right to point out the contradiction, I decided after reading to check things out from proven qualified sources!
Interesting to hear of your experience there - you'd have thought they'd realise at the outset that their refusal to let you have a copy would immediately make most people more suspicious & determined to make their own!
Best example I know of how partial the IOPC are (Biased towards the police) is that their lawyers tried to stop ITV showing their "Exposure" documentary of the police led cover up, in the lead up to it being shown.
They tried to stop journalists telling the story of the police cover up. Some position for an organisation supposed to be dealing with police corruption to take.
Harassment allegations - advice? on 17:11 - Oct 19 by TooManyCooks
There's no contradiction, the paragraph is VERY clear, if you bother to actually read it properly.
You know, it's almost like you are asking questions randomly, attempting to find something "wrong" so you can jump all over it. If you are not actually interested in knowing the answer, please do me the courtesy of not wasting my time. If you are interested, do me the courtesy of actually reading the response before besmirching my name all over the place, it's rude.
It's not clear at all. There's at least two of us who didn't understand your point.
I know it's got a bit tetchy on this thread but not sure there's any need for those comments at all imho.
Harassment allegations - advice? on 17:11 - Oct 19 by TooManyCooks
There's no contradiction, the paragraph is VERY clear, if you bother to actually read it properly.
You know, it's almost like you are asking questions randomly, attempting to find something "wrong" so you can jump all over it. If you are not actually interested in knowing the answer, please do me the courtesy of not wasting my time. If you are interested, do me the courtesy of actually reading the response before besmirching my name all over the place, it's rude.
"You know, it's almost like you are asking questions randomly, attempting to find something "wrong" so you can jump all over it. If you are not actually interested in knowing the answer, please do me the courtesy of not wasting my time. If you are interested, do me the courtesy of actually reading the response before besmirching my name all over the place, it's rude."
Jeezus H - wot??!! 😂
I asked one perfectly genuine question, which I wanted a knowledgeable reply to - your reply was rather confusing/contradictory (I'd read it 3 or 4 times btw), but I thanked you out of courtesy; and later said to Lagos that I'd decided to get further info from a properly verified source.
To which your response was to go on an uncontrolled outburst of rage & insults, with I imagine most people's irony meter going off the scale at your "do me the courtesy of actually reading the response before besmirching my name all over the place, it's rude". Take a look in the mirror fella, then consider taking an anger management course.
From what you’ve said, it doesn’t sound like your behaviour has amounted to harassment so I wouldn’t worry. You don’t need a solicitor. Just explain your side of the story. It seems likely that words of advice will be given (perhaps send any further correspondence to her solicitor or an agreed third party) and the job will be closed down as a civil dispute. I don’t think PINS (Police Information Notice/harassment warnings) are given anymore but it wouldn’t be disclosed on a DBS certificate anyway (automatically or manually). PINS were just given to stop unwanted contact and remove the defence that the suspect didn’t know the contact was unwanted but I think it’s meant to go straight to interview now if there’s anything in it.
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 18:34 - Oct 19 with 1583 views
Harassment allegations - advice? on 17:41 - Oct 19 by Ryorry
"You know, it's almost like you are asking questions randomly, attempting to find something "wrong" so you can jump all over it. If you are not actually interested in knowing the answer, please do me the courtesy of not wasting my time. If you are interested, do me the courtesy of actually reading the response before besmirching my name all over the place, it's rude."
Jeezus H - wot??!! 😂
I asked one perfectly genuine question, which I wanted a knowledgeable reply to - your reply was rather confusing/contradictory (I'd read it 3 or 4 times btw), but I thanked you out of courtesy; and later said to Lagos that I'd decided to get further info from a properly verified source.
To which your response was to go on an uncontrolled outburst of rage & insults, with I imagine most people's irony meter going off the scale at your "do me the courtesy of actually reading the response before besmirching my name all over the place, it's rude". Take a look in the mirror fella, then consider taking an anger management course.
I provided you with a response, which you indeed thanked me for, you then went on almost immediately to say this to another poster "You're right to point out the contradiction, I decided after reading to check things out from proven qualified sources!" which is very clearly aimed at my response to your question and is actually felt like a very personal and unpleasant attack on my good name.
If you didn't understand my response to you, or thought I had contradicted myself, why didn't you point it out at the time and seek clarification? If you were that interested, you would have done, but it seems what you really wanted to do, was find a way to have a dig at me, well done you.
Are you serious with this, or is this an attempt at humour? "your response was to go on an uncontrolled outburst of rage & insults"..........my dear little girl, you clearly haven't much life experience if my asking you, quite politely I might add considering you had jus publicly slagged me off and besmirched my name, to do me a common courtesy, is in your books, uncontrolled rage and insults, let's hope you're never called for jury duty.
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 18:35 - Oct 19 with 1580 views
Harassment allegations - advice? on 18:34 - Oct 19 by TooManyCooks
I provided you with a response, which you indeed thanked me for, you then went on almost immediately to say this to another poster "You're right to point out the contradiction, I decided after reading to check things out from proven qualified sources!" which is very clearly aimed at my response to your question and is actually felt like a very personal and unpleasant attack on my good name.
If you didn't understand my response to you, or thought I had contradicted myself, why didn't you point it out at the time and seek clarification? If you were that interested, you would have done, but it seems what you really wanted to do, was find a way to have a dig at me, well done you.
Are you serious with this, or is this an attempt at humour? "your response was to go on an uncontrolled outburst of rage & insults"..........my dear little girl, you clearly haven't much life experience if my asking you, quite politely I might add considering you had jus publicly slagged me off and besmirched my name, to do me a common courtesy, is in your books, uncontrolled rage and insults, let's hope you're never called for jury duty.
Now on the ignore list, ta ta
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 18:43 - Oct 19 with 1545 views
Harassment allegations - advice? on 18:34 - Oct 19 by TooManyCooks
I provided you with a response, which you indeed thanked me for, you then went on almost immediately to say this to another poster "You're right to point out the contradiction, I decided after reading to check things out from proven qualified sources!" which is very clearly aimed at my response to your question and is actually felt like a very personal and unpleasant attack on my good name.
If you didn't understand my response to you, or thought I had contradicted myself, why didn't you point it out at the time and seek clarification? If you were that interested, you would have done, but it seems what you really wanted to do, was find a way to have a dig at me, well done you.
Are you serious with this, or is this an attempt at humour? "your response was to go on an uncontrolled outburst of rage & insults"..........my dear little girl, you clearly haven't much life experience if my asking you, quite politely I might add considering you had jus publicly slagged me off and besmirched my name, to do me a common courtesy, is in your books, uncontrolled rage and insults, let's hope you're never called for jury duty.
You really are behaving extraordinarily here.
When I thanked you, I was simply being tactful in not mentioning that there were aspects of what you'd said which just didn't sound right or add up (including, btw, your saying there was no harm in doing a covert recording on the assumption it wouldn't be found). Ironically, I didn't want to hurt your feelings, as you'd obviously tried to be helpful, so I left my reservations out of that post.
You didn't say you were a qualified lawyer, nor would one have written any advice as you did. No thinking person would accept what you said without getting it checked out, and I simply confirmed to Lagos that's what I'd be doing.
You've not just turned a molehill into a mountain here, you've turned a tiny pea into Mount Everest. As for "a very personal and unpleasant attack on my good name" and "what you really wanted to do, was find a way to have a dig at me" - well, sorry to disappoint you, but I've never even noticed you before today, and had no idea that there was anyone in the UK whose real name was "TooManyCooks".
You, on the other hand, without any justification whatsoever, have certainly posted "a very personal and unpleasant attack" on me and found a "way to have a dig at me", not to mention the pathetic abuse of "my dear little girl". So if it's me that you've put on ignore, tfft
Harassment allegations - advice? on 18:52 - Oct 19 by ZXBlue
Suggestive of a sock puppet account?
Don't think so amongst current members. There's only been one poster on here who I've ever seen going from 0-60 in 10 secs of frothing rage like that tho.
I’m a bit late to this but I’ll add my voice to those saying that on the face of it, nothing wrong with what the OP has done whatsoever. I’d be happy justifying what are completely legal actions without a solicitor representing me. All in the detail though, so any number of additional facts could change my view.
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 04:44 - Oct 20 with 1320 views
Harassment allegations - advice? on 04:44 - Oct 20 by dickie
How did it go with the popo?
Spoke with the investigating officer yesterday afternoon, and agreed to rearrange to next week at the local police station with the duty solicitor in attendance.
As others have pointed out (and I originally neglected to consider) there's no guarantee that she's kept to the facts and hasn't decided to sex up her version of events, so it's best to go in fully protected just in case.
Harassment allegations - advice? on 18:34 - Oct 19 by TooManyCooks
I provided you with a response, which you indeed thanked me for, you then went on almost immediately to say this to another poster "You're right to point out the contradiction, I decided after reading to check things out from proven qualified sources!" which is very clearly aimed at my response to your question and is actually felt like a very personal and unpleasant attack on my good name.
If you didn't understand my response to you, or thought I had contradicted myself, why didn't you point it out at the time and seek clarification? If you were that interested, you would have done, but it seems what you really wanted to do, was find a way to have a dig at me, well done you.
Are you serious with this, or is this an attempt at humour? "your response was to go on an uncontrolled outburst of rage & insults"..........my dear little girl, you clearly haven't much life experience if my asking you, quite politely I might add considering you had jus publicly slagged me off and besmirched my name, to do me a common courtesy, is in your books, uncontrolled rage and insults, let's hope you're never called for jury duty.
Harassment allegations - advice? on 08:45 - Oct 20 by Zx1988
Spoke with the investigating officer yesterday afternoon, and agreed to rearrange to next week at the local police station with the duty solicitor in attendance.
As others have pointed out (and I originally neglected to consider) there's no guarantee that she's kept to the facts and hasn't decided to sex up her version of events, so it's best to go in fully protected just in case.
So you’re (presumably) not being interviewed under caution but the duty solicitor can be there after all. Interesting. Good luck with it.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Harassment allegations - advice? on 08:55 - Oct 20 by chicoazul
So you’re (presumably) not being interviewed under caution but the duty solicitor can be there after all. Interesting. Good luck with it.
It will very likely be a Caution3 interview, aka an interview under caution.
He's entitled to free representation whether a Caution3, or not. If he wasn't entitled to representation at this stage (we don't know whether the interview will take place as a Caution3, or not, so at the moment it is a voluntary interview) then the duty solicitor could not be instructed, facts.
[Post edited 20 Oct 2021 9:29]
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 12:04 - Jan 5 with 909 views
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