| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! 09:41 - Oct 28 with 1534 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/28/third-of-chinese-developers-could-
...also, what madness is this...
"There were also intriguing reports this week that Xu Jiayin, the billionaire founder of Evergrande and once China’s richest man, had been told by the authorities to dip into his pocket to repay the company’s debts himself."
....just imagine if this approach was used on shareholders more generally to recoup extracted wealth rather than bail outs, madness! |  |
| |  |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 09:57 - Oct 28 with 1180 views | chicoazul |
Friends in the City are very worried about this. And they never worry about anything. |  |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:07 - Oct 28 with 1145 views | Coastalblue |
Reminds me a little of when the Lloyds 'names' suddenly found that the money didn't just flow one way, what was that, early 90's? |  |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:12 - Oct 28 with 1126 views | Guthrum |
While the collapse of a bad financial system might seem a thing to be welcomed, the misery and hardship that brings - to ordinary people - is not to be taken lightly. 1929 led to the Great Depression, 2008 to Austerity.
Also worth bearing in mind that "shareholders" includes not just the wealthy, but also pension companies, local authorities and so on. Institutions whose losses would hurt us, too. |  |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:21 - Oct 28 with 1096 views | nodge_blue |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:12 - Oct 28 by Guthrum |
While the collapse of a bad financial system might seem a thing to be welcomed, the misery and hardship that brings - to ordinary people - is not to be taken lightly. 1929 led to the Great Depression, 2008 to Austerity.
Also worth bearing in mind that "shareholders" includes not just the wealthy, but also pension companies, local authorities and so on. Institutions whose losses would hurt us, too. |
And by an extension of pension companies read pension holders. Which is now the majority of the country that have a company pension - which invests in shares.
Its in no ones interests to see companies fail or shareholders punished as we all rely on those companies to have any sort of decent retirement.
Having said all that every company has a duty to run themselves properly. Sadly as with the banks, some ridiculous things happen. I do agree that the state cant prop up every badly run company. The banks probably had to be bailed out but it did stink. But even there the greed wasn't just with the banks selling risky loans bonds as AAA value - it was with the people taking out house loans when they didnt have the jobs to support them - but they wanted ti get rich by letting out real estate in America. |  |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:21 - Oct 28 with 1092 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 09:57 - Oct 28 by chicoazul |
Friends in the City are very worried about this. And they never worry about anything. |
Yippee!! | |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:23 - Oct 28 with 1092 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:12 - Oct 28 by Guthrum |
While the collapse of a bad financial system might seem a thing to be welcomed, the misery and hardship that brings - to ordinary people - is not to be taken lightly. 1929 led to the Great Depression, 2008 to Austerity.
Also worth bearing in mind that "shareholders" includes not just the wealthy, but also pension companies, local authorities and so on. Institutions whose losses would hurt us, too. |
What's a pension?
I have long since given up on a managed reordering of society so bring on the disorderly version....far from ideal but there you have it. | |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:26 - Oct 28 with 1075 views | nodge_blue |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:23 - Oct 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
What's a pension?
I have long since given up on a managed reordering of society so bring on the disorderly version....far from ideal but there you have it. |
This has all the potential of a 10 pager. Good work!
At least we are spending the American pension funds to see us play better football. | |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:26 - Oct 28 with 1074 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:21 - Oct 28 by nodge_blue |
And by an extension of pension companies read pension holders. Which is now the majority of the country that have a company pension - which invests in shares.
Its in no ones interests to see companies fail or shareholders punished as we all rely on those companies to have any sort of decent retirement.
Having said all that every company has a duty to run themselves properly. Sadly as with the banks, some ridiculous things happen. I do agree that the state cant prop up every badly run company. The banks probably had to be bailed out but it did stink. But even there the greed wasn't just with the banks selling risky loans bonds as AAA value - it was with the people taking out house loans when they didnt have the jobs to support them - but they wanted ti get rich by letting out real estate in America. |
Sorry but that just reads of 'how to get the plebs to buy into the madness' / Stockholm syndrome. See also property prices. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:32 - Oct 28 with 1059 views | nodge_blue |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:26 - Oct 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Sorry but that just reads of 'how to get the plebs to buy into the madness' / Stockholm syndrome. See also property prices. |
Have you seen The Big Short - possibly on Netflix? | |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:33 - Oct 28 with 1052 views | giant_stow |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:23 - Oct 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
What's a pension?
I have long since given up on a managed reordering of society so bring on the disorderly version....far from ideal but there you have it. |
I've got some sympathy with what you're saying, but I think you gloss over the mayhem and suffering that such a collapse would cause to ordinary people a bit too easily. . |  |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:33 - Oct 28 with 1050 views | Guthrum |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:23 - Oct 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
What's a pension?
I have long since given up on a managed reordering of society so bring on the disorderly version....far from ideal but there you have it. |
A lot of elderly people rely on them. I don't really want to see the return of workhouses, where poor couples were split up and sent to die.
I gave up on the disordely version of reform - it generally leads to chaos, hardship, starvation, terror, war and often ends in dictatorship. I tend to think we've done much better through activism and parliamentary methods, in expanding the vote, reforming the workplace, prisons, etc., building a welfare state and so on. Takes rather longer, but fewer innocent people are killed. | |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:38 - Oct 28 with 1038 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:12 - Oct 28 by Guthrum |
While the collapse of a bad financial system might seem a thing to be welcomed, the misery and hardship that brings - to ordinary people - is not to be taken lightly. 1929 led to the Great Depression, 2008 to Austerity.
Also worth bearing in mind that "shareholders" includes not just the wealthy, but also pension companies, local authorities and so on. Institutions whose losses would hurt us, too. |
Indeed. There is much wrong with capitalism as it currently exists but we rely on it far more than we realise.
It is noteworthy in the current Government sewage legislation controversy that they claim the costs to prevent release of raw sewage are colossal. However, they equate with the payments that private utility companies have been paying shareholders. If these were well-run public companies, the money could have already been spent preventing it. |  |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:40 - Oct 28 with 1022 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:32 - Oct 28 by nodge_blue |
Have you seen The Big Short - possibly on Netflix? |
Yep....what a mess. | |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:46 - Oct 28 with 1006 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:33 - Oct 28 by Guthrum |
A lot of elderly people rely on them. I don't really want to see the return of workhouses, where poor couples were split up and sent to die.
I gave up on the disordely version of reform - it generally leads to chaos, hardship, starvation, terror, war and often ends in dictatorship. I tend to think we've done much better through activism and parliamentary methods, in expanding the vote, reforming the workplace, prisons, etc., building a welfare state and so on. Takes rather longer, but fewer innocent people are killed. |
Best you form a local @narchosyndicalist group then to manage the chaos and directly shape the required change! The 2 choices you describe are not the only possible outcomes.
....No gods, no masters, no leaders..... | |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:47 - Oct 28 with 1000 views | nodge_blue |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:40 - Oct 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Yep....what a mess. |
When you see that I think its hard not to say that the greed ran through everyone.
From the people wanting to buy houses to rent out that they couldn't afford, to the estate agents wanting to sell houses to anyone with a pulse, to local mortgage advisers wanting to sell loans to anyone regardless and then into the banks who didnt vet the mortgagee at all.
In some respects the banks were completely unaware what the hell was going on. they just packaged up all the loans and sold them on to each other.
But they could have stopped it at source by insisting that on seeing proof of the ability for the mortgagee to pay the mortgage. Seems such a basic thing. | |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:51 - Oct 28 with 978 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:47 - Oct 28 by nodge_blue |
When you see that I think its hard not to say that the greed ran through everyone.
From the people wanting to buy houses to rent out that they couldn't afford, to the estate agents wanting to sell houses to anyone with a pulse, to local mortgage advisers wanting to sell loans to anyone regardless and then into the banks who didnt vet the mortgagee at all.
In some respects the banks were completely unaware what the hell was going on. they just packaged up all the loans and sold them on to each other.
But they could have stopped it at source by insisting that on seeing proof of the ability for the mortgagee to pay the mortgage. Seems such a basic thing. |
Totally agree, the greed and short term notion of self interest has become all pervasive post Thatcher/Reagan as reflected in the disintegration of community/society.....hence my use of the Stockholm syndrome analogy. In the long term we all lose. | |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:51 - Oct 28 with 981 views | Darth_Koont |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:12 - Oct 28 by Guthrum |
While the collapse of a bad financial system might seem a thing to be welcomed, the misery and hardship that brings - to ordinary people - is not to be taken lightly. 1929 led to the Great Depression, 2008 to Austerity.
Also worth bearing in mind that "shareholders" includes not just the wealthy, but also pension companies, local authorities and so on. Institutions whose losses would hurt us, too. |
Indeed. Collapsing companies are rarely a good thing for the man in the street.
Having said that, the “business as usual” running of these companies and the financial system isn’t anything like as good for the man in the street or their employees as it could be either. The bonuses, shares and remuneration for top execs, brokers and fund managers puts billions of shareholder/pension value in the pockets of a small group of people.
I mean that’s tantamount to legalised embezzlement. |  |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:52 - Oct 28 with 973 views | Guthrum |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:46 - Oct 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Best you form a local @narchosyndicalist group then to manage the chaos and directly shape the required change! The 2 choices you describe are not the only possible outcomes.
....No gods, no masters, no leaders..... |
But they are the most likely ones. Even the Spanish anarchists were crushed by Stalin (despite theoretically being on the same side). | |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:52 - Oct 28 with 971 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:51 - Oct 28 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed. Collapsing companies are rarely a good thing for the man in the street.
Having said that, the “business as usual” running of these companies and the financial system isn’t anything like as good for the man in the street or their employees as it could be either. The bonuses, shares and remuneration for top execs, brokers and fund managers puts billions of shareholder/pension value in the pockets of a small group of people.
I mean that’s tantamount to legalised embezzlement. |
Our entire history is shaped by it. | |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:55 - Oct 28 with 963 views | Guthrum |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:51 - Oct 28 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed. Collapsing companies are rarely a good thing for the man in the street.
Having said that, the “business as usual” running of these companies and the financial system isn’t anything like as good for the man in the street or their employees as it could be either. The bonuses, shares and remuneration for top execs, brokers and fund managers puts billions of shareholder/pension value in the pockets of a small group of people.
I mean that’s tantamount to legalised embezzlement. |
Indeed. Reform and regulation is needed. | |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 11:07 - Oct 28 with 935 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:52 - Oct 28 by Guthrum |
But they are the most likely ones. Even the Spanish anarchists were crushed by Stalin (despite theoretically being on the same side). |
Tell me about it.....bloody statists! | |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 12:23 - Oct 28 with 834 views | Bluedicea |
China like many countries is suffering from housing problems. Whereas most countries don't have enough, China has too many, with 65 million properties currently unoccupied and waiting to be sold. Their building philosophy seems to be, build a new city and it will eventually be filled, which lead to the condemnation of them having ghost cities completely empty taking a couple of decades to sell all the property. Some of the massive cities built in the late 80's, early 90's are still only 75% occupied. |  |
| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 12:25 - Oct 28 with 831 views | nodge_blue |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 10:51 - Oct 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Totally agree, the greed and short term notion of self interest has become all pervasive post Thatcher/Reagan as reflected in the disintegration of community/society.....hence my use of the Stockholm syndrome analogy. In the long term we all lose. |
We do.
The Mandibles is a good novel if you want to read about how a potential financial collapse could play out. | |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 14:51 - Oct 28 with 758 views | factual_blue |
I recall a journalist/commentator/economist once pointing out that the risk & reward balance was all wrong in the finance industry. There are six figure bonuses for 'doing well' (as any psychologist or HR professional will tell you, bonus systems encourage sub-optimal behaviour).
There argument was the penalty for failure should be correspondingly life-changing and dramatic. Failure should be met with execution of one of your family. |  |
| |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 16:36 - Oct 28 with 668 views | Bent_double |
| Evergrande, possible contagion....here's hoping! on 12:23 - Oct 28 by Bluedicea |
China like many countries is suffering from housing problems. Whereas most countries don't have enough, China has too many, with 65 million properties currently unoccupied and waiting to be sold. Their building philosophy seems to be, build a new city and it will eventually be filled, which lead to the condemnation of them having ghost cities completely empty taking a couple of decades to sell all the property. Some of the massive cities built in the late 80's, early 90's are still only 75% occupied. |
Have we stumbled upon a solution to our own housing crisis and overpopulation on this little island? Ship a few hundred thousand Brits out to China to live and work...problem solved. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
