| Can you actually buy ethical milk 15:38 - Feb 16 with 6416 views | gtsb1966 |
I don't want milk substitutes but the proper stuff. I found this quite abhorrent. The removal of the calves is horrible. I would be grateful if someone could tell me where I can buy the stuff. Thanks. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-60394156 |  | | |  |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 21:13 - Feb 16 with 1081 views | chicoazul |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 20:47 - Feb 16 by eireblue |
Lazy as well, don’t forget that. |
No I’m not lazy, I cook all the time. |  |
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 21:22 - Feb 16 with 1054 views | eireblue |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 21:06 - Feb 16 by WeWereZombies |
You have provided data, that is true. But I cannot see that data, which is a projection, actually coming about with, as you state later, disruption. My general feeling about disruption is that it is unhelpful, better work with nature than against it. And people in cities can buy local, and grow their own, which is the gradual change I would hope to see...the pandemic should have taught us a bit about socially distancing ourselves to stay safe, it is probably not the last pandemic so better to have more green space in cities to ride out the next one more comfortably than we have COVID-19 (which Dr. Jane Goodall asserts arose from having animals in too close proximity to humans at time of slaughter and for food preparation, another example she gives is how when a population is faced with food shortages they resort to bush meat - leaving a race exposed to the perils of war and climate driven migration increases the incidence of a particular landscape being ravaged by a sudden influx, as happened in Gombe. And that was repaired by local action.)
Actually things are far from okay on Skye, the relentless rain this autumn and winter feels like that projection of the clouds closing in and turning Earth into a Venus like hothouse planet. But the crofters are happy, they got the best prices ever for sheep this year, demand is higher than ever. So I have no easy task pushing the 'English Pastoral' (James Rebanks https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/290/290329/english-pastoral/9780141982571.html#: ) vision but I have got a local farmer to borrow it of me, still I haven't given myself an easy task and adding in a vegan slant to things would really not help, not at all.
So balance is my keyword, and it is a self adjusting mechanism rather than a command position, those always fail at some point. |
Interestingly, there was a chap on the radio taking about the best way for humans to live, in terms of climate change, is more compact, not more greener spaces.
But something you have to consider, surely, is the effect.
Wouldn’t it be nice if humans spread out more, changed their cities, and grew more stuff themselves.
Of course.
Isn’t that almost equally a bigger change than going vegan? Changing the layout of cities.
Also, people , generally, can’t raise their own cows.
But if a cow can be raised locally, maybe, so to can, plants.
You don’t have to convert or push a slant on anyone, you can just choose to vegan yourself, you don’t even have to be an advocate.
But thanks for the book recommendation, will give it a go.
Sorry, that reply was a bit bullet pointy, a bit tired now. |  | | |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 21:27 - Feb 16 with 1043 views | J2BLUE |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 19:16 - Feb 16 by BlueNote |
Drinking oat milk is better for you, the animals and the environment, but Alpro is owned by Danone, which is not an ethical company. Out of the mainstream brands, Oatly is far more ethical, but more expensive. You would hope the price of plant milks will reduce as they become more popular. |
I will have a look into that, thank you.
The main thing I like about that is that it isn't sweetened. You can find various supermarket brands of unsweetened oat milk as well so any of those are good if anyone is interested in trying it. |  |
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 21:30 - Feb 16 with 1034 views | eireblue |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 21:13 - Feb 16 by chicoazul |
No I’m not lazy, I cook all the time. |
Nope, vegans cook all the time as well.
Bad and lazy. Just make peace with it. | | | |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 21:42 - Feb 16 with 1016 views | WeWereZombies |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 21:22 - Feb 16 by eireblue |
Interestingly, there was a chap on the radio taking about the best way for humans to live, in terms of climate change, is more compact, not more greener spaces.
But something you have to consider, surely, is the effect.
Wouldn’t it be nice if humans spread out more, changed their cities, and grew more stuff themselves.
Of course.
Isn’t that almost equally a bigger change than going vegan? Changing the layout of cities.
Also, people , generally, can’t raise their own cows.
But if a cow can be raised locally, maybe, so to can, plants.
You don’t have to convert or push a slant on anyone, you can just choose to vegan yourself, you don’t even have to be an advocate.
But thanks for the book recommendation, will give it a go.
Sorry, that reply was a bit bullet pointy, a bit tired now. |
Yep, I'm tired too. But I don't like the idea of living compact, I need my green space. So I am very doubtful of a voice on the radio trying to assure me of eudaimonia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia ) via piling up on ourselves. I don't see how you can build up life skills without a garden to grow things in, or be happy without birdsong and flowers. That being said, at 66 I am finding an acre and a third a bit much. I wouldn't mind moving to somewhere with just six rooms and a quarter of an acre, that would be manageable. Proximity to bus and train lines would be good too, a sports centre and an art gallery nearby, a decent pub...and a family run dairy farm with some free range poultry too. |  |
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 21:53 - Feb 16 with 1000 views | Edmundo |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 16:08 - Feb 16 by WeWereZombies |
As the animal rights spokesperson says at the end of the clip, we should be paying more for our milk. If we can find and afford milk from a decent local dairy farm.
Also, think twice before switching to substitutes for milk. This is from 'Spoon Fed' by Prof. Tim Spector, pages 160/61 of the 2022 Vintage edition:
'Clever marketing campaigns, such as the 2019 Oatly advert 'It's like milk, but made for humans', are persuading customers into following dairy-free diets, with vegan milk sales growing by 30 per cent over the past three years. The cosy relationship between the 'free-from' baby-milk industry and paedriatric doctors is making it worse. Between 2006 and 2016, prescriptions of specialist milks for infants with cow's milk allergy increased by 500 percent, despite no evidence showing any increase in real milk allergy. This over-diagnosis of cow's milk allergy is potentially harmful to mothers and babies, and confuses women on the clear health benefits associated with breastfeeding where allergy is non-existent.' |
There should be breastfeeding nurses in every maternity ward: the alternative is just a big business con. There are very few legitimate reasons not to breastfeed, and it's insisted on at our local NICU. If mum can't, it's donated. |  |
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 22:01 - Feb 16 with 989 views | chicoazul |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 21:30 - Feb 16 by eireblue |
Nope, vegans cook all the time as well.
Bad and lazy. Just make peace with it. |
I’m very happy. Don’t worry, like I keep telling you.
Also, what you said doesn’t make any sense. I cook; vegans cook. What? [Post edited 16 Feb 2022 22:04]
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 23:32 - Feb 16 with 972 views | Ryorry |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 20:46 - Feb 16 by eireblue |
Yea, didn’t spot that reference.
Now, I appreciate the effort you have put in, so far.
But, local doesn’t work for the world. People in cities, can’t do local.
As I said there are many different scientific things you could read, that also have nuance, including, studying things like soil health (Hi Ryorry), as part of being food secure.
Your rationale, also includes extrapolations, that innovation won’t happen, and that “Big” companies will dominate.
Humans can be innovative and disruptive.
You asked me to provide data. I have. To what end?
Did you just want to tell people that you are okay on your island. And defer to Dr Jane Goodalll, since it matches your circumstances.
Or as a sceptical person, will you look into other studies, and think about what is the best way that humans can reduce harm to the planet, and how easy it can be to personally act.? |
Hi Eire 
Thanks for the mention, am enjoying the read but too cream-crackered to "participate" except to add that the hopelessly simplistic old adages "moderation in all things" and "balanced approach" served the human race very well in terms of what we put in/took out of the planet - until we discovered fossil fuels. [Post edited 16 Feb 2022 23:34]
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 09:36 - Feb 17 with 906 views | eireblue |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 22:01 - Feb 16 by chicoazul |
I’m very happy. Don’t worry, like I keep telling you.
Also, what you said doesn’t make any sense. I cook; vegans cook. What? [Post edited 16 Feb 2022 22:04]
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It is quite simple.
You said you accepted that being vegan was morally and ethically the correct thing.
Your defence of not being lazy, was I cook.
There is no real difference in effort between a vegan cooking and a meat eater cooking.
What you lack is taking a step to be avegan. It is easy to say look I accept there is an ethical thing to do, but, ahh I am bad what can I do. Anyone can say something is ethical, anyone can say, ahh look I am bad.
To me that is just being lazy. | | | |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 10:37 - Feb 17 with 869 views | JammyDodgerrr |
I don't think you'll find that it is hard as you think to switch to Oat Milk or another alternative. I've switched the start of this year and the first week was hard but now I can't go back, because not only am I used to it, it adds more flavour and i much prefer it.
I recommend Minor Figures Oat Milk - good company and available in bulk on Amazon, usually cheaper than a supermarket. |  |
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 11:12 - Feb 17 with 859 views | Ryorry |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 10:37 - Feb 17 by JammyDodgerrr |
I don't think you'll find that it is hard as you think to switch to Oat Milk or another alternative. I've switched the start of this year and the first week was hard but now I can't go back, because not only am I used to it, it adds more flavour and i much prefer it.
I recommend Minor Figures Oat Milk - good company and available in bulk on Amazon, usually cheaper than a supermarket. |
Thanks for the recommend for one I didn't know, will have a look at that.
Have tried most of the others & found them pretty unpleasant, not least because (as J2 said) so many are sweetened. Found the Plenish outright disgusting, full of lumps despite some Olympic level carton shaking. | |
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 11:18 - Feb 17 with 833 views | eireblue |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 11:12 - Feb 17 by Ryorry |
Thanks for the recommend for one I didn't know, will have a look at that.
Have tried most of the others & found them pretty unpleasant, not least because (as J2 said) so many are sweetened. Found the Plenish outright disgusting, full of lumps despite some Olympic level carton shaking. |
Hmmmm, carton shaking vs sliding stones on ice. The Olympics were originally about practical things, I think you should persue that idea Rrorry. | | | |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 11:30 - Feb 17 with 813 views | Ryorry |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 11:18 - Feb 17 by eireblue |
Hmmmm, carton shaking vs sliding stones on ice. The Olympics were originally about practical things, I think you should persue that idea Rrorry. |
Could be a whole new thread - ideas for Olympics of the climate-change & Covid era -
Mask-wearing endurance
Elbow-bump Judo
Vegan sausage-stringing (length of, and endurance skipping with)
Pistachio nut shelling
etc. | |
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 11:47 - Feb 17 with 806 views | chicoazul |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 09:36 - Feb 17 by eireblue |
It is quite simple.
You said you accepted that being vegan was morally and ethically the correct thing.
Your defence of not being lazy, was I cook.
There is no real difference in effort between a vegan cooking and a meat eater cooking.
What you lack is taking a step to be avegan. It is easy to say look I accept there is an ethical thing to do, but, ahh I am bad what can I do. Anyone can say something is ethical, anyone can say, ahh look I am bad.
To me that is just being lazy. |
This is very dumb thinking. I cook all the time so I’m not lazy. I am making a choice to not be vegan not out of laziness but because I don’t want to as I thought I explained in the first post. I am perfectly happy with that making me a bad person. Plus if it annoys you and people like you, to the point of dishing out the usual eireblue TWTD lecture, that’s an added bonus. | |
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:10 - Feb 17 with 785 views | Ryorry |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 11:47 - Feb 17 by chicoazul |
This is very dumb thinking. I cook all the time so I’m not lazy. I am making a choice to not be vegan not out of laziness but because I don’t want to as I thought I explained in the first post. I am perfectly happy with that making me a bad person. Plus if it annoys you and people like you, to the point of dishing out the usual eireblue TWTD lecture, that’s an added bonus. |
Do you think you'd be more inclined towards veganism if you just got interest-piquing hints of it, rather than full-frontal finger-wagging from those already signed up?
Genuinely curious about this, not just re veganism but a range of other things too, eg mask-wearing & vaccs. My instinct is that people tend to respond more to carrots than sticks, but obvs. I could be wrong. | |
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:22 - Feb 17 with 779 views | eireblue |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 11:47 - Feb 17 by chicoazul |
This is very dumb thinking. I cook all the time so I’m not lazy. I am making a choice to not be vegan not out of laziness but because I don’t want to as I thought I explained in the first post. I am perfectly happy with that making me a bad person. Plus if it annoys you and people like you, to the point of dishing out the usual eireblue TWTD lecture, that’s an added bonus. |
You asked a question. I replied.
I don’t want to = lazy.
It doesn’t annoy me. My partner isn’t a vegan, most people I know aren’t vegan.
It doesn’t annoy me at all.
It does have an impact on animals and the planet though.
Bit like littering really, people can know that it is correct to not litter, but when you have some rubbish and you chose to drop it on the ground, rather than make the effort to find a bin, it makes you bad and lazy.
It is an opinion Chico, I am allowed to express it. | | | |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:27 - Feb 17 with 776 views | JammyDodgerrr |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 11:12 - Feb 17 by Ryorry |
Thanks for the recommend for one I didn't know, will have a look at that.
Have tried most of the others & found them pretty unpleasant, not least because (as J2 said) so many are sweetened. Found the Plenish outright disgusting, full of lumps despite some Olympic level carton shaking. |
The thing i've learnt with Oat Milk is always always always buy the Barista version. I don't know why but quite often the other versions can be quite terrible. The barista ones i've tried are great. Another one is the Califia farms barista oat. Really like that one too. Never had the lump issue with the barista ones but have certainly with other styles. | |
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:34 - Feb 17 with 767 views | Ryorry |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:27 - Feb 17 by JammyDodgerrr |
The thing i've learnt with Oat Milk is always always always buy the Barista version. I don't know why but quite often the other versions can be quite terrible. The barista ones i've tried are great. Another one is the Califia farms barista oat. Really like that one too. Never had the lump issue with the barista ones but have certainly with other styles. |
Tbh, I found the one barista version I've tried worse than the others, sorry! Might give others a go tho.
Interesting re Califia Farms however, I love & buy loads of their Mocha Noir with almonds & chocolate. The big issue with those are the cartons - brown plastic 😱 - so I do wrestle with my conscience on them. Will have a look at their oat ones tho, ta. | |
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:34 - Feb 17 with 765 views | chicoazul |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:22 - Feb 17 by eireblue |
You asked a question. I replied.
I don’t want to = lazy.
It doesn’t annoy me. My partner isn’t a vegan, most people I know aren’t vegan.
It doesn’t annoy me at all.
It does have an impact on animals and the planet though.
Bit like littering really, people can know that it is correct to not litter, but when you have some rubbish and you chose to drop it on the ground, rather than make the effort to find a bin, it makes you bad and lazy.
It is an opinion Chico, I am allowed to express it. |
I don’t want to doesn’t equal lazy. I don’t want to murder people, doesn’t mean I’m too lazy to do so. Dumb thinking again. Nobody said you’re not allowed to express your opinion, this is a cry baby tactic usually employed by the very dense in here. | |
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:36 - Feb 17 with 761 views | JammyDodgerrr |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:34 - Feb 17 by Ryorry |
Tbh, I found the one barista version I've tried worse than the others, sorry! Might give others a go tho.
Interesting re Califia Farms however, I love & buy loads of their Mocha Noir with almonds & chocolate. The big issue with those are the cartons - brown plastic 😱 - so I do wrestle with my conscience on them. Will have a look at their oat ones tho, ta. |
As far as i was aware they are now recyclable completely, but may have got that wrong. I would stick with Minor Figures as a first choice anyway, it is the nicer of the two IMO. | |
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:39 - Feb 17 with 758 views | chicoazul |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:10 - Feb 17 by Ryorry |
Do you think you'd be more inclined towards veganism if you just got interest-piquing hints of it, rather than full-frontal finger-wagging from those already signed up?
Genuinely curious about this, not just re veganism but a range of other things too, eg mask-wearing & vaccs. My instinct is that people tend to respond more to carrots than sticks, but obvs. I could be wrong. |
I think in general you’re right in your last line but as I’ve said, I already decided veganism is the right thing to do. I just don’t want to. I’ll happily explain why I don’t want to if anyone cares to ask, despite eireblue already labelling me “lazy” in a very bizarre leap. Sadly some people just can’t help themselves.
It’s much easier to make pasta with olive oil and steamed vegetables than duck confit believe you me. | |
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:49 - Feb 17 with 742 views | eireblue |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:34 - Feb 17 by chicoazul |
I don’t want to doesn’t equal lazy. I don’t want to murder people, doesn’t mean I’m too lazy to do so. Dumb thinking again. Nobody said you’re not allowed to express your opinion, this is a cry baby tactic usually employed by the very dense in here. |
Murdering people isn’t something that is ethical and morally correct, I think I am correct on that.
That is what you stated isn’t it “.. morally and ethically a vegan diet is absolutely the right thing to do”
So why are you using murder in your analogy about something that is “.. absolutely the right thing to do”
Surely my littering thing was better. Or to use a debating technique I picked up from you, are you saying murdering people is equivalent to something that is morally and ethically and absolutely the right thing to do? | | | |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:50 - Feb 17 with 738 views | J2BLUE |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:22 - Feb 17 by eireblue |
You asked a question. I replied.
I don’t want to = lazy.
It doesn’t annoy me. My partner isn’t a vegan, most people I know aren’t vegan.
It doesn’t annoy me at all.
It does have an impact on animals and the planet though.
Bit like littering really, people can know that it is correct to not litter, but when you have some rubbish and you chose to drop it on the ground, rather than make the effort to find a bin, it makes you bad and lazy.
It is an opinion Chico, I am allowed to express it. |
I find the hardest hitting reasoning to pick plants over animal products is the amount of water required. The amount of water to create one pound of beef is shocking. I know this is usually where people reply about almonds etc but I don't really buy those. Or avocados. | |
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:56 - Feb 17 with 734 views | chicoazul |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:49 - Feb 17 by eireblue |
Murdering people isn’t something that is ethical and morally correct, I think I am correct on that.
That is what you stated isn’t it “.. morally and ethically a vegan diet is absolutely the right thing to do”
So why are you using murder in your analogy about something that is “.. absolutely the right thing to do”
Surely my littering thing was better. Or to use a debating technique I picked up from you, are you saying murdering people is equivalent to something that is morally and ethically and absolutely the right thing to do? |
I don’t want to doesn’t equal lazy. Dumb thinking. You’re free to think that’s laziness. It isn’t, as I’ve explained elsewhere it’s more effort to cook meat then vegan in many ways. It’s not laziness that prevents me from being vegan. Would you like to know what it is? | |
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| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:59 - Feb 17 with 730 views | monytowbray |
| Can you actually buy ethical milk on 12:56 - Feb 17 by chicoazul |
I don’t want to doesn’t equal lazy. Dumb thinking. You’re free to think that’s laziness. It isn’t, as I’ve explained elsewhere it’s more effort to cook meat then vegan in many ways. It’s not laziness that prevents me from being vegan. Would you like to know what it is? |
Go on, this should be funny… |  |
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