| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere 12:01 - Apr 6 with 3689 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
Can't we just pluck some more from the Magic Money Tree rather than tax the poor? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 08:31 - Apr 7 with 1171 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 08:28 - Apr 7 by You_Bloo_Right |
Whilst I understand the point you're driving at I'm not sure that's a reasonable comparison.
Would this "other" government have proved to be as financially incompetent (and corrupt) as this one?
Would it have continued with the vanity HS2 project?
Would it have a policy of privatisation of the NHS by deliberate under-funding?
Would there have already been some attempt to rebalance the whole taxation system?
Would there have been any attempt to reassess spending priorities?
I like to think that it would be a big assumption to say that the answers to the above are "yes, yes, yes, no and no".
Accordingly we cannot "forget" it's the Tories; the evidence of the last few years has taught us to look for the malice in everything they do. |
I think Dub has covered this. The Johnson/Tory government is a sh1t show. This 1.25% increase to spend on social care and get waiting lists down after a pandemic is necessary.
The two aren’t mutually exclusive. |  |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 08:47 - Apr 7 with 1156 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 08:31 - Apr 7 by GlasgowBlue |
I think Dub has covered this. The Johnson/Tory government is a sh1t show. This 1.25% increase to spend on social care and get waiting lists down after a pandemic is necessary.
The two aren’t mutually exclusive. |
The NHS needs more money.
National Insurance is a regressive tax.
The nub of any discussion about using NI to increase health funding for me cannot exclude a mention of whether we should all pay the same or all pay the same proportionally; not in terms of how much we use that service but accounting for our ability to contribute.
So as far as funding the NHS goes (whether generally or in response to this latest crisis) we are all in the same boat but some of us are doing considerably more rowing than others; an NI increase does little to redress that balance. |  |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 09:31 - Apr 7 with 1126 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 08:47 - Apr 7 by You_Bloo_Right |
The NHS needs more money.
National Insurance is a regressive tax.
The nub of any discussion about using NI to increase health funding for me cannot exclude a mention of whether we should all pay the same or all pay the same proportionally; not in terms of how much we use that service but accounting for our ability to contribute.
So as far as funding the NHS goes (whether generally or in response to this latest crisis) we are all in the same boat but some of us are doing considerably more rowing than others; an NI increase does little to redress that balance. |
The only good thing to come out of it is increasing the NI threshold so it is same as Income Tax.
Hopefully this will eventually lead to combining the two as far as employees are concerned, just need to make the inadequate state pension tax free. |  |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 10:03 - Apr 7 with 1112 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 08:02 - Apr 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Ok. Forget it’s Johnson. Forget it’s the Tories.
If we had a Labour, Lib Dem or Green Government and they said after two years of a pandemic that they would raise NI by 1.25 % in order to address the long neglected issue of social care and tackle the backlog of cancer scans, checks and operations, would you object? |
You have also missed the point of the OP. What I object to is whenever the poor want something the Tories claim we can't afford it and say "where's the money going to come from, a magic money tree?" - i.e. when the nurses wanted a (deserved) pay rise. But when the Tories want some (i.e. to give to the DUP or their mates for not-fit-for-purpose PPE contracts) suddenly they're awash with millions.
I can't "Forget it’s Johnson. Forget it’s the Tories." It's them. Doing this every time. Corrupt scumbags. You cite the "long neglected issue of social care" - well who's been in power, neglecting it, for the last 12 years?! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:03 - Apr 7 with 1074 views | PassionNotAnger |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 10:03 - Apr 7 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You have also missed the point of the OP. What I object to is whenever the poor want something the Tories claim we can't afford it and say "where's the money going to come from, a magic money tree?" - i.e. when the nurses wanted a (deserved) pay rise. But when the Tories want some (i.e. to give to the DUP or their mates for not-fit-for-purpose PPE contracts) suddenly they're awash with millions.
I can't "Forget it’s Johnson. Forget it’s the Tories." It's them. Doing this every time. Corrupt scumbags. You cite the "long neglected issue of social care" - well who's been in power, neglecting it, for the last 12 years?! |
Have to say I think this is 100% spot on - the whataboutery defence of the Conservative Government by their supporters/sympathiser's is just pure deflection and has been used systemically by them as a tactic for years. |  | | |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:19 - Apr 7 with 1035 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 10:03 - Apr 7 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You have also missed the point of the OP. What I object to is whenever the poor want something the Tories claim we can't afford it and say "where's the money going to come from, a magic money tree?" - i.e. when the nurses wanted a (deserved) pay rise. But when the Tories want some (i.e. to give to the DUP or their mates for not-fit-for-purpose PPE contracts) suddenly they're awash with millions.
I can't "Forget it’s Johnson. Forget it’s the Tories." It's them. Doing this every time. Corrupt scumbags. You cite the "long neglected issue of social care" - well who's been in power, neglecting it, for the last 12 years?! |
Do you agree with the 1.25% rise in NI to fund social care and deal with the backlog in the NHS due to being in a pandemic for over two years? | |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:24 - Apr 7 with 1037 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:19 - Apr 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Do you agree with the 1.25% rise in NI to fund social care and deal with the backlog in the NHS due to being in a pandemic for over two years? |
Slightly on a tangent - I always wonder what the point is with National Insurance, I would be for it if all the money went to the NHS but it doesn't, so for me it is a pointless tax. Plus, employers have to fanny about with employees NI contributions and it's a royal pain in the arse.
It would be a lot easier if they scrapped it and just lumped up income tax to cover it. |  |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:28 - Apr 7 with 1003 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:24 - Apr 7 by Lord_Lucan |
Slightly on a tangent - I always wonder what the point is with National Insurance, I would be for it if all the money went to the NHS but it doesn't, so for me it is a pointless tax. Plus, employers have to fanny about with employees NI contributions and it's a royal pain in the arse.
It would be a lot easier if they scrapped it and just lumped up income tax to cover it. |
Yep. Merge the two together. | |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:32 - Apr 7 with 1008 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:28 - Apr 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Yep. Merge the two together. |
There are so many things that are just bleeding obvious but don't get done.
I suspect that changing things whilst in power is not as straightforward as one would think - probably due to back-rowing civil servants. | |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:34 - Apr 7 with 979 views | monytowbray |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 10:03 - Apr 7 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You have also missed the point of the OP. What I object to is whenever the poor want something the Tories claim we can't afford it and say "where's the money going to come from, a magic money tree?" - i.e. when the nurses wanted a (deserved) pay rise. But when the Tories want some (i.e. to give to the DUP or their mates for not-fit-for-purpose PPE contracts) suddenly they're awash with millions.
I can't "Forget it’s Johnson. Forget it’s the Tories." It's them. Doing this every time. Corrupt scumbags. You cite the "long neglected issue of social care" - well who's been in power, neglecting it, for the last 12 years?! |
Never forget when these points were made on here 2 years ago about corrupt public spending he shouted POLITICAL POINT SCORING over and over.
He justified corruption. |  |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:39 - Apr 7 with 983 views | footers |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 10:03 - Apr 7 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You have also missed the point of the OP. What I object to is whenever the poor want something the Tories claim we can't afford it and say "where's the money going to come from, a magic money tree?" - i.e. when the nurses wanted a (deserved) pay rise. But when the Tories want some (i.e. to give to the DUP or their mates for not-fit-for-purpose PPE contracts) suddenly they're awash with millions.
I can't "Forget it’s Johnson. Forget it’s the Tories." It's them. Doing this every time. Corrupt scumbags. You cite the "long neglected issue of social care" - well who's been in power, neglecting it, for the last 12 years?! |
Don't forget the nukes. The ones we already have weren't enough, clearly. But good to know the 'not defending, just explaining' crowd are at it again. But definitely not Tories. Wink wink. |  |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:41 - Apr 7 with 975 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:28 - Apr 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Yep. Merge the two together. |
Just too obvious but it might lose a few votes as their are sure to be losers. Two groups spring to mind Pensioners and top earners. In the first group the majority vote Tory and the second group contain those who donate to the Tory party.
Would need a lot of thought to get it right. Would require a lot more tax bands than we currently have the jump from standard to higher income tax is silly needs to be tapered. Can’t see either of the major Parties bitting thr bullet. | |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:49 - Apr 7 with 948 views | mylittletown |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:19 - Apr 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Do you agree with the 1.25% rise in NI to fund social care and deal with the backlog in the NHS due to being in a pandemic for over two years? |
Does anyone really believe that the 1.25% will actually go the NHS?
Or that if it does, it would be spent with any sort of fairness, wisdom or sense?
And nobody can forget that these are the £350 million a week liars. |  | | |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:50 - Apr 7 with 938 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:41 - Apr 7 by Pinewoodblue |
Just too obvious but it might lose a few votes as their are sure to be losers. Two groups spring to mind Pensioners and top earners. In the first group the majority vote Tory and the second group contain those who donate to the Tory party.
Would need a lot of thought to get it right. Would require a lot more tax bands than we currently have the jump from standard to higher income tax is silly needs to be tapered. Can’t see either of the major Parties bitting thr bullet. |
Bringing the threshold for NI in line with Income tax is a first step. | |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:51 - Apr 7 with 934 views | eireblue |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:19 - Apr 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Do you agree with the 1.25% rise in NI to fund social care and deal with the backlog in the NHS due to being in a pandemic for over two years? |
You are framing the question incorrectly.
This Government claimed to have a plan for Social care that was ready to go, pre-pandemic.
That plan still won’t be delivered for a good few years.
The taxes are being raised, to cover the in-ability of the Government to prevent fraud, and deliver on their promise of funds freed up by Brexit.
If a fiscally responsible and competent Government had an honest conversation about taxation and the needs for proposed increased, and were elected on that basis, then there is a degree of trust that said government would be using my money wisely.
These people are liars and charlatans, and can’t be trusted or believed about what they will do with our money. |  | | |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 12:56 - Apr 7 with 879 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:19 - Apr 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Do you agree with the 1.25% rise in NI to fund social care and deal with the backlog in the NHS due to being in a pandemic for over two years? |
Classic Glasgow Swerve.
I agree that money is needed to fund social care and deal with the backlog in the NHS. I don't agree that taxing the poor (again) during a cost-of-living-crisis is the answer when this government wasting our money (at best) and fraudulently siphoning it off to their mates (at worst) and then coming to the country and demanding more.
Why don't you answer the points I raised?
We could all very well say "do social care and the NHS need funding? Yes. End of conversation." But it isn't as simple as that.
You wouldn't burn someone's house down then charge them for repairing it with "well, it needs repairing doesn't it?" [Post edited 7 Apr 2022 12:57]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 10:29 - Apr 8 with 764 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 12:56 - Apr 7 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Classic Glasgow Swerve.
I agree that money is needed to fund social care and deal with the backlog in the NHS. I don't agree that taxing the poor (again) during a cost-of-living-crisis is the answer when this government wasting our money (at best) and fraudulently siphoning it off to their mates (at worst) and then coming to the country and demanding more.
Why don't you answer the points I raised?
We could all very well say "do social care and the NHS need funding? Yes. End of conversation." But it isn't as simple as that.
You wouldn't burn someone's house down then charge them for repairing it with "well, it needs repairing doesn't it?" [Post edited 7 Apr 2022 12:57]
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Swervers gone swerve.
Absolutely blatant. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 10:34 - Apr 8 with 749 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 10:29 - Apr 8 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Swervers gone swerve.
Absolutely blatant. |
And needy poster is gonna be needy. Oh don’t go all obsessive on me again dollers. I made it perfectly clear that I agree with the rise and what it needs to be spent on.
Are you aware that the poorest have been taken out of paying the rise by the threshold being lifted.
There is nothing to swerve. The finding is needed. This is one of the ways to fund it.
There isn’t a magic money tree. Furlough wasn’t a magic money tree. The country is absolutely skint because of it. We have done the DUP money like a zillion times. The wasted money in PPE is far to complex to discuss with somebody who only sees things in black and white and gets most of their views from watching the trews and conspiracy theorists like David Ike and Russell Brand. Lucan gives a far better response as somebody who has dealt with it.
Now I have some work to do. I can check in on you at lunchtime to see if you’re ok. [Post edited 8 Apr 2022 10:37]
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 10:40 - Apr 8 with 735 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 10:34 - Apr 8 by GlasgowBlue |
And needy poster is gonna be needy. Oh don’t go all obsessive on me again dollers. I made it perfectly clear that I agree with the rise and what it needs to be spent on.
Are you aware that the poorest have been taken out of paying the rise by the threshold being lifted.
There is nothing to swerve. The finding is needed. This is one of the ways to fund it.
There isn’t a magic money tree. Furlough wasn’t a magic money tree. The country is absolutely skint because of it. We have done the DUP money like a zillion times. The wasted money in PPE is far to complex to discuss with somebody who only sees things in black and white and gets most of their views from watching the trews and conspiracy theorists like David Ike and Russell Brand. Lucan gives a far better response as somebody who has dealt with it.
Now I have some work to do. I can check in on you at lunchtime to see if you’re ok. [Post edited 8 Apr 2022 10:37]
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But as you well know, I wasn't really talking about the funding. I was talking about the gross incompetence, waste and downright corruption of this government.
Saying we've discussed it or it's too complex for my tiny mind to comprehend is pathetic. The truth is you can't respond to these points because you know they're right and you haven't got a leg to stand on.
That's why you swerved initially and then hoped it had all gone away as it had dropped onto the second page. And it's why you're so annoyed you haven't even got your edit right. Go on try again. It's needy not seedy.
EDIT: Oh and I see in your latest edit you've brought up Russell Brand again. Classic Ad Hominem attack. Lord knows where you got the loon David Ike from though, but just another pathetic attempt to slur me rather than deal with the points.
[Post edited 8 Apr 2022 10:44]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 10:45 - Apr 8 with 725 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 10:40 - Apr 8 by The_Flashing_Smile |
But as you well know, I wasn't really talking about the funding. I was talking about the gross incompetence, waste and downright corruption of this government.
Saying we've discussed it or it's too complex for my tiny mind to comprehend is pathetic. The truth is you can't respond to these points because you know they're right and you haven't got a leg to stand on.
That's why you swerved initially and then hoped it had all gone away as it had dropped onto the second page. And it's why you're so annoyed you haven't even got your edit right. Go on try again. It's needy not seedy.
EDIT: Oh and I see in your latest edit you've brought up Russell Brand again. Classic Ad Hominem attack. Lord knows where you got the loon David Ike from though, but just another pathetic attempt to slur me rather than deal with the points.
[Post edited 8 Apr 2022 10:44]
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“ That's why you swerved initially and then hoped it had all gone away as it had dropped onto the second page.”
I think that says more about you than it does me. Tbh mate, since typing yesterday’s reply I hadn’t given you or the thread a minute’s thought.
Looks like lunch isn’t going to be enough for you though. I’ll tuck you in and read you a bedtime story as well. | |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 10:45 - Apr 8 with 729 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 10:45 - Apr 8 by GlasgowBlue |
“ That's why you swerved initially and then hoped it had all gone away as it had dropped onto the second page.”
I think that says more about you than it does me. Tbh mate, since typing yesterday’s reply I hadn’t given you or the thread a minute’s thought.
Looks like lunch isn’t going to be enough for you though. I’ll tuck you in and read you a bedtime story as well. |
Grow up and answer the points.
EDIT: Alternatively, admit you're wrong. The Tories are corrupt scumbags wasting our money at best.
Oh and another thing. Claims of obsessing, needing to be checked on at lunchtime, tucked into bed etc. are things you say to lots of posters and are just more examples of swerving. Belittling, patronising, anything but answering. There's no obsession. No one calls reporters obsessives when they try to get politicians to answer questions. That's all this is. I'm trying to get you to answer and you're doing everything in the book, like a politician, to avoid it. [Post edited 8 Apr 2022 10:51]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:00 - Apr 8 with 704 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 10:45 - Apr 8 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Grow up and answer the points.
EDIT: Alternatively, admit you're wrong. The Tories are corrupt scumbags wasting our money at best.
Oh and another thing. Claims of obsessing, needing to be checked on at lunchtime, tucked into bed etc. are things you say to lots of posters and are just more examples of swerving. Belittling, patronising, anything but answering. There's no obsession. No one calls reporters obsessives when they try to get politicians to answer questions. That's all this is. I'm trying to get you to answer and you're doing everything in the book, like a politician, to avoid it. [Post edited 8 Apr 2022 10:51]
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I draw the line at giving you a peck on the cheek.
Look “theTories are corrupt scumbags wasting our money” and “The NI increase is necessary to fund social care and deal with the backlog in the NHS caused by the pandemic” aren’t mutually exclusive.
I see you swerved my point about the threshold being raised so taking the poorest out of NI.
Now stop swerving my point or I’ll scream and stamp my feet and chase you in the internet tomorrow morning. | |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:05 - Apr 8 with 695 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:00 - Apr 8 by GlasgowBlue |
I draw the line at giving you a peck on the cheek.
Look “theTories are corrupt scumbags wasting our money” and “The NI increase is necessary to fund social care and deal with the backlog in the NHS caused by the pandemic” aren’t mutually exclusive.
I see you swerved my point about the threshold being raised so taking the poorest out of NI.
Now stop swerving my point or I’ll scream and stamp my feet and chase you in the internet tomorrow morning. |
I didn't even mention the NI increase, so I have nothing to answer there. There are lots of ways the poor are being shafted by the Tories. My point in my OP was a general one. You steamed in without thinking and are now trying to cover it with all this childish shtick.
You have your lunch early. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:19 - Apr 8 with 674 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:05 - Apr 8 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I didn't even mention the NI increase, so I have nothing to answer there. There are lots of ways the poor are being shafted by the Tories. My point in my OP was a general one. You steamed in without thinking and are now trying to cover it with all this childish shtick.
You have your lunch early. |
And this is why you are impossible to debate with. You said “ I don't agree that taxing the poor (again) during a cost-of-living-crisis”.
A few posts later you say “ I didn’t even mention the NI increase”
You opening post is about Javid justifying the ni increase by saying the money has to come from somewhere.
The poor have been taken out of this tax increase because the threshold has been raised.
This is still the most corrupt and incompetent government of my lifetime. [Post edited 8 Apr 2022 11:21]
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| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 12:08 - Apr 8 with 641 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sajid Javid: The money has to come from somehwere on 11:19 - Apr 8 by GlasgowBlue |
And this is why you are impossible to debate with. You said “ I don't agree that taxing the poor (again) during a cost-of-living-crisis”.
A few posts later you say “ I didn’t even mention the NI increase”
You opening post is about Javid justifying the ni increase by saying the money has to come from somewhere.
The poor have been taken out of this tax increase because the threshold has been raised.
This is still the most corrupt and incompetent government of my lifetime. [Post edited 8 Apr 2022 11:21]
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I was taking Javid's quote and making a wider point.
However, I'm pleased the NI threshold has been raised, that's at least something. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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