| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 17:55 - Aug 4 with 5546 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Regardless of the perpetrator, amnesty are not the problem here. It is right that they should report dispassionately on transgressions.
There is no doubt that the Russians are acting indiscriminately. [Post edited 4 Aug 2022 18:41]
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:01 - Aug 4 with 5539 views | jeera |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 15:18 - Aug 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Out of interest, are you disputing the amnesty claims? War is a dirty business. |
Problem being that Amnesty keep referring to the laws of war which makes this conflict sound like a mutual decision of sorts.
Rather than what it is which is an illegal invasion.
That anyone chooses to focus on Ukraine's forces at this time seems a little odd.
That's not to excuse atrocities towards civilians by any individuals naturally. |  |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:37 - Aug 4 with 5514 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 17:55 - Aug 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Regardless of the perpetrator, amnesty are not the problem here. It is right that they should report dispassionately on transgressions.
There is no doubt that the Russians are acting indiscriminately. [Post edited 4 Aug 2022 18:41]
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Clearly Amnesty are not the problem but the timing of this report could affect military support at a time when it is critical to the outcome of the war. You are correct that they should report on all transgressions but there is a lopsided ability to investigate the two sides.
As an example of this the International Committee of the Red Cross have been unable to access to Olenivka prison.
https://interfax.com.ua/news/general/850474.html |  | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 21:16 - Aug 4 with 5474 views | Eireannach_gorm |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 21:20 - Aug 4 with 5472 views | Eireannach_gorm |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 21:23 - Aug 4 with 5476 views | PhilTWTD |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 15:18 - Aug 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Out of interest, are you disputing the amnesty claims? War is a dirty business. |
I read this thread earlier on the Amnesty report and why it's flawed.
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 21:24 - Aug 4 with 5467 views | Eireannach_gorm |
OMG Is this even possible?
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 21:29 - Aug 4 with 5462 views | Eireannach_gorm |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 21:34 - Aug 4 with 5454 views | Eireannach_gorm |
So sad.
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 21:37 - Aug 4 with 5451 views | Eireannach_gorm |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 21:43 - Aug 4 with 5444 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 21:23 - Aug 4 by PhilTWTD |
I read this thread earlier on the Amnesty report and why it's flawed.
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As I stated, I don't think you can argue with the bullet point summary of the Amnesty report. However, you can ask what alternative Ukraine has. Russia has invaded and they are doing all they can to defend themselves.
Putin needs to be stopped. I don't have the answers to how but it needs to happen. |  |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 22:44 - Aug 4 with 5402 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 21:23 - Aug 4 by PhilTWTD |
I read this thread earlier on the Amnesty report and why it's flawed.
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I understand that the reality of urban warfare might involve basing yourself in lets say a school but in this case we also need to temper our outrage at images of destroyed schools of which there have been all too many. | |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 08:11 - Aug 5 with 5309 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
https://www.grid.news/story/science/2022/08/04/russia-ratchets-up-the-danger-at-
"Appropriation of the Zaporizhzhia plant – where at least two still-working reactors require careful maintenance to safely operate – to use as a shielded artillery park is a dangerous new low in nuclear brinkmanship, perhaps intended to sway NATO against support for a southern offensive from Ukraine, suggested a Thursday analysis from the Institute for the Study of War.
“Russia is now using the plant as a military base to fire at Ukrainians, knowing that they can’t and won’t shoot back,” said Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Monday speaking at the United Nations, because of the possibility of striking a reactor or radioactive waste stored on the site and contaminating southern Ukraine. “That brings the notion of having a human shield to an entirely different and horrific level.”
“We are totally in uncharted territory, said Dalnoki-Veress. “It is the ultimate in state-based nuclear terrorism.” | |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 08:28 - Aug 5 with 5284 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 15:18 - Aug 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Out of interest, are you disputing the amnesty claims? War is a dirty business. |
It’s shameful victim-blaming from Amnesty imo. Russia invaded Ukraine and is committing unspeakable war crimes there. Many highlighted in this thread.
Of course Ukraine have bases in civilian areas. Ukraine forces are defending civilian areas.
What Amnesty have done is green-lit Russia to attack civilian targets whilst providing them with a ready made excuse. And Putin is going to exploit that. |  |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 08:58 - Aug 5 with 5254 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 08:28 - Aug 5 by GlasgowBlue |
It’s shameful victim-blaming from Amnesty imo. Russia invaded Ukraine and is committing unspeakable war crimes there. Many highlighted in this thread.
Of course Ukraine have bases in civilian areas. Ukraine forces are defending civilian areas.
What Amnesty have done is green-lit Russia to attack civilian targets whilst providing them with a ready made excuse. And Putin is going to exploit that. |
Personally I just think that it illustrates there are no rules in war when it comes to trying to stay alive regardless of which side you are on.
Regarding your final point I don't think they needed a green light.
Anyway, enough from me as I do not want to distract from the thread any further. | |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 12:32 - Aug 5 with 5236 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 08:58 - Aug 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Personally I just think that it illustrates there are no rules in war when it comes to trying to stay alive regardless of which side you are on.
Regarding your final point I don't think they needed a green light.
Anyway, enough from me as I do not want to distract from the thread any further. |
Appreciate your contribution because it is good to test the information coming out of Ukraine. Your post regarding the Russians using the nuclear plant as a shield balances your contribution well. Concerning green lights I would just say that this war is as much about propaganda and control of information as boots on the ground. This is also the reason I keep this thread alive. | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 14:07 - Aug 5 with 5194 views | Churchman |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 12:32 - Aug 5 by Eireannach_gorm |
Appreciate your contribution because it is good to test the information coming out of Ukraine. Your post regarding the Russians using the nuclear plant as a shield balances your contribution well. Concerning green lights I would just say that this war is as much about propaganda and control of information as boots on the ground. This is also the reason I keep this thread alive. |
The propaganda is very important. First, domestically Putin has near enough 100% support. Anything said is truth. Keep repeating and any lie becomes truth. Just look at Goebbels claims of deaths after the Dresden raids in 1945 (he stuck a nought on the estimate) and if it worked then, it works with social media even better now.
If Amnesty try and take an ‘even handed’ approach, presumably in a naive attempt to help prepare groundwork for peace (Ukraine surrender).
Propaganda also helps keep those in the west on Putin’s side, including much of east Germany, Hungary and plenty that quietly admire the strong man or are afraid of him here and abroad. To be a little controversial, I think the latter includes Biden who appears too tired and old to want to challenge Putin.
How do I justify that view? Firstly Putin wouldn’t have started this adventure if Biden had sent clearer messages and secondly, had Biden had any strength, a no fly zone would have been threatened before the invasion and that in itself would probably have held Putin back. Nuclear war was never a real possibility because there’s nothing in it but death for Putin. Shame the weak west swallowed the bluff hook line and sinker. Just a view that’s probably wide of the mark.
Propaganda will also help when the war ends too in distorting the truth, burying Russia’s atrocities and helping Nord 1 & 2 and France etc military deals with Russia come roaring out of the woodwork. |  | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 14:42 - Aug 5 with 5152 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 14:07 - Aug 5 by Churchman |
The propaganda is very important. First, domestically Putin has near enough 100% support. Anything said is truth. Keep repeating and any lie becomes truth. Just look at Goebbels claims of deaths after the Dresden raids in 1945 (he stuck a nought on the estimate) and if it worked then, it works with social media even better now.
If Amnesty try and take an ‘even handed’ approach, presumably in a naive attempt to help prepare groundwork for peace (Ukraine surrender).
Propaganda also helps keep those in the west on Putin’s side, including much of east Germany, Hungary and plenty that quietly admire the strong man or are afraid of him here and abroad. To be a little controversial, I think the latter includes Biden who appears too tired and old to want to challenge Putin.
How do I justify that view? Firstly Putin wouldn’t have started this adventure if Biden had sent clearer messages and secondly, had Biden had any strength, a no fly zone would have been threatened before the invasion and that in itself would probably have held Putin back. Nuclear war was never a real possibility because there’s nothing in it but death for Putin. Shame the weak west swallowed the bluff hook line and sinker. Just a view that’s probably wide of the mark.
Propaganda will also help when the war ends too in distorting the truth, burying Russia’s atrocities and helping Nord 1 & 2 and France etc military deals with Russia come roaring out of the woodwork. |
You can include Serbia on the list of countries feeding off this.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/8/4/whats-behind-the-renewed-tensions-betwee | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 15:21 - Aug 5 with 5128 views | Churchman |
I forgot about them. Yep, big support there for Putin. | | | |
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