| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 16:02 - Nov 4 with 6971 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 11:08 - Nov 4 by TeHuia |
Wow.
This is hard. I know I'm gonna get stuffed for this.
I grew up going to Portman Road every 2nd Saturday. Sometimes with my school kit bag still on my back, at first I was about 3 steps back from the real little ones on their boxes in the East Stand, North Stand as a teenager, then Churchmans till the hooligans all got silly.
Am I allowed to say what I think here?
Only I don't live locally any more and I'm having trouble getting my head around this thread. [Post edited 4 Nov 2022 11:13]
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I am not sure how I can assist you to get your head around the topic of this thread, I have great difficulty getting my own head around it! This football related article shows the difficulties that one Ukrainian football team has to even continue playing. They have not played in their own stadium for 8 years.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/shakhtar-donetsk/story/4788207/shakhtar-donetsk-cham |  | |  |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 21:30 - Nov 4 with 6903 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 11:08 - Nov 4 by TeHuia |
Wow.
This is hard. I know I'm gonna get stuffed for this.
I grew up going to Portman Road every 2nd Saturday. Sometimes with my school kit bag still on my back, at first I was about 3 steps back from the real little ones on their boxes in the East Stand, North Stand as a teenager, then Churchmans till the hooligans all got silly.
Am I allowed to say what I think here?
Only I don't live locally any more and I'm having trouble getting my head around this thread. [Post edited 4 Nov 2022 11:13]
|
I presume the bit you expected to get stuffed for is what you edited out.
There are Ukrainian fans who will have been brought up going to the Olympic Stadium, Kyiv every other Saturday. Sometimes with their school bag still on their backs. I can't imagine what life is like for them now.
Aside from having trouble getting your head around the content of this thread, I am struggling to get what you are saying, really. It is like you meant to post on a different thread. Why wouldn't you be allowed to say what you think? Just don't expect anything at all controversial to be left unchallenged. |  |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 22:36 - Nov 4 with 6859 views | TeHuia |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 21:30 - Nov 4 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I presume the bit you expected to get stuffed for is what you edited out.
There are Ukrainian fans who will have been brought up going to the Olympic Stadium, Kyiv every other Saturday. Sometimes with their school bag still on their backs. I can't imagine what life is like for them now.
Aside from having trouble getting your head around the content of this thread, I am struggling to get what you are saying, really. It is like you meant to post on a different thread. Why wouldn't you be allowed to say what you think? Just don't expect anything at all controversial to be left unchallenged. |
Nah mate, just a typo correction.
Getting my head around the complete and utter one-sidedness of the thread is the hard bit. |  | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 22:38 - Nov 4 with 6853 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 22:36 - Nov 4 by TeHuia |
Nah mate, just a typo correction.
Getting my head around the complete and utter one-sidedness of the thread is the hard bit. |
OK. I am sure you are free to put across whatever other side you wish to. Although, as I said, don't expect controversial views to go unchallenged. | |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 22:44 - Nov 4 with 6845 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 22:36 - Nov 4 by TeHuia |
Nah mate, just a typo correction.
Getting my head around the complete and utter one-sidedness of the thread is the hard bit. |
Are you suggesting there is validity to Russia invading Ukraine and knocking the sh1t out of it? Do share your thoughts on this. There is possibly reason for the one sided nature of the posts but it would be great to get a reasoned view on the 'other side' of this.
Edited because of typo
[Post edited 4 Nov 2022 22:47]
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 23:26 - Nov 4 with 6803 views | TeHuia |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 22:44 - Nov 4 by Eireannach_gorm |
Are you suggesting there is validity to Russia invading Ukraine and knocking the sh1t out of it? Do share your thoughts on this. There is possibly reason for the one sided nature of the posts but it would be great to get a reasoned view on the 'other side' of this.
Edited because of typo
[Post edited 4 Nov 2022 22:47]
|
Thank you for encouraging me to share my thoughts.
My main concern is for my close family this coming winter who live in Eastern Europe. I think things will be OK in the small city they live in, or at least a lot better than some unfortunates are going to be.
I'm greatly saddened by what is happening to the people of Ukraine, on both sides. I can't imagine how it feels to have your sons sent for slaughter in a war which should never have been necessary.
It is hard to condone Russia's invasion of Ukraine and I wouldn't attempt to do so. But if I am to pick just one little thing I feel the prevailing narrative is demonstrably wrong about, just a single adjective which I believe is unfailingly misapplied and that is 'unprovoked',
I don't believe the invasion was unprovoked and neither do the OECD, or even the Pope for that matter. | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 23:38 - Nov 4 with 6788 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 23:26 - Nov 4 by TeHuia |
Thank you for encouraging me to share my thoughts.
My main concern is for my close family this coming winter who live in Eastern Europe. I think things will be OK in the small city they live in, or at least a lot better than some unfortunates are going to be.
I'm greatly saddened by what is happening to the people of Ukraine, on both sides. I can't imagine how it feels to have your sons sent for slaughter in a war which should never have been necessary.
It is hard to condone Russia's invasion of Ukraine and I wouldn't attempt to do so. But if I am to pick just one little thing I feel the prevailing narrative is demonstrably wrong about, just a single adjective which I believe is unfailingly misapplied and that is 'unprovoked',
I don't believe the invasion was unprovoked and neither do the OECD, or even the Pope for that matter. |
Just a quick point on the Vatican position on this war.
Seems that pontifs has no issues with Nazis once they don't invade the Vatican.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/03/03/pope-pius-holocaust-vatican-re [Post edited 4 Nov 2022 23:40]
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 23:43 - Nov 4 with 6782 views | TeHuia |
I'm sorry, what do the views of Pope Pius XII (1876—1958) have to do with the war in Ukraine in 2022? | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 03:37 - Nov 5 with 6719 views | Kropotkin123 |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 23:26 - Nov 4 by TeHuia |
Thank you for encouraging me to share my thoughts.
My main concern is for my close family this coming winter who live in Eastern Europe. I think things will be OK in the small city they live in, or at least a lot better than some unfortunates are going to be.
I'm greatly saddened by what is happening to the people of Ukraine, on both sides. I can't imagine how it feels to have your sons sent for slaughter in a war which should never have been necessary.
It is hard to condone Russia's invasion of Ukraine and I wouldn't attempt to do so. But if I am to pick just one little thing I feel the prevailing narrative is demonstrably wrong about, just a single adjective which I believe is unfailingly misapplied and that is 'unprovoked',
I don't believe the invasion was unprovoked and neither do the OECD, or even the Pope for that matter. |
Pope Francis has said Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine was “perhaps somehow provoked” as he recalled a conversation in the run-up to the war in which he was warned Nato was “barking at the gates of Russia”.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/14/pope-francis-ukraine-war-provoked-
Perhaps: "used to express uncertainty or possibility."
Somehow: "for a reason that is not known or specified."
I typed "oecd ukraine war russia provoked" and got "The world economy is paying a high price for Russia’s unprovoked, unjustifiable, and illegal war of aggression against Ukraine," the OECD said in a regular report updating its economic outlook.
https://www.rferl.org/a/oecd-russia-war-ukraine-global-economic-impact/32052293.
The reason you are seeing a one sided account is because Russia invade Ukraine in 2014 after Ukraine found enough natural gas off the coast of Crimea to make it the 15 biggest supplier in the world and a direct competitor to Russia in the suppy of energy to Europe, it then annexed Crimea from Ukraine. It then sent forces to destabilize the Donbas. Following this, the UK and the US trained the Ukrainian army and started supplying it with defensive weapons, intelligence and so on. This act of preparing Ukraine for future Russian aggression was then used as one of the pretexts to officially invade Ukraine for a second time. It was framed as "provocation" by Russia. Those that like to paint the USA as the bad guy in every situation regurgitated this Russian narative and it was picked up by more innocent/less biased people who simply didn't apply enough critical thinking.
But anyway, you are going to have to raise your game from taking certainty and conviction from an out of touch 85 year old who says "perhaps somehow". |  |
| Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top. | | Poll: | Would you rather | | Blog: | Round Four: Eagle |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 08:35 - Nov 5 with 6651 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 23:26 - Nov 4 by TeHuia |
Thank you for encouraging me to share my thoughts.
My main concern is for my close family this coming winter who live in Eastern Europe. I think things will be OK in the small city they live in, or at least a lot better than some unfortunates are going to be.
I'm greatly saddened by what is happening to the people of Ukraine, on both sides. I can't imagine how it feels to have your sons sent for slaughter in a war which should never have been necessary.
It is hard to condone Russia's invasion of Ukraine and I wouldn't attempt to do so. But if I am to pick just one little thing I feel the prevailing narrative is demonstrably wrong about, just a single adjective which I believe is unfailingly misapplied and that is 'unprovoked',
I don't believe the invasion was unprovoked and neither do the OECD, or even the Pope for that matter. |
https://www.oecd.org/countries/ukraine/statement-of-oecd-council-on-the-russian-
24/02/2022 - The OECD Council condemns the large scale aggression by Russia against Ukraine in the strongest possible terms as a clear violation of international law and a serious threat to the rules-based international order.
We stand in solidarity with the Ukrainian people.
The OECD Council is reconsidering all cooperation with Russia as a matter of urgency and is assessing the economic and social repercussions.
Working with over 100 countries, the OECD is a global policy forum that promotes policies to preserve individual liberty and improve the economic and social well-being of people around the world. |  |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 08:50 - Nov 5 with 6638 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 23:26 - Nov 4 by TeHuia |
Thank you for encouraging me to share my thoughts.
My main concern is for my close family this coming winter who live in Eastern Europe. I think things will be OK in the small city they live in, or at least a lot better than some unfortunates are going to be.
I'm greatly saddened by what is happening to the people of Ukraine, on both sides. I can't imagine how it feels to have your sons sent for slaughter in a war which should never have been necessary.
It is hard to condone Russia's invasion of Ukraine and I wouldn't attempt to do so. But if I am to pick just one little thing I feel the prevailing narrative is demonstrably wrong about, just a single adjective which I believe is unfailingly misapplied and that is 'unprovoked',
I don't believe the invasion was unprovoked and neither do the OECD, or even the Pope for that matter. |
It's fair to say there has been an ongoing global power play with the people of Ukraine in the middle.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine-tape-idUSBREA1601G20140207
This doesn't excuse in any way Putin's 'little man' posturing and the lives lost as a result on both sides.
I think this thread just highlights the insanity of war. | |
| |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 11:52 - Nov 5 with 6591 views | TeHuia |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 03:37 - Nov 5 by Kropotkin123 |
Pope Francis has said Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine was “perhaps somehow provoked” as he recalled a conversation in the run-up to the war in which he was warned Nato was “barking at the gates of Russia”.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/14/pope-francis-ukraine-war-provoked-
Perhaps: "used to express uncertainty or possibility."
Somehow: "for a reason that is not known or specified."
I typed "oecd ukraine war russia provoked" and got "The world economy is paying a high price for Russia’s unprovoked, unjustifiable, and illegal war of aggression against Ukraine," the OECD said in a regular report updating its economic outlook.
https://www.rferl.org/a/oecd-russia-war-ukraine-global-economic-impact/32052293.
The reason you are seeing a one sided account is because Russia invade Ukraine in 2014 after Ukraine found enough natural gas off the coast of Crimea to make it the 15 biggest supplier in the world and a direct competitor to Russia in the suppy of energy to Europe, it then annexed Crimea from Ukraine. It then sent forces to destabilize the Donbas. Following this, the UK and the US trained the Ukrainian army and started supplying it with defensive weapons, intelligence and so on. This act of preparing Ukraine for future Russian aggression was then used as one of the pretexts to officially invade Ukraine for a second time. It was framed as "provocation" by Russia. Those that like to paint the USA as the bad guy in every situation regurgitated this Russian narative and it was picked up by more innocent/less biased people who simply didn't apply enough critical thinking.
But anyway, you are going to have to raise your game from taking certainty and conviction from an out of touch 85 year old who says "perhaps somehow". |
Ah my, up my game indeed I must and I don't rest my opinion solely on the opinions of His Holiness
But be comforted as it seems you debate with a halfwit - I meant to refer to the OSCE not OECD. I do apologize for my daft error, I wish I could guarantee it won't be repeated.
But, to the point.
"The Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe is the world's largest regional security-oriented intergovernmental organization with observer status at the United Nations. Its mandate includes issues such as arms control, promotion of human rights, freedom of the press, and free and fair elections". (Wikipedia).
Their Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine was monitoring breaches of the ceasefire in the Donbas prior to Russia's invasion. In the images linked below are (or should be as I've not done this on here before) maps which they produced of observed ceasefire violations from Feb 14 - 22. Russia invaded on Feb 24.
https://imgur.com/a/zBFhW4h
From this information, might not an impartial observer reasonably draw the conclusion that the invasion was a direct response to the breaches of the ceasefire shown here? | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 12:40 - Nov 5 with 6561 views | Kievthegreat |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 11:52 - Nov 5 by TeHuia |
Ah my, up my game indeed I must and I don't rest my opinion solely on the opinions of His Holiness
But be comforted as it seems you debate with a halfwit - I meant to refer to the OSCE not OECD. I do apologize for my daft error, I wish I could guarantee it won't be repeated.
But, to the point.
"The Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe is the world's largest regional security-oriented intergovernmental organization with observer status at the United Nations. Its mandate includes issues such as arms control, promotion of human rights, freedom of the press, and free and fair elections". (Wikipedia).
Their Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine was monitoring breaches of the ceasefire in the Donbas prior to Russia's invasion. In the images linked below are (or should be as I've not done this on here before) maps which they produced of observed ceasefire violations from Feb 14 - 22. Russia invaded on Feb 24.
https://imgur.com/a/zBFhW4h
From this information, might not an impartial observer reasonably draw the conclusion that the invasion was a direct response to the breaches of the ceasefire shown here? |
The breaches of the ceasefire occurred as soon as the ink was dry. If we accept the maps are valid (that is a weird link to share them on), it doesn't indicate any side as aggressor, if the puppet regimes fired 10 shells and the Ukrainians 10 back, the OSCE just reports 20 violations. Reading up on actual reports however shows a pattern of transgressions from the Russian proxies.
https://www.osce.org/press-releases?filters=%20im_taxonomy_vid_1%3A%28896%29&
Repeatedly interfering with their observations, threatening them with arrest and violence. Attacking them and their equipment. To this day, multiple members of the team responsible for carrying out these observations have been incarcerated by the proxy authorities.
https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/523398
It also doesn't explain why Russia had already moved hundreds of thousands of troops to the Ukrainian borders BEFORE the large increase in violations in the days before the invasion and why it focused it's attacks on completely different parts of the country. Rather than make attacks on the area were things were flaring up, the biggest concentration of Russian force when to pushing along the southern front to Odessa and to Kyiv in the North.
Do you believe it was merely fortuitous that Russia had stationed an enormous collection of armed forces all along the border at just the moment the escalation occurred? |  | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 14:12 - Nov 5 with 6527 views | Churchman |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 23:26 - Nov 4 by TeHuia |
Thank you for encouraging me to share my thoughts.
My main concern is for my close family this coming winter who live in Eastern Europe. I think things will be OK in the small city they live in, or at least a lot better than some unfortunates are going to be.
I'm greatly saddened by what is happening to the people of Ukraine, on both sides. I can't imagine how it feels to have your sons sent for slaughter in a war which should never have been necessary.
It is hard to condone Russia's invasion of Ukraine and I wouldn't attempt to do so. But if I am to pick just one little thing I feel the prevailing narrative is demonstrably wrong about, just a single adjective which I believe is unfailingly misapplied and that is 'unprovoked',
I don't believe the invasion was unprovoked and neither do the OECD, or even the Pope for that matter. |
It is no good saying it’s hard to condone Russia’s invasion of Ukraine then condone it by saying the invasion was provoked. It wasn’t.
In words and deeds over 20 years, Putin has been clear about what he wants. A reversal of what he perceives is a humiliation heaped upon Russia with the break up of the USSR. To do that, he has signed agreements, then broken them, swallowed territory that is not Russia’s, invading, murdering, raping, stealing, killing in Ukraine and trying to impose his will with blackmail, threats, terror and lies.
Yet people still try and make excuses. ‘We must give Putin an out’. Why? ‘NATO is the aggressor threatening Russia’. No it isn’t. It hasn’t invaded anybody. It’s defensive built to defend the west against the USSR. ‘Russia needs a buffer’. No it doesn’t. There was never a buffer between the USSR/it’s satellites and NATO.
The only provocation is by that piece of dirt Putin and that began the day he felt strong enough to start it. He wants territory and resources along with a place in history. There can never be any excuse for slicing away a slice of territory from a sovereign country as he did in 2014 then invade it because he thought he could.
It’s as simple as that. |  | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 20:48 - Nov 5 with 6454 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 23:43 - Nov 4 by TeHuia |
I'm sorry, what do the views of Pope Pius XII (1876—1958) have to do with the war in Ukraine in 2022? |
The point is that the Vatican do not have a good track picking sides in wars.
Pope Francis opposite number is even worse ( surprised you did not mention him ).
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/21/world/europe/kirill-putin-russian-orthodox-ch
I think you may have to move off the provocation angle as that has been comprehensively debunked. | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 00:17 - Nov 6 with 6389 views | TeHuia |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 12:40 - Nov 5 by Kievthegreat |
The breaches of the ceasefire occurred as soon as the ink was dry. If we accept the maps are valid (that is a weird link to share them on), it doesn't indicate any side as aggressor, if the puppet regimes fired 10 shells and the Ukrainians 10 back, the OSCE just reports 20 violations. Reading up on actual reports however shows a pattern of transgressions from the Russian proxies.
https://www.osce.org/press-releases?filters=%20im_taxonomy_vid_1%3A%28896%29&
Repeatedly interfering with their observations, threatening them with arrest and violence. Attacking them and their equipment. To this day, multiple members of the team responsible for carrying out these observations have been incarcerated by the proxy authorities.
https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/523398
It also doesn't explain why Russia had already moved hundreds of thousands of troops to the Ukrainian borders BEFORE the large increase in violations in the days before the invasion and why it focused it's attacks on completely different parts of the country. Rather than make attacks on the area were things were flaring up, the biggest concentration of Russian force when to pushing along the southern front to Odessa and to Kyiv in the North.
Do you believe it was merely fortuitous that Russia had stationed an enormous collection of armed forces all along the border at just the moment the escalation occurred? |
Good morning to you and thank you for your comments.
I'm shortly off down our local fishing club for a Sunday lunchtime gargle and a natter with the other local desparados, one is a Sheff U fan so he'll be bouncing. But before I do I thought I'd just add this chart, the source is OSCE SMM Daily Reports.
https://imgur.com/a/RpoaGS7
It shows the number of reported explosions each day between Feb14-22. Sadly we are not talking about reports of 10 or 20 explosions here but a rapid escalation to around 1,400 per day. This information may be viewed as complementary to the OSCE-derived maps previously linked showing the geographic distribution of the explosions.
"Do you believe it was merely fortuitous that Russia had stationed an enormous collection of armed forces all along the border at just the moment the escalation occurred?"
I think it probable Russia had advance knowledge of the attacks which the information I am providing you with document to have taken place prior to their invasion. One might imagine they would prepare accordingly.
Anyway I must be off, enjoy your Sunday. | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 11:00 - Nov 6 with 6288 views | WeWereZombies |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 00:17 - Nov 6 by TeHuia |
Good morning to you and thank you for your comments.
I'm shortly off down our local fishing club for a Sunday lunchtime gargle and a natter with the other local desparados, one is a Sheff U fan so he'll be bouncing. But before I do I thought I'd just add this chart, the source is OSCE SMM Daily Reports.
https://imgur.com/a/RpoaGS7
It shows the number of reported explosions each day between Feb14-22. Sadly we are not talking about reports of 10 or 20 explosions here but a rapid escalation to around 1,400 per day. This information may be viewed as complementary to the OSCE-derived maps previously linked showing the geographic distribution of the explosions.
"Do you believe it was merely fortuitous that Russia had stationed an enormous collection of armed forces all along the border at just the moment the escalation occurred?"
I think it probable Russia had advance knowledge of the attacks which the information I am providing you with document to have taken place prior to their invasion. One might imagine they would prepare accordingly.
Anyway I must be off, enjoy your Sunday. |
Must be a long walk to the fishing club if you have to start just after midnight to get there for Sunday lunchtime, even Vladivostok is only ten hours ahead of London. |  |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 15:06 - Nov 6 with 6223 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 00:17 - Nov 6 by TeHuia |
Good morning to you and thank you for your comments.
I'm shortly off down our local fishing club for a Sunday lunchtime gargle and a natter with the other local desparados, one is a Sheff U fan so he'll be bouncing. But before I do I thought I'd just add this chart, the source is OSCE SMM Daily Reports.
https://imgur.com/a/RpoaGS7
It shows the number of reported explosions each day between Feb14-22. Sadly we are not talking about reports of 10 or 20 explosions here but a rapid escalation to around 1,400 per day. This information may be viewed as complementary to the OSCE-derived maps previously linked showing the geographic distribution of the explosions.
"Do you believe it was merely fortuitous that Russia had stationed an enormous collection of armed forces all along the border at just the moment the escalation occurred?"
I think it probable Russia had advance knowledge of the attacks which the information I am providing you with document to have taken place prior to their invasion. One might imagine they would prepare accordingly.
Anyway I must be off, enjoy your Sunday. |
Thank you for providing the balance to this thread condemning Russia for their appalling disrespect for democracy and disgraceful invasion of Ukraine. A random map posted to an image sharing site without any accreditation claiming to show the rate of explosions in the occupied Donbas is powerful evidence indeed. A few questions relating to that:
What is the source of your data? Who was causing these explosions? Why would a full-scale invasion of Ukraine be a proportionate response to them?
How do you feel about the conclusion of the United Nations discussion on Russia's invasion? 143 countries condemn it. Only 5 countries voted against the resolution - North Korea, Russia, Syria, Belarus and Nicaragua. I have no idea why Nicaragua should vote that way, but I think it is pretty clear why Belarus, Syria and Russia themselves would. To get into bed with North Korea is not a good look. Even India and China did not vote against the resolution to condemn the invasion. The support for it among members of the UN is 2.7%.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-63237669
https://fortune.com/2022/03/02/china-civilians-harm-russia-invasion-ukraine-war/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-61006169
The last two articles show how even India and China who did not vote with the 143 countries that passed the UN resolution to condemn Russia recognise that Russia are wrong to be invading Ukraine. You seem to be lacking in your defence so far. | |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 16:26 - Nov 6 with 6169 views | Kropotkin123 |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 15:06 - Nov 6 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Thank you for providing the balance to this thread condemning Russia for their appalling disrespect for democracy and disgraceful invasion of Ukraine. A random map posted to an image sharing site without any accreditation claiming to show the rate of explosions in the occupied Donbas is powerful evidence indeed. A few questions relating to that:
What is the source of your data? Who was causing these explosions? Why would a full-scale invasion of Ukraine be a proportionate response to them?
How do you feel about the conclusion of the United Nations discussion on Russia's invasion? 143 countries condemn it. Only 5 countries voted against the resolution - North Korea, Russia, Syria, Belarus and Nicaragua. I have no idea why Nicaragua should vote that way, but I think it is pretty clear why Belarus, Syria and Russia themselves would. To get into bed with North Korea is not a good look. Even India and China did not vote against the resolution to condemn the invasion. The support for it among members of the UN is 2.7%.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-63237669
https://fortune.com/2022/03/02/china-civilians-harm-russia-invasion-ukraine-war/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-61006169
The last two articles show how even India and China who did not vote with the 143 countries that passed the UN resolution to condemn Russia recognise that Russia are wrong to be invading Ukraine. You seem to be lacking in your defence so far. |
Nicaragua often votes for Russia / against the USA due to financial support of paramilitary groups after the Sandinistas toppled a dynasty.
It would be like the North Korean people rose up against the Kim dynasty tomorrow, introduced legitimate democratic elections, carried out welfare programs and then the US sponsored paramilitaries, with money obtained by trafficking illegal drugs (Iran-Contra affair), who then killed those at the forefront of welfare programs, such as teacher, doctors, etc, in gruesome ways (slitting their throats and pulling their tongue through until they died was one that I read when studying it at university), to put people off improving the lives of underprivileged sections of society.
I think we can give them a pass when it comes to trusting the US. | |
| Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top. | | Poll: | Would you rather | | Blog: | Round Four: Eagle |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 16:55 - Nov 6 with 6137 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 11:00 - Nov 6 by WeWereZombies |
Must be a long walk to the fishing club if you have to start just after midnight to get there for Sunday lunchtime, even Vladivostok is only ten hours ahead of London. |
Judging by the user name he could be in Australia. | |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 17:07 - Nov 6 with 6125 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 16:55 - Nov 6 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Judging by the user name he could be in Australia. |
Why would he choose a place name from New Zealand in that case? | |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:11 - Nov 6 with 6093 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 17:07 - Nov 6 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Why would he choose a place name from New Zealand in that case? |
Oh yes, but he's a train.
https://www.tehuiatrain.co.nz/ | |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:14 - Nov 6 with 8398 views | jeera |
I've always fancied a trip on the Ghan as it goes. |  |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 02:32 - Nov 7 with 8270 views | TeHuia |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 15:06 - Nov 6 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Thank you for providing the balance to this thread condemning Russia for their appalling disrespect for democracy and disgraceful invasion of Ukraine. A random map posted to an image sharing site without any accreditation claiming to show the rate of explosions in the occupied Donbas is powerful evidence indeed. A few questions relating to that:
What is the source of your data? Who was causing these explosions? Why would a full-scale invasion of Ukraine be a proportionate response to them?
How do you feel about the conclusion of the United Nations discussion on Russia's invasion? 143 countries condemn it. Only 5 countries voted against the resolution - North Korea, Russia, Syria, Belarus and Nicaragua. I have no idea why Nicaragua should vote that way, but I think it is pretty clear why Belarus, Syria and Russia themselves would. To get into bed with North Korea is not a good look. Even India and China did not vote against the resolution to condemn the invasion. The support for it among members of the UN is 2.7%.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-63237669
https://fortune.com/2022/03/02/china-civilians-harm-russia-invasion-ukraine-war/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-61006169
The last two articles show how even India and China who did not vote with the 143 countries that passed the UN resolution to condemn Russia recognise that Russia are wrong to be invading Ukraine. You seem to be lacking in your defence so far. |
Kia Ora! The express overnight train service from Vladivostock was running a bit late this morning. I shall have to have a word with ВолодÑ.
”What is the source of your data?
The OSCE. Was that not sufficiently clear? More specifically, their Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine.
This organisation appears to have been the sole independent monitor of the ceasefire agreement, located on both sides of the frontline, prior to Russia’s invasion. I’m not able to find another independent, verifiable source but would be happy to learn of others should they exist.
”A random map posted to an image sharing site without any accreditation claiming to show the rate of explosions in the occupied Donbas is powerful evidence indeed.”
Well, apart from ‘random’ and ‘without any accreditation’, I agree with your statement. For clarity’s sake I will explain. I put the maps on an image hosting site, as recommended at www.twtd.co.uk/forum/faq#imagehd , because it is not possible to link directly to the maps from the source at www.osce.org as they are contained within .pdf files, nor, so far as I am aware, is it possible to insert an image into a forum comment on TWTD.
However the original maps are of better scale and detail and will help you to discern the facts more clearly. Perhaps then we may discuss the content of the information I posted rather than the method by which I did so?
Here is the report list, (you will have to excuse the ghastly url, the date range selected is that of the maps and chart already posted, Feb 14-22, 2022):
https://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports/?filters=+im_taxonomy_vid_22:(1136)+ds_
And here are the individual .pdf files, the maps should be on the 2nd page:
https://www.osce.org/files/2022-02-13-14%20Daily%20Report_ENG.pdf
https://www.osce.org/files/2022-02-15%20Daily%20Report_ENG.pdf
https://www.osce.org/files/2022-02-16%20Daily%20Report_ENG.pdf
https://www.osce.org/files/2022-02-17%20Daily%20Report_ENG.pdf
https://www.osce.org/files/2022-02-18%20Daily%20Report_ENG.pdf
https://www.osce.org/files/2022-02-19%20Daily%20Report.pdf
https://www.osce.org/files/2022-02-20-21%20Daily%20Report_ENG.pdf
https://www.osce.org/files/2022-02-22%20Daily%20Report_ENG.pdf
”Who was causing these explosions?
I wonder if we could possibly discern that from looking at these maps? Let’s take the one from the last of the above list. I shall have to resort to an image hosting site again if you don’t mind, at least you can check the direct link to the source above to make sure no nefarious Russian hacker has altered the image:
https://imgur.com/a/tWN8r5H
It’s abundantly clear on which side of the frontline the vast majority of these recorded ceasefire violations took place. Bear in mind these observations were made three days prior to the start of Russia’s 'special military operation'.
Should you still need to ask ”Who was causing these explosions?, further clues can be found in the above-linked .pdf reports as each also contains a Table of Ceasefire Violations which detail and enumerate the violations observed. Unlike the maps which present much of the same data in a more digestible graphical format, these can be directly linked from the source. Here is that from the same .pdf as the above map:
https://www.osce.org/files/8/8/table_ceasefire--2022-02-21.pdf
I'm not aware of more detailed information being available outside military circles so dive into the detail your heart’s content. I'm sure I can leave you to draw your own conclusions from the evidence presented.
But enough for now, there’s stuff to be done and I need to be up, installed in front of the screen, replete with bacon and eggs, equipped with a steaming great mug of black coffee in one paw by 7:45am tomorrow morning if I am to catch the big one down at Sandhurst. | | | |
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