| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? 13:37 - May 31 with 3548 views | BonneNIL |
I am reading the upset about Rotherham fans having a less than positive opinion of Ladapo. While personally, I won't write him off until I see him play, I do respect the opinion of supporters from other clubs.
It's not like it's always the issue, I don't understand this idea that opposition supporters always berate people who leave, Wigan fans praised highly many of the players we signed last year. Charlton and QPR fans were broadly spot on about Bonne too. The idea that Rotherham supporters are wrong out of hand is ridiculous. They are saying he is lazy with a bad attitude broadly and not good enough for the Championship. He probably isn't good enough for the Championship otherwise there is no way Rotherham would have let him go on a free either. Hopefully, he will be a success here in our new system, personally, I feel he's no worse than Norwood who we released and has a better record in this league than Jackson so worth a signing on a free. If he does indeed have an attitude problem, then he won't last anyway and he will find himself without a job. He also performed better than Piggott did for us last season, and marginally better than Bonne. I have no complaints about a free transfer like this. I don't think we can angrily write off opposition supporters' views on players. I don't think the club should either, it's valuable feedback. In the past, we ignored warnings about the likes of Bullard, Chopra, and co, and what an absolute nightmare that all caused us.
If you look at some of our recent examples, Dozzell has almost entirely reflected at QPR what our supporters said about him on his exit. Downes was highly praised and has been a top performer in the Championship. We don't offer that opinion because we are better, I imagine most of us want to see both of these guys do well.
On the upside, signing a Rotherham player may actually help us wisen up to this league a bit, we are far too soft and naive and get mugged off far too easily by the opposition who know how to work the poor refereeing and linesmen. |  |
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 13:43 - May 31 with 3174 views | STYG |
The thing that sticks out here is that Paul Warne, a man I absolutely cannot stand, demands one thing above all else and that is players putting in 100%.
He's been virtually an ever present in three seasons under Warne, largely starting or involved from the bench if not, which just doesn't scan if he's supposedly not working hard enough.
On top of that, we have McKenna and our analytics, the ones used by Manchester United, which will show just how much work Ladapo does in addition to his fit in the striking roles and that rubber stamps the myth that he is lazy.
Half our fans would have kept Bonne and nearly half Norwood if what I'd read is to be believed. Nobody knows how he will do here, under McKenna, in a football first system, closer to home, at the biggest club he's been at (yes I include Palace), in what's likely his last big move at a good age, off the back of four impressive seasons at this level and above.
Given the way he ended there, wanting to leave for one of their hated rivals, I can't help but feel that there may be just a little rewriting of narratives going on. |  | | |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 13:49 - May 31 with 3140 views | J2BLUE |
Why do people feel the need to decide a player's fate before they kick a ball for us? I know we're all bored and discussing things which is normal but there seems to be a lot of people who want to decide right now whether he's crap or is going to fire us all the way to the Premier League. Maybe we could just wait and see?
There is a growing element who seem desperate to jump first to write a player or manager off so they can come back and boast about being right. It's really pathetic.
With Ladapo, the jury is out. There's enough there to be optimistic and mildly excited IMO but i'll wait and see how he plays before judging. And not based on his first appearance either. If he has a bad first game there will be someone posting at half time that he's not good enough. If he has a good first game there will be people posting that the striker position is solved and we don't need anyone else.
Most of us on here have seen many players come in on frees who weren't met with much optimism who ended up being great players for the club. We've also seen big money (for us) signings be absolutely crap. It just seems some people will never learn. [Post edited 31 May 2022 13:49]
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 14:03 - May 31 with 3044 views | Guthrum |
Moving clubs does provide a break-point in a lot of areas. Manager, team-mates, setup, location, accomodation, fans, style of play, opportunities to get on the pitch, even just fresh scenery. Change is at least as likely as continuity - certainly on the mental front. |  |
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 14:05 - May 31 with 3035 views | STYG |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 13:49 - May 31 by J2BLUE |
Why do people feel the need to decide a player's fate before they kick a ball for us? I know we're all bored and discussing things which is normal but there seems to be a lot of people who want to decide right now whether he's crap or is going to fire us all the way to the Premier League. Maybe we could just wait and see?
There is a growing element who seem desperate to jump first to write a player or manager off so they can come back and boast about being right. It's really pathetic.
With Ladapo, the jury is out. There's enough there to be optimistic and mildly excited IMO but i'll wait and see how he plays before judging. And not based on his first appearance either. If he has a bad first game there will be someone posting at half time that he's not good enough. If he has a good first game there will be people posting that the striker position is solved and we don't need anyone else.
Most of us on here have seen many players come in on frees who weren't met with much optimism who ended up being great players for the club. We've also seen big money (for us) signings be absolutely crap. It just seems some people will never learn. [Post edited 31 May 2022 13:49]
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Also worth posting this as well, from September.
I don't remember too many people arguing with many of the placements.
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/ranking-new-itfc-signings-8294196
Kyle Edwards was 3rd, Burgess 4th and Coulson 6th. Fraser 8th and Harper 9th. Piggott 10th and Barry 11th.
Wesley Burns was 12th!!! One place above Edmundson. Three places above Walton! The most underwhelming of all was Aluko!
I recall at the time I thought Burgess may be a bit high and Edmundson low. Thought Walton was likely to prove much higher than that but Aluko did seem like squad filler. There wasn't much wrong with that list at all though based on 'paper'.
Now we see Burns player of the year, Walton can't have been far behind, Edwards did little from about September onwards and the players between 8th and 11th did pretty much nothing, whilst some thing Fridge is our best defender.
Just goes to show that at this level nothing is certain. If we brought in Premier League regulars then clearly they would be a cut above. But from the middle of Championship down to top of League Two, it's very hard to know who will be consistently good in our system unless they are proven in it.
For all the new signings that takes time for them to be massive hits or misses. On paper though Ladapo is everything we'd want to add to the 18. | | | |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 14:07 - May 31 with 3022 views | Illinoisblue |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 13:49 - May 31 by J2BLUE |
Why do people feel the need to decide a player's fate before they kick a ball for us? I know we're all bored and discussing things which is normal but there seems to be a lot of people who want to decide right now whether he's crap or is going to fire us all the way to the Premier League. Maybe we could just wait and see?
There is a growing element who seem desperate to jump first to write a player or manager off so they can come back and boast about being right. It's really pathetic.
With Ladapo, the jury is out. There's enough there to be optimistic and mildly excited IMO but i'll wait and see how he plays before judging. And not based on his first appearance either. If he has a bad first game there will be someone posting at half time that he's not good enough. If he has a good first game there will be people posting that the striker position is solved and we don't need anyone else.
Most of us on here have seen many players come in on frees who weren't met with much optimism who ended up being great players for the club. We've also seen big money (for us) signings be absolutely crap. It just seems some people will never learn. [Post edited 31 May 2022 13:49]
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I find it’s best to try and ignore most of the comments and analysis until the new players have actually played a few games. Recall on here last year, a few were saying what a great keeper Hladky was and what a great signing it was. Pulled out the stats and YouTube clips and all that jazz. |  |
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 14:18 - May 31 with 2980 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 13:49 - May 31 by J2BLUE |
Why do people feel the need to decide a player's fate before they kick a ball for us? I know we're all bored and discussing things which is normal but there seems to be a lot of people who want to decide right now whether he's crap or is going to fire us all the way to the Premier League. Maybe we could just wait and see?
There is a growing element who seem desperate to jump first to write a player or manager off so they can come back and boast about being right. It's really pathetic.
With Ladapo, the jury is out. There's enough there to be optimistic and mildly excited IMO but i'll wait and see how he plays before judging. And not based on his first appearance either. If he has a bad first game there will be someone posting at half time that he's not good enough. If he has a good first game there will be people posting that the striker position is solved and we don't need anyone else.
Most of us on here have seen many players come in on frees who weren't met with much optimism who ended up being great players for the club. We've also seen big money (for us) signings be absolutely crap. It just seems some people will never learn. [Post edited 31 May 2022 13:49]
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Indeed. I remember lots of people slagging off the signing of Alan Lee.
I remember loads slagging off Aluko, particularly after his first game.
In answer to the OP, no-one's saying ignore the comments out of hand. Just take them with a pinch of salt. I trust people like McKenna, Ashton and the analytics team more than any football supporters. But either way, you never really know until a player's played a few games. And even then, he's a freebie.
In short, don't worry about it. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 14:24 - May 31 with 2930 views | STYG |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 14:18 - May 31 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Indeed. I remember lots of people slagging off the signing of Alan Lee.
I remember loads slagging off Aluko, particularly after his first game.
In answer to the OP, no-one's saying ignore the comments out of hand. Just take them with a pinch of salt. I trust people like McKenna, Ashton and the analytics team more than any football supporters. But either way, you never really know until a player's played a few games. And even then, he's a freebie.
In short, don't worry about it. |
Lee was one. Kuqi was another people felt was beneath what we should be aiming for.
Then the flip side is thinking Chopra would fire us to the Premier League, furthered by him having such a decent debut.
Absolutely pointless speculating on how the players will perform but ultimately we all have opinions and will all do it. | | | |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 14:34 - May 31 with 2887 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
For a more balanced view read this
Whoever posted on twitter seemed to think this supported their suggestion that he's an utter wrongun but I thought it was mostly minor, nothing tonu toward and actualy says he always got his head down and worked
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 15:10 - May 31 with 2763 views | Simonds92 |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 13:43 - May 31 by STYG |
The thing that sticks out here is that Paul Warne, a man I absolutely cannot stand, demands one thing above all else and that is players putting in 100%.
He's been virtually an ever present in three seasons under Warne, largely starting or involved from the bench if not, which just doesn't scan if he's supposedly not working hard enough.
On top of that, we have McKenna and our analytics, the ones used by Manchester United, which will show just how much work Ladapo does in addition to his fit in the striking roles and that rubber stamps the myth that he is lazy.
Half our fans would have kept Bonne and nearly half Norwood if what I'd read is to be believed. Nobody knows how he will do here, under McKenna, in a football first system, closer to home, at the biggest club he's been at (yes I include Palace), in what's likely his last big move at a good age, off the back of four impressive seasons at this level and above.
Given the way he ended there, wanting to leave for one of their hated rivals, I can't help but feel that there may be just a little rewriting of narratives going on. |
Well the analytics team has done wonders for Utd. by the looks of things, especially when you consider how small their budget is. | | | |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 15:26 - May 31 with 2702 views | Guthrum |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 14:34 - May 31 by BlueandTruesince82 |
For a more balanced view read this
Whoever posted on twitter seemed to think this supported their suggestion that he's an utter wrongun but I thought it was mostly minor, nothing tonu toward and actualy says he always got his head down and worked
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The coach's opinion reads pretty positive all round, apart from the decision to go being a mistake which could have been handled a bit better by the player. | |
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 15:31 - May 31 with 2678 views | STYG |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 15:10 - May 31 by Simonds92 |
Well the analytics team has done wonders for Utd. by the looks of things, especially when you consider how small their budget is. |
I dare say they take a far less analytical approach towards the sign off of a player as we might.
The players they are going for are known all across Europe. A lot more will end up with the traditional managers gut feeling, seen him play, know the type of player he is than we will likely be employing where it will largely be about what they offer the system.
How much analytical approach went into signing Ronaldo? Or Pogba? Or Maguire. | | | |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 15:57 - May 31 with 2614 views | Chrisd |
I'm not going to go overboard which is what we seem to do with every new signing. Until Lapado has played a good few games for us in L1 I'm going to withhold my judgement. What he's done in the past doesn't really count, whether that's with Rotherham, Southend, Colchester etc, it's what he does for us that really matters in going forwards and that's where we should assess him. | |
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 15:59 - May 31 with 2596 views | Chrisd |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 14:07 - May 31 by Illinoisblue |
I find it’s best to try and ignore most of the comments and analysis until the new players have actually played a few games. Recall on here last year, a few were saying what a great keeper Hladky was and what a great signing it was. Pulled out the stats and YouTube clips and all that jazz. |
Exactly. Have an uppie Illinoisblue. | |
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 21:04 - May 31 with 2293 views | bluebudgie |
It's just as well social media wasn't around when Sir Alf was signing his team that went on to become Champions of England, most of them were free transfers and journeymen who would have been torn to shreds along with Sir Alf before they even set foot on the hallowed Portman Rd pitch! Sir Alf showed what astute coaching and tactics could do, something I hope Mckenna can repeat |  | | |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 08:36 - Jun 1 with 2055 views | Simonds92 |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 15:31 - May 31 by STYG |
I dare say they take a far less analytical approach towards the sign off of a player as we might.
The players they are going for are known all across Europe. A lot more will end up with the traditional managers gut feeling, seen him play, know the type of player he is than we will likely be employing where it will largely be about what they offer the system.
How much analytical approach went into signing Ronaldo? Or Pogba? Or Maguire. |
Well yes exactly, how good is the analytics team who were used very sparingly and when given the opportunity picked out the likes of Fred, Martial, Dalot, Lidelof & Van Der Beek? | | | |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 10:20 - Jun 1 with 1974 views | DinDjarin |
Bakinson also had an attitude problem.
I wait and make my own mind up with my own two eyes. |  | | |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 10:37 - Jun 1 with 1949 views | jayessess |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 15:26 - May 31 by Guthrum |
The coach's opinion reads pretty positive all round, apart from the decision to go being a mistake which could have been handled a bit better by the player. |
I've very little time for fan evaluations of temperament but this one does raise a few questions.
There's been some suggestion that Ladapo has been recruited as a squad player and that we'll recruit a bigger name striker over the top of him. If he was unhappy in that role at Rotherham, that begs a few other questions. Did we tell him he'd be main man? Is the other forward actually going to be a squad player? Are we intending to use him in another role? |  |
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 11:59 - Jun 1 with 1847 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 10:37 - Jun 1 by jayessess |
I've very little time for fan evaluations of temperament but this one does raise a few questions.
There's been some suggestion that Ladapo has been recruited as a squad player and that we'll recruit a bigger name striker over the top of him. If he was unhappy in that role at Rotherham, that begs a few other questions. Did we tell him he'd be main man? Is the other forward actually going to be a squad player? Are we intending to use him in another role? |
I'm sure every player signs thinking they're going to be the main man - and it's up to them to prove it. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 12:53 - Jun 1 with 1799 views | jayessess |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 11:59 - Jun 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I'm sure every player signs thinking they're going to be the main man - and it's up to them to prove it. |
Most players are going to ask what role the manager has in mind for them before they sign a contract. If it turns out to be wildly out of kilter with reality then, depending on the player, it can create a problem further down the line. | |
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 17:06 - Jun 1 with 1695 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 12:53 - Jun 1 by jayessess |
Most players are going to ask what role the manager has in mind for them before they sign a contract. If it turns out to be wildly out of kilter with reality then, depending on the player, it can create a problem further down the line. |
You seem to be talking about a different point, a lesser point than your main one which was about being first choice.
I think his role in the team is very unlikely to be "wildly out of kilter with reality." | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 14:51 - Jun 2 with 1529 views | jayessess |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 17:06 - Jun 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You seem to be talking about a different point, a lesser point than your main one which was about being first choice.
I think his role in the team is very unlikely to be "wildly out of kilter with reality." |
Connection seems pretty straightforward to me?
Ladapo may have got restless at Rotherham as a squad player. If that was the case, it would presumably be difficult to persuade him to join us in a similar role. | |
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 08:15 - Jun 3 with 1360 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 14:51 - Jun 2 by jayessess |
Connection seems pretty straightforward to me?
Ladapo may have got restless at Rotherham as a squad player. If that was the case, it would presumably be difficult to persuade him to join us in a similar role. |
But my point is no-one joins thinking they'll be a squad player (unless perhaps an old goalkeeper at somewhere like Man Utd).
Ladapo won't have been told he's joining as a squad player and won't be thinking he's a squad player. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 08:40 - Jun 3 with 1313 views | Vic |
Is the answer that it’s something to do with supporting (encouraging) our team, the manager and any players that join us rather than trying to second guess the managers decisions all the time? |  |
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 08:42 - Jun 3 with 1313 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 08:15 - Jun 3 by The_Flashing_Smile |
But my point is no-one joins thinking they'll be a squad player (unless perhaps an old goalkeeper at somewhere like Man Utd).
Ladapo won't have been told he's joining as a squad player and won't be thinking he's a squad player. |
I suspect he's been told like everyone else has that it's about the squad, that there will be certain games that need a certain type of player and that whilst Kenny does rotate he can expect to play a fair amount of games.
Ans whilst players anywhere may not get told we see you as a back up I bet they do get told you're coming in to co.oete with x or this spot etc | |
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| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 08:51 - Jun 3 with 1283 views | Vic |
| Why is it opposition supporters are always wrong about incoming players? on 08:42 - Jun 3 by BlueandTruesince82 |
I suspect he's been told like everyone else has that it's about the squad, that there will be certain games that need a certain type of player and that whilst Kenny does rotate he can expect to play a fair amount of games.
Ans whilst players anywhere may not get told we see you as a back up I bet they do get told you're coming in to co.oete with x or this spot etc |
“suspect he's been told like everyone else has that it's about the squad”
Correction M’Lud - the word is ‘group’ not squad! | |
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