| 433/4231 next season 07:58 - Jun 2 with 1388 views | keanekipper |
Think we will be going to this formation next season, which im pleased about if you look at the top teams its pretty much 4 at the back. I think mckenna just stumbled on the 3 at the back when he came in as it was in place in the games pre his arrival so stuck with it. 3 at the back always strikes me as a short term/stop gap success formation. |  | | |  |
| 433/4231 next season on 08:11 - Jun 2 with 1349 views | StokieBlue |
I'm not convinced that changing a formation which made us very solid and gave us a platform to dominate possession is top priority. Just seems like an ideological change rather than a requirement to be successful.
Who cares what "top teams" play? Most of the better teams in league one played 5 at the back. Then you have the issue that if you go to 4 you lose the effectiveness of the Donacian/Burns combination.
There are more important things to worry about that changing to 4 at the back in my opinion but I guess we will see.
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| 433/4231 next season on 08:18 - Jun 2 with 1330 views | portmanking |
Far from it - I'd argue the 3-4-2-1 or 3-4-1-2 system is fast becoming one of the most popular systems across various levels. | | | |
| 433/4231 next season on 08:24 - Jun 2 with 1303 views | keanekipper |
| 433/4231 next season on 08:18 - Jun 2 by portmanking |
Far from it - I'd argue the 3-4-2-1 or 3-4-1-2 system is fast becoming one of the most popular systems across various levels. |
might be popular but are they successful, the teams who got out of l1 were predominantly 4 at the back teams ( could be wrong on that) i would like to see the amount of teams that have won things this season playing 3 at the back. it always strikes me as a formation used to cover up defensive weakness. | | | |
| 433/4231 next season on 08:40 - Jun 2 with 1255 views | portmanking |
| 433/4231 next season on 08:24 - Jun 2 by keanekipper |
might be popular but are they successful, the teams who got out of l1 were predominantly 4 at the back teams ( could be wrong on that) i would like to see the amount of teams that have won things this season playing 3 at the back. it always strikes me as a formation used to cover up defensive weakness. |
I fail to see how 3-4-1-2 can be considered defensive, when you have 3 covering defenders instead of 4? The wide men/wing backs like Burns have ultra licence to attack and roam, and there's normally only one sitter among the midfielders to interchange with the ball-playing centre halves at times. | | | |
| 433/4231 next season on 09:06 - Jun 2 with 1212 views | keanekipper |
| 433/4231 next season on 08:40 - Jun 2 by portmanking |
I fail to see how 3-4-1-2 can be considered defensive, when you have 3 covering defenders instead of 4? The wide men/wing backs like Burns have ultra licence to attack and roam, and there's normally only one sitter among the midfielders to interchange with the ball-playing centre halves at times. |
i havnt said its defensive, its used to cover up deficiencies in defence, normally in not having confidence in your centre halfs. (see england).
i dont think we should get ahead of ourselves with how we finished the season, mckenna made us a good controlling football team, but we were a pretty blunt instrument in the final third and i dont think that was all down to the strikers, i dont think we create that many chances still. it was a case of stop burns you stop our threat. This is the next stage of the development, as it isnt going to happen overnight, but in my opinion a move away from 3 at the back is a good start. | | | |
| 433/4231 next season on 10:16 - Jun 2 with 1057 views | jayessess |
| 433/4231 next season on 08:24 - Jun 2 by keanekipper |
might be popular but are they successful, the teams who got out of l1 were predominantly 4 at the back teams ( could be wrong on that) i would like to see the amount of teams that have won things this season playing 3 at the back. it always strikes me as a formation used to cover up defensive weakness. |
Wigan, Rotherham and MK Dons all played 3 at the back most of the time. |  |
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| 433/4231 next season on 11:13 - Jun 2 with 981 views | TomTheWriter |
| 433/4231 next season on 08:24 - Jun 2 by keanekipper |
might be popular but are they successful, the teams who got out of l1 were predominantly 4 at the back teams ( could be wrong on that) i would like to see the amount of teams that have won things this season playing 3 at the back. it always strikes me as a formation used to cover up defensive weakness. |
Wigan Athletic - 30/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-4-2; 16/46 -> 3-4-2-1/3-5-2/3-4-1-2
Rotherham United - 46/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-2-1
MK Dons - 44/46 > 3-5-2/3-4-3/3-4-2-1; 2/46 -> 4-2-3-1
Sunderland - 31/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-3-3; 15/46 -> 3-4-2-1/3-5-2
Sheffield Wednesday - 10/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-4-2; 36/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-2-1
Wycombe Wanderers - 19/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-4-2; 27/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-2-1/5-3-2
Forest Green Rovers - 46/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-2-1
Exeter City - 6/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-3-2-1; 40/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-2-1/5-3-2
Bristol Rovers - 32/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-1-4-1; 14/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-2-1
Northampton Town - 37/46 -> 4-2-3-1; 9/46 -> 5-3-2/3-5-2
Port Vale - 1/46 -> 4-4-2; 45/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-1-2/3-4-3
Swindon Town - 27/46 -> 4-4-2/4-2-3-1; 19/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-3/5-3-2
Mansfield Town - 44/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-1-2-1-2; 2/46 -> 5-3-2
Fulham - 46/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-3-3
Bournemouth - 45/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-3-3; 1/46 -> 3-5-2
Huddersfield Town - 17/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-4-2/4-3-3; 29/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-3
Nottingham Forest - 15/46 -> 4-2-3-1; 31/46 -> 5-3-2/3-5-2/3-4-3
Sheffield United - 15/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-4-2; 31/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-2-1
Luton Town - 5/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-3-3; 41/46 -> 3-4-2-1/3-4-1-2/3-5-2/5-3-2
Neither formation is 'dominant' but both have positives and negatives. It's no surprise that Fulham, Bournemouth, Wigan, Swindon are the top goalscorer in there leagues. It's no surprise that Rotherham, Exeter, and Forest are some of the strongest defences.
It depends what you want. 4-2-3-1 makes you more exciting going forward. 3-4-3 makes you resolute at the back. Both have upsides, both have downfalls, its just about finding the right balance. |  |
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| 433/4231 next season on 13:20 - Jun 2 with 898 views | Guthrum |
McKenna has said from the start he doesn't place much emphasis on formations. I think we'll be flexible and adaptable.
For that matter in the latter half of season just gone, Donacien was hardly playing like a CB, spending so much time far up the pitch. Burns was pretty much a winger. For large parts of games, we only had one player staying back. |  |
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| 433/4231 next season on 15:18 - Jun 2 with 840 views | BondiBlue |
| 433/4231 next season on 09:06 - Jun 2 by keanekipper |
i havnt said its defensive, its used to cover up deficiencies in defence, normally in not having confidence in your centre halfs. (see england).
i dont think we should get ahead of ourselves with how we finished the season, mckenna made us a good controlling football team, but we were a pretty blunt instrument in the final third and i dont think that was all down to the strikers, i dont think we create that many chances still. it was a case of stop burns you stop our threat. This is the next stage of the development, as it isnt going to happen overnight, but in my opinion a move away from 3 at the back is a good start. |
This defensive weakness you speak of. It's woolfenden, isn't it? Looks like a world-beater in a three when he doesn't have to man-mark anyone. Put him one-v-one against a joe ironside or sam vokes and we're in trouble. Mckenna (and dyer/mcgreal to be fair) have found the best way of using him. Question is who should you build your formation around? A good defender or a good attacker? Recruiting players who can play a system that gets the best out of people like woolfie who aren't so versatile will be crucial. | |
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| 433/4231 next season on 15:36 - Jun 2 with 813 views | ibbleobble |
Until we get a reliable, consistent left-back, we won’t be playing 4 at the back. | | | |
| 433/4231 next season on 15:51 - Jun 2 with 787 views | PioneerBlue |
| 433/4231 next season on 11:13 - Jun 2 by TomTheWriter |
Wigan Athletic - 30/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-4-2; 16/46 -> 3-4-2-1/3-5-2/3-4-1-2
Rotherham United - 46/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-2-1
MK Dons - 44/46 > 3-5-2/3-4-3/3-4-2-1; 2/46 -> 4-2-3-1
Sunderland - 31/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-3-3; 15/46 -> 3-4-2-1/3-5-2
Sheffield Wednesday - 10/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-4-2; 36/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-2-1
Wycombe Wanderers - 19/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-4-2; 27/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-2-1/5-3-2
Forest Green Rovers - 46/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-2-1
Exeter City - 6/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-3-2-1; 40/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-2-1/5-3-2
Bristol Rovers - 32/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-1-4-1; 14/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-2-1
Northampton Town - 37/46 -> 4-2-3-1; 9/46 -> 5-3-2/3-5-2
Port Vale - 1/46 -> 4-4-2; 45/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-1-2/3-4-3
Swindon Town - 27/46 -> 4-4-2/4-2-3-1; 19/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-3/5-3-2
Mansfield Town - 44/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-1-2-1-2; 2/46 -> 5-3-2
Fulham - 46/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-3-3
Bournemouth - 45/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-3-3; 1/46 -> 3-5-2
Huddersfield Town - 17/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-4-2/4-3-3; 29/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-3
Nottingham Forest - 15/46 -> 4-2-3-1; 31/46 -> 5-3-2/3-5-2/3-4-3
Sheffield United - 15/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-4-2; 31/46 -> 3-5-2/3-4-2-1
Luton Town - 5/46 -> 4-2-3-1/4-3-3; 41/46 -> 3-4-2-1/3-4-1-2/3-5-2/5-3-2
Neither formation is 'dominant' but both have positives and negatives. It's no surprise that Fulham, Bournemouth, Wigan, Swindon are the top goalscorer in there leagues. It's no surprise that Rotherham, Exeter, and Forest are some of the strongest defences.
It depends what you want. 4-2-3-1 makes you more exciting going forward. 3-4-3 makes you resolute at the back. Both have upsides, both have downfalls, its just about finding the right balance. |
I think the 3 is here to stay since it worked well and suited players.
I agree it’s going to be about balance and finding ways of countering and breaking down opposition game by game. Having the option to drop into a 4 in-game or to set up differently is important to accommodate players, find spaces and ask questions of teams.
Ball offers additional midfield options for various formations including 4231 433. Wolf, Burgess and Penny all looked better in back 3 and wing back formations. With a new stronger LB/LWB we may look stronger in a 4 than the season gone.
We need to think about creating and scoring this season. No point having Ladapo if we don’t find ways to feed him, much like we killed Piggot without finding him a partner. At times this season we simply didn’t make the opposition GK produce saves or shoot from range but did manage to control the ball. | |
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| 433/4231 next season on 16:25 - Jun 2 with 758 views | quad |
| 433/4231 next season on 15:36 - Jun 2 by ibbleobble |
Until we get a reliable, consistent left-back, we won’t be playing 4 at the back. |
Dominic Thompson was a reliable, consistent left back wasn't he?
If he wasn't trying to play as a LWB (which he's not attacking enough for), then I'd have thought he would be fine as a LB with 4 at the back. | | | |
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