| A sound investment 08:33 - Jun 19 with 2623 views | DJR |
A few eyebrows (including my own) were raised when just over a year ago a pension fund took us (a football club) over. At the time I thought they were obviously looking to the long term (as pension funds always do), and that they could afford to gamble what to them was a relatively tiny amount compared to the vast size of the pension fund. It now looks like they were a lot more canny than I thought because by demonstrating the vast potential of the club in such a short space of time, it seems to me that they have substantially increased the value of their investment in little over a year, despite the team actually finishing lower in the league than the year before. The people they have put in place (especially Mark Ashton) must take a lot of credit for this. [Post edited 19 Jun 2022 9:04]
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| A sound investment on 10:02 - Jun 19 with 2363 views | Guthrum |
Correct to an extent, in that they would be likely to at least make their money back if selling now.
However, more significant is that by boosting the feeling at the club and so getting more fans involved - buying season tickets, shirts and the like - they have moved it closer to operating at break-even, while also making it an attractive place for better players to want to come. |  |
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| A sound investment on 11:43 - Jun 19 with 2207 views | EdwardStone |
The annoying thing in all this is that M E could have done everything that the Pension Fund is doing and also gained himself a large fortune, or at least not lost quite so much
He really was the Dead Hand on the Tiller.... watching hopelessly as we gently slid into mediocrity |  | | |
| A sound investment on 11:57 - Jun 19 with 2171 views | DJR |
| A sound investment on 10:02 - Jun 19 by Guthrum |
Correct to an extent, in that they would be likely to at least make their money back if selling now.
However, more significant is that by boosting the feeling at the club and so getting more fans involved - buying season tickets, shirts and the like - they have moved it closer to operating at break-even, while also making it an attractive place for better players to want to come. |
Maybe I was over-egging it by referring to substantially increasing the value of their investment, but I don't think that, in a football context, "break even" and "valuation" are two concepts which go hand in hand. Chelsea's most reason accounts show a loss of £145 milllion but have just been sold for £4.25 billion. I think the owners have turned a failing club under Evans into a club with great potential, which with the Ed Sheeran link, would in my view make the club very attractive if put on the market now. | | | |
| A sound investment on 12:22 - Jun 19 with 2078 views | PhilTWTD |
| A sound investment on 11:57 - Jun 19 by DJR |
Maybe I was over-egging it by referring to substantially increasing the value of their investment, but I don't think that, in a football context, "break even" and "valuation" are two concepts which go hand in hand. Chelsea's most reason accounts show a loss of £145 milllion but have just been sold for £4.25 billion. I think the owners have turned a failing club under Evans into a club with great potential, which with the Ed Sheeran link, would in my view make the club very attractive if put on the market now. |
You're right re breaking even, I would guess the loss over the last year has been significantly larger than in previous comparable seasons and will be bigger still if and when we're in the Championship.
If they sold now, I'm sure it would be for a significant loss on what they paid for the club plus the additional funds which have been spent up to now. |  | | |
| A sound investment on 12:25 - Jun 19 with 2075 views | DJR |
| A sound investment on 11:43 - Jun 19 by EdwardStone |
The annoying thing in all this is that M E could have done everything that the Pension Fund is doing and also gained himself a large fortune, or at least not lost quite so much
He really was the Dead Hand on the Tiller.... watching hopelessly as we gently slid into mediocrity |
I remember talking to someone around the time of the Evans' takeover who had some knowledge of him. From what I can recall, I think the plan was to get promoted to the Premier League as quickly as possible so as to enable him to promote and benefit his ticketing business (the official ticket agency for the 2012 Olympics) which he hoped to "sell" to the Premier League. He clearly didn't have a clue because of the people he appointed, but because things didn't work as hoped, the impression I got is that he rather lost interest in it all, not least because these days his sporting ventures appear to be only a fairly minor part of his business empire. [Post edited 19 Jun 2022 12:42]
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| A sound investment on 12:54 - Jun 19 with 1983 views | Veggie |
What makes the OP so sure that the club is worth more than was paid for it? I get that it seems to be run better now, but with that comes a lot of added expense in salaries and investment. Hopefully we will get promotion this season, then real progress will have been made. If not, the shine might start to come off the club a little bit and ticket sales might start to falter. |  | | |
| A sound investment on 13:06 - Jun 19 with 1950 views | Mullet |
| A sound investment on 12:22 - Jun 19 by PhilTWTD |
You're right re breaking even, I would guess the loss over the last year has been significantly larger than in previous comparable seasons and will be bigger still if and when we're in the Championship.
If they sold now, I'm sure it would be for a significant loss on what they paid for the club plus the additional funds which have been spent up to now. |
How long do you think the plan is for Gamechanger? I wonder if they work in a year, five and possibly 10 year blocks at a time. I'd be surprised if the intention is to hold onto us as long/further than a decade as presumably they ultimately want to sell us at the top of our value? |  |
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| A sound investment on 13:15 - Jun 19 with 1911 views | DJR |
| A sound investment on 12:54 - Jun 19 by Veggie |
What makes the OP so sure that the club is worth more than was paid for it? I get that it seems to be run better now, but with that comes a lot of added expense in salaries and investment. Hopefully we will get promotion this season, then real progress will have been made. If not, the shine might start to come off the club a little bit and ticket sales might start to falter. |
I'm not a financial expert so could be completely wrong on all this, but it does strike me that football valuations do not really follow the rules that would apply to other businesses because clubs can be valued at billions of pounds but never make a profit. At the end of the day, it is what people are willing to pay for a club, and it seems to me that we have gone in just over a year from a crumbling club at rock bottom under Evans to a club whose structure and potential are clear for all to see. When coupled with the Ed Sheeran link, we must be much more attractive to potential purchasers now than then, which I think would be reflected in the price they might be willing to pay. Of course, if we languish in Division 1 for several years, things might change, but the potential (28,000 crowds?) will surely remain. | | | |
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| A sound investment on 13:21 - Jun 19 with 1878 views | PhilTWTD |
| A sound investment on 13:06 - Jun 19 by Mullet |
How long do you think the plan is for Gamechanger? I wonder if they work in a year, five and possibly 10 year blocks at a time. I'd be surprised if the intention is to hold onto us as long/further than a decade as presumably they ultimately want to sell us at the top of our value? |
Depends how it goes. If we stay in this division for too much longer they'll probably give it up as a bad move and sell on. Otherwise, the word both on and off the record is that it's a long-term thing, that pension funds have very long time horizons, as Mark Detmer put it in his podcast with Blue Monday-TWTD.
Fifteen years is the longest period I've heard mentioned, but probably within that time they would have sold stakes in the club as it would have to have been successful for them to have stayed involved for as long as that.
“That’s the nice thing about pension funds, their time horizon is very, very long,” Detmer said. “It’s not about trying to come in like certain groups that try to, I hate to say make a quick buck, that’s not a good characterisation, but to try to turn something really quick.
“They’re not at all like that. They’re very much aligned with us that we need to create the building blocks to go up to the Championship and at that point build the club and the support and stadium and everything around it going then to the Premier League.
“They’re aligned with us in that mission and that vision but they have a very, very long time horizon associated with it.”
 Detmer: Pension Fund Very Much Aligned With Our Vision 13th May 2021 15:43New Town co-owner Mark Detmer says one of the advantages of being partnered with a pension fund, such as Arizona’s Public Safety Personnel Retirement System (PSPRS), who own 90 per cent of new Blues owners Gamechanger 20 Ltd, is their “very long time horizon”.  10
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| A sound investment on 13:38 - Jun 19 with 1799 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| A sound investment on 12:25 - Jun 19 by DJR |
I remember talking to someone around the time of the Evans' takeover who had some knowledge of him. From what I can recall, I think the plan was to get promoted to the Premier League as quickly as possible so as to enable him to promote and benefit his ticketing business (the official ticket agency for the 2012 Olympics) which he hoped to "sell" to the Premier League. He clearly didn't have a clue because of the people he appointed, but because things didn't work as hoped, the impression I got is that he rather lost interest in it all, not least because these days his sporting ventures appear to be only a fairly minor part of his business empire. [Post edited 19 Jun 2022 12:42]
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He was more interested towards the end than he was at the beginning, without doubt. He was initially much less involved.
People try to read far too much into him. He simply bought it, hoped to get promoted quickly to make money, the football world changed massively, he didn’t want to commit financial means needed to compete, he then sold to seemingly much better buyers than plenty of others have done in his situation, getting a good deal for himself in doing so. |  | | |
| A sound investment on 17:36 - Jun 19 with 1483 views | tractorboy1978 |
| A sound investment on 11:43 - Jun 19 by EdwardStone |
The annoying thing in all this is that M E could have done everything that the Pension Fund is doing and also gained himself a large fortune, or at least not lost quite so much
He really was the Dead Hand on the Tiller.... watching hopelessly as we gently slid into mediocrity |
There's certain things he could have done - the commercial utilisation of Ed Sheeran was blindingly obvious for years for example.
Generally though, he couldn't. I've never been convinced that Evans has been particularly cash rich - certainly not in the context of operating a football club. The investment in the club over the past year and a bit has been substantial on and off the pitch. The new owners have done so much right and built up so much goodwill but ultimately a lot of that has been bought with money that simply Evans didn't have. That's not defending Evans but we are operating in a different financial stratosphere now. | | | |
| A sound investment on 17:50 - Jun 19 with 1448 views | mutters |
| A sound investment on 17:36 - Jun 19 by tractorboy1978 |
There's certain things he could have done - the commercial utilisation of Ed Sheeran was blindingly obvious for years for example.
Generally though, he couldn't. I've never been convinced that Evans has been particularly cash rich - certainly not in the context of operating a football club. The investment in the club over the past year and a bit has been substantial on and off the pitch. The new owners have done so much right and built up so much goodwill but ultimately a lot of that has been bought with money that simply Evans didn't have. That's not defending Evans but we are operating in a different financial stratosphere now. |
I might be wrong but I thought the initial contact with Ed Sheeran was instigated whilst Evans still owned the club. The deal with him was announced pretty quick after the sale of the club was announced not leaving a lot of time for the new management team to organise. |  |
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| A sound investment on 18:53 - Jun 19 with 1309 views | PhilTWTD |
| A sound investment on 17:50 - Jun 19 by mutters |
I might be wrong but I thought the initial contact with Ed Sheeran was instigated whilst Evans still owned the club. The deal with him was announced pretty quick after the sale of the club was announced not leaving a lot of time for the new management team to organise. |
Yes, was happening before the takeover. | | | |
| A sound investment on 19:01 - Jun 19 with 1289 views | monytowbray |
The difference is marketing and understanding their audience.
The Sheeran stuff is an example. Any chance to go viral is a goldmine for brand awareness, yet many businesses will either be too dinosaur to see the opportunity or will faff so long to act they miss the boat.
Asking what your customers want goes a long way too in both initial sentiment and long term satisfaction.
Evans was largely someone who made some money once and then had too much money to fail after, whilst using that power to do corrupt things (legally if not ethically at the least) to make money after.
The idea of doing something well to profit is foreign to many successful people, who will ignore luck/privilege/bad faith and hail themselves a genius. Musk and Branson are good examples of this. [Post edited 19 Jun 2022 20:31]
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| A sound investment on 20:47 - Jun 19 with 1089 views | HighgateBlue |
| A sound investment on 17:50 - Jun 19 by mutters |
I might be wrong but I thought the initial contact with Ed Sheeran was instigated whilst Evans still owned the club. The deal with him was announced pretty quick after the sale of the club was announced not leaving a lot of time for the new management team to organise. |
Absolutely, you're quite right, but that doesn't fit the narrative that Evans did nothing right and the new lot can do nothing wrong. Sheeran has been seen as a positive thing, therefore it cannot have been instigated whilst Evans was in charge.
Evans was of course ultimately a failure and the new lot may well be a huge success, and it's positive so far despite the lack of movement in league position. But let's at least all base out opinions on true facts. |  | | |
| A sound investment on 20:58 - Jun 19 with 1044 views | monytowbray |
| A sound investment on 20:47 - Jun 19 by HighgateBlue |
Absolutely, you're quite right, but that doesn't fit the narrative that Evans did nothing right and the new lot can do nothing wrong. Sheeran has been seen as a positive thing, therefore it cannot have been instigated whilst Evans was in charge.
Evans was of course ultimately a failure and the new lot may well be a huge success, and it's positive so far despite the lack of movement in league position. But let's at least all base out opinions on true facts. |
I knew people in the back room, particularly around marketing the club, in the Evans days. I won't say much more as people know who I know. I heard stories I won't repeat detailed here for the sake of being told in confidence, but the following is what I concluded from those stories.
A lot of what ME said and what he did never quite added up, and that's my conclusion even from largely positive opinions of him as a boss and/or person at face value from a distance (he had virtually nothing to do with day-to-day bar signing off money).
Once he realised he was stuck with a failed cash cow project post-Jewel he did very little to turn it around and let it stagnate. Almost like someone buying an old factory to demolish and build flats, discovering it needs more investment than originally planned, and from there on doing the bare minimum to meet legal standards of building/land but leaving it largely to slowly decay.
I believe capitalising on the Sheeran link was proposed internally and ignored for years as I expect it costs money up front to do those partnerships. Granted it pays for itself quickly but Evans hoped for a decade some luck would result in someone turning water to wine, when in reality he should have just bought the wine to begin with. [Post edited 19 Jun 2022 21:02]
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| A sound investment on 10:55 - Jun 20 with 665 views | southnorfolkblue |
| A sound investment on 12:25 - Jun 19 by DJR |
I remember talking to someone around the time of the Evans' takeover who had some knowledge of him. From what I can recall, I think the plan was to get promoted to the Premier League as quickly as possible so as to enable him to promote and benefit his ticketing business (the official ticket agency for the 2012 Olympics) which he hoped to "sell" to the Premier League. He clearly didn't have a clue because of the people he appointed, but because things didn't work as hoped, the impression I got is that he rather lost interest in it all, not least because these days his sporting ventures appear to be only a fairly minor part of his business empire. [Post edited 19 Jun 2022 12:42]
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He was also sold the line that a couple of million quid investment would secure promotion to the Premier League, which is consistent with your post. Keane blew his cash and I think that he lost the will to put substantially more cash in. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but he should have bailed out at that point | |
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