| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? 16:30 - Jul 9 with 9023 views | unbelievablue |
Regardless of your political persuasion. Please show your working.
e.g. I am considering who might be the least threat to a Labour challenge at the next election, as well as "the lesser of all evils" scenario until then, but am as of yet undecided. Whereas you, a staunch Tory, might have a favourite for the opposite reason.
Go. |  |
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 22:49 - Jul 10 with 1112 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 22:12 - Jul 10 by jeera |
Seems so.
Still doesn't realise there are 3 tabs deliberately introduced so people can choose what content they want to view.
Even extras like ignore users, ignore threads...
The possibilities are endless. Well, not endless, but there to be employed.
Or there's dropping by for a bit of pointless sniping. Always an option. [Post edited 10 Jul 2022 22:13]
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I didn't take what he said as sniping and I was being jovial with the guy. |  |
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 23:12 - Jul 10 with 1080 views | GlasgowBlue |
Another candidate has entered the race.
Has anyone ever heard of this bloke before? |  |
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 07:06 - Jul 11 with 1020 views | DanTheMan |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 23:12 - Jul 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Another candidate has entered the race.
Has anyone ever heard of this bloke before? |
I fully enjoy the inspirational picture they went with. |  |
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 07:41 - Jul 11 with 1008 views | WeWereZombies |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 23:12 - Jul 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Another candidate has entered the race.
Has anyone ever heard of this bloke before? |
I would have thought he would have chosen a different picture than the snap of him just after he had been told that the twenty five grand he had invested in a mate of Hancock's Bitcoin investment scheme couldn't be traced... |  |
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 07:45 - Jul 11 with 1004 views | unbelievablue |
This feels a bit like The Apprentice. A bunch of incompetent buffoons with barely relevant experience producing shoddy campaign work (all the while looking for opportunities to stab each other in the back), desperately vying for the affection of a bunch of nobs.
Tory or not, not one candidate fills me with any kind of hope whatsoever. | |
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 09:52 - Jul 11 with 936 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 18:42 - Jul 10 by Lord_Lucan |
I didn’t see any comments suggesting we chase the lowest corporation tax in the world and I don’t think we should be a tax haven. My point though is, if you raise corporation tax too high then larger companies will possibly not invest and almost definitely will avoid it.
If you keep it at a reasonable level then you have more chance of companies paying it. The big boys don’t employ extremely expensive tax advisors just for a laugh and the massive multi nationals don’t sit in Eire for the lucky heather.
Next year corporation tax is rising from 19% to anything from 19% to 25% depending on profit. I guarantee you that big corp plus the multiples will seek to avoid it, cut staff and raise prices.
What about the life and blood of the nation? Small companies, builders and the man in the corner shop? My company is a tin pot company but we employ people and pay them a fair wage. This year we moved to larger warehouses and we are opening a new small distribution and retail outlet in the midlands in September.
I’m 2023 we planned to expand the new midlands outlet (double it) and 2024 we planned to increase all that by 50%
However - why should I work like a bastard and get penalised for investment? I will either shelve the plans and consolidate or I’ll split the company into three - and others will do similar. |
More important than ever to have a well balanced approach as you describe LL.
Big boys (Group's with a turnover of EUR750m+) will struggle to mitigate rate increases soon since there is very likely to be minimum domestic taxes almost everywhere of 15%. The OECD has done a decent job getting 100 odd jurisdictions signed up to that.
Very big boys (turnover of EUR20bn) will be paying tax in a completely different way to how they have done historically. In simple terms group wide profits will be allocated to consumer jurisdicitions. [Post edited 11 Jul 2022 9:53]
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:20 - Jul 11 with 912 views | GunnsAirkick |
As a Labour supporter and taking into account the chance of who will realistically get the job, I'd say Sunak.
I think the final two will be Sunak vs. Truss (I'm not sure Mordaunt will get over the line being a bit of an unknown compared to the other two).
I think Sunak will be seen as a backstabber by those who still support Johnson but he's also A) been fined (perhaps harshly, but even so) and more importantly B) is stinking rich, which somewhat makes him appear very out of touch from the start.
Also, saying he's going to fix an economy he's overseen for the last three years seems an odd message to deliver? |  | | |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:20 - Jul 11 with 909 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 09:52 - Jul 11 by PrideOfTheEast |
More important than ever to have a well balanced approach as you describe LL.
Big boys (Group's with a turnover of EUR750m+) will struggle to mitigate rate increases soon since there is very likely to be minimum domestic taxes almost everywhere of 15%. The OECD has done a decent job getting 100 odd jurisdictions signed up to that.
Very big boys (turnover of EUR20bn) will be paying tax in a completely different way to how they have done historically. In simple terms group wide profits will be allocated to consumer jurisdicitions. [Post edited 11 Jul 2022 9:53]
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You’re a top accountant so just as I sometimes struggle with what my accountant is advising me I don’t completely understand fully what you are saying.
Are you suggesting that the big boys will split the existing companies to regional newco’s
So - rather than TESCO PLC you will have Tesco Ipswich Ltd, Tesco Diss Ltd and so on - basically a larger thing than my idea of splitting my company into three but on a bigger scale
Or - have I misunderstood what you are saying. | |
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:29 - Jul 11 with 892 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:20 - Jul 11 by Lord_Lucan |
You’re a top accountant so just as I sometimes struggle with what my accountant is advising me I don’t completely understand fully what you are saying.
Are you suggesting that the big boys will split the existing companies to regional newco’s
So - rather than TESCO PLC you will have Tesco Ipswich Ltd, Tesco Diss Ltd and so on - basically a larger thing than my idea of splitting my company into three but on a bigger scale
Or - have I misunderstood what you are saying. |
Take Amazon as an example. Whether they have a company or not in all of the jurisdictions in which they sell will effectively become irrelevant to where they pay tax.
So to simplify, say they sold in 10 countries worldwide. A chunk (not all) of their global profits would be allocated to those 10 locations based on a formula of revenue by jurisdiction. It's not as straightforward as that as you can imagine but for high margin tech groups like them (think it's the top 100 in the world or so) they will be paying (generally) more tax in many more locations.
Further almost everywhere is expected to introduce a minimum domestic tax rate of 15%. So Ireland as an example will be increasing its rate from 12.5% shortly. | | | |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:35 - Jul 11 with 880 views | Darth_Koont |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 11:02 - Jul 10 by Lord_Lucan |
Not sure how you can gain investment into UK with high takes tbh and if you raise tax you raise tax avoidance. If tax was at a sensible rate then companies would just pay it.
Eire offer a lower tax rate than UK (around 15%????) and offers multinationals like google, Amazon and eBay about 2.5% I believe - everyone just pays it.
Whack it to 25% and everyone will avoid it - or go bust.
Personally I’d put it at 18% |
Our tax take (and resulting spending) is pathetically low for a developed nation.
We went full on neoliberal for the past 30-odd years. And are now paying the price with our politics, society and the economy all struggling to keep up.
We need to grow the f*** up. Because if businesses can't pay more tax on profits and can't pay decent wages either then they're not really a business are they? That's more of a subsidised scam where society picks up the tab.
We need to be a lot more honest about why our economy, let alone society, is lagging behind higher tax countries.
[Post edited 11 Jul 2022 10:46]
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:37 - Jul 11 with 875 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:29 - Jul 11 by PrideOfTheEast |
Take Amazon as an example. Whether they have a company or not in all of the jurisdictions in which they sell will effectively become irrelevant to where they pay tax.
So to simplify, say they sold in 10 countries worldwide. A chunk (not all) of their global profits would be allocated to those 10 locations based on a formula of revenue by jurisdiction. It's not as straightforward as that as you can imagine but for high margin tech groups like them (think it's the top 100 in the world or so) they will be paying (generally) more tax in many more locations.
Further almost everywhere is expected to introduce a minimum domestic tax rate of 15%. So Ireland as an example will be increasing its rate from 12.5% shortly. |
But in Ireland the likes of Google and EBay only pay about 2.5% don’t they under some sort of special deal.
Talking of Amazon,
Amazons UK retail arm, which has 38 stores, made pre-tax profits of £38.2m last year to September However, They reduced their tax bill by nearly £10 million after an increase in the share price triggered a £30.3m share-based, tax-deductible payout to employees.
So they paid £790,000 in tax for the year, despite an increase in sales and profit | |
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:38 - Jul 11 with 875 views | WeWereZombies |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:29 - Jul 11 by PrideOfTheEast |
Take Amazon as an example. Whether they have a company or not in all of the jurisdictions in which they sell will effectively become irrelevant to where they pay tax.
So to simplify, say they sold in 10 countries worldwide. A chunk (not all) of their global profits would be allocated to those 10 locations based on a formula of revenue by jurisdiction. It's not as straightforward as that as you can imagine but for high margin tech groups like them (think it's the top 100 in the world or so) they will be paying (generally) more tax in many more locations.
Further almost everywhere is expected to introduce a minimum domestic tax rate of 15%. So Ireland as an example will be increasing its rate from 12.5% shortly. |
The argument for taxation rates rising globally is much like the case for vaccination against Covid, either we make the protection available to all or we all suffer as the gaps in coverage allow what is harmful to us all to spread out of control. | |
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:40 - Jul 11 with 868 views | DanTheMan |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:37 - Jul 11 by Lord_Lucan |
But in Ireland the likes of Google and EBay only pay about 2.5% don’t they under some sort of special deal.
Talking of Amazon,
Amazons UK retail arm, which has 38 stores, made pre-tax profits of £38.2m last year to September However, They reduced their tax bill by nearly £10 million after an increase in the share price triggered a £30.3m share-based, tax-deductible payout to employees.
So they paid £790,000 in tax for the year, despite an increase in sales and profit |
I believe that's essentially the sort of thing they've agreed to get rid of. By making it a minimum across the board, you're stopping a race to the bottom.
A little more info here - https://www.oecd.org/tax/international-community-strikes-a-ground-breaking-tax-d | |
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:40 - Jul 11 with 866 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:38 - Jul 11 by WeWereZombies |
The argument for taxation rates rising globally is much like the case for vaccination against Covid, either we make the protection available to all or we all suffer as the gaps in coverage allow what is harmful to us all to spread out of control. |
Over 135 jurisdictions have signed up to it. It's groundbreaking. | | | |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:43 - Jul 11 with 855 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:37 - Jul 11 by Lord_Lucan |
But in Ireland the likes of Google and EBay only pay about 2.5% don’t they under some sort of special deal.
Talking of Amazon,
Amazons UK retail arm, which has 38 stores, made pre-tax profits of £38.2m last year to September However, They reduced their tax bill by nearly £10 million after an increase in the share price triggered a £30.3m share-based, tax-deductible payout to employees.
So they paid £790,000 in tax for the year, despite an increase in sales and profit |
All of those deals have either gone or will cease. | | | |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:45 - Jul 11 with 842 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:40 - Jul 11 by PrideOfTheEast |
Over 135 jurisdictions have signed up to it. It's groundbreaking. |
What about the likes of Bahrain, Bermuda, IOM, cayman etc etc? | |
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 11:00 - Jul 11 with 804 views | mylittletown |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:35 - Jul 11 by Darth_Koont |
Our tax take (and resulting spending) is pathetically low for a developed nation.
We went full on neoliberal for the past 30-odd years. And are now paying the price with our politics, society and the economy all struggling to keep up.
We need to grow the f*** up. Because if businesses can't pay more tax on profits and can't pay decent wages either then they're not really a business are they? That's more of a subsidised scam where society picks up the tab.
We need to be a lot more honest about why our economy, let alone society, is lagging behind higher tax countries.
[Post edited 11 Jul 2022 10:46]
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Whilst I sort of agree, the irony is that, in the last 50 years, the highest tax take , as a percentage of GDP, (the normal measure), was during the early mid years of the Thatcher administration.
(It got very close during the financial crisis of 2008-2011, but that was as much to do with GDP growth stalling. |  | | |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 11:03 - Jul 11 with 799 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:45 - Jul 11 by Lord_Lucan |
What about the likes of Bahrain, Bermuda, IOM, cayman etc etc? |
Yep - signed up. | | | |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 11:04 - Jul 11 with 799 views | thecheek |
I reckon that Sunak is nailed on to get to the final 2 but will then lose in a head to head against whoever he's up against
Seems to be the most popular choice with Tory MPs but not so sure about its members... |  | | |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 11:15 - Jul 11 with 771 views | Darth_Koont |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 11:00 - Jul 11 by mylittletown |
Whilst I sort of agree, the irony is that, in the last 50 years, the highest tax take , as a percentage of GDP, (the normal measure), was during the early mid years of the Thatcher administration.
(It got very close during the financial crisis of 2008-2011, but that was as much to do with GDP growth stalling. |
Of course. We had a higher tax system back then and we were surfing an upswing in the global economy.
It's largely been dismantled since then along with the spending on important stuff for future growth. | |
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 11:16 - Jul 11 with 764 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 11:03 - Jul 11 by PrideOfTheEast |
Yep - signed up. |
Wow - that’s massive.
Any loopholes - and what will happen about the really big players like google etc? | |
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 11:21 - Jul 11 with 751 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 11:16 - Jul 11 by Lord_Lucan |
Wow - that’s massive.
Any loopholes - and what will happen about the really big players like google etc? |
Ultimately they'll pay more tax in more places - the rules have been specifically designed to address west coast digital groups for which the current tax system just didn't work.
The minimum 15% tax part basically says if you don't pay it in Bahrain (say for example they opted out), you'd pay it elsewhere. So no way out. | | | |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 12:47 - Jul 11 with 686 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 10:35 - Jul 11 by Darth_Koont |
Our tax take (and resulting spending) is pathetically low for a developed nation.
We went full on neoliberal for the past 30-odd years. And are now paying the price with our politics, society and the economy all struggling to keep up.
We need to grow the f*** up. Because if businesses can't pay more tax on profits and can't pay decent wages either then they're not really a business are they? That's more of a subsidised scam where society picks up the tab.
We need to be a lot more honest about why our economy, let alone society, is lagging behind higher tax countries.
[Post edited 11 Jul 2022 10:46]
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Come on Darthy
That graph isn't a list of current GDP - it's GDP growth over the past seven years so the results are skewed as growth depends on where you started from - it's also pretty obvious that the person who posted it researched every possible span of years to come up with the worst data for UK
Anyone can find any conclusion they want if they want to and then pass off this information in a way so that some people get hoodwinked.
*******For current GDP as a whole we are slap bang in the middle of those countries - and for growth from this present day to the most previous data we are higher than every single one of those countries listed. [Post edited 11 Jul 2022 13:02]
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 13:14 - Jul 11 with 628 views | Darth_Koont |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 12:47 - Jul 11 by Lord_Lucan |
Come on Darthy
That graph isn't a list of current GDP - it's GDP growth over the past seven years so the results are skewed as growth depends on where you started from - it's also pretty obvious that the person who posted it researched every possible span of years to come up with the worst data for UK
Anyone can find any conclusion they want if they want to and then pass off this information in a way so that some people get hoodwinked.
*******For current GDP as a whole we are slap bang in the middle of those countries - and for growth from this present day to the most previous data we are higher than every single one of those countries listed. [Post edited 11 Jul 2022 13:02]
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Yes. It’s growth and we’ve been told that low tax stimulates growth.
Clearly not when compared to our neighbours. Although I’d go so far to say that low tax = growth should be seen rather more as a fairytale for a developed economy of our size.
Much more to do with low productivity and a shonky unbalanced economy. Neither of which have been helped by pitiful investment. [Post edited 11 Jul 2022 13:16]
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| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 13:50 - Jul 11 with 684 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Who is your preferred next Tory leader (thus PM), and why? on 13:14 - Jul 11 by Darth_Koont |
Yes. It’s growth and we’ve been told that low tax stimulates growth.
Clearly not when compared to our neighbours. Although I’d go so far to say that low tax = growth should be seen rather more as a fairytale for a developed economy of our size.
Much more to do with low productivity and a shonky unbalanced economy. Neither of which have been helped by pitiful investment. [Post edited 11 Jul 2022 13:16]
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Yet our current growth from now to last recorded data is higher than the average of the EU
However - What I was getting at was that the tweeter researched an exact time scale in order to "prove" that his theory is correct but
He also used percentage of growth which is plainly dependent on many things including how dire things were in the first place - and the figures increasing by a large percentage doesn't mean things aren't still dire.
If he had picked a different time scale (including the very latest figures) he would have actually "proved" that he is wrong.
Politicians of all colours do this all the time
Personally I think it's all a bit disingenuous.
It may be popular opinion that I am a drunken idiot but this is a forum, not real life, and I'm a bit long in the tooth to be swayed by dodgy data. | |
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