| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London 17:07 - Jul 22 with 6497 views | giant_stow |
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/22/london-mayor-jeremy-corbyn-would-dis
I don't know whether this columnist has just made this up for the sake his opinions, or whether its been seriously mentioned elsewhere. Would be an intriguing platform for him to take the fight to Starmer though and probably make a lot of Londoners very happy (being honest). |  |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 09:54 - Jul 23 with 852 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 09:27 - Jul 23 by lowhouseblue |
my answer to that is i don't know. all his life has been spent in a bit of the political spectrum where jewish conspiracy nonsense is common - i don't know how much of that he has absorbed. he certainly seems to have become desensitised to those theories to the extent that he finds it hard to spot them or reject them.
my charge against corbyn, which i've posted many times before, is that he comes from a bit of politics where anti-semitism is common and if people agree with him on issues such as being anti-US, anti-west, anti-nato etc then he is happy to turn a blind eye to it. it is proven constantly by the people he has associated with - if it's politically convenient he won't see anti-semitism. sadly we know that's not uncommon. |
If the same standards were applied to us all then I suspect we would all, whatever our race, be classed as racists. Racism in one way or another is deeply entrenched in the societies in which we are all raised. To survive our upbringings as individual islands of purity would be quite remarkable. Labels should be applied sparingly. |  |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 09:58 - Jul 23 with 839 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 09:30 - Jul 23 by BloomBlue |
Ah the old approach of 'it's OK for Corbyn's Labour to be racist against Jewish people because Boris Tory party is racist against Muslims" - talk about a race to the bottom.
Corbyn supported that graffiti artist when his work was going to be scrubbed off the wall even though the artist admitted it was deliberately antisemitic, Corbyn basically arguing it was an attack on free speech. If that mural had glorified slavery against black people would Corbyn defend that as free speech. No correctly he wouldn't defend it as that would be racist, so why was it OK to be defended as free speech as it was antisemitic?
Corbyn's problem is he hates Israel and that hatred has manifested into hatred of the Jewish community in the UK, hence the mask slips occasionally with the mural and not kicking Livingstone out of the Labour as examples.
It's the same with Trump supporters who defend Trump against the Capitol riot in that he never told people to directly attack the building, but we all know his words were deliberately spoken in such a way to encourage it. Unfortunately too many have been brainwashed by momentum to defend/excuse Corbyn in the same way. Trump and Corbyn supporters are a mirror image.
When it comes to the Jewish community, Corbyn was, is and will always be a racist |
Where have I remotely suggested ANY racism is OK?
The rest is Tory/right-fuelled nonsense. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:03 - Jul 23 with 828 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 09:45 - Jul 23 by solomon |
Where have I pointed out that you are racist? You seem to have drawn this conclusion all on your own, you and no others have not been named in any post. I await your response with clear evidence you have personally been called a racist. |
You've edited it now, and I can't remember your original words.
But what's left is: "Some will still defend this to the last, it says all you need to know about their true motives and beliefs" right after I defended it.
And I didn't say you'd pointed out that I'm racist. I said "You've basically accused me of being a racist." | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:06 - Jul 23 with 828 views | solomon |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 09:43 - Jul 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I broadly agree with the sentiment. However, despite I think it being agreed on a different thread that legitimate incidents of antisemitism should not go unanswered and also that such incidents within the Labour Party were grossly overstated, people on here continue to withdraw to their fingers in the ears entrenched starting points again and again.
Corbyn is not a racist, Corbyn has failings (as do we all). The issue of antisemitism (by 0.07 percent of individuals) within Labour was massively over played for political ends. It worked. I do not believe individuals on the board are antisemites. I fail to understand at the end of the day why any of this would be controversial.
I reserve my right to disagree with Solomon, but think that in reality we seem to largely agree once the barriers are down. |
Your continued stance on the 0.07% figure really worries me, as I’ve said before it’s zero tolerance for all forms of discrimination, there is no threshold level for which things can be “overplayed” please please stop doing this as it’s a hurtful to some members of this board. |  | | |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:06 - Jul 23 with 817 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 09:53 - Jul 23 by Darth_Koont |
Upvoted. Well said.
And just to clarify before it's jumped on. The figure of 0.07% is successful complaints, I believe. If we're looking at those within Labour who hold one or more antisemitic opinions that jumps up to around 6% which is reflected across society and the political spectrum except for the far-right where it massively increases.
Jews and non-Jews alike are absolutely right to be concerned with the ever-present danger of antisemitism and especially the rise in attacks and incidents. |
It's interesting that it jumps up to around 6% across society and the political spectrum except for the far-right where it massively increases, and yet there are these constant attacks on Corbyn specifically. It's almost like there's more at play. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:07 - Jul 23 with 803 views | Darth_Koont |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 00:10 - Jul 23 by solomon |
You make this point extremely well. As I’ve said before he’s handled this issue very poorly and the blame lies with him and him alone. I don’t for one moment believe he’s a racist but he has failed to deal with those who clearly are. |
I think you should read the Forde report. As much as anything it gives an insight into how the complaints process is set up and how it's "handled" by Labour HQ and not the leader's office.
Indeed the EHRC censured Corbyn for getting involved to expedite complaints as it's meant to be its own legislated process. Indeed it's the failings of the HQ process that exposed Labour to the EHRC's inquiry and main findings.
But upvoted for debunking the lazy line that Corbyn is a racist. That nonsense has taken pride of place in the weaponization of the issue. |  |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:07 - Jul 23 with 810 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 09:27 - Jul 23 by lowhouseblue |
my answer to that is i don't know. all his life has been spent in a bit of the political spectrum where jewish conspiracy nonsense is common - i don't know how much of that he has absorbed. he certainly seems to have become desensitised to those theories to the extent that he finds it hard to spot them or reject them.
my charge against corbyn, which i've posted many times before, is that he comes from a bit of politics where anti-semitism is common and if people agree with him on issues such as being anti-US, anti-west, anti-nato etc then he is happy to turn a blind eye to it. it is proven constantly by the people he has associated with - if it's politically convenient he won't see anti-semitism. sadly we know that's not uncommon. |
Found this interesting...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_antisemitism
Puts some flesh on the bones on the historic association with money lending and thus banking. Bits on Marx too. | |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:10 - Jul 23 with 801 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:06 - Jul 23 by solomon |
Your continued stance on the 0.07% figure really worries me, as I’ve said before it’s zero tolerance for all forms of discrimination, there is no threshold level for which things can be “overplayed” please please stop doing this as it’s a hurtful to some members of this board. |
That's not the point. Even 0.07% is still wrong - the point is why is such a disproportionate amount of attention being focused at Labour/Corbyn and not in other places? It's all wrong. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:11 - Jul 23 with 797 views | lowhouseblue |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 09:45 - Jul 23 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed it is. Is that why you have to lie about it and misrepresent me? |
i don't really want to go through it all again - gb on this thread has pointed to examples of your posting. people know what you've posted - obsessively is in no way an exaggeration - they will make up their own minds. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:15 - Jul 23 with 770 views | Darth_Koont |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:10 - Jul 23 by The_Flashing_Smile |
That's not the point. Even 0.07% is still wrong - the point is why is such a disproportionate amount of attention being focused at Labour/Corbyn and not in other places? It's all wrong. |
The Forde report says it: Because it was weaponised.
Corbyn only became a target when he became a player who could move the dial on the various stuff the right-wing, the Labour right and the ultra pro-Israel lobby want to keep as it is. | |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:20 - Jul 23 with 751 views | Darth_Koont |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:11 - Jul 23 by lowhouseblue |
i don't really want to go through it all again - gb on this thread has pointed to examples of your posting. people know what you've posted - obsessively is in no way an exaggeration - they will make up their own minds. |
You and GB have been spouting smeary nonsense about this and misrepresenting my views from day one. Everybody knows that too.
With regard to people making up their own minds, I will say that there are very few people on this site who know what they're talking about, such is the lack of factual coverage of the issue in the mainstream.
People don't even seem to know the basics. | |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:20 - Jul 23 with 765 views | solomon |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:03 - Jul 23 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You've edited it now, and I can't remember your original words.
But what's left is: "Some will still defend this to the last, it says all you need to know about their true motives and beliefs" right after I defended it.
And I didn't say you'd pointed out that I'm racist. I said "You've basically accused me of being a racist." |
No where has this happened. I edited on post as their came out as thief do to my poor spelling, so at no point have you been named in any way. | | | |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:23 - Jul 23 with 736 views | Darth_Koont |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:20 - Jul 23 by solomon |
No where has this happened. I edited on post as their came out as thief do to my poor spelling, so at no point have you been named in any way. |
I must admit, I'd like to know who you're talking about and what these "true motives and beliefs" are meant to be. [Post edited 23 Jul 2022 10:25]
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:24 - Jul 23 with 739 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:20 - Jul 23 by solomon |
No where has this happened. I edited on post as their came out as thief do to my poor spelling, so at no point have you been named in any way. |
I didn't say I was named, you said that. But you said "anyone who defends" something, right after I defended it. I've set out why I think you BASICALLY called me a racist. If not, what are the "true motives and beliefs" you were referring to? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:25 - Jul 23 with 737 views | solomon |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:10 - Jul 23 by The_Flashing_Smile |
That's not the point. Even 0.07% is still wrong - the point is why is such a disproportionate amount of attention being focused at Labour/Corbyn and not in other places? It's all wrong. |
It’s not disproportionate, 0.07 is still 0.07 too much, we don’t have differing levels of condemnation for differing levels of discrimination.
It’s pointless arguing this with you as your mind seems set on this. I like you BDS I always have, we are so close on so many issues but just like DK I cannot let one fibre of my being agree on this most personal of issues and I feel it’s best we ignore one another from now on. I wish health happiness to you your ,family friends and loved ones. | | | |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:29 - Jul 23 with 724 views | lowhouseblue |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:15 - Jul 23 by Darth_Koont |
The Forde report says it: Because it was weaponised.
Corbyn only became a target when he became a player who could move the dial on the various stuff the right-wing, the Labour right and the ultra pro-Israel lobby want to keep as it is. |
and so it continues. endlessly and obsessively. and since your addition of weaponised by israel now completes my full house, i'll leave you to it. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:33 - Jul 23 with 699 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:25 - Jul 23 by solomon |
It’s not disproportionate, 0.07 is still 0.07 too much, we don’t have differing levels of condemnation for differing levels of discrimination.
It’s pointless arguing this with you as your mind seems set on this. I like you BDS I always have, we are so close on so many issues but just like DK I cannot let one fibre of my being agree on this most personal of issues and I feel it’s best we ignore one another from now on. I wish health happiness to you your ,family friends and loved ones. |
And you're missing the point again. I've quite clearly said all racism is wrong, even 0.07%. But you don't (or shouldn't) chase after the 0.07% whilst ignoring much worse stuff, and at a higher percentage, in other places. That suggests an agenda against a particular individual or organisation. It's all wrong and should be condemned equally.
I don't want to ignore you, I think you're a good poster. But it's fine if you want to ignore me and I wish you, your family and loved ones all the best too. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:40 - Jul 23 with 676 views | Darth_Koont |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:29 - Jul 23 by lowhouseblue |
and so it continues. endlessly and obsessively. and since your addition of weaponised by israel now completes my full house, i'll leave you to it. |
Gmpf. You can't even help yourself from taking the very worst faith reading, can you?
Smear. Misrepresent. Accuse. Repeat.
Same time tomorrow? | |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:43 - Jul 23 with 674 views | solomon |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:33 - Jul 23 by The_Flashing_Smile |
And you're missing the point again. I've quite clearly said all racism is wrong, even 0.07%. But you don't (or shouldn't) chase after the 0.07% whilst ignoring much worse stuff, and at a higher percentage, in other places. That suggests an agenda against a particular individual or organisation. It's all wrong and should be condemned equally.
I don't want to ignore you, I think you're a good poster. But it's fine if you want to ignore me and I wish you, your family and loved ones all the best too. |
Apologies I was replying to BDS and mistakenly on your thread, please accept my apologies for this error. Posting whilst in a moving vehicle is never a good idea (not driving before you ask)
I personally cannot continue with the constant back and forth on this issue, it’s very hard for some of us and it’s starting to feel a very difficult space to occupy and be within, for that reason it’s seems entirely sensible to ignore some posters to ensure there is some level of board harmony. | | | |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:59 - Jul 23 with 634 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:43 - Jul 23 by solomon |
Apologies I was replying to BDS and mistakenly on your thread, please accept my apologies for this error. Posting whilst in a moving vehicle is never a good idea (not driving before you ask)
I personally cannot continue with the constant back and forth on this issue, it’s very hard for some of us and it’s starting to feel a very difficult space to occupy and be within, for that reason it’s seems entirely sensible to ignore some posters to ensure there is some level of board harmony. |
I certainly don't want this place to be a difficult space to occupy for anyone (well except perhaps racists and bigots). However, if someone's accused or racism and the evidence is flimsy as hell, I'll reserve my right to defend them. If you don't agree with that approach then perhaps ignoring me is the best idea. I will always defend truth and evidence, it's just in my DNA. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 11:05 - Jul 23 with 626 views | solomon |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 08:53 - Jul 23 by Funge |
You have my sympathy, Solomon. I'm in broad agreement.
I'm sick of the main protagonist on this thread; not much more I can do other than ignore them; they really shouldn't be welcome on here.
Peace, my friend. |
Thank you, your kind words are very much appreciated by all who are affected. | | | |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 11:12 - Jul 23 with 594 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:06 - Jul 23 by solomon |
Your continued stance on the 0.07% figure really worries me, as I’ve said before it’s zero tolerance for all forms of discrimination, there is no threshold level for which things can be “overplayed” please please stop doing this as it’s a hurtful to some members of this board. |
I am not sure what the correct word would be rather than overplayed but it is one that needs to express that the standard is not applied equally. | |
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| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 11:16 - Jul 23 with 574 views | Churchman |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:07 - Jul 23 by Darth_Koont |
I think you should read the Forde report. As much as anything it gives an insight into how the complaints process is set up and how it's "handled" by Labour HQ and not the leader's office.
Indeed the EHRC censured Corbyn for getting involved to expedite complaints as it's meant to be its own legislated process. Indeed it's the failings of the HQ process that exposed Labour to the EHRC's inquiry and main findings.
But upvoted for debunking the lazy line that Corbyn is a racist. That nonsense has taken pride of place in the weaponization of the issue. |
To broaden this a little, while I have not properly read the Forde report I have skimmed through it. The general impression I got was of a party of factions. You are in or you are out, you are this, you are that. Sort of understandable given the spectrum of views it encompasses, but how the party bound itself together wasn’t right. There was internal fighting as well as fighting the opposition. Some people felt threatened because of their gender, race etc. The report accepts that the WhatsApp messages might be out of context but given what was written I don’t think any context could justify some of them in my eyes.
If people like Margaret Hodge felt threatened in the way they did, then they were threatened. I don’t care if it’s 0.07% or 30%. It’s not good enough. Accepting any percentage is unacceptable. The accountability for this lay with the leadership. At the top of that sat Corbin. He is accountable, regardless of his personal beliefs.
I read a book the other week by the greatest fast bowler of all time - Michael Holding. It’s called Why We Kneel, How We Rise. It’s a fascinating, uncomfortable read on racism from his perspective. I did not agree with all he said or some of the conclusions, but it was a thought provoking eye opener for me. I strongly recommend it.
Back to the Future (good title for a film, that), there is two long years before the tories are thrown out. That’s two years for Starmer and the Labour Party leadership to get their house fully in order and to make the Party both better organised and truly inclusive. To do that it has to remove people who are bigoted in any way on the basis of evidence, such as WhatsApp. End of. Those with marginal previous need a warning of behave or you’re history. If they do that, there will be nothing to stop them winning a landslide. |  | | |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 11:19 - Jul 23 with 568 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:59 - Jul 23 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I certainly don't want this place to be a difficult space to occupy for anyone (well except perhaps racists and bigots). However, if someone's accused or racism and the evidence is flimsy as hell, I'll reserve my right to defend them. If you don't agree with that approach then perhaps ignoring me is the best idea. I will always defend truth and evidence, it's just in my DNA. |
I wonder why posters downplaying racist murals might make him uncomfortable…
What I can’t understand is, for those that defend him to the hilt, given the complete Sh1t show of his “leadership” people still have faith in him today, and that he’d have any gumption to enact any of his manifesto. |  | | |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 11:21 - Jul 23 with 563 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Musings on Corbyn as a possible candidate for Mayer of London on 10:43 - Jul 23 by solomon |
Apologies I was replying to BDS and mistakenly on your thread, please accept my apologies for this error. Posting whilst in a moving vehicle is never a good idea (not driving before you ask)
I personally cannot continue with the constant back and forth on this issue, it’s very hard for some of us and it’s starting to feel a very difficult space to occupy and be within, for that reason it’s seems entirely sensible to ignore some posters to ensure there is some level of board harmony. |
Oh....just seen this.
I have largely been leaving the subject alone to. I imagine if we discussed it over a drink we would find that we pretty much agree. All the best. | |
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