| Andre Dozzell 11:42 - Aug 23 with 5668 views | Churchman |
Thinking about youth players and how we perceive them, I had a look at views on Andre Dozzell on the QPR site.
When he left he was one of the few players with any value. Sadly, not the value he first showed when he broke through at ITFC, I thought he looked tremendous until his injury.
He made 22 appearances no goals last season for QPR and two this plus three as sub. Their view of him, when you can find one is very marmite - excellent or rubbish, nothing in between.
Obviously Downes has raced ahead, but then he always looked a good bet for a top level career. Dozzell? At 23 it looks like Championship level for him from what I’ve read.
This is not a leading question, but the hue and cry over Simpson in particular, do we over rate our yoof players? |  | | |  |
| Andre Dozzell on 19:31 - Aug 23 with 620 views | Coastalblue |
| Andre Dozzell on 13:21 - Aug 23 by Churchman |
Interesting view by Moyes on young players and Downes in particular:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-ham-boss-david-m
I quote:
‘The things I’ve seen of him, he needs to do better and we’re already [working at that] but we’ll get him a game when we can. All the players have to earn it and I have to find a way of winning most of the games.’
“If it takes me putting the better players out to win, well I want to win. I’m not putting the boys out just to lose and say ‘I’m giving them a game.’ I want to win the games.”
Personally, I think Moyes is right in this approach. It’s up to players to work at making the grade, whether they are youth players or brought in. |
Was having a conversation about this last night, the Hammers have some big problems in the dressing room and it's largely down to an England player, there's quite a split apparently and Moyes is losing some of them. |  |
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| Andre Dozzell on 20:01 - Aug 23 with 585 views | Churchman |
| Andre Dozzell on 19:31 - Aug 23 by Coastalblue |
Was having a conversation about this last night, the Hammers have some big problems in the dressing room and it's largely down to an England player, there's quite a split apparently and Moyes is losing some of them. |
That’s really interesting. They’ve started the season poorly too - though it’s very early doors yet. | | | |
| Andre Dozzell on 07:14 - Aug 24 with 503 views | HighgateBlue |
| Andre Dozzell on 11:47 - Aug 23 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
I think every team over rates their youth players tbh. But we do have some very good ones.
Andre was very highly rated here and with England. My mate who supports QPR says he's clearly a great passer but in terms of impacting a game, is pretty useless and goes missing far too often.
Liam Gibbs is doing well at Norwich.
Downes did well at Swansea, now in the prem.
Our hit rate is pretty good i reckon. |
I agree that our hit rate at producing them is good. Our hit rate at managing them correctly so that they have a big impact for us is pretty poor. The last few years in particular have shown that. I’m really disappointed about Simpson, I must say. |  | | |
| Andre Dozzell on 07:27 - Aug 24 with 501 views | Churchman |
| Andre Dozzell on 07:14 - Aug 24 by HighgateBlue |
I agree that our hit rate at producing them is good. Our hit rate at managing them correctly so that they have a big impact for us is pretty poor. The last few years in particular have shown that. I’m really disappointed about Simpson, I must say. |
Our hit rate at producing players that go on to have a professional career maybe good, but players who can do it at a higher level?
Mings and Cresswell. They were brought in and developed. Downes - yes. Dozzell - the jury is still out a bit on him. Ok he’s with a Championship club so let’s say yes on him. Simpson - who knows. But producing players for Barrow, MKD and Colchester is good for them but pointless for us.
Robson once said (paraphrase) if you employ third division players you’ll finish up in the third division. I guess what I’m trying to say is that if we are to invest in an academy (and I think we should), I think the club needs to look at what it is, what it’s for and how it can be developed to produce better than what we’ve had in some years. A sort of reset.
Included within that is infrastructure, schools, links, booting Norwich out of our area by offering something better. Everything.
The way are owners are going about things I’ve absolutely no doubt this is all being looked at. | | | |
| Andre Dozzell on 09:18 - Aug 24 with 464 views | itfcsuth |
| Andre Dozzell on 17:04 - Aug 23 by Radlett_blue |
Indeed, with the PL hoovering up our best academy prospects, I do wonder whether it justifies its keep. Of course, you have to have a robust player scouting & development programme to replace that as you can't just keep buying ready made players. The success of the Brentford strategy is interesting, but it would take time to set up something similar. |
The model of Brentford has clearly had success.
I think with the capability of the bigger clubs, they know where they are in the food chain and can come snooping and snatch talent from the smaller clubs.
We haven't really produced enough real quality consistently, whether things change moving forward with the new academy manager I don't know. [Post edited 24 Aug 2022 9:18]
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| Andre Dozzell on 09:32 - Aug 24 with 445 views | Radlett_blue |
| Andre Dozzell on 07:27 - Aug 24 by Churchman |
Our hit rate at producing players that go on to have a professional career maybe good, but players who can do it at a higher level?
Mings and Cresswell. They were brought in and developed. Downes - yes. Dozzell - the jury is still out a bit on him. Ok he’s with a Championship club so let’s say yes on him. Simpson - who knows. But producing players for Barrow, MKD and Colchester is good for them but pointless for us.
Robson once said (paraphrase) if you employ third division players you’ll finish up in the third division. I guess what I’m trying to say is that if we are to invest in an academy (and I think we should), I think the club needs to look at what it is, what it’s for and how it can be developed to produce better than what we’ve had in some years. A sort of reset.
Included within that is infrastructure, schools, links, booting Norwich out of our area by offering something better. Everything.
The way are owners are going about things I’ve absolutely no doubt this is all being looked at. |
Agree pretty much will all your points, but the conclusion that Town should invest more in the academy seems flawed. Given that PL clubs can cherry pick our best prospects for a pittance (and that our friends down the road in Norfolk are Cat 1) I would say investing more in the academy is irrational. As you say, we produce plenty of lower league players, but players of that calibre are not valuable in financial terms & won'[t help Town back to the Championship (which, realistically, is where we belong). |  |
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| It's his in-depth.... on 09:36 - Aug 24 with 443 views | NthQldITFC |
| It's his in-depth.... on 16:02 - Aug 23 by Bloots |
...knowledge of all things Norwich, rather than any grammatical slips that make it obvious.
He only started posting on here when they signed Gibbs, he only posted regularly during Cooks reign and then it was only to slag us off.
He constantly pipes up whenever Norwich are mentioned reminding us how great they are and has never said anything positive about us.
Bleedin' weirdo. |
Being a nervous Town-obsessed little budgie is perhaps understandable, but taking the username of a filthy Tory is quite another. |  |
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| Andre Dozzell on 09:37 - Aug 24 with 442 views | Radlett_blue |
| Andre Dozzell on 09:18 - Aug 24 by itfcsuth |
The model of Brentford has clearly had success.
I think with the capability of the bigger clubs, they know where they are in the food chain and can come snooping and snatch talent from the smaller clubs.
We haven't really produced enough real quality consistently, whether things change moving forward with the new academy manager I don't know. [Post edited 24 Aug 2022 9:18]
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Whatever McKenna might say, I doubt he's really interested in the Academy unless it is producing players ready made to go into Town's first team. In his opinion, it isn't, hence the loaning out of Ndaba & Bagott. He'll be 100% focussed on getting Town promoted this season as he knows that if he doesn't, he'll probably be looking for a new job in the summer.
Impossible to judge if the introduction of Dean Wright will make any difference. | |
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| Andre Dozzell on 09:55 - Aug 24 with 426 views | itfcsuth |
| Andre Dozzell on 09:37 - Aug 24 by Radlett_blue |
Whatever McKenna might say, I doubt he's really interested in the Academy unless it is producing players ready made to go into Town's first team. In his opinion, it isn't, hence the loaning out of Ndaba & Bagott. He'll be 100% focussed on getting Town promoted this season as he knows that if he doesn't, he'll probably be looking for a new job in the summer.
Impossible to judge if the introduction of Dean Wright will make any difference. |
I think the game has changed so much now, managers don't have time on their side to allow for academy players to come in and let them develop, they need to be producing results and performances immediately - I don't like it, but it's the way the industry is.
In our position, our aim is to get out of this division, as soon as possible, we need a ready made squad right now to do so - and we have that, a really good squad, but it doesn't have the space for Ndaba, Baggott, Humphreys, El Mizouni to go in and develop on the job - hence they are at other clubs playing minutes and developing.
I think that is the best model right now, develop at other clubs until they are ready made. | | | |
| Andre Dozzell on 13:12 - Aug 24 with 365 views | Sharkey |
| Andre Dozzell on 09:55 - Aug 24 by itfcsuth |
I think the game has changed so much now, managers don't have time on their side to allow for academy players to come in and let them develop, they need to be producing results and performances immediately - I don't like it, but it's the way the industry is.
In our position, our aim is to get out of this division, as soon as possible, we need a ready made squad right now to do so - and we have that, a really good squad, but it doesn't have the space for Ndaba, Baggott, Humphreys, El Mizouni to go in and develop on the job - hence they are at other clubs playing minutes and developing.
I think that is the best model right now, develop at other clubs until they are ready made. |
Generally of course that's right - and it's a lot easier for an Exeter, say, to play their own young players than it is for Town, where the need for success NOW is so much more pressing.
On the other hand, in principle it's never been easier to bring in young players; with 5 subs allowed, there should be at least one young player on the bench so that at 2-0 up you can give him game time. |  | | |
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