| McKenna first season …. 17:49 - Feb 15 with 6692 views | ArnieM |
Whilst we’re all disappointed with how the team have fallen away yet again, I think we need to try and stand back a little and see the whole picture (as cliched as that sounds).
The fact is whilst McKenna is a highly rated coach, he is a completely novice manager, in his first ever managerial job at any level. He’s on a hugely steep, learning “ curve”, in his first job in the 3rd tier of the game, a level of football he also has absolutely NO experience of.
So why are we expecting him to come into a big club like ours, and hit the ground running with a
(practically), brand new squad, and gain promotion at the first attempt? A tall order for most experienced managers surely, let alone a rookie?
He’s background is one of playing a short career at a high level, and then coaching at two of the top 5 Premier League Clubs, where he’s worked with squads of elite players, where rotation was / is the norm. He’s hardly likely to abandon what he knows is he?
I think he deserves at least a season’s free hit to get his feet and get to truly understand the League One culture. I don’t think the squad has even finished evolving yet. I also feel that because he analyses the game to such a depth and reflects on things , I’m sure he will adapt his approach, or at least talk about things with his colleagues / friends (I’m thinking the ex Man Utd players he’s friends with). Don’t forget this is a coach that went around the world experiencing different football cultures and coaching styles. He’s one for the future, not a one season suck it and see, option. As we’ve often said ( even though I’m prone to forgetting this myself in the heat of the moment), “ Rome wasn’t built in a day”. Nor is Ipswich under the new owners, and I’m sure whilst they’d like promotion asap, achieving that in McKenna’s first season here, might not have been “ expected”, but more hoped for.
We go again…… |  |
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| McKenna first season …. on 14:33 - Feb 16 with 631 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| McKenna first season …. on 14:27 - Feb 16 by jayessess |
Quite a long list of big teams who didn't take very long to bounce back up.
Very short list of big teams that spent so long down here without even a play-off appearance. |
I'm not sure what a play off appearance has to do with it if it ultimately didn't result in promotion. Just another unnecessary caveat because the point itself is struggling.
And again, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with McKenna. He looks likely to at least get a play off place in his first full season, so if that's the measure you want to apply then he's doing fine. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| McKenna first season …. on 14:36 - Feb 16 with 607 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| McKenna first season …. on 14:17 - Feb 16 by jayessess |
Paul Cook came in, did poorly, replaced all the players, continued to do poorly. What was there to be patient with?
If Kieran McKenna had won 4 league games in his first 22, he'd be long gone by now. |
The thing is I WAS patient. My signature says trust the process, which is from that time. Before that it was 'patience is a virtue'. I'm probably the most patient supporter on here and have received dog's abuse for it.
Frimmers couldn't be more wrong if he tried. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| McKenna first season …. on 14:39 - Feb 16 with 590 views | jayessess |
| McKenna first season …. on 14:33 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I'm not sure what a play off appearance has to do with it if it ultimately didn't result in promotion. Just another unnecessary caveat because the point itself is struggling.
And again, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with McKenna. He looks likely to at least get a play off place in his first full season, so if that's the measure you want to apply then he's doing fine. |
Not really a point about McKenna (who I'm happy with), just about the club in general finding it hard to do something that's proven quite easy for a lot of teams.
I remain baffled by what's happened to us over the 3 seasons prior to this one. It shouldn't really be possible to have our revenues and finish mid table year after year, certainly not without having gone bust or got a points deduction. |  |
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| McKenna first season …. on 14:43 - Feb 16 with 581 views | Herbivore |
| McKenna first season …. on 14:39 - Feb 16 by jayessess |
Not really a point about McKenna (who I'm happy with), just about the club in general finding it hard to do something that's proven quite easy for a lot of teams.
I remain baffled by what's happened to us over the 3 seasons prior to this one. It shouldn't really be possible to have our revenues and finish mid table year after year, certainly not without having gone bust or got a points deduction. |
Indeed. People talk about this being a tough league to get out of but plenty of sides manage it at the first or second go, and most sides of our stature don't hang around here very long unless they've also had major off-field dramas to contend with. We don't fall into that category as we were still well funded relative to our rivals under Evans and Gamechanger coming in has seen crazy levels of investment for League 1. |  |
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| McKenna first season …. on 14:51 - Feb 16 with 562 views | jayessess |
| McKenna first season …. on 14:43 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
Indeed. People talk about this being a tough league to get out of but plenty of sides manage it at the first or second go, and most sides of our stature don't hang around here very long unless they've also had major off-field dramas to contend with. We don't fall into that category as we were still well funded relative to our rivals under Evans and Gamechanger coming in has seen crazy levels of investment for League 1. |
I can see that teams get stuck in a league despite their resources. You don't need very many things to go wrong to finish outside the top 2 of a division.
11th-9th-11th? Just shouldn't really be possible when 9 out of 10 clubs in your division play in single-tier stadiums with portaloos and sheds. | |
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| McKenna first season …. on 14:55 - Feb 16 with 558 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| McKenna first season …. on 14:30 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
One comparable side in 20 years, Dollers. Apologies that I didn't immediately call them to mind, you see when it's such a rarity there's not exactly a plethora of examples to draw on. In fact there was only one. That's in contrast to the many, many examples of comparable sides who have got out of this pissing league within 3 years. |
It's not one though.
Portsmouth - 8 seasons (including a stint in League 2).
Coventry - 7 seasons (including a stint in League 2).
Sheffield United - 6 seasons.
Sunderland - 4 seasons.
So that's 4 on the same or worse than us.
Then we have Bolton, Forest, Leeds and Charlton (twice) all just 1 more season than us (if we were to go up this year, which is still possible).
The only way you can get to one club in 20 years is if you throw in loads of caveats.
[Post edited 16 Feb 2023 15:02]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| McKenna first season …. on 15:01 - Feb 16 with 547 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| McKenna first season …. on 14:39 - Feb 16 by jayessess |
Not really a point about McKenna (who I'm happy with), just about the club in general finding it hard to do something that's proven quite easy for a lot of teams.
I remain baffled by what's happened to us over the 3 seasons prior to this one. It shouldn't really be possible to have our revenues and finish mid table year after year, certainly not without having gone bust or got a points deduction. |
It's proven quite difficult for a lot of teams as well.
Look I agree we should've done better than we have, no argument there. But we're not the only ones. We had an owner who ran things on a shoestring and made poor appointments (ultimately). You get no argument from me on that score.
But I reiterate I'm not sure why this is anything to do with McKenna. We've been run poorly as a club for years and we'll take a while to turn it around. I don't think lumping McKenna (or the new owners) in with that history is helpful. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| McKenna first season …. on 15:11 - Feb 16 with 536 views | Herbivore |
| McKenna first season …. on 14:55 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's not one though.
Portsmouth - 8 seasons (including a stint in League 2).
Coventry - 7 seasons (including a stint in League 2).
Sheffield United - 6 seasons.
Sunderland - 4 seasons.
So that's 4 on the same or worse than us.
Then we have Bolton, Forest, Leeds and Charlton (twice) all just 1 more season than us (if we were to go up this year, which is still possible).
The only way you can get to one club in 20 years is if you throw in loads of caveats.
[Post edited 16 Feb 2023 15:02]
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Pompey almost went bust, Coventry didn't even have a ground and likewise went into administration. Not remotely comparable to our situation. We have three months left to try and match Sunderland, fingers crossed we manage it, but even if we do it's only Sheffield United who are remotely comparable who have taken longer to get out of this division. | |
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| McKenna first season …. on 15:13 - Feb 16 with 532 views | Herbivore |
| McKenna first season …. on 15:01 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's proven quite difficult for a lot of teams as well.
Look I agree we should've done better than we have, no argument there. But we're not the only ones. We had an owner who ran things on a shoestring and made poor appointments (ultimately). You get no argument from me on that score.
But I reiterate I'm not sure why this is anything to do with McKenna. We've been run poorly as a club for years and we'll take a while to turn it around. I don't think lumping McKenna (or the new owners) in with that history is helpful. |
Even under Evans we outbid Championship sides to sign Norwood (yay!) and (sadly) kept hold of Alan Judge when there was Championship interest in him. We were poorly funded by Evans as a Championship sides, but not as a League 1 side. And as has been pointed out, it is very unusual for teams of our size to languish at this level for as long as we have. I'm not sure why you're struggling to grasp that. | |
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| McKenna first season …. on 15:16 - Feb 16 with 529 views | positivity |
| McKenna first season …. on 14:51 - Feb 16 by jayessess |
I can see that teams get stuck in a league despite their resources. You don't need very many things to go wrong to finish outside the top 2 of a division.
11th-9th-11th? Just shouldn't really be possible when 9 out of 10 clubs in your division play in single-tier stadiums with portaloos and sheds. |
listening to the blue monday podcast, pointing out that we've not really spent to get out of league one.
by that, they were saying, we've not really bought in players like smith at sheff wed, with no sell-on value and no likelihood of success at the higher level. we've bought younger payers with higher ceilings.
if it works it's good planning, if it doesn't it's putting the horse before the cart |  |
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| McKenna first season …. on 15:20 - Feb 16 with 526 views | itfcjoe |
| McKenna first season …. on 15:01 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's proven quite difficult for a lot of teams as well.
Look I agree we should've done better than we have, no argument there. But we're not the only ones. We had an owner who ran things on a shoestring and made poor appointments (ultimately). You get no argument from me on that score.
But I reiterate I'm not sure why this is anything to do with McKenna. We've been run poorly as a club for years and we'll take a while to turn it around. I don't think lumping McKenna (or the new owners) in with that history is helpful. |
The 'shoestring' Evans ran Ipswich on was losing £5-6m a year......those sort of numbers are unheard of in this league for 80% of the clubs in it. This isn't the Championship |  |
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| McKenna first season …. on 15:20 - Feb 16 with 516 views | FrimleyBlue |
| McKenna first season …. on 14:15 - Feb 16 by BiGDonnie |
STFU Dimley.
I'll reiterate the fact that no one, absolutely fookin no one cares what you think.
Hope this helps. |
Lol bless you |  |
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| McKenna first season …. on 15:22 - Feb 16 with 519 views | leitrimblue |
| McKenna first season …. on 14:15 - Feb 16 by BiGDonnie |
STFU Dimley.
I'll reiterate the fact that no one, absolutely fookin no one cares what you think.
Hope this helps. |
Feck um Frimmers. I'd rather listen to you then this moron tiny Donnie |  | | |
| McKenna first season …. on 15:26 - Feb 16 with 513 views | BiGDonnie |
| McKenna first season …. on 15:22 - Feb 16 by leitrimblue |
Feck um Frimmers. I'd rather listen to you then this moron tiny Donnie |
This hurt more than you thought it would... |  |
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| McKenna first season …. on 15:29 - Feb 16 with 499 views | itfcjoe |
| McKenna first season …. on 15:11 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
Pompey almost went bust, Coventry didn't even have a ground and likewise went into administration. Not remotely comparable to our situation. We have three months left to try and match Sunderland, fingers crossed we manage it, but even if we do it's only Sheffield United who are remotely comparable who have taken longer to get out of this division. |
In Sheff U's first 4 seasons they came 3rd, 5th, 7th and 5th so made a good fist of getting back up but just didn't get over the line. In their first season down they got 90 points and lost in the PO finals on penalties
We've so far got 66*, 69 and 70 points and not even been in play off contention at the business end of season | |
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| McKenna first season …. on 15:30 - Feb 16 with 495 views | leitrimblue |
| McKenna first season …. on 15:26 - Feb 16 by BiGDonnie |
This hurt more than you thought it would... |
Feck, sorry, sure yer big enough to take it though. I also never considered the possibility that you are possibly just Makin/frimmers using another login and just arguing with himself | | | |
| McKenna first season …. on 15:32 - Feb 16 with 483 views | BiGDonnie |
| McKenna first season …. on 15:30 - Feb 16 by leitrimblue |
Feck, sorry, sure yer big enough to take it though. I also never considered the possibility that you are possibly just Makin/frimmers using another login and just arguing with himself |
This board ain't big enough for two Dimleys. | |
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| McKenna first season …. on 15:37 - Feb 16 with 461 views | farkenhell |
| McKenna first season …. on 13:43 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"They were a mess though."
Why do people always put caveats into this point? You were proved wrong. You couldn't think of one, farkenhell gave you one (the same one that was my first thought too) and then you dismiss them with "They were a mess though."
Even if you'd asked "except those who were a mess" it wouldn't be a valid caveat. We weren't a mess under Evans?!
Sorry but no, your general point doesn't stand. It's been proven there have been other teams who stayed down as long or longer than us (and a few only slightly less as long so far).
Not really sure of the point of this anyway. We've stayed down a similar amount of time as some comparable clubs, we've also had a big takeover in that time and massive changes from the underfunded Evans years. A rookie manager will take time to turn this ship around (which has been carp and on a downward spiral for years) and any idea that he should have done it already, or that this year (his first full season in management) is his last chance, is ludicrous to me. |
Point of order FS, sadly my days of giving anyone "one" are long gone - Herbie or anyone else! | | | |
| McKenna first season …. on 15:46 - Feb 16 with 449 views | FrimleyBlue |
| McKenna first season …. on 14:17 - Feb 16 by jayessess |
Paul Cook came in, did poorly, replaced all the players, continued to do poorly. What was there to be patient with?
If Kieran McKenna had won 4 league games in his first 22, he'd be long gone by now. |
I agree Jayes. And I get why.
My point is that whilst KM doesn't need any defending. Let's be honest it's a bad run at present.
But. I've seen some use the state of the club and that it's a new project as some form of defence anyway.. imo that's incorrect to do as regardless of PCs record.. he actually did come into a new project etc and if the recent results are to be ignored due to the 'new club new project stuff' then really the results under PC should have been ignored for longer than 4 months of a new season.
I know what I'm trying to say but I don't think I'm explaining it very well tbh.. | |
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| McKenna first season …. on 16:09 - Feb 16 with 410 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| McKenna first season …. on 15:11 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
Pompey almost went bust, Coventry didn't even have a ground and likewise went into administration. Not remotely comparable to our situation. We have three months left to try and match Sunderland, fingers crossed we manage it, but even if we do it's only Sheffield United who are remotely comparable who have taken longer to get out of this division. |
You came into this discussion saying "which clubs of similar size have taken AS LONG". Now you realise there are a few of a similar length of time you've changed it to "longer than". Or added caveats about finances.
With every reply you move the goalposts. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| McKenna first season …. on 16:13 - Feb 16 with 402 views | Herbivore |
| McKenna first season …. on 16:09 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You came into this discussion saying "which clubs of similar size have taken AS LONG". Now you realise there are a few of a similar length of time you've changed it to "longer than". Or added caveats about finances.
With every reply you move the goalposts. |
I acknowledged Sunderland in my first post as having been down here as long as us, and we've established now that the only other one is Sheffield United. That's out of numerous sides who have temporarily wound up at this level. Glad to see that during my absence you've not become less hard work. [Post edited 16 Feb 2023 16:14]
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| McKenna first season …. on 16:18 - Feb 16 with 391 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| McKenna first season …. on 15:13 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
Even under Evans we outbid Championship sides to sign Norwood (yay!) and (sadly) kept hold of Alan Judge when there was Championship interest in him. We were poorly funded by Evans as a Championship sides, but not as a League 1 side. And as has been pointed out, it is very unusual for teams of our size to languish at this level for as long as we have. I'm not sure why you're struggling to grasp that. |
It's not unusual though. I've listed 8 clubs of a comparable size which have been down a similar length of time, or longer.
3 teams much longer (2 of which with financial issues).
1 team the same as us so far. Not sure why you refuse to count them.
And 4 teams who got back just 1 year quicker than we have so far.
I mean, if you want to paint the picture in the bleakest way possible, fill your boots. But the reality is there's several who have struggled to get back quickly and have spent a few years turning things around. I don't think we're an outlier or massively different to them.
And I reiterate I don't know why this is in a thread about McKenna's abilities. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| McKenna first season …. on 16:20 - Feb 16 with 385 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| McKenna first season …. on 15:20 - Feb 16 by itfcjoe |
The 'shoestring' Evans ran Ipswich on was losing £5-6m a year......those sort of numbers are unheard of in this league for 80% of the clubs in it. This isn't the Championship |
I wasn't referring to this league, more that we've been run poorly for many years and it'll take a while to turn it around. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| McKenna first season …. on 16:22 - Feb 16 with 379 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| McKenna first season …. on 16:13 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
I acknowledged Sunderland in my first post as having been down here as long as us, and we've established now that the only other one is Sheffield United. That's out of numerous sides who have temporarily wound up at this level. Glad to see that during my absence you've not become less hard work. [Post edited 16 Feb 2023 16:14]
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Likewise. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| McKenna first season …. on 16:24 - Feb 16 with 376 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| McKenna first season …. on 15:46 - Feb 16 by FrimleyBlue |
I agree Jayes. And I get why.
My point is that whilst KM doesn't need any defending. Let's be honest it's a bad run at present.
But. I've seen some use the state of the club and that it's a new project as some form of defence anyway.. imo that's incorrect to do as regardless of PCs record.. he actually did come into a new project etc and if the recent results are to be ignored due to the 'new club new project stuff' then really the results under PC should have been ignored for longer than 4 months of a new season.
I know what I'm trying to say but I don't think I'm explaining it very well tbh.. |
No response to you getting it totally wrong calling me out for lack of patience with the previous manager then? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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