| McKenna first season …. 17:49 - Feb 15 with 6695 views | ArnieM |
Whilst we’re all disappointed with how the team have fallen away yet again, I think we need to try and stand back a little and see the whole picture (as cliched as that sounds).
The fact is whilst McKenna is a highly rated coach, he is a completely novice manager, in his first ever managerial job at any level. He’s on a hugely steep, learning “ curve”, in his first job in the 3rd tier of the game, a level of football he also has absolutely NO experience of.
So why are we expecting him to come into a big club like ours, and hit the ground running with a
(practically), brand new squad, and gain promotion at the first attempt? A tall order for most experienced managers surely, let alone a rookie?
He’s background is one of playing a short career at a high level, and then coaching at two of the top 5 Premier League Clubs, where he’s worked with squads of elite players, where rotation was / is the norm. He’s hardly likely to abandon what he knows is he?
I think he deserves at least a season’s free hit to get his feet and get to truly understand the League One culture. I don’t think the squad has even finished evolving yet. I also feel that because he analyses the game to such a depth and reflects on things , I’m sure he will adapt his approach, or at least talk about things with his colleagues / friends (I’m thinking the ex Man Utd players he’s friends with). Don’t forget this is a coach that went around the world experiencing different football cultures and coaching styles. He’s one for the future, not a one season suck it and see, option. As we’ve often said ( even though I’m prone to forgetting this myself in the heat of the moment), “ Rome wasn’t built in a day”. Nor is Ipswich under the new owners, and I’m sure whilst they’d like promotion asap, achieving that in McKenna’s first season here, might not have been “ expected”, but more hoped for.
We go again…… |  |
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| McKenna first season …. on 23:34 - Feb 15 with 1009 views | TheMoralMajority |
All these Paul Cook comparisons are worthless.
They are entirely missing the point that PC was not Gamechanger's man. KMac is.
Also, all this talk of 'the game has changed a lot and managers don't get as long' as if that is, in some way, a good thing? Staggering. [Post edited 15 Feb 2023 23:35]
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| McKenna first season …. on 23:47 - Feb 15 with 991 views | Mckenna1263 |
All very well but if he is incapable of winning games and promotion all that potential counts for nothing. I'm sure that the boardroom of Game changer will at least be thinking about it. |  | | |
| McKenna first season …. on 23:52 - Feb 15 with 986 views | TheMoralMajority |
| McKenna first season …. on 23:47 - Feb 15 by Mckenna1263 |
All very well but if he is incapable of winning games and promotion all that potential counts for nothing. I'm sure that the boardroom of Game changer will at least be thinking about it. |
Is he incapable? We don't know yet because unless I missed the news that the 45 points currently available have been cancelled then nothing has been decided. Not even autos. Not even the championship.
Have I seen anything recently to suggest to me that we are going to have a sudden reversal in fortunes? No. But, then, that's the funny thing about form. It can turn on a dime and it can happen to anyone. [Post edited 15 Feb 2023 23:53]
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| McKenna first season …. on 03:35 - Feb 16 with 949 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| McKenna first season …. on 18:44 - Feb 15 by Herbivore |
Sunderland aside, which clubs of similar size have taken as long to get their house in order and get out of this awful league? Can't think of any, other than those who went into administration. And even Sunderland got out in their fourth season at this level. |
Basically none of them, the only comparable ‘big’ clubs who have taken as long as we have to get back out of this league are Sunderland and Sheffield United. Sunderland ended up going up in their fourth season and Sheffield United had troubled the playoffs several times by now
Sheffield Weds’ latest stint will almost certainly be over after 2 seasons now too, to add to the below
I don't hate Cook like I did Lambert by C_HealyIsAPleasure 4 Oct 2021 9:20We’re certainly making harder work of it than most though
Looking at the big clubs that have come down to here in the last 20 or so years:
Man City, Leicester, Norwich, Wolves and Blackburn were all promoted at the first attempt
Sheffield Weds (1st time around) and Southampton did it second time around
Forest, Leeds and Charlton (twice) did it at the third go, all having made the playoffs beforehand. Leeds would have gone up automatically first time around had they not been deducted 15 points
Sunderland are on their 4th attempt but have made the playoffs twice, and currently sit second
Sheffield United are the outliers taking 6 seasons, but again did playoffs 3 times beforehand including their first 2 seasons
Portsmouth, Bolton and Coventry I think are somewhat different cases, given they were all basically bankrupt when they came down
So looking at like for like cases, if we don’t go up this season we’ll have taken longer than everyone bar Sunderland and Sheffield United, and we’re already behind the curve on those too having not even yet made the playoffs
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| McKenna first season …. on 07:11 - Feb 16 with 897 views | chicoazul |
Free hits again eh? Where have we heard this before. |  |
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| McKenna first season …. on 07:20 - Feb 16 with 895 views | PioneerBlue |
I like your post but it feels a little too early for a season autopsy.
I don’t like the reaction of many fan boys to the way the season has gone, I expected more of a collective support rather than sniping and questioning mid season.
However we are were we are and form has dropped off with no sign of improvement.
We have a lot still to fight for this season albeit disappointments to deal with. That pain is all part of developing the collective strength to go on long runs and have the promotion challenge.
Look at Bolton, Barnsley, Sheff Wed and the winning runs. Different teams, different types of players.
This season it’s clear where we’ve had issues. Lack of Striker depth, Midfield was addressed in the summer and it’s been hit by injury are injury. Defence has not been as resilient as expected. There have been other key injuries at times when players were in form most notably Edwards returning to early season fitness, Burgess Ball Pan Cam Harness TJJ .
I’m in the boat that says KMcK is the coach to commit to and build with. I do need to see him swing the form and achieve the playoffs, it would be a serious concern to miss the playoffs from the position we were in at Dec. If we don’t make the playoffs there are very big questions to answer because the club momentum swing will have been significant without pause. I would need to see some signs on the pitch between now and the end of the season, and hear what we’ve learnt.
Whatever the outcome this season, there is change coming this summer. That offers the opportunity to rearrange for the Championship or put final pieces in place for a go at L1. I would argue everything is there for KMcK to have another go using learnings from failures this season (assuming it’s still L1).
At this time there must be a question mark over all of these for next season for reasons of capability or desire to play elsewhere:
Morsy
Luongo
Jackson
Burns
Chaplin
Harness
Hirst
Wolf
Edmundson
Walton
KVY
Edwards
Piggot
Harper | |
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| McKenna first season …. on 11:47 - Feb 16 with 808 views | patrickswell |
| McKenna first season …. on 18:27 - Feb 15 by FrimleyBlue |
The last manager didn't get a full season with a run of wins similar.
Despite having a harder job than KM walked into.
And KM has had 3 transfer windows. |
He's been here for 3 transfer windows, but only really done any serious business in 2 of them. I don't consider loaning in Bakinson or Thompson last January the act of someone spending wildly and failing to make up the considerable handicap his predecessor left him in trying to make up ground on 10 other teams. |  | | |
| McKenna first season …. on 11:59 - Feb 16 with 788 views | FrimleyBlue |
| McKenna first season …. on 11:47 - Feb 16 by patrickswell |
He's been here for 3 transfer windows, but only really done any serious business in 2 of them. I don't consider loaning in Bakinson or Thompson last January the act of someone spending wildly and failing to make up the considerable handicap his predecessor left him in trying to make up ground on 10 other teams. |
But the points he had to make up are close to what many felt he could still achieve this season..
To many fans are being selective with how long they're giving someone a free hit.
KM has had possibly the easiest job of any town manager since Keane and is making very hard work of it. |  |
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| McKenna first season …. on 12:12 - Feb 16 with 779 views | jayessess |
| McKenna first season …. on 11:59 - Feb 16 by FrimleyBlue |
But the points he had to make up are close to what many felt he could still achieve this season..
To many fans are being selective with how long they're giving someone a free hit.
KM has had possibly the easiest job of any town manager since Keane and is making very hard work of it. |
He's the first manager we've had since Mick McCarthy who did anything at all to accumulate any credit in the bank, so he gets more leeway for a bad run. It's as simple as that. |  |
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| McKenna first season …. on 12:26 - Feb 16 with 760 views | itfcjoe |
| McKenna first season …. on 18:15 - Feb 15 by Swansea_Blue |
He’s done a lot better than some supposed experienced managers we’ve had lately. It’d be madness to think about parting ways. It’s madness people seriously suggesting it. But then I’d like us to build something we’re proud and is a bit more lasting. He’s the only manager we’ve had for ages who I think has the potential to do that. If that takes a couple of years or so, so be it. Maybe I’m the daft one, who knows. |
I don't disagree with the viewpoint, but the caveat is if we stumble across line into POs this year from position we were in and limp out then if he is here next year the pressure will be off the scale and any blip will see crowd turn and you end up in a position as a manager where impossible to win fans back.
Once you've lost a big chunk of fanbase, which a weak finish to this season will do, then it's very difficult for anyone to turn that round bar perfection |  |
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| McKenna first season …. on 12:47 - Feb 16 with 723 views | FrimleyBlue |
| McKenna first season …. on 12:12 - Feb 16 by jayessess |
He's the first manager we've had since Mick McCarthy who did anything at all to accumulate any credit in the bank, so he gets more leeway for a bad run. It's as simple as that. |
Its am interesting one really
I understand the credit talk.. but there were games under KM last season when you think back follow similar patterns to some within this blip..
Shrewsbury 11
Cambridge 0-1
Oxford 1 1
Morcambe 1 1
Cheltenham 0 0
Also interesting when we think of draws. He drew 8 of his last 16 games.
It's not alarm bells of course and it doesn't have any effect of this season. But it's quite interesting.
His start to his tenure here tho was excellent. Crazy amount of wins. So it seems quite normal to start with a buzz then slowly drift away. | |
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| McKenna first season …. on 12:54 - Feb 16 with 710 views | BseaBlue |
| McKenna first season …. on 12:26 - Feb 16 by itfcjoe |
I don't disagree with the viewpoint, but the caveat is if we stumble across line into POs this year from position we were in and limp out then if he is here next year the pressure will be off the scale and any blip will see crowd turn and you end up in a position as a manager where impossible to win fans back.
Once you've lost a big chunk of fanbase, which a weak finish to this season will do, then it's very difficult for anyone to turn that round bar perfection |
.......Sounds just like Paul Cook's reign all over again doesn't it. He used project reset as his get out clause, but as you have described, the end of his first season gave him little credit when starting the next one.
I'm completely with you. If we stutter our way to a finish this season and don't get promoted, things could get very toxic, very quickly in August/September time. |  | | |
| McKenna first season …. on 13:04 - Feb 16 with 697 views | itfcjoe |
| McKenna first season …. on 12:54 - Feb 16 by BseaBlue |
.......Sounds just like Paul Cook's reign all over again doesn't it. He used project reset as his get out clause, but as you have described, the end of his first season gave him little credit when starting the next one.
I'm completely with you. If we stutter our way to a finish this season and don't get promoted, things could get very toxic, very quickly in August/September time. |
Ultimately you can't pull the wool over fans eyes, and we are struggling at the moment - and shouldn't be. For me it started out with being on the wrong end of things, deflected goals, poor decisions etc but because of that it has mentally hurt us and now it has become a self fulfilling prophecy and we've gone from drawing games we should have won, to drawing games we don't deserve to win.
A lot can, and will, change over the next 15 games - the top two has gone - but that is as much down to SW and PAFC as it is down to ourselves - there has been no real margin for error left and they are both deservedly running away with it.
For me there is no way we don't go into the play offs in good shape, then you just have to get on the right side of things - if we go into the POs in good shape and play well in them then this season hasn't been a failure - but if that doesn't happen then it will be a long summer and no room for error next season | |
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| McKenna first season …. on 13:21 - Feb 16 with 653 views | jayessess |
| McKenna first season …. on 12:47 - Feb 16 by FrimleyBlue |
Its am interesting one really
I understand the credit talk.. but there were games under KM last season when you think back follow similar patterns to some within this blip..
Shrewsbury 11
Cambridge 0-1
Oxford 1 1
Morcambe 1 1
Cheltenham 0 0
Also interesting when we think of draws. He drew 8 of his last 16 games.
It's not alarm bells of course and it doesn't have any effect of this season. But it's quite interesting.
His start to his tenure here tho was excellent. Crazy amount of wins. So it seems quite normal to start with a buzz then slowly drift away. |
41 points from his first 23 games
50 points from the next 23.
That's promotion form over the course of an entire season worth of games. That's showing you can do it over a long period of time, not just a few good patches of form and not just a new manager bounce.
I don't want to overrate it because that's what an Ipswich Town manager should be doing in League One. But it was progress and it is more than enough credit in the bank to survive a bad run.
I've never been one for "free hits", "transitional seasons", "time to gel" or particularly believed that "giving the manager time" is the secret to success. But McKenna has shown things in his tenure that warrant persistence (unlike the previous two incumbents). | |
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| McKenna first season …. on 13:35 - Feb 16 with 636 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| McKenna first season …. on 03:35 - Feb 16 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Basically none of them, the only comparable ‘big’ clubs who have taken as long as we have to get back out of this league are Sunderland and Sheffield United. Sunderland ended up going up in their fourth season and Sheffield United had troubled the playoffs several times by now
Sheffield Weds’ latest stint will almost certainly be over after 2 seasons now too, to add to the below
I don't hate Cook like I did Lambert by C_HealyIsAPleasure 4 Oct 2021 9:20We’re certainly making harder work of it than most though
Looking at the big clubs that have come down to here in the last 20 or so years:
Man City, Leicester, Norwich, Wolves and Blackburn were all promoted at the first attempt
Sheffield Weds (1st time around) and Southampton did it second time around
Forest, Leeds and Charlton (twice) did it at the third go, all having made the playoffs beforehand. Leeds would have gone up automatically first time around had they not been deducted 15 points
Sunderland are on their 4th attempt but have made the playoffs twice, and currently sit second
Sheffield United are the outliers taking 6 seasons, but again did playoffs 3 times beforehand including their first 2 seasons
Portsmouth, Bolton and Coventry I think are somewhat different cases, given they were all basically bankrupt when they came down
So looking at like for like cases, if we don’t go up this season we’ll have taken longer than everyone bar Sunderland and Sheffield United, and we’re already behind the curve on those too having not even yet made the playoffs
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LOL. I love how you say "Basically none of them" and then list 2.
It's not remotely "none of them" if there's 2. Not sure how putting the word 'basically' in there helps your non-point. |  |
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| McKenna first season …. on 13:43 - Feb 16 with 631 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| McKenna first season …. on 18:56 - Feb 15 by Herbivore |
Nope. Think Sheffield United got our on their third or fourth attempt, Leeds the third I believe. Southampton weren't down here for four years.
Edit - just checked and United were down here for six years. Hadn't realised it was that long. They were a mess though. General point stands that very few comparable sides languish at this level for longer than we have. [Post edited 15 Feb 2023 19:07]
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"They were a mess though."
Why do people always put caveats into this point? You were proved wrong. You couldn't think of one, farkenhell gave you one (the same one that was my first thought too) and then you dismiss them with "They were a mess though."
Even if you'd asked "except those who were a mess" it wouldn't be a valid caveat. We weren't a mess under Evans?!
Sorry but no, your general point doesn't stand. It's been proven there have been other teams who stayed down as long or longer than us (and a few only slightly less as long so far).
Not really sure of the point of this anyway. We've stayed down a similar amount of time as some comparable clubs, we've also had a big takeover in that time and massive changes from the underfunded Evans years. A rookie manager will take time to turn this ship around (which has been carp and on a downward spiral for years) and any idea that he should have done it already, or that this year (his first full season in management) is his last chance, is ludicrous to me. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| McKenna first season …. on 13:54 - Feb 16 with 613 views | FrimleyBlue |
| McKenna first season …. on 13:43 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"They were a mess though."
Why do people always put caveats into this point? You were proved wrong. You couldn't think of one, farkenhell gave you one (the same one that was my first thought too) and then you dismiss them with "They were a mess though."
Even if you'd asked "except those who were a mess" it wouldn't be a valid caveat. We weren't a mess under Evans?!
Sorry but no, your general point doesn't stand. It's been proven there have been other teams who stayed down as long or longer than us (and a few only slightly less as long so far).
Not really sure of the point of this anyway. We've stayed down a similar amount of time as some comparable clubs, we've also had a big takeover in that time and massive changes from the underfunded Evans years. A rookie manager will take time to turn this ship around (which has been carp and on a downward spiral for years) and any idea that he should have done it already, or that this year (his first full season in management) is his last chance, is ludicrous to me. |
Again tho.. you weren't so patient with the previous manager.
Absolutely the results weren't great. But if you're using the mess of the club as a defence of KM and how he deserves time. Then surely regardless of PCs failings. That same patience should have been granted?
KM didn't come in with a need of getting rid of dead wood. He took on a squad which was set up for a league 1 promotion push not one that had been dieing for seasons upon seasons. | |
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| McKenna first season …. on 14:04 - Feb 16 with 590 views | Herbivore |
| McKenna first season …. on 13:43 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"They were a mess though."
Why do people always put caveats into this point? You were proved wrong. You couldn't think of one, farkenhell gave you one (the same one that was my first thought too) and then you dismiss them with "They were a mess though."
Even if you'd asked "except those who were a mess" it wouldn't be a valid caveat. We weren't a mess under Evans?!
Sorry but no, your general point doesn't stand. It's been proven there have been other teams who stayed down as long or longer than us (and a few only slightly less as long so far).
Not really sure of the point of this anyway. We've stayed down a similar amount of time as some comparable clubs, we've also had a big takeover in that time and massive changes from the underfunded Evans years. A rookie manager will take time to turn this ship around (which has been carp and on a downward spiral for years) and any idea that he should have done it already, or that this year (his first full season in management) is his last chance, is ludicrous to me. |
The fact one side of comparable stature has struggled more than us to get out of League 1 in the last 20 years isn't quite the 'gotcha' you think it is, Dollers. [Post edited 16 Feb 2023 14:07]
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| McKenna first season …. on 14:13 - Feb 16 with 565 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| McKenna first season …. on 13:54 - Feb 16 by FrimleyBlue |
Again tho.. you weren't so patient with the previous manager.
Absolutely the results weren't great. But if you're using the mess of the club as a defence of KM and how he deserves time. Then surely regardless of PCs failings. That same patience should have been granted?
KM didn't come in with a need of getting rid of dead wood. He took on a squad which was set up for a league 1 promotion push not one that had been dieing for seasons upon seasons. |
What the F are you talking about?! I got stick on these very pages for sticking with Cook for too long! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| McKenna first season …. on 14:15 - Feb 16 with 558 views | BiGDonnie |
| McKenna first season …. on 11:59 - Feb 16 by FrimleyBlue |
But the points he had to make up are close to what many felt he could still achieve this season..
To many fans are being selective with how long they're giving someone a free hit.
KM has had possibly the easiest job of any town manager since Keane and is making very hard work of it. |
STFU Dimley.
I'll reiterate the fact that no one, absolutely fookin no one cares what you think.
Hope this helps. |  |
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| McKenna first season …. on 14:17 - Feb 16 with 551 views | jayessess |
| McKenna first season …. on 13:54 - Feb 16 by FrimleyBlue |
Again tho.. you weren't so patient with the previous manager.
Absolutely the results weren't great. But if you're using the mess of the club as a defence of KM and how he deserves time. Then surely regardless of PCs failings. That same patience should have been granted?
KM didn't come in with a need of getting rid of dead wood. He took on a squad which was set up for a league 1 promotion push not one that had been dieing for seasons upon seasons. |
Paul Cook came in, did poorly, replaced all the players, continued to do poorly. What was there to be patient with?
If Kieran McKenna had won 4 league games in his first 22, he'd be long gone by now. | |
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| McKenna first season …. on 14:20 - Feb 16 with 544 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| McKenna first season …. on 14:04 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
The fact one side of comparable stature has struggled more than us to get out of League 1 in the last 20 years isn't quite the 'gotcha' you think it is, Dollers. [Post edited 16 Feb 2023 14:07]
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No but the fact that you reckon that you couldn't think of one, then someone very quickly named one (and several who are pretty close) is.
The fact is there are several similar sized clubs who've been down a similar length of time. That's that, so your point is answered.
Although I'm not sure what relevance whatever Cook and Lambert did has to McKenna anyway. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| McKenna first season …. on 14:27 - Feb 16 with 516 views | jayessess |
| McKenna first season …. on 14:20 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
No but the fact that you reckon that you couldn't think of one, then someone very quickly named one (and several who are pretty close) is.
The fact is there are several similar sized clubs who've been down a similar length of time. That's that, so your point is answered.
Although I'm not sure what relevance whatever Cook and Lambert did has to McKenna anyway. |
Quite a long list of big teams who didn't take very long to bounce back up.
Very short list of big teams that spent so long down here without even a play-off appearance. | |
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| McKenna first season …. on 14:29 - Feb 16 with 505 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| McKenna first season …. on 14:15 - Feb 16 by BiGDonnie |
STFU Dimley.
I'll reiterate the fact that no one, absolutely fookin no one cares what you think.
Hope this helps. |
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| McKenna first season …. on 14:30 - Feb 16 with 501 views | Herbivore |
| McKenna first season …. on 14:20 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
No but the fact that you reckon that you couldn't think of one, then someone very quickly named one (and several who are pretty close) is.
The fact is there are several similar sized clubs who've been down a similar length of time. That's that, so your point is answered.
Although I'm not sure what relevance whatever Cook and Lambert did has to McKenna anyway. |
One comparable side in 20 years, Dollers. Apologies that I didn't immediately call them to mind, you see when it's such a rarity there's not exactly a plethora of examples to draw on. In fact there was only one. That's in contrast to the many, many examples of comparable sides who have got out of this pissing league within 3 years. | |
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