| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist 14:13 - Mar 2 with 11715 views | giant_stow |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64824436
Assuming we're allowed to talk about this now the case has finished, finding her guilty seems harsh to me, let alone 3 years of prison. Partially sighted person gets cross at a cyclist on a pavement.... except no one seems to know if its a pavement or shared track. Isn;t the council ultimately at fault? |  |
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 19:26 - Mar 2 with 1586 views | eireblue |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 18:36 - Mar 2 by giant_stow |
I think its important to separate the tragic nature of this with the causes.
I really don't want to upset anyone, but I would say there were various causes to this: the pedestrian's actions, the pedestrian's vulnerability, the 'design' (or lack of) of the pathway / combined with the apparent speed of car traffic and also, I'm really sorry to say, the lack of rider ability.
Blaming the death of the cyclist completely on the pedestrian seems unjust to me. |
Another way to view this.
Lots of motorists speed, and some get caught, and get fined a certain amount, say 60 quid and three points.
Now, say you have a motorist that speeds and as a result kills a child.
Should they get three points and a 60 quid fine?
Shouting and swearing at cyclists and being aggressive, is an offence.
It is illegal to cause alarm, distress, or harassment using threatening, abusive, or insulting language.
That’s your 60 quid and three points.
Using threatening, abusive or insulting language that causes the death of an elderly person.
That’s your speeder hitting a child. |  | | |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 19:28 - Mar 2 with 1586 views | Swansea_Blue |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:48 - Mar 2 by ronnyd |
Looked at the CCTV footage earlier this morning and no way was that poorly surfaced pavement anywhere near wide enough to be classed as a cycle way as well as a pavement. Just another cop out by police, (no pun) and the local council. I don't think the pedestrian shouting at the cyclist to "get off the f'in pavement helped her case mind.
Added 'Don't' to hopefully make more sense of what i meant. [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 15:07]
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Sadly, that’s often typical of what passes as cycle path. You’re right - there’s no way that should be a shared use path (if indeed it is. It looks like it might be as the reported nearly gets flattened by a cyclist trying to squeeze by).
Cyclists are an afterthought in the UK. Even new road schemes don’t often cater specifically for them and all too often new cycle paths are nonsensical bolt-ons. In many cases cyclists are better off on the road. |  |
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 19:30 - Mar 2 with 1587 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
tragic story. I am not really impartial as I am a cyclist. I have written to the local council here 2 or 3 times to complain at lack of proper cycle paths. I've encountered aggressive pedestrians shouting in a similar way to "get off the f***ing pavement". The problem is that our road systems were designed (mostly) decades ago with car drivers in mind. In many places, there are narrow lanes on the roads, and sharing the road with cycles and cars and lorries is just asking to be crushed. Far too many cyclists perish under the wheels of lorries and cars, and I'm just not putting myself in that situation, so wherever there is a dangerous road, I choose the path. Is it a "cycleway"? Who knows, because like that one in the video, they are not marked. They also have (like that one) road signs mounted in the paths, on grey steel poles. Cycling to work on dark mornings along paths with unlit grey steel poles, avoiding aggressive pedestrians and intersections with cars that travel at 3 x the speed - it's a very hazardous way to do your bit to save the planet.
Isn't it time both national and local government took responsibility and developed a strategy to make it easier and safer to cycle in this country? [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 19:31]
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 19:32 - Mar 2 with 1582 views | Illinoisblue |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 18:29 - Mar 2 by Whos_blue |
Illy, the cyclist died mate.
Your arguement is a little simplistic on this one.
It was found to be more than just "yelling" at someone. That action robbed that family of a loved one. |
Like I said, it’s tragic no doubt. As for more than yelling, what am I missing? She didn’t shove her off her bike or move into her way. Drunk drivers get less than 3 years. |  |
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 19:51 - Mar 2 with 1548 views | StNeotsBlue |
From the story the woman's address is Bradbury Place so more than likely has some form of learning disability, as it is a place for people with such issues to live independently.
I have absolutely no idea if this should have any bearing on severity of punishment. [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 20:46]
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 20:07 - Mar 2 with 1522 views | Swansea_Blue |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 19:32 - Mar 2 by Illinoisblue |
Like I said, it’s tragic no doubt. As for more than yelling, what am I missing? She didn’t shove her off her bike or move into her way. Drunk drivers get less than 3 years. |
Her actions forced the cyclist off the path into the path of the car. Without that the cyclist would still be here today. | |
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 20:19 - Mar 2 with 1500 views | Clapham_Junction |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 19:30 - Mar 2 by LegendofthePhoenix |
tragic story. I am not really impartial as I am a cyclist. I have written to the local council here 2 or 3 times to complain at lack of proper cycle paths. I've encountered aggressive pedestrians shouting in a similar way to "get off the f***ing pavement". The problem is that our road systems were designed (mostly) decades ago with car drivers in mind. In many places, there are narrow lanes on the roads, and sharing the road with cycles and cars and lorries is just asking to be crushed. Far too many cyclists perish under the wheels of lorries and cars, and I'm just not putting myself in that situation, so wherever there is a dangerous road, I choose the path. Is it a "cycleway"? Who knows, because like that one in the video, they are not marked. They also have (like that one) road signs mounted in the paths, on grey steel poles. Cycling to work on dark mornings along paths with unlit grey steel poles, avoiding aggressive pedestrians and intersections with cars that travel at 3 x the speed - it's a very hazardous way to do your bit to save the planet.
Isn't it time both national and local government took responsibility and developed a strategy to make it easier and safer to cycle in this country? [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 19:31]
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Cyclists are one of the main targets of ire in my local Facebook group. Admittedly some are arseholes, and you will never see a red light not being ignored by cyclists in central London, but some people seem to hate them with a passion - petitions to get cyclists to have mandatory insurance and number plates are regularly shared.
Thankfully the GLA have installed a decent set of cycleways in central London and some boroughs have done good work on installing them during and post-COVID, but sadly it has become quite political (LTNs having become a culture war issue) and several Conservative boroughs (and some weaker Labour ones) ripped them out again... |  | | |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 20:47 - Mar 2 with 1463 views | giant_stow |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 20:19 - Mar 2 by Clapham_Junction |
Cyclists are one of the main targets of ire in my local Facebook group. Admittedly some are arseholes, and you will never see a red light not being ignored by cyclists in central London, but some people seem to hate them with a passion - petitions to get cyclists to have mandatory insurance and number plates are regularly shared.
Thankfully the GLA have installed a decent set of cycleways in central London and some boroughs have done good work on installing them during and post-COVID, but sadly it has become quite political (LTNs having become a culture war issue) and several Conservative boroughs (and some weaker Labour ones) ripped them out again... |
I really don;t this should be a cyclists vs the world story, personally. If anything this demonstrates the need for clear cycle lanes or if shared, clear markings. The fact that even now, there seems to be some question about whether this was shared path demonstrates, the pedestrian's actions weren't the sole cause of this death.
As a very occasional cyclist, I've seen these shared paths marked out clearly and sign-posted regularly all along (Whipps Cross Road is one you might even know) so everyone knows where they stand and whats expected of them. If the budget isn't there to mark shared paths properly, isn't it safer for a cyclist to be on a road and partially sighted person to be on a pavement? Especially when cyclists aren;t meant to be pavements for reasons exactly such as this. | |
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 20:49 - Mar 2 with 1461 views | DJR |
My view is that you can't properly comment on a case unless you have sat through it.
The judge and the jury will have heard all the evidence etc, so the default assumption is that they have got it right. [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 20:50]
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 21:04 - Mar 2 with 1432 views | giant_stow |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 20:49 - Mar 2 by DJR |
My view is that you can't properly comment on a case unless you have sat through it.
The judge and the jury will have heard all the evidence etc, so the default assumption is that they have got it right. [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 20:50]
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Very true, but equally, i'd be uncomfortable with a world where every court case's conclusion would be met with unquestioning acceptance, always. | |
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 21:07 - Mar 2 with 1419 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 20:47 - Mar 2 by giant_stow |
I really don;t this should be a cyclists vs the world story, personally. If anything this demonstrates the need for clear cycle lanes or if shared, clear markings. The fact that even now, there seems to be some question about whether this was shared path demonstrates, the pedestrian's actions weren't the sole cause of this death.
As a very occasional cyclist, I've seen these shared paths marked out clearly and sign-posted regularly all along (Whipps Cross Road is one you might even know) so everyone knows where they stand and whats expected of them. If the budget isn't there to mark shared paths properly, isn't it safer for a cyclist to be on a road and partially sighted person to be on a pavement? Especially when cyclists aren;t meant to be pavements for reasons exactly such as this. |
more than 100 cyclists are killed, and more than 4,000 seriously injured on the roads in Great Britain, every year. It is very rare that pedestrians are killed by cyclists. QED. | |
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 21:22 - Mar 2 with 1387 views | giant_stow |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 21:07 - Mar 2 by LegendofthePhoenix |
more than 100 cyclists are killed, and more than 4,000 seriously injured on the roads in Great Britain, every year. It is very rare that pedestrians are killed by cyclists. QED. |
This is in danger of going all culture wars, which honestly wasn't my intention, so will gently back away now | |
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 22:51 - Mar 2 with 1339 views | Ryorry |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 19:14 - Mar 2 by Ewan_Oozami |
I'm with you on this one, ulla... |
Me too. I can understand the conviction (just about, as I think the council needs to take some responsibility for the inadequate layout), but the sentence seems incredibly harsh - it could have been a suspended one, eg. |  |
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 23:08 - Mar 2 with 1328 views | Ryorry |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 19:26 - Mar 2 by eireblue |
Another way to view this.
Lots of motorists speed, and some get caught, and get fined a certain amount, say 60 quid and three points.
Now, say you have a motorist that speeds and as a result kills a child.
Should they get three points and a 60 quid fine?
Shouting and swearing at cyclists and being aggressive, is an offence.
It is illegal to cause alarm, distress, or harassment using threatening, abusive, or insulting language.
That’s your 60 quid and three points.
Using threatening, abusive or insulting language that causes the death of an elderly person.
That’s your speeder hitting a child. |
Very different situation. In brief as on my phone and hand is aching, drivers have weeks of instruction, a test that includes the Highway Code, have it regularly drummed into them that speed kills etc.
This pedestrian had no such training, may have been uneducated about cyclists, frightened by the sudden appearance of the cyclist etc. I get that it’s not a good look for her to have run away, but who knows how we would react until we’re faced with a situation. She couldn’t have foreseen the consequences of her actions. | |
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 00:11 - Mar 3 with 1281 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 19:32 - Mar 2 by Illinoisblue |
Like I said, it’s tragic no doubt. As for more than yelling, what am I missing? She didn’t shove her off her bike or move into her way. Drunk drivers get less than 3 years. |
I've literally spelled out the reasons you're missing. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 00:13 - Mar 3 with 1279 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 22:51 - Mar 2 by Ryorry |
Me too. I can understand the conviction (just about, as I think the council needs to take some responsibility for the inadequate layout), but the sentence seems incredibly harsh - it could have been a suspended one, eg. |
If it was just shouting at a cyclist it is a bit harsh. It's everything else mentioned that pushes it beyond just shouting at a cyclist. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 00:15 - Mar 3 with 1276 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 23:08 - Mar 2 by Ryorry |
Very different situation. In brief as on my phone and hand is aching, drivers have weeks of instruction, a test that includes the Highway Code, have it regularly drummed into them that speed kills etc.
This pedestrian had no such training, may have been uneducated about cyclists, frightened by the sudden appearance of the cyclist etc. I get that it’s not a good look for her to have run away, but who knows how we would react until we’re faced with a situation. She couldn’t have foreseen the consequences of her actions. |
She didn't "run away" she went shopping for groceries. If I'd just caused someone to be seriously injured or killed I couldn't possibly go grocery shopping! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 00:56 - Mar 3 with 1266 views | eireblue |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 23:08 - Mar 2 by Ryorry |
Very different situation. In brief as on my phone and hand is aching, drivers have weeks of instruction, a test that includes the Highway Code, have it regularly drummed into them that speed kills etc.
This pedestrian had no such training, may have been uneducated about cyclists, frightened by the sudden appearance of the cyclist etc. I get that it’s not a good look for her to have run away, but who knows how we would react until we’re faced with a situation. She couldn’t have foreseen the consequences of her actions. |
It was an analogy not a direct comparison.
But running with that thought
It is illegal to cause alarm, distress, or harassment using threatening, abusive, or insulting language.
Humans shouldn’t really need weeks of instruction on not being threatening and abusive, even if they are pedestrians.
“She couldn’t have foreseen the consequences of her actions”
So what. That’s the point of laws and courts.
Saying, yea I was quite surprised my illegal activity had some consequences I didn’t personally foresee, does not seem a defence that should be considered, in any circumstance.
Since the simple response is, yea, we know, that’s why we went to the bother of having a law.
And even on the “cyclists shouldn’t be on pavements” theme. Sure tut, even quite loudly, but enforcing that rule, fine, go join the police, and stop cyclists on pavements. | | | |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 03:51 - Mar 3 with 1218 views | Ryorry |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 00:56 - Mar 3 by eireblue |
It was an analogy not a direct comparison.
But running with that thought
It is illegal to cause alarm, distress, or harassment using threatening, abusive, or insulting language.
Humans shouldn’t really need weeks of instruction on not being threatening and abusive, even if they are pedestrians.
“She couldn’t have foreseen the consequences of her actions”
So what. That’s the point of laws and courts.
Saying, yea I was quite surprised my illegal activity had some consequences I didn’t personally foresee, does not seem a defence that should be considered, in any circumstance.
Since the simple response is, yea, we know, that’s why we went to the bother of having a law.
And even on the “cyclists shouldn’t be on pavements” theme. Sure tut, even quite loudly, but enforcing that rule, fine, go join the police, and stop cyclists on pavements. |
"It is illegal to cause alarm, distress, or harassment using threatening, abusive, or insulting language."
If that were universally applied, half the population of the UK, including all Tory MPs, would have criminal convictions. [Post edited 3 Mar 2023 4:35]
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 08:03 - Mar 3 with 1110 views | Leaky |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:48 - Mar 2 by ronnyd |
Looked at the CCTV footage earlier this morning and no way was that poorly surfaced pavement anywhere near wide enough to be classed as a cycle way as well as a pavement. Just another cop out by police, (no pun) and the local council. I don't think the pedestrian shouting at the cyclist to "get off the f'in pavement helped her case mind.
Added 'Don't' to hopefully make more sense of what i meant. [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 15:07]
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As some one who lives near Huntingdon, & drives around that area on a daily basis, I would be amazed if that pavement was suitable for cyclists. |  | | |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 08:58 - Mar 3 with 1079 views | eireblue |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 03:51 - Mar 3 by Ryorry |
"It is illegal to cause alarm, distress, or harassment using threatening, abusive, or insulting language."
If that were universally applied, half the population of the UK, including all Tory MPs, would have criminal convictions. [Post edited 3 Mar 2023 4:35]
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And that is why speeding works quite well as an analogy.
“In 2021, under free-flowing traffic conditions, 51% of car drivers exceeded the speed limit on 30mph roads compared to 48% on motorway“
Half the population of car drivers don’t have a motoring conviction for speeding, it as around 4%. | | | |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 08:59 - Mar 3 with 1079 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 20:49 - Mar 2 by DJR |
My view is that you can't properly comment on a case unless you have sat through it.
The judge and the jury will have heard all the evidence etc, so the default assumption is that they have got it right. [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 20:50]
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I don't have an issue with the "guilty of manslaughter" verdict as such, it's just the 3 year prison sentence I don't understand... |  |
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 09:06 - Mar 3 with 1061 views | Swansea_Blue |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 08:59 - Mar 3 by Ewan_Oozami |
I don't have an issue with the "guilty of manslaughter" verdict as such, it's just the 3 year prison sentence I don't understand... |
Given she does look like she’s got learning difficulties it does seem harsh. But then the consequence of her behaviour was pretty harsh on the cyclist too - she’s the real victim. Tragic story really.
You’d think there’s likely to be an appeal to reduce the sentence. | |
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 09:33 - Mar 3 with 1044 views | Ryorry |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 08:58 - Mar 3 by eireblue |
And that is why speeding works quite well as an analogy.
“In 2021, under free-flowing traffic conditions, 51% of car drivers exceeded the speed limit on 30mph roads compared to 48% on motorway“
Half the population of car drivers don’t have a motoring conviction for speeding, it as around 4%. |
Sorry but your analogy doesn’t seem the slightest bit analogous to me, for the reasons I already explained. We’ll just have to agree to disagree. | |
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| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 09:59 - Mar 3 with 1028 views | DJR |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 21:04 - Mar 2 by giant_stow |
Very true, but equally, i'd be uncomfortable with a world where every court case's conclusion would be met with unquestioning acceptance, always. |
Oh yes, it certainly wouldn't sell newspapers. And I am not suggesting there should be any clampdown. | | | |
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