| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! 15:25 - Mar 30 with 5724 views | GlasgowBlue |
100,000 people killed by them each year.
|  |
| |  |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:27 - Mar 31 with 1058 views | giant_stow |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:22 - Mar 31 by DanTheMan |
I'm not saying both sides aren't capable of bad behaviour, just pointing out that the context of the video (that's now been edited out, so not the LibsOfTikTok one) was massively distorted and they then had to shut it down. Worth bearing in mind though that LibsOfTikTok is a reasonably hateful person.
Would I want to take my kids to one of those shows in the video? Probably not, although I have a feeling I'd need to know more about this other than a short clip to comment fully. Do I think there is any real damage being done? Probably not. |
I'm not aware of the video / selective editing stuff and can well believe there's nasty political sh1t afoot, cos that's the world we live in now. But that clip looks like the sort of thing you'd find on a stage In a lap dancing club and I wouldn't take my child there (if I could sneak them jn past the bouncer). Would there be any damage if I took my kid to one of those? Who knows, I'm not a child psychologist, but I suspect they wouldn't recommend it. [Post edited 31 Mar 2023 9:29]
|  |
| |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:35 - Mar 31 with 1021 views | DanTheMan |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:27 - Mar 31 by giant_stow |
I'm not aware of the video / selective editing stuff and can well believe there's nasty political sh1t afoot, cos that's the world we live in now. But that clip looks like the sort of thing you'd find on a stage In a lap dancing club and I wouldn't take my child there (if I could sneak them jn past the bouncer). Would there be any damage if I took my kid to one of those? Who knows, I'm not a child psychologist, but I suspect they wouldn't recommend it. [Post edited 31 Mar 2023 9:29]
|
This is the issue, we have a very short clip and literally no other information. For all we know, it wasn't even supposed to be a child / family friendly show. Googling for it just pulls up the same outrage articles but no information on what the show was supposed to be.
This culture war nonsense is spread to get people outraged but no one wants to put in the actual leg work to verify what they are being shown.
Reminds me of that story sometime this year where some apparently trans group wanted to get a song banned which made the rounds through all the usual suspects but it turns out it was literally a brand new Twitter account that was obviously satire. |  |
| |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:36 - Mar 31 with 1014 views | clive_baker |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:22 - Mar 31 by itfcjoe |
I'd put that in there, before watching the whole video and reluctant to share that Dominique Samuels as don't particularly like her or her viewpoints.
But this is where the problem comes from for me - the right will go after it and show it all in it's worst light and fire people up. The left will be blinkered and bat it away and not accept any potential criticism of it.
The video I have shared is clearly wrong; I have seen dozens of others I'd say are the same - but I've also seen 'shocking' videos of a kid rubbing the crotch of a drag performer which is shared widely but looks to me as though it is just a kid interested in the material and the performer steps away and carries on but it is held up as sexualising kids which it doesn't.
But there can be no nuance or debate - either all drag shows are the work of the devil, or anyone who thinks any part of them is beyond the pail is a righty who needs to butt out |
Keep up, there's no room for nuance in debate, you have to put everyone into a box at either end of the spectrum. If you don't like the idea of young kids watching scantily clad performers gyrating, then you're a swivel eyed righty and against trans rights and trans performers.
FWIW I would take exactly the same exception to non trans men or women performing what is firmly adult entertainment in front of young children, such as some of the high profile examples we've seen lately.
But it's the same as a priest in clerical clothing, or something like that. The world has gone nuts. |  |
| |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:40 - Mar 31 with 1003 views | giant_stow |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:35 - Mar 31 by DanTheMan |
This is the issue, we have a very short clip and literally no other information. For all we know, it wasn't even supposed to be a child / family friendly show. Googling for it just pulls up the same outrage articles but no information on what the show was supposed to be.
This culture war nonsense is spread to get people outraged but no one wants to put in the actual leg work to verify what they are being shown.
Reminds me of that story sometime this year where some apparently trans group wanted to get a song banned which made the rounds through all the usual suspects but it turns out it was literally a brand new Twitter account that was obviously satire. |
On the whole I thoroughly agree about the need to be careful and if this video has been full on doctored with the kids edited in over a show for adults, then you have a point. I suspect that's not what's happened here though and even though it's a short clip, if real, it's highly sexualisd / enough to say no ta for me. | |
| |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:42 - Mar 31 with 996 views | DanTheMan |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:40 - Mar 31 by giant_stow |
On the whole I thoroughly agree about the need to be careful and if this video has been full on doctored with the kids edited in over a show for adults, then you have a point. I suspect that's not what's happened here though and even though it's a short clip, if real, it's highly sexualisd / enough to say no ta for me. |
To be clear, I don't think it's been doctored, more that we don't know what the event is, whether it was advertised as family friendly etc.
Basically, we have no information to go off of other than trusting someone who is very partisan and pushes a lot of culture wars stuff sharing a very short clip. | |
| |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:46 - Mar 31 with 988 views | giant_stow |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:42 - Mar 31 by DanTheMan |
To be clear, I don't think it's been doctored, more that we don't know what the event is, whether it was advertised as family friendly etc.
Basically, we have no information to go off of other than trusting someone who is very partisan and pushes a lot of culture wars stuff sharing a very short clip. |
Ah I get you now. A reasonable point, but I think there's enough weirdness about see kids, g-strings and crotches in one place to make some kind of judgement, at least for me. I wouldn't call for a ban on the basis of it, but won't be rushing to book tickets. | |
| |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:53 - Mar 31 with 969 views | DanTheMan |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:46 - Mar 31 by giant_stow |
Ah I get you now. A reasonable point, but I think there's enough weirdness about see kids, g-strings and crotches in one place to make some kind of judgement, at least for me. I wouldn't call for a ban on the basis of it, but won't be rushing to book tickets. |
That's fair enough, everything is a judgment call and I'd not judge anyone who didn't want their kids seeing it. I probably wouldn't either but I don't think this is really all that harmful.
To contrast it somewhat, in some places in Europe people are much more open about being nude on beaches, even around children. Again, as a parent, you may feel comfortable or uncomfortable exposing children to nudity even if it's not sexually suggestive. I think both stances are absolutely fine.
As you say, I don't want to see people banned or bullied for thinking one way or the other but the rhetoric needs toning down by everyone. | |
| |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 12:01 - Mar 31 with 880 views | HARRY10 |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:53 - Mar 31 by DanTheMan |
That's fair enough, everything is a judgment call and I'd not judge anyone who didn't want their kids seeing it. I probably wouldn't either but I don't think this is really all that harmful.
To contrast it somewhat, in some places in Europe people are much more open about being nude on beaches, even around children. Again, as a parent, you may feel comfortable or uncomfortable exposing children to nudity even if it's not sexually suggestive. I think both stances are absolutely fine.
As you say, I don't want to see people banned or bullied for thinking one way or the other but the rhetoric needs toning down by everyone. |
As expected the righties are over exciting themselves, yet again. Such is their arousal they have become unsure which cliche to us.
Others have apparently watched umpteen of these videos. Where they got them from only they now. And why they feel the need to watch is rather disturbing. All reminiscent of Mary Whitehouse, who watched endless amounts of supposed filth on the TV which she claimed corrupted honest folk.... but not her it would seem.
It is all rather like the Daily Wail who tell us paedophiles are everywhere, whist running pictures of adolescent girls with the tag line 'all grown up'.
And as ever, along with the righties, they have tied themselves in knots over this. They are demanding that the 'nanny state' bans these events, over the thought that it is the parents who should be the ones to decide.
Lord alone knows what would happen were social workers trying to dictate what parents could see, and do.
A spontaneous explosion of self righteous dirty macs, I shouldn't wonder. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 12:20 - Mar 31 with 861 views | DropCliffsNotBombs |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:22 - Mar 31 by itfcjoe |
I'd put that in there, before watching the whole video and reluctant to share that Dominique Samuels as don't particularly like her or her viewpoints.
But this is where the problem comes from for me - the right will go after it and show it all in it's worst light and fire people up. The left will be blinkered and bat it away and not accept any potential criticism of it.
The video I have shared is clearly wrong; I have seen dozens of others I'd say are the same - but I've also seen 'shocking' videos of a kid rubbing the crotch of a drag performer which is shared widely but looks to me as though it is just a kid interested in the material and the performer steps away and carries on but it is held up as sexualising kids which it doesn't.
But there can be no nuance or debate - either all drag shows are the work of the devil, or anyone who thinks any part of them is beyond the pail is a righty who needs to butt out |
* I have seen dozens of others *
Prob stop then. |  | | |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 12:43 - Mar 31 with 827 views | eireblue |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 12:01 - Mar 31 by HARRY10 |
As expected the righties are over exciting themselves, yet again. Such is their arousal they have become unsure which cliche to us.
Others have apparently watched umpteen of these videos. Where they got them from only they now. And why they feel the need to watch is rather disturbing. All reminiscent of Mary Whitehouse, who watched endless amounts of supposed filth on the TV which she claimed corrupted honest folk.... but not her it would seem.
It is all rather like the Daily Wail who tell us paedophiles are everywhere, whist running pictures of adolescent girls with the tag line 'all grown up'.
And as ever, along with the righties, they have tied themselves in knots over this. They are demanding that the 'nanny state' bans these events, over the thought that it is the parents who should be the ones to decide.
Lord alone knows what would happen were social workers trying to dictate what parents could see, and do.
A spontaneous explosion of self righteous dirty macs, I shouldn't wonder. |
I guess Cirque Du Soleil, will have to be cancelled. |  | | |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 13:22 - Mar 31 with 795 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 09:42 - Mar 31 by DanTheMan |
To be clear, I don't think it's been doctored, more that we don't know what the event is, whether it was advertised as family friendly etc.
Basically, we have no information to go off of other than trusting someone who is very partisan and pushes a lot of culture wars stuff sharing a very short clip. |
Indeed.
It’s also important to point out the context of this being modern drag like in Ru Paul’s Drag Race rather than a performer suddenly deciding to be overtly sexual. I think this is where it gets uncomfortable but not lewd and, judging by the tweeter’s scandalising nature, no doubt the worse clip and framing they could manage.
And no real difference from Madonna back in the day, Miles Cyrus or many other pop performers. Yes, that could be seen as sexualised too but semi-naked gyration is part of the pop format and performance.
On a side note, I used to watch Ru Paul’s Drag Race a fair bit with my daughters (always an entertaining discussion between us at least) and it’s really not about sexualisation but look and performance. Not my cup of tea – nor my daughters now that they’re late teens and older – but the idea that this is harmful is more than a little weird to me. If anything, I think watching the programme and talking about it helped them realise that sexuality, gender and how people look, dress and perform are natural to that person and their right to be themselves should be celebrated and defended by their fellow humans. Not least, because most if not all of them have been treated appallingly badly outside of the drag and LGBTQ communities. |  |
| |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 14:39 - Mar 31 with 694 views | eireblue |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 12:01 - Mar 31 by HARRY10 |
As expected the righties are over exciting themselves, yet again. Such is their arousal they have become unsure which cliche to us.
Others have apparently watched umpteen of these videos. Where they got them from only they now. And why they feel the need to watch is rather disturbing. All reminiscent of Mary Whitehouse, who watched endless amounts of supposed filth on the TV which she claimed corrupted honest folk.... but not her it would seem.
It is all rather like the Daily Wail who tell us paedophiles are everywhere, whist running pictures of adolescent girls with the tag line 'all grown up'.
And as ever, along with the righties, they have tied themselves in knots over this. They are demanding that the 'nanny state' bans these events, over the thought that it is the parents who should be the ones to decide.
Lord alone knows what would happen were social workers trying to dictate what parents could see, and do.
A spontaneous explosion of self righteous dirty macs, I shouldn't wonder. |
A man in a dirty mac, earlier.
 | | | |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 15:25 - Mar 31 with 641 views | clive_baker |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 13:22 - Mar 31 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed.
It’s also important to point out the context of this being modern drag like in Ru Paul’s Drag Race rather than a performer suddenly deciding to be overtly sexual. I think this is where it gets uncomfortable but not lewd and, judging by the tweeter’s scandalising nature, no doubt the worse clip and framing they could manage.
And no real difference from Madonna back in the day, Miles Cyrus or many other pop performers. Yes, that could be seen as sexualised too but semi-naked gyration is part of the pop format and performance.
On a side note, I used to watch Ru Paul’s Drag Race a fair bit with my daughters (always an entertaining discussion between us at least) and it’s really not about sexualisation but look and performance. Not my cup of tea – nor my daughters now that they’re late teens and older – but the idea that this is harmful is more than a little weird to me. If anything, I think watching the programme and talking about it helped them realise that sexuality, gender and how people look, dress and perform are natural to that person and their right to be themselves should be celebrated and defended by their fellow humans. Not least, because most if not all of them have been treated appallingly badly outside of the drag and LGBTQ communities. |
RuPauls Drag Race has a classification of 15+ on Netflix owing to its sexual references and strong language. As for music videos, I think the same principle applies, and research has shown the majority of parents value age ratings on them. Of course it's is up to the parents to decide what they want their children to be exposed to, nobody is forcing anyone to go and watch anything they don't want to, but there's a reason age ratings exist. I'm not for 'cancelling', and wouldn't take to the streets with a placard. Ultimately the market will dictate if there's sufficient demand for such shows and it's not for me to tell others how to parent their own children. I entirely agree with your premise that exposure to gender in a positive light is highly valuable though, just as it is other races and cultures etc.
It just feels to me that calling out what I deem to be inappropriate in relation to a drag act performance seems so much more controversial than a non drag performance, and almost invariably comes back to the fact its 'because they're men dressed as women', when the reality for many people is no, it's because some aspects don't feel appropriate. I wouldn't put my toddler in the audience of a show that includes gyrating and bondage gear, male or otherwise.
Sadly I don't doubt there's almost certainly a group of bigoted idiots who seem more intent on drawing attention to the appropriateness of drag performers than any non drag performers, which you would think is driven by an underlying bias and prejudice, they can get in the bin. I don't think that means drag artists should be free from challenge, debate or opinion though, for fear of being labelled by association. We should be able to have an adult conversation without silly retorts like 'it’s the same as church'. [Post edited 31 Mar 2023 23:42]
| |
| |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 16:10 - Mar 31 with 606 views | DanTheMan |
| Ban Drag Shows Now!!!!!!!! on 15:25 - Mar 31 by clive_baker |
RuPauls Drag Race has a classification of 15+ on Netflix owing to its sexual references and strong language. As for music videos, I think the same principle applies, and research has shown the majority of parents value age ratings on them. Of course it's is up to the parents to decide what they want their children to be exposed to, nobody is forcing anyone to go and watch anything they don't want to, but there's a reason age ratings exist. I'm not for 'cancelling', and wouldn't take to the streets with a placard. Ultimately the market will dictate if there's sufficient demand for such shows and it's not for me to tell others how to parent their own children. I entirely agree with your premise that exposure to gender in a positive light is highly valuable though, just as it is other races and cultures etc.
It just feels to me that calling out what I deem to be inappropriate in relation to a drag act performance seems so much more controversial than a non drag performance, and almost invariably comes back to the fact its 'because they're men dressed as women', when the reality for many people is no, it's because some aspects don't feel appropriate. I wouldn't put my toddler in the audience of a show that includes gyrating and bondage gear, male or otherwise.
Sadly I don't doubt there's almost certainly a group of bigoted idiots who seem more intent on drawing attention to the appropriateness of drag performers than any non drag performers, which you would think is driven by an underlying bias and prejudice, they can get in the bin. I don't think that means drag artists should be free from challenge, debate or opinion though, for fear of being labelled by association. We should be able to have an adult conversation without silly retorts like 'it’s the same as church'. [Post edited 31 Mar 2023 23:42]
|
Just to prevent confusion, why do you mention trans people here? As far as I'm aware, none of these people are trans. [Post edited 31 Mar 2023 16:17]
| |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
