| This is what we wished for. 09:46 - Apr 16 with 4520 views | kpblues |
Myself and others took flak and the doubters said be careful what you wished for.
Well yesterday was exactly what we wished for.
Owners that care and take the club forward. (Gamechanger v 'absent' Evans)
A progressive manager (Mckenna v 'died in the wool' Mccarthy, Lambert)
A team that drives forward and a solid defence (Luongo, Morsy, Woolfie v 'Sideways' Skuse and that other loser Chambers) that keeps going until literally the last minute even if they are winning comfortably.
and above all hope and excitement for the future.
The futures bright. The futures blue and white. |  |
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| "I couldn't see an effort on the pitch." on 15:06 - Apr 16 with 966 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| "I couldn't see an effort on the pitch." on 14:57 - Apr 16 by Dyland |
I see.
Or rather, I don't.
Whatever. |
Did you enjoy clapping them off following the relegation and its manner? [Post edited 16 Apr 2023 15:12]
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| I don't disagree with any of that on 15:12 - Apr 16 with 951 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 15:05 - Apr 16 by J2BLUE |
People more connected than you have told us of what they were doing to hold things together. The team meetings at their houses etc going on things Hurst didn't bother with. |
The team meetings, this or that and what did follow that? The disgusting performances and lack of effort. Just because Hurst had a temerity to upset them post-Exeter.
They sacked him and after that there was still a problem for them to instigate any effort to try to dodge relegation. What is an excuse for them at this case? | | | |
| As you've said ad nauseam Machers on 15:13 - Apr 16 with 942 views | Steve_M |
| As you've said ad nauseam Machers on 15:05 - Apr 16 by Mach_foreignBlue |
Oh yeah lets not criticise players then, eh? It was all Hurst, Lambert and Cook fault. Never the players, eh? That is how you are seeing things.
Not only Skuse and Chambers. The number of other players. I wasn't seeing a passion, effort, desire and hunger.
Can I remind you what Cook once said about that mob? He once said: 'the mood in the dressing room is the same whether they win or lose'. Not a rocket science what he said as some players hadn't been performing for a long while.
Can you honestly say you were happy with what you had seen on the pitch for a few years prior to the Demolition Job? |
Cook was deflecting from his own failings there Mach.
It really wasn’t down to those two players that we got relegated. [Post edited 16 Apr 2023 17:13]
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| I don't disagree with any of that on 15:15 - Apr 16 with 931 views | J2BLUE |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 15:12 - Apr 16 by Mach_foreignBlue |
The team meetings, this or that and what did follow that? The disgusting performances and lack of effort. Just because Hurst had a temerity to upset them post-Exeter.
They sacked him and after that there was still a problem for them to instigate any effort to try to dodge relegation. What is an excuse for them at this case? |
You're moving the goalposts. You wanted proof they cared didn't you?
Really you just want to dislike them which is your right so go ahead. [Post edited 16 Apr 2023 15:56]
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| I don't disagree with any of that on 15:22 - Apr 16 with 922 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 15:15 - Apr 16 by J2BLUE |
You're moving the goalposts. You wanted proof they cared didn't you?
Really you just want to dislike them which is your right so go ahead. [Post edited 16 Apr 2023 15:56]
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Were you with them during these meetings? Oh they cared so much, the table and performance were an evidence. And their frequent soundbites in the interviews.
But obviously you are entitled to stick for them. | | | |
| As you've said ad nauseam Machers on 15:24 - Apr 16 with 917 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| As you've said ad nauseam Machers on 15:13 - Apr 16 by Steve_M |
Cook was deflecting from his own failings there Mach.
It really wasn’t down to those two players that we got relegated. [Post edited 16 Apr 2023 17:13]
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Not only Cook. The number of players didn't perform for Hurst and Lambert too. That's three managers and it is very telling. Some people will keep defending players though. | | | |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 15:24 - Apr 16 with 919 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 14:48 - Apr 16 by Mach_foreignBlue |
No they didn't. I couldn't see an effort on the pitch. All they did was repeating the same cliches and soundbites in their interviews.
Chambers and Skuse tried to hold everything together......dear me ! By how? The team that got relegated was one of the Championship worst ever ones in the history of its level. That mob didn't even try. |
You can tell how little the players were trying by the fact they all went to the same level and performed at it after they left, can't you?
Your weird obsessive narrative that they hated the club and downed tools and were the problem just doesn't fit the evidence. MM had enabled them to outperform their ability. Once he left, alongside the terrible recruitment, the inability to manage a team meant commitment was never going to be enough.
It is sad that the anti-MM and players of that era will still be playing out even if and when we are well above where they held us. Who knows where we would be had they not done? Maybe we would have got where we are more rapidly. Maybe we would have sunk like a Portsmouth or a Notts County and been taken over by as bad or worse than Evans. We didn't. We are here. Let's just enjoy where we are the football we are now seeing and where we are heading. |  |
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| This is what we wished for. on 15:27 - Apr 16 with 899 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| This is what we wished for. on 14:13 - Apr 16 by Enigma_Blue |
Look at me I was right all along posts are never a good look. But my main issue with the OP is them referring to Chambers as a loser. This is a player who yes may have been limited in ability but played over 400 games for us, never gave anything less than 100% and clearly loved and had passion for the club. To label him as a loser is highly disrespectful in my opinion. |
Yeah I was going to post this. Rather spoilt his OP by the needless attack on Chambo. The guy played with broken bones/concussion at one point. He may not have won trophies with us (it's not all down to him in any case) but he gave his all every game. He's the epitome of a winner when it comes to attitude/conducting yourself. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| As you've said ad nauseam Machers on 15:31 - Apr 16 with 880 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| As you've said ad nauseam Machers on 15:24 - Apr 16 by Mach_foreignBlue |
Not only Cook. The number of players didn't perform for Hurst and Lambert too. That's three managers and it is very telling. Some people will keep defending players though. |
That's evidence that they weren't good enough, Mach. Coupled with terrible recruitment, terrible man management and tactics. If it was simply down to these players why haven't:
Lambert, Cook or Hirst achieved anything at the same level since;
the players achieved anything at the same level elsewhere since?
MM was not attractive football but he over-achieved with the investment he got. That also involved over-achieving with the squad he had. The manager and the players that were left were simply not good enough. Not they had some weird objective in taking their own careers backwards. | |
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| This is what we wished for. on 15:34 - Apr 16 with 868 views | Mullet |
| This is what we wished for. on 14:35 - Apr 16 by J2BLUE |
Fair points. I still think this is much better than we had though and MM's position was untenable. It would have been toxic if he has stayed. I agree most of it was the fans turning on the wrong man but people were bored of the football and crowds were getting lower. Evans probably would have kept him if he could have done.
Evans tied a hand behind our back for far too long. All i'm really arguing is that we have got very lucky. There will always be a risk with future owners but hopefully when it comes time to sell they will make sure to leave the club in good hands.
I would like to see MM back as a guest at a game at some point. I would like to think he and TC would get a nice reception and at least put any ill feeling to bed. |
The problem is that just isn't true. When we started the league like a train, every shot going in the same people were "It can't last" or just blithely cheering it on. They're weathervanes. What they really wanted was being vindicated and to get that winning football. Nothing else.
Objectively we are still behind Rotherham, a team who was at the sharp end of certain people's "lowest point" (when it suited). None of their narrative is consistent, factual or even fair more often than not. It's just more mental gymnastics to save face.
Doing it now is even weirder than ever. We've had some of the most embarrassing and lowest moments ever since. All spun and written off too often, we even see it in this thread in its maddest form.
You're right we've got very lucky, yet it still sees us miles behind so many clubs we used to expect to beat and finish higher than. That alone is very telling. |  |
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| This is what we wished for. on 15:36 - Apr 16 with 856 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| This is what we wished for. on 15:34 - Apr 16 by Mullet |
The problem is that just isn't true. When we started the league like a train, every shot going in the same people were "It can't last" or just blithely cheering it on. They're weathervanes. What they really wanted was being vindicated and to get that winning football. Nothing else.
Objectively we are still behind Rotherham, a team who was at the sharp end of certain people's "lowest point" (when it suited). None of their narrative is consistent, factual or even fair more often than not. It's just more mental gymnastics to save face.
Doing it now is even weirder than ever. We've had some of the most embarrassing and lowest moments ever since. All spun and written off too often, we even see it in this thread in its maddest form.
You're right we've got very lucky, yet it still sees us miles behind so many clubs we used to expect to beat and finish higher than. That alone is very telling. |
All this bitterness because someone dared to have a pop at Saint Mick. We won 6-0 yesterday FFS. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| I don't disagree with any of that on 15:39 - Apr 16 with 834 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 15:24 - Apr 16 by Nthsuffolkblue |
You can tell how little the players were trying by the fact they all went to the same level and performed at it after they left, can't you?
Your weird obsessive narrative that they hated the club and downed tools and were the problem just doesn't fit the evidence. MM had enabled them to outperform their ability. Once he left, alongside the terrible recruitment, the inability to manage a team meant commitment was never going to be enough.
It is sad that the anti-MM and players of that era will still be playing out even if and when we are well above where they held us. Who knows where we would be had they not done? Maybe we would have got where we are more rapidly. Maybe we would have sunk like a Portsmouth or a Notts County and been taken over by as bad or worse than Evans. We didn't. We are here. Let's just enjoy where we are the football we are now seeing and where we are heading. |
Why do you put words into that mouth which I have never said? I have never said they hated the club. They actually loved it here. Not demanding owner/chairman, no pressure just an easy pay day so what was not to like?
Every manager has his own ways to implement. But all three were somehow bad for these primadonnas. Hurst, Lambert, Cook.....all three 'evils', eh,?
Evans as we know was the biggest problem. The player-power was another one.
But as you are saying lets enjoy what we have now. New ownership, new direction and no frauds in our team. | | | |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 15:50 - Apr 16 with 787 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 15:39 - Apr 16 by Mach_foreignBlue |
Why do you put words into that mouth which I have never said? I have never said they hated the club. They actually loved it here. Not demanding owner/chairman, no pressure just an easy pay day so what was not to like?
Every manager has his own ways to implement. But all three were somehow bad for these primadonnas. Hurst, Lambert, Cook.....all three 'evils', eh,?
Evans as we know was the biggest problem. The player-power was another one.
But as you are saying lets enjoy what we have now. New ownership, new direction and no frauds in our team. |
They loved the club so much they didn't try and enjoyed seeing it slide down the leagues. They were "primadonnas" [sic]?
You have a strange obsession here, Mach. Not worth arguing with you if you think this makes sense. | |
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| This is what we wished for. on 15:55 - Apr 16 with 768 views | J2BLUE |
| This is what we wished for. on 15:34 - Apr 16 by Mullet |
The problem is that just isn't true. When we started the league like a train, every shot going in the same people were "It can't last" or just blithely cheering it on. They're weathervanes. What they really wanted was being vindicated and to get that winning football. Nothing else.
Objectively we are still behind Rotherham, a team who was at the sharp end of certain people's "lowest point" (when it suited). None of their narrative is consistent, factual or even fair more often than not. It's just more mental gymnastics to save face.
Doing it now is even weirder than ever. We've had some of the most embarrassing and lowest moments ever since. All spun and written off too often, we even see it in this thread in its maddest form.
You're right we've got very lucky, yet it still sees us miles behind so many clubs we used to expect to beat and finish higher than. That alone is very telling. |
Rotherham are 18th. If we were still drifting along in 15th would that be better? We are behind quite a few clubs we should, on paper, be above but now our ceiling is way higher than theirs will ever be. Rotherham will likely never get to the Premier League. Rotherham are a league one/lower Championship club.
Respect your opinion, just find it utterly baffling to be honest. I think we're probably more respected in the football world right now than we ever were finishing 15th under Evans. | |
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| This is what we wished for. on 15:56 - Apr 16 with 764 views | J2BLUE |
| This is what we wished for. on 15:36 - Apr 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
All this bitterness because someone dared to have a pop at Saint Mick. We won 6-0 yesterday FFS. |
Not sure there is bitterness. Just a difference of opinion on how we got here. | |
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| No I wasn't happy on 15:59 - Apr 16 with 756 views | Dyland |
| As you've said ad nauseam Machers on 15:05 - Apr 16 by Mach_foreignBlue |
Oh yeah lets not criticise players then, eh? It was all Hurst, Lambert and Cook fault. Never the players, eh? That is how you are seeing things.
Not only Skuse and Chambers. The number of other players. I wasn't seeing a passion, effort, desire and hunger.
Can I remind you what Cook once said about that mob? He once said: 'the mood in the dressing room is the same whether they win or lose'. Not a rocket science what he said as some players hadn't been performing for a long while.
Can you honestly say you were happy with what you had seen on the pitch for a few years prior to the Demolition Job? |
Tbh I always felt Chambers was limited at RB if we were to challenge for promotion. E.g.
What I saw was players not being good enough. In a system, individually, whatever. Only you and a small handful saw no effort or desire from Chambers and Skuse etc. Interested to know what their lack of effort and passion for ITFC looked like, apart from the result (of being relegated)....? |  |
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| I don't disagree with any of that on 16:06 - Apr 16 with 745 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| I don't disagree with any of that on 15:50 - Apr 16 by Nthsuffolkblue |
They loved the club so much they didn't try and enjoyed seeing it slide down the leagues. They were "primadonnas" [sic]?
You have a strange obsession here, Mach. Not worth arguing with you if you think this makes sense. |
It's not an obsession. It's just an opinion that doesn't suit yours and your agenda. You keep defending these frauds who took us down without a fight. The worst players in the history of the club. But there you go, your prerogative. | | | |
| This is what we wished for. on 16:14 - Apr 16 with 712 views | Mullet |
| This is what we wished for. on 15:55 - Apr 16 by J2BLUE |
Rotherham are 18th. If we were still drifting along in 15th would that be better? We are behind quite a few clubs we should, on paper, be above but now our ceiling is way higher than theirs will ever be. Rotherham will likely never get to the Premier League. Rotherham are a league one/lower Championship club.
Respect your opinion, just find it utterly baffling to be honest. I think we're probably more respected in the football world right now than we ever were finishing 15th under Evans. |
It's a cold fact, not an opinion. This idea we are somehow beyond where we were because we are paying out massive money and on the cusp of promotion, especially after all that has happened in the years since. You're dealing in hypotheticals which is great and they have merit, but we're not there yet so it makes the reaction to yesterday even more bizarre this morning.
What does "more respected in the football world" even mean and how do you measure it? I can't believe for one second Ashton or McKenna would be sat there thinking the job's done, things are great and we've proven ourselves.
As Town fans we've got a massively insular and emotional experience, but to the outside world we're many different things and still a club on the way back up. Those patting themselves on the back having done nothing but piss and moan are odd, to put it at its politest. | |
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| This is what we wished for. on 16:37 - Apr 16 with 642 views | J2BLUE |
| This is what we wished for. on 16:14 - Apr 16 by Mullet |
It's a cold fact, not an opinion. This idea we are somehow beyond where we were because we are paying out massive money and on the cusp of promotion, especially after all that has happened in the years since. You're dealing in hypotheticals which is great and they have merit, but we're not there yet so it makes the reaction to yesterday even more bizarre this morning.
What does "more respected in the football world" even mean and how do you measure it? I can't believe for one second Ashton or McKenna would be sat there thinking the job's done, things are great and we've proven ourselves.
As Town fans we've got a massively insular and emotional experience, but to the outside world we're many different things and still a club on the way back up. Those patting themselves on the back having done nothing but piss and moan are odd, to put it at its politest. |
Of course we are lower down the pyramid but the celling is so much higher.
People look at our team, style of play, young manager, ownership and set up and can't fail to think we are more relevant than we ever were being 'hard to beat' under Evans. You said it was embarrassing so I think saying we're more respected is fair enough.
No argument with your last paragraph. | |
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| No I wasn't happy on 16:50 - Apr 16 with 600 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| No I wasn't happy on 15:59 - Apr 16 by Dyland |
Tbh I always felt Chambers was limited at RB if we were to challenge for promotion. E.g.
What I saw was players not being good enough. In a system, individually, whatever. Only you and a small handful saw no effort or desire from Chambers and Skuse etc. Interested to know what their lack of effort and passion for ITFC looked like, apart from the result (of being relegated)....? |
Oh there was an effort from Skuse and Chambers and that was in their countless interviews. So many words that you loved to hear. Heroic effort and you and large number of others would buy everything they said:
'we are all disappointed'
'the players are hurt'
'there is still plenty of fight in this team'
'would like to apologise to the fans'
'the performance was unacceptable'
'home form will be vital'
'still plenty of games to play'
''the mood in the dressing room is still positive'
'we all need to take the responsibility'
Plus.... their annual 'apologies' for a poor season after poor season and another poor season.
You did love all of that, didn't you? Must have been moving for you.
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Derby County last season under the guidance of experienced players in Jagielka and Curtis Davies. Big points deduction, loads of young players and what? They nearly avoided the relegation and their fight for the shirt was commendable. That was an effort and desire, not things you are saying about that old Ipswich team who was lamentable. [Post edited 16 Apr 2023 16:52]
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| This is what we wished for. on 17:07 - Apr 16 with 547 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This is what we wished for. on 13:35 - Apr 16 by J2BLUE |
I think a good case could be made that it saved the club. Don't get me wrong, I think the OP trying to take credit is daft but I think we have got incredibly lucky with how things turned out and Evans selling up. I don't think there has been any sign GC would have bought us if we had not gone down.
Again, not saying anyone can take any credit but I do think we have got very lucky.
Perhaps i'm talking b0llocks but I often wonder if we needed to hit rock bottom to get change. Give me this over Evans any day. League one was inevitable with him. Crowds were declining. It was never realistic to keep MM. I think we can appreciate the job he did while acknowledging it was definitely time for him to leave. Hurst being a disaster doesn't make the alternative any better IMO.
TL; DR: although no one can take credit for it or claim to have seen this coming it was for the best and we have got lucky. Whether we are promoted this season or not, the future is very bright. |
I think there's a pretty strong argument that we needed relegation to force Evans' hand, although I'm sure Phil will remember if there was talk of actively looking for new owners earlier than that.
We needed to end up in rehab before someone offered us some help, as it were. A lot cheaper for Gamechanger too I'd imagine. |  |
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| This is what we wished for. on 17:12 - Apr 16 with 541 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This is what we wished for. on 14:13 - Apr 16 by Enigma_Blue |
Look at me I was right all along posts are never a good look. But my main issue with the OP is them referring to Chambers as a loser. This is a player who yes may have been limited in ability but played over 400 games for us, never gave anything less than 100% and clearly loved and had passion for the club. To label him as a loser is highly disrespectful in my opinion. |
Totally agree with you there. He wore his heart on his sleeve, always got stuck in and was a fantastic servant off the pitch too. To lay blame at his door is just short-sighted. Was he good enough towards the end? Probably not, although I suspect he'd have been fine with better players around him for another year or two. He or Skuse most certainly weren't the problem (as shown by our continued decline after they left). | |
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| No I wasn't happy on 17:22 - Apr 16 with 510 views | Enigma_Blue |
| No I wasn't happy on 16:50 - Apr 16 by Mach_foreignBlue |
Oh there was an effort from Skuse and Chambers and that was in their countless interviews. So many words that you loved to hear. Heroic effort and you and large number of others would buy everything they said:
'we are all disappointed'
'the players are hurt'
'there is still plenty of fight in this team'
'would like to apologise to the fans'
'the performance was unacceptable'
'home form will be vital'
'still plenty of games to play'
''the mood in the dressing room is still positive'
'we all need to take the responsibility'
Plus.... their annual 'apologies' for a poor season after poor season and another poor season.
You did love all of that, didn't you? Must have been moving for you.
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Derby County last season under the guidance of experienced players in Jagielka and Curtis Davies. Big points deduction, loads of young players and what? They nearly avoided the relegation and their fight for the shirt was commendable. That was an effort and desire, not things you are saying about that old Ipswich team who was lamentable. [Post edited 16 Apr 2023 16:52]
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Derby nearly avoided relegation last season because despite the points deduction they still had a half decent squad which included players such as Forsythe, Kazim -Richards, Stearman, Sibley,Tom Lawrence, Ravel Morrison, Curtis Davies and Rooney has shown already that he is a half decent manager.
The season we got relegated we had players like Nsiala, Nolan, Kayden Jackson, Quaner, Gwion Edwards, Gerken, Harrison, Spence, Dawkins, Elder, Donacien, Emmanuel, Graham. Managed by the incompetent Hurst and the fraud Lambert.
There really is no comparison. [Post edited 16 Apr 2023 17:30]
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| This is what we wished for. on 17:29 - Apr 16 with 483 views | BlueBadger |
I'm not sure that years spent in the wilderness of League One was what anyone wished for mate.
And it wasn't Mick who got us relegated, it was the bloke who 'just gets it'. [Post edited 16 Apr 2023 17:38]
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| As ever you've inferred all sorts of sh1te about me there on 17:36 - Apr 16 with 460 views | Dyland |
| No I wasn't happy on 16:50 - Apr 16 by Mach_foreignBlue |
Oh there was an effort from Skuse and Chambers and that was in their countless interviews. So many words that you loved to hear. Heroic effort and you and large number of others would buy everything they said:
'we are all disappointed'
'the players are hurt'
'there is still plenty of fight in this team'
'would like to apologise to the fans'
'the performance was unacceptable'
'home form will be vital'
'still plenty of games to play'
''the mood in the dressing room is still positive'
'we all need to take the responsibility'
Plus.... their annual 'apologies' for a poor season after poor season and another poor season.
You did love all of that, didn't you? Must have been moving for you.
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Derby County last season under the guidance of experienced players in Jagielka and Curtis Davies. Big points deduction, loads of young players and what? They nearly avoided the relegation and their fight for the shirt was commendable. That was an effort and desire, not things you are saying about that old Ipswich team who was lamentable. [Post edited 16 Apr 2023 16:52]
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You're wrong. I paid zero attention to any of their interviews. I don't really bother with that generally. I'm talking about the efforts on the pitch. Which were sh1te a lot of the time, but I didn't ever notice a lack of effort or desire, from Chambers and Skuse anyway. That is regardless of what I think about their footballing ability. | |
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