| Raab ‘resigns’ 09:51 - Apr 21 with 3237 views | SitfcB |
[Post edited 21 Apr 2023 9:52]
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 17:01 - Apr 21 with 768 views | DJR |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 16:43 - Apr 21 by Churchman |
Tolley and High Court are correct on this. Raab, as ever, is wrong.
He knew what he was doing too. Bullies always do. He’s just trying to wheedle out of it. It’s the Civil Servants fault, I’m just trying to get things done, I needed to spur them into action, I blame Gladstone the cat, kicking somebody around is encouragement not bullying, I’m good, they are all lazy and useless etc etc. I’ve heard it all before. Seen it too.
Raab: you’re a weak unpleasant inadequate individual who was hopeless at your job. Suck it up, ya plank. |
First they came for the Civil Servants! Or are they suggesting a different definition of bullying for Civil Servants?
This from the Telegraph.
"Senior government sources have told The Telegraph that both Mr Sunak and Simon Case, the Cabinet Secretary, have sympathy with Mr Raab’s stance, and believe that civil servants should be “resilient”.
One source suggested Mr Sunak “might change the rules in future” because he agrees with Mr Raab that the bar for the definition of bullying is “too low”.
This (if true) confirms my view that Case is not fit to be Cabinet Secretary, and suggests the Tories want to turn things back to the days when bosses could do what they like. Rather ironic on a day when large firms are quitting the CBI. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 17:58]
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 17:11 - Apr 21 with 730 views | eireblue |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 11:21 - Apr 21 by ElderGrizzly |
And of course he has run to The Telegraph to push the woke angle a bit more.
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He knocked that out quite quickly, it’s almost as though it was planned, surely Rishi was diligently reading the whole report yesterday. |  | | |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 17:15 - Apr 21 with 709 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 17:11 - Apr 21 by eireblue |
He knocked that out quite quickly, it’s almost as though it was planned, surely Rishi was diligently reading the whole report yesterday. |
They are saying Raab (or his legal team) had sight of the report before it was finally released to him.
Hence softening and some of the quick comments out to the media. |  | | |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 17:21 - Apr 21 with 685 views | DJR |
BBC happily playing to the Raab narrative.
"Chris Mason opened his interview by asking Dominic Raab if he thought he had been stitched up." | | | |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 17:24 - Apr 21 with 661 views | factual_blue |
It's a good job sunak didn't appoint the KC who carried out the investigation.
Oh.... |  |
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 17:24 - Apr 21 with 651 views | Churchman |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 17:01 - Apr 21 by DJR |
First they came for the Civil Servants! Or are they suggesting a different definition of bullying for Civil Servants?
This from the Telegraph.
"Senior government sources have told The Telegraph that both Mr Sunak and Simon Case, the Cabinet Secretary, have sympathy with Mr Raab’s stance, and believe that civil servants should be “resilient”.
One source suggested Mr Sunak “might change the rules in future” because he agrees with Mr Raab that the bar for the definition of bullying is “too low”.
This (if true) confirms my view that Case is not fit to be Cabinet Secretary, and suggests the Tories want to turn things back to the days when bosses could do what they like. Rather ironic on a day when large firms are quitting the CBI. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 17:58]
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Define ‘resilient’. So if you fail to say yes sir no sir after receiving a torrent of abuse, including personal, you are not resilient? By definition that means you are weak. Nonsense. There is a correct way to speak to people. If you do that, it’ll be far more productive than intimidating them, being rude and/or abusive.
Many people on this board have worked under considerable pressure. Some of course still do. For me, that was never a reason to not speak to people properly. There’s nothing wrong with being demanding. Most who worked with me will tell you I was. There’s nothing wrong with setting high expectations. But I like to believe I worked in the right way with people. It’s really not difficult - though clearly it is for the born to rule mob.
Bullying is something I’ve always loathed and tried to do something about, whenever I’ve seen it. Those like Raab who engage in it are pathetic. |  | | |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 17:29 - Apr 21 with 626 views | factual_blue |
He's talking absolute tosh about 'activist' Civil Servants 'blocking' government policies and plans. They'll have been doing what they've always done; providing robust challenge, pointing the financial and legal consequences of any given course of action etc etc. That is actually why they are there.
The trouble is we have a tory party that's developed a mindset that isn't at home to intellectually rigorous challenge. | |
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 17:33 - Apr 21 with 616 views | lowhouseblue |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 17:29 - Apr 21 by factual_blue |
He's talking absolute tosh about 'activist' Civil Servants 'blocking' government policies and plans. They'll have been doing what they've always done; providing robust challenge, pointing the financial and legal consequences of any given course of action etc etc. That is actually why they are there.
The trouble is we have a tory party that's developed a mindset that isn't at home to intellectually rigorous challenge. |
reading twtd has always reassured me about the strict political impartiality of civil servants. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 17:42 - Apr 21 with 605 views | factual_blue |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 14:19 - Apr 21 by DJR |
I worked in the Cabinet Office under Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown, in an office that had close dealings with ministers from all departments.
In all those years, I always felt that ministers were very supportive of the Civil Service.
That all changed for me in 2010 when I sensed the influx of a number of ministers, and a party generally, hostile to the Civil Service.
Luckily, I left the Civil Service in 2011, so didn't get to see the full horrors. But I think the change from 2010 is indicative of a new breed of politicians in the Tory party of very low calibre and integrity. |
I'm reliably informed that in a number of Departments from 2010-2014 (when I took the money and ran) there were discussions close to fisticuffs involving some of the more barking mad Secretaries of State and their senior officials.
As Private Eye would say, the tory formerly known as The Quiet Man is 94. | |
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 17:48 - Apr 21 with 600 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
Cheltenham MP Alex Chalk finally gets a top job.
After doing nothing for his constituency, he manages to bum lick his way into cabinet. (Went to school with Rishi).
Ah well, he'll be gone in two years. |  |
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 17:51 - Apr 21 with 595 views | DJR |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 17:33 - Apr 21 by lowhouseblue |
reading twtd has always reassured me about the strict political impartiality of civil servants. |
When it comes to supposed bias in the Civil Servants, it is really only those working on policy that really matter. And I can't imagine there are many more than a few thousand of those.
After all, the fact that a person in a Job Centre in Margate has political views really has no bearing.
My experience of those working in Whitehall is that very few were really political. In the main, I would have regarded many of them as conservative with a c.
In any event, politically neutrality is drummed into Civil Servants, so that their own views play absolutely no part in policy formation. The parallel is with those in the legal profession who will take on a case, and aim to get the best result for the client, whatever their particular feelings about the case or client .
And surely we don't want to go down the US route of a politicised civil service which changes with the President? [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 18:00]
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 18:02 - Apr 21 with 554 views | Churchman |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 17:51 - Apr 21 by DJR |
When it comes to supposed bias in the Civil Servants, it is really only those working on policy that really matter. And I can't imagine there are many more than a few thousand of those.
After all, the fact that a person in a Job Centre in Margate has political views really has no bearing.
My experience of those working in Whitehall is that very few were really political. In the main, I would have regarded many of them as conservative with a c.
In any event, politically neutrality is drummed into Civil Servants, so that their own views play absolutely no part in policy formation. The parallel is with those in the legal profession who will take on a case, and aim to get the best result for the client, whatever their particular feelings about the case or client .
And surely we don't want to go down the US route of a politicised civil service which changes with the President? [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 18:00]
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I worked in Whitehall for a business area in a Department whose title had ‘Policy’ in it. The clue is in the name. I had no idea what the politics of my colleagues were. It just didn’t work like that. It was all about getting the job done. Politics just didn’t enter into it.
Your post is 100% correct. | | | |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 18:06 - Apr 21 with 548 views | DJR |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 16:43 - Apr 21 by Churchman |
Tolley and High Court are correct on this. Raab, as ever, is wrong.
He knew what he was doing too. Bullies always do. He’s just trying to wheedle out of it. It’s the Civil Servants fault, I’m just trying to get things done, I needed to spur them into action, I blame Gladstone the cat, kicking somebody around is encouragement not bullying, I’m good, they are all lazy and useless etc etc. I’ve heard it all before. Seen it too.
Raab: you’re a weak unpleasant inadequate individual who was hopeless at your job. Suck it up, ya plank. |
This from Sam Freedman confirms what you say.
"Am going to do a substantive post on Raab and bullying for tomorrow but the idea that his behaviour was necessary to drive performance can be refuted by the absence of a single substantive achievement in 7 years as a minister and 5 in cabinet." | | | |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 18:12 - Apr 21 with 544 views | Churchman |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 18:02 - Apr 21 by Churchman |
I worked in Whitehall for a business area in a Department whose title had ‘Policy’ in it. The clue is in the name. I had no idea what the politics of my colleagues were. It just didn’t work like that. It was all about getting the job done. Politics just didn’t enter into it.
Your post is 100% correct. |
I would say to Raab:
‘come on, don’t be a whinging coward, be a man and name and shame the activist civil servants - with evidence. Let’s bring this out in the open and give them a chance to respond. Obviously given the code CS operates under these activists should be fired, assuming you have the evidence.’
But Raab knows the CS cannot respond. In other words he’s just thrashing around but in doing so provided the evidence in public of the kind of individual he is. | | | |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 18:24 - Apr 21 with 521 views | DJR |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 18:12 - Apr 21 by Churchman |
I would say to Raab:
‘come on, don’t be a whinging coward, be a man and name and shame the activist civil servants - with evidence. Let’s bring this out in the open and give them a chance to respond. Obviously given the code CS operates under these activists should be fired, assuming you have the evidence.’
But Raab knows the CS cannot respond. In other words he’s just thrashing around but in doing so provided the evidence in public of the kind of individual he is. |
Yes, normally it's the victim you would hear in a case like this not involving the Civil Service, but all we are hearing in this case is the perpetrator's side. | | | |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 18:32 - Apr 21 with 515 views | Churchman |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 18:24 - Apr 21 by DJR |
Yes, normally it's the victim you would hear in a case like this not involving the Civil Service, but all we are hearing in this case is the perpetrator's side. |
Exactly - and those of us who’ve worked in that world know why he’s coming out in the media like this. | | | |
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