| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... 12:53 - Jun 12 with 5155 views | itfcjoe |
....did the virus start in a wet market, or next to the top secret military operation investigating coronavirus etc by a state who will kill everyone who steps out of line.
Obviously not talking about a deliberate leak here, but some fascinating stuff from Sunday Times Insight team, who are the best in the business
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/inside-wuhan-lab-covid-pandemic-china-america
Tweets from one of journo's - George Arbuthnott @arbuthnoo - copy and pasted here
REVEALED: Scientists in Wuhan working alongside the Chinese military combined the world’s most deadly coronaviruses to create a new mutant virus - just before the Covid-19 outbreak.
US investigators with access to top-secret intelligence told Insight they believe Chinese scientists were running a covert project of dangerous experiments, which caused a leak from the Wuhan Institute of Virology and started the Covid-19 outbreak.
The Sunday Times has reviewed hundreds of documents, including previously confidential reports, internal memos, scientific papers and email correspondence that has been obtained through sources or by freedom of information campaigners in the three years since the pandemic began
The Wuhan institute was engaged in increasingly risky experiments on coronaviruses it gathered from bat caves in southern China. Initially, it made its findings public and argued the associated risks were justified because the work might help develop vaccines
This changed in 2016 after researchers discovered a new type of coronavirus closely related to Covid-19 in a mineshaft in Mojiang where people had died from coronavirus symptoms
Rather than warning the world, the Chinese authorities did not report the fatalities. The viruses were transported back to the Wuhan institute and a veil was drawn over its research on the mine viruses.
According to the US investigators, the classified programme was to make the mineshaft viruses more infectious to humans.
They believe this led to the creation of the Covid-19 virus, and it leaked out into Wuhan after a laboratory accident
The investigators say the project was kept secret because it was funded by the Chinese military. Evidence shows People's Liberation Army scientists were working alongside the Wuhan institute on experiments with the world’s most deadly coronaviruses in the lead up to the pandemic.
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 16:33 - Jun 12 with 1523 views | PhilTWTD |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 16:19 - Jun 12 by factual_blue |
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That's the one! |  | | |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 18:12 - Jun 12 with 1422 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:22 - Jun 12 by Lord_Lucan |
Didn't most normal people come to this conclusion about three years ago? |
I'm pretty sure that was comprehensively dismissed on here as being even remotely likely. Where's GB's archivist when you need her/him/them? |  |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 18:32 - Jun 12 with 1391 views | StokieBlue |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 18:12 - Jun 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I'm pretty sure that was comprehensively dismissed on here as being even remotely likely. Where's GB's archivist when you need her/him/them? |
It was certainly questioned and pushed back on because the evidence from the scientific community pointed towards a natural origin. To come to another conclusion at the time wouldn't have been based on the science or the evidence.
If either the science or evidence subsequently changes then it's right to take another look at the theory but to try and score points against people for following the scientific method and the evidence at the time is a bit odd.
SB [Post edited 12 Jun 2023 18:45]
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 19:03 - Jun 12 with 1326 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 15:56 - Jun 12 by PhilTWTD |
My hybrid theory is that it came from a pangolin who was working at the labs. |
Or a scientist who had his own wet market stall? |  |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 19:08 - Jun 12 with 1318 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 18:32 - Jun 12 by StokieBlue |
It was certainly questioned and pushed back on because the evidence from the scientific community pointed towards a natural origin. To come to another conclusion at the time wouldn't have been based on the science or the evidence.
If either the science or evidence subsequently changes then it's right to take another look at the theory but to try and score points against people for following the scientific method and the evidence at the time is a bit odd.
SB [Post edited 12 Jun 2023 18:45]
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Science is funny like that isn't it. If only people could learn to be less certain in their pushing back it might help.
I think point scoring is perhaps more your boat to have perceived my comment as such. Think of it more as a general point for people to learn from. | |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 21:06 - Jun 12 with 1237 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 19:08 - Jun 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Science is funny like that isn't it. If only people could learn to be less certain in their pushing back it might help.
I think point scoring is perhaps more your boat to have perceived my comment as such. Think of it more as a general point for people to learn from. |
At the time anyone who suggest anything other than a bat or similar was labelled a tvvat, or even a meat eating tvvat.
It's as if experts aren't always correct and one should wash their own brains now and again. |  |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 21:40 - Jun 12 with 1170 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 21:06 - Jun 12 by Lord_Lucan |
At the time anyone who suggest anything other than a bat or similar was labelled a tvvat, or even a meat eating tvvat.
It's as if experts aren't always correct and one should wash their own brains now and again. |
One problem with science is that it does not look for all possibilities equally and is wrapped up in politics and finance like everything else.
The presence of a biological weapons research place should have rang the 'certainty alarm bells' of a few. | |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 21:59 - Jun 12 with 1159 views | StokieBlue |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 21:40 - Jun 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
One problem with science is that it does not look for all possibilities equally and is wrapped up in politics and finance like everything else.
The presence of a biological weapons research place should have rang the 'certainty alarm bells' of a few. |
"Of a few".
Not scoring points through right?
You misunderstand science if you think that all possibilities should be treated equally. For instance, if I was researching carrots it's clearly not right for me to treat the competing theories that they are vegetables or planets equally as the weight of evidence doesn't support equality between the possibilities.
There isn't any actual evidence in the report which confirms a lab leak so given this, your triumphalism is all a bit premature.
Correlation doesn't automatically equal causation. We need far more information before a change in the theory of the origin of C19 is going to be accepted. That doesn't mean it won't be changed, but the evidence needs to support it more than other conclusions. I hope that evidence is available either way because unfortunately if it exists it's unlikely to ever be released from China. It's also worth noting that the FBI hasn't made the evidence it's based it's conclusions on available to the global scientific community.
Imagine the political and legal implications for China if it was confirmed as even an accidental lab leak and they covered it up.
SB | | | |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 22:12 - Jun 12 with 1082 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 21:59 - Jun 12 by StokieBlue |
"Of a few".
Not scoring points through right?
You misunderstand science if you think that all possibilities should be treated equally. For instance, if I was researching carrots it's clearly not right for me to treat the competing theories that they are vegetables or planets equally as the weight of evidence doesn't support equality between the possibilities.
There isn't any actual evidence in the report which confirms a lab leak so given this, your triumphalism is all a bit premature.
Correlation doesn't automatically equal causation. We need far more information before a change in the theory of the origin of C19 is going to be accepted. That doesn't mean it won't be changed, but the evidence needs to support it more than other conclusions. I hope that evidence is available either way because unfortunately if it exists it's unlikely to ever be released from China. It's also worth noting that the FBI hasn't made the evidence it's based it's conclusions on available to the global scientific community.
Imagine the political and legal implications for China if it was confirmed as even an accidental lab leak and they covered it up.
SB |
Nope, still just an observation.
Regarding your carrots...let's say you're a scientist working for Monsanto and looking into the usefulness of round up, do you think that scientist researches all outcomes equally? Cheers though, your ability to attempt to belittle in order to feel superior is unsurpassed!
Feck me you really are on one...."triumphalism"...I still don't know, how could I, but if it is confirmed it will likely not be science that confirms it in this instance. | |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 22:24 - Jun 12 with 1059 views | Coastalblue |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 15:51 - Jun 12 by Sarge |
These are Chinese secure labs though, which means if they’re anything like everything else made there they will be low quality, crappily put together knock offs of something else. It’s also generally a good idea to believe the opposite of whatever China is saying so if it does end up looking like it leaked from a lab it’ll be added to the pile of things that “totally didn’t happen” like the Tiananmen square massacre and the Uyghur genocide. |
You mean the same people who were going to build our nuclear power stations for us? |  |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 03:32 - Jun 13 with 914 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 21:06 - Jun 12 by Lord_Lucan |
At the time anyone who suggest anything other than a bat or similar was labelled a tvvat, or even a meat eating tvvat.
It's as if experts aren't always correct and one should wash their own brains now and again. |
To be fair the vast majority on were listening to every word by breakfast TV Doctors who were telling you to wear masks while swimming and wouldn’t even question data from the likes professor Neil Ferguson who was wrong at every turn. Give it a few more years… |  | | |
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