| Could this Wagner coup 10:32 - Jun 24 with 11076 views | Bobsthename |
go to some way of ending the Russia / Ukraine conflict i’m hoping it would . |  | | |  |
| Could this Wagner coup on 11:27 - Jun 25 with 1936 views | StokieBlue |
Why do you assume others don't have knowledge of Russian culture and thinking? Using that without evidence is surely also introducing bias?
What truth is lacking from the NATO side?
SB |  |
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| [Redacted] on 11:34 - Jun 25 with 1920 views | victorywilhappen |
| Could this Wagner coup on 11:27 - Jun 25 by StokieBlue |
Why do you assume others don't have knowledge of Russian culture and thinking? Using that without evidence is surely also introducing bias?
What truth is lacking from the NATO side?
SB |
[Redacted] |  | | |
| [Redacted] on 11:44 - Jun 25 with 1882 views | victorywilhappen |
| Could this Wagner coup on 11:19 - Jun 25 by J2BLUE |
I think people are buying into this 'master chess player' idea with Putin.
Putin is terrified of rebellion (Gaddafi video) and paranoid as they come (long tables in meetings etc). There seems very little chance he would do anything to tarnish his own image especially when there was a much easier way.
The Wagner fighters being welcomed into the city (however much the residents may have felt compelled to do this) will not have pleased him. It only takes one domino to fall and the situation can rapidly change.
I've seen nothing to suggest this was staged and plenty to suggest it wasn't. If it was staged, Putin would have been seen all over Moscow without any military in sight so he could project his strongman image and show confidence that they had no chance of getting anywhere near Moscow.
When the Russians were approaching Kyiv Zelensky stayed and made sure he was seen. When this lot rolled into Russia it looks like Putin immediately fled the capital. If he's trolling us, he's doing it wrong. |
[Redacted] | | | |
| Could this Wagner coup on 11:44 - Jun 25 with 1883 views | PhilTWTD |
| Could this Wagner coup on 11:19 - Jun 25 by J2BLUE |
I think people are buying into this 'master chess player' idea with Putin.
Putin is terrified of rebellion (Gaddafi video) and paranoid as they come (long tables in meetings etc). There seems very little chance he would do anything to tarnish his own image especially when there was a much easier way.
The Wagner fighters being welcomed into the city (however much the residents may have felt compelled to do this) will not have pleased him. It only takes one domino to fall and the situation can rapidly change.
I've seen nothing to suggest this was staged and plenty to suggest it wasn't. If it was staged, Putin would have been seen all over Moscow without any military in sight so he could project his strongman image and show confidence that they had no chance of getting anywhere near Moscow.
When the Russians were approaching Kyiv Zelensky stayed and made sure he was seen. When this lot rolled into Russia it looks like Putin immediately fled the capital. If he's trolling us, he's doing it wrong. |
If the last year has taught us anything it's that Putin is far from a master tactician. |  | | |
| Could this Wagner coup on 11:56 - Jun 25 with 1830 views | PhilTWTD |
Plenty of experts on Russia see things very differently to you, however! | | | |
| [Redacted] on 12:08 - Jun 25 with 1809 views | victorywilhappen |
| Could this Wagner coup on 11:56 - Jun 25 by PhilTWTD |
Plenty of experts on Russia see things very differently to you, however! |
[Redacted] | | | |
| Could this Wagner coup on 12:15 - Jun 25 with 1785 views | PhilTWTD |
Can't remember what I might have said re Bakhmut but most of the opinion I read outlined exactly what proved to be the case; that Ukraine stuck in to drain Russian resources and troops as they fought for a target which was nothing more than an attempt to be able to hail a victory. Bakhmut will be back in Ukrainian hands sooner rather than later. | | | |
| Could this Wagner coup on 12:34 - Jun 25 with 1756 views | PhilTWTD |
| Could this Wagner coup on 12:15 - Jun 25 by PhilTWTD |
Can't remember what I might have said re Bakhmut but most of the opinion I read outlined exactly what proved to be the case; that Ukraine stuck in to drain Russian resources and troops as they fought for a target which was nothing more than an attempt to be able to hail a victory. Bakhmut will be back in Ukrainian hands sooner rather than later. |
As it happens, I've just found what I wrote on Bakhmut while looking for another post.
The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. by PhilTWTD 6 Mar 2023 20:14Indeed, from what I've read there's little strategically important about Bakhmut. Ukraine is not unhappy for Russia to be throwing men - literally - and resources at it for no wider purpose than a brief positive headline. I read somewhere that Russia is losing seven soldiers to every one of Ukraine's. And Russia eventually won't be able to replace the men they're losing and they're increasingly short of ammo and equipment.
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| Could this Wagner coup on 14:37 - Jun 25 with 1676 views | WeWereZombies |
What credibility can be attributed to this latest BBC report ?
'The man behind the rebellion, Yevgeny Prigozhin, is a free man. Despite trying to topple the military leadership of Russia, the charge of armed mutiny against him has been dropped. But we don't know all the details of the agreement that was reached between the Kremlin and Wagner.
Russia analysts do not expect Prigozhin to disappear quietly into the night.
The mercenary leader - who has been a very vocal figurehead for tens of thousands of fighters in Ukraine - has also been an important figure for President Putin, operating in the shadows for a long time.
He has spent years been doing dirty work for the Kremlin, from fighting in Syria to fighting in Ukraine in 2014, when it annexed Crimea.
But after challenging Mr Putin's authority - and some argue humiliating the Russian leader - questions about what guarantees he was given for his security, and his role going forward are still to be answered.
Observers are questioning how much control Belarusian leader Alexander Lukashenko will be able to exert over Prigozhin - if indeed he does go to Minsk - and, should Wagner forces follow him, what threat they will pose to Russia, Belarus and Ukraine.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66012906 |  |
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| [Redacted] on 14:45 - Jun 25 with 1663 views | victorywilhappen |
| Could this Wagner coup on 14:37 - Jun 25 by WeWereZombies |
What credibility can be attributed to this latest BBC report ?
'The man behind the rebellion, Yevgeny Prigozhin, is a free man. Despite trying to topple the military leadership of Russia, the charge of armed mutiny against him has been dropped. But we don't know all the details of the agreement that was reached between the Kremlin and Wagner.
Russia analysts do not expect Prigozhin to disappear quietly into the night.
The mercenary leader - who has been a very vocal figurehead for tens of thousands of fighters in Ukraine - has also been an important figure for President Putin, operating in the shadows for a long time.
He has spent years been doing dirty work for the Kremlin, from fighting in Syria to fighting in Ukraine in 2014, when it annexed Crimea.
But after challenging Mr Putin's authority - and some argue humiliating the Russian leader - questions about what guarantees he was given for his security, and his role going forward are still to be answered.
Observers are questioning how much control Belarusian leader Alexander Lukashenko will be able to exert over Prigozhin - if indeed he does go to Minsk - and, should Wagner forces follow him, what threat they will pose to Russia, Belarus and Ukraine.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66012906 |
[Redacted] | | | |
| [Redacted] on 15:58 - Jun 26 with 1503 views | victorywilhappen |
| Could this Wagner coup on 14:37 - Jun 25 by WeWereZombies |
What credibility can be attributed to this latest BBC report ?
'The man behind the rebellion, Yevgeny Prigozhin, is a free man. Despite trying to topple the military leadership of Russia, the charge of armed mutiny against him has been dropped. But we don't know all the details of the agreement that was reached between the Kremlin and Wagner.
Russia analysts do not expect Prigozhin to disappear quietly into the night.
The mercenary leader - who has been a very vocal figurehead for tens of thousands of fighters in Ukraine - has also been an important figure for President Putin, operating in the shadows for a long time.
He has spent years been doing dirty work for the Kremlin, from fighting in Syria to fighting in Ukraine in 2014, when it annexed Crimea.
But after challenging Mr Putin's authority - and some argue humiliating the Russian leader - questions about what guarantees he was given for his security, and his role going forward are still to be answered.
Observers are questioning how much control Belarusian leader Alexander Lukashenko will be able to exert over Prigozhin - if indeed he does go to Minsk - and, should Wagner forces follow him, what threat they will pose to Russia, Belarus and Ukraine.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66012906 |
[Redacted] | | | |
| Could this Wagner coup on 20:36 - Jun 26 with 1393 views | Trequartista |
| Could this Wagner coup on 20:33 - Jun 24 by BlueNomad |
Well that didn’t last long! |
He got so far up the road and thought 'Sod this for a game of soldiers' |  |
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| Could this Wagner coup on 20:44 - Jun 26 with 1389 views | WeWereZombies |
Putin's latest broadcast is quite a feat of dissimulation, Russia is all back together...already, majority of Wagner soldiers are patriots...but the ones who fired on State military ?
Then there is this OK'ing of Wagner setting up in another country. Lukashenko may have brokered the deal but being told that you are having a unit of soldiers who are not quite Russian military in your patch cannot be that comforting to the Belorussian public.
And the mutiny would have been suppressed anyway...sure it would, but then you wouldn't have had Wagner to keep Ukrainian advances at bay so much, would you ? | |
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| Could this Wagner coup on 22:00 - Jun 26 with 1361 views | Trequartista |
| Could this Wagner coup on 20:44 - Jun 26 by WeWereZombies |
Putin's latest broadcast is quite a feat of dissimulation, Russia is all back together...already, majority of Wagner soldiers are patriots...but the ones who fired on State military ?
Then there is this OK'ing of Wagner setting up in another country. Lukashenko may have brokered the deal but being told that you are having a unit of soldiers who are not quite Russian military in your patch cannot be that comforting to the Belorussian public.
And the mutiny would have been suppressed anyway...sure it would, but then you wouldn't have had Wagner to keep Ukrainian advances at bay so much, would you ? |
He repeatedly attacks the organisers of the mutiny. The media keep interpreting this as Prigozhin but he never names him. He even thanks Wagner soldiers and commanders and says the rebellion was revenge for a failed counter-offensive.
The media don't seem to have caught on that he is trying to spin it to the Russian people that the "organisers" are Ukraine and the West, not Wagner. [Post edited 26 Jun 2023 22:02]
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| Could this Wagner coup on 21:46 - Aug 27 with 769 views | WeWereZombies |
| Could this Wagner coup on 22:49 - Jun 24 by Churchman |
I’ll be amazed if he makes Bargain Hunt on Monday.
His Officers are also dead men walking. If you are Putin, you are not going to faff about. He’s got 25k volunteers for human wave duties too. Putin doesn’t do merciful or forgiveness. Dictators cannot afford any of that.
For Ukraine, now might be the time to counter attack, if they have the strength and any sort of plan. |
Well he did make Bargain Hunt but I hold my hand up and clearly I was wrong in thinking he had a long term future in this game, the confirmation of his death proves your point. But I wonder why it took a couple of months, what needed to be in place or sorted out before the dirty deed was done ? | |
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| Could this Wagner coup on 22:00 - Aug 27 with 717 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Could this Wagner coup on 21:46 - Aug 27 by WeWereZombies |
Well he did make Bargain Hunt but I hold my hand up and clearly I was wrong in thinking he had a long term future in this game, the confirmation of his death proves your point. But I wonder why it took a couple of months, what needed to be in place or sorted out before the dirty deed was done ? |
The dispersal and fragmentation of Wagner forces, and the opportunity to take out all the credible Wagner leaders in one "accident". | | | |
| Could this Wagner coup on 22:48 - Aug 27 with 664 views | Churchman |
| Could this Wagner coup on 21:46 - Aug 27 by WeWereZombies |
Well he did make Bargain Hunt but I hold my hand up and clearly I was wrong in thinking he had a long term future in this game, the confirmation of his death proves your point. But I wonder why it took a couple of months, what needed to be in place or sorted out before the dirty deed was done ? |
He certainly did make Bargain Hunt and two months more. I thought he’d be disposed of in hours so I was wrong. I’m sure Putin had his reasons, not least trying to work out who his accomplices are (they’ll have to go too) and how to deal with Wagner, especially while dealing with Ukraine.
In percentage terms against the size of the Russian military Wagner is tiny, but it still had to be dealt with. Putin’s war is internal and external.
Putin is a typical dictator. A really simple man fundamentally driven by fear. They’re all like that. Whoever they kill can never be enough. They’re like Terminators. They can’t be reasoned with or appeased. They have to be dealt with eventually internally or externally - at a cost of lives and horror. Many of them innocent. |  | | |
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