| House Purchase - price negotiation 17:20 - Aug 2 with 3205 views | Zx1988 |
After some input from the hive mind please... Has anyone had any experience of renegotiating a house price in the current market, or in a similar market?
We've had an offer accepted on a property, but enquiries have revealed that a garage conversion doesn't have building regs (and no evidence of it having been done in line with regs), and the property has been left in a poor state by the outgoing tenants (worse than we anticipated off the back of our viewings whilst the tenants were in-situ).
We've gone back to the agent to reduce our offer by a little under 3.5%, and have outlined that it's based on the above as well as the original negotiated price not being supported by market evidence (an identical property has had a sale agreed at £16k below asking-price, which is what we've currently agreed as a purchase price, as well as other similar sales not justifying the agreed price). So I'm hoping we've made clear that we've put consideration into it, and aren't just chancing our arm.
To anyone with experience of such negotiation, how did you get on? Was it fairly easy to reach an agreement, or did you have to (threaten to) pull out in order to get movement from the vendors?
Notwithstanding the above, we seem to have on our side that the market has fallen since we initially agreed the sale, and the fact that the vendors are now having to make mortgage payments on the property without the rental income to offset them.
Any reasoned thoughts? [Post edited 2 Aug 2023 17:21]
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| House Purchase - price negotiation on 17:33 - Aug 2 with 3138 views | bluestandard |
Imho there is no right or wrong when it comes to renegotiation except for maybe a handful of scenarios. We’re in a market, and you don’t need to justify a revised offer to the penny and pound. Ultimately, the seller can choose to accept or reject it.
In terms of how you’ve approached it, if I was the seller, I’d point out that indemnity insurance can be taken out against the garage conversion which I would offer to pay for. I’d also say that the internal condition after tenants isn’t any worse than when you viewed it, albeit that it wasn’t fully visible at the time. Whether I’d accept the revised offer would depend on the local market and personal circumstances. I don’t think you’ve been an a%#ehole though if that’s what you’re asking. | | | |
| House Purchase - price negotiation on 17:38 - Aug 2 with 3115 views | Zx1988 |
| House Purchase - price negotiation on 17:33 - Aug 2 by bluestandard |
Imho there is no right or wrong when it comes to renegotiation except for maybe a handful of scenarios. We’re in a market, and you don’t need to justify a revised offer to the penny and pound. Ultimately, the seller can choose to accept or reject it.
In terms of how you’ve approached it, if I was the seller, I’d point out that indemnity insurance can be taken out against the garage conversion which I would offer to pay for. I’d also say that the internal condition after tenants isn’t any worse than when you viewed it, albeit that it wasn’t fully visible at the time. Whether I’d accept the revised offer would depend on the local market and personal circumstances. I don’t think you’ve been an a%#ehole though if that’s what you’re asking. |
Thanks for the answer - I appreciate it, and completely get that some people (arguably justifiably?) have a strong negative opinion of renegotiation.
In terms of the conversion (rear half of the garage to form a 'home office') it's evident that it's most likely no more than a shed with French doors based on the poor insulation, aroma of damp, and dampness to the flooring which suggests that no DPC has been incorporated to whatever has been used to insulate the floor (if anything). We asked for specifications/invoices/drawings or anything else that would help us assess the space, but were told that it was done by a 'retired builder' and not a single iota of paperwork exists(!).
They've offered an indemnity policy given the fact that (owing to an Article 4 direction in the area) both Planning and BR sign-off weren't obtained, but it won't really do anything to help us make the space any more useable. | |
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| House Purchase - price negotiation on 18:19 - Aug 2 with 3001 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| House Purchase - price negotiation on 17:38 - Aug 2 by Zx1988 |
Thanks for the answer - I appreciate it, and completely get that some people (arguably justifiably?) have a strong negative opinion of renegotiation.
In terms of the conversion (rear half of the garage to form a 'home office') it's evident that it's most likely no more than a shed with French doors based on the poor insulation, aroma of damp, and dampness to the flooring which suggests that no DPC has been incorporated to whatever has been used to insulate the floor (if anything). We asked for specifications/invoices/drawings or anything else that would help us assess the space, but were told that it was done by a 'retired builder' and not a single iota of paperwork exists(!).
They've offered an indemnity policy given the fact that (owing to an Article 4 direction in the area) both Planning and BR sign-off weren't obtained, but it won't really do anything to help us make the space any more useable. |
Sounds like you offered too much in a falling market and are looking for an out? |  |
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| House Purchase - price negotiation on 18:38 - Aug 2 with 2949 views | Zx1988 |
| House Purchase - price negotiation on 18:19 - Aug 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Sounds like you offered too much in a falling market and are looking for an out? |
Not at all.
The agent advised that they had personally checked that planning and BR approvals etc., were in place, and subsequent enquiries have revealed that not to be the case.
What it transpires we're buying is materially different to what we were originally sold. | |
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| House Purchase - price negotiation on 19:33 - Aug 2 with 2813 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| House Purchase - price negotiation on 18:38 - Aug 2 by Zx1988 |
Not at all.
The agent advised that they had personally checked that planning and BR approvals etc., were in place, and subsequent enquiries have revealed that not to be the case.
What it transpires we're buying is materially different to what we were originally sold. |
Sounds like you have a claim against the agent. | |
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| House Purchase - price negotiation on 19:41 - Aug 2 with 2797 views | Swansea_Blue |
| House Purchase - price negotiation on 18:38 - Aug 2 by Zx1988 |
Not at all.
The agent advised that they had personally checked that planning and BR approvals etc., were in place, and subsequent enquiries have revealed that not to be the case.
What it transpires we're buying is materially different to what we were originally sold. |
I wouldn’t have thought agents should be making those claims without evidence to back it up. When I last sold, the solicitor handled that and sent me a form to complete and I had to provide all the relevant certificates. All that was then sent to the buyer.
I’d say non/compliance with building regs justifies a re-negotiation. There’s no guarantee the seller will budge though. Ultimately, as others have said, it comes down to what you’re prepared to pay to get that house. That’s the only way to value it. |  |
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| House Purchase - price negotiation on 19:46 - Aug 2 with 2776 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| House Purchase - price negotiation on 18:38 - Aug 2 by Zx1988 |
Not at all.
The agent advised that they had personally checked that planning and BR approvals etc., were in place, and subsequent enquiries have revealed that not to be the case.
What it transpires we're buying is materially different to what we were originally sold. |
You have been wise to check up on what you were told. An offer is subject to contract and you will usually have a survey and searches done that often throw up things that you want to get resolved before completing or pulling out. This would appear to fall in that sort of bracket to me. Annoying but wait and see what the sellers say. |  |
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| House Purchase - price negotiation on 21:53 - Aug 2 with 2650 views | Stadiumofdark |
That seems sensible - and, at the moment, time is on your side. A well reasoned negotiation on the back of a survey (for example) usually gets traction. But.... it always comes down to how long the property had been on the market, how many offers they'd had, and how far off asking your initial offer was.
It seems like you're being sensible. Rates dropped a bit in the last 10 days, too, so all good news! |  | | |
| House Purchase - price negotiation on 22:20 - Aug 3 with 2288 views | Zx1988 |
Thanks for the helpful advice, folks.
Had a chat with the agent today and we've managed to negotiate a good reduction on the price. Agent is doing a terrible job of hiding the fact that he's livid at having lost a chunk of commission, but he's only got himself to blame.
Now it's just a case of hoping that the lender can turn around the revised offer nice and quickly. It's a fairly small change which, with our deposit remaining the same, slightly increases our LTV, so hopefully it should be a fairly swift rubber-stamping exercise. | |
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| House Purchase - price negotiation on 07:32 - Aug 4 with 2121 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Shows the absurdity of the system in that you made an offer which is not legally binding and in complete lack of knowledge about what you are buying.
It entirely depends on the seller and how tolerant they are and/or how quickly they need the money - and just how unscrupulous any estate agents are in the chain.
Once upon a time when we were buying a house and selling another we were faced with the sellers of the house we were buying suddenly accepting a higher offer on the day contracts were due to be exchanged. On the same day the buyers of our house claimed not to have the money and requested a substantial discount. I refused - which obviously destroyed the hopes and dreams of everyone in the chain below them. Unknown to us the estate agents went to everyone in the chain getting them to drop their price - which lowered our impending financial black hole - but still would leave us spectacularly out of pocket.
Rather unwisely i agreed to the blackmail - and asked the owners of the house we were buying to leave the bedroom curtains as we would by utterly skint (mortgage rates were 10% back then) To be fair the owners did leave the curtains - but they took the curtain rails. I always despised the opportunists who effectively stole money from us whilst buying our house = and the estate agents who facilitated what i considered to be a legalised fraud. They promptly built a substantial extension which their abuse of the system largely funded.
Quite why the English housing market is treated like the Wild West is a mystery - they have a much better system in Scotland where your offer, once accepted is legally binding .
But to answer your question i would quickly walk away if something has been done without planning permission - unless you have a guarantee from the council that it wont be returned to its previous use at your expense. Depending on what you mean by not following building regs… most houses have little or large quirks and foibles that dont meet current guidelines. | |
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| House Purchase - price negotiation on 07:55 - Aug 4 with 2082 views | TractorWood |
My experience is that buying a house in the UK is basically the wild west until you exchange.
You have to be more commiting to book a table at most restaurants than offering for a house. |  |
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| House Purchase - price negotiation on 08:02 - Aug 4 with 2069 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| House Purchase - price negotiation on 07:32 - Aug 4 by ElephantintheRoom |
Shows the absurdity of the system in that you made an offer which is not legally binding and in complete lack of knowledge about what you are buying.
It entirely depends on the seller and how tolerant they are and/or how quickly they need the money - and just how unscrupulous any estate agents are in the chain.
Once upon a time when we were buying a house and selling another we were faced with the sellers of the house we were buying suddenly accepting a higher offer on the day contracts were due to be exchanged. On the same day the buyers of our house claimed not to have the money and requested a substantial discount. I refused - which obviously destroyed the hopes and dreams of everyone in the chain below them. Unknown to us the estate agents went to everyone in the chain getting them to drop their price - which lowered our impending financial black hole - but still would leave us spectacularly out of pocket.
Rather unwisely i agreed to the blackmail - and asked the owners of the house we were buying to leave the bedroom curtains as we would by utterly skint (mortgage rates were 10% back then) To be fair the owners did leave the curtains - but they took the curtain rails. I always despised the opportunists who effectively stole money from us whilst buying our house = and the estate agents who facilitated what i considered to be a legalised fraud. They promptly built a substantial extension which their abuse of the system largely funded.
Quite why the English housing market is treated like the Wild West is a mystery - they have a much better system in Scotland where your offer, once accepted is legally binding .
But to answer your question i would quickly walk away if something has been done without planning permission - unless you have a guarantee from the council that it wont be returned to its previous use at your expense. Depending on what you mean by not following building regs… most houses have little or large quirks and foibles that dont meet current guidelines. |
Did it leave you feeling bitter? | |
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| House Purchase - price negotiation on 08:11 - Aug 4 with 2035 views | EdwardStone |
| House Purchase - price negotiation on 07:32 - Aug 4 by ElephantintheRoom |
Shows the absurdity of the system in that you made an offer which is not legally binding and in complete lack of knowledge about what you are buying.
It entirely depends on the seller and how tolerant they are and/or how quickly they need the money - and just how unscrupulous any estate agents are in the chain.
Once upon a time when we were buying a house and selling another we were faced with the sellers of the house we were buying suddenly accepting a higher offer on the day contracts were due to be exchanged. On the same day the buyers of our house claimed not to have the money and requested a substantial discount. I refused - which obviously destroyed the hopes and dreams of everyone in the chain below them. Unknown to us the estate agents went to everyone in the chain getting them to drop their price - which lowered our impending financial black hole - but still would leave us spectacularly out of pocket.
Rather unwisely i agreed to the blackmail - and asked the owners of the house we were buying to leave the bedroom curtains as we would by utterly skint (mortgage rates were 10% back then) To be fair the owners did leave the curtains - but they took the curtain rails. I always despised the opportunists who effectively stole money from us whilst buying our house = and the estate agents who facilitated what i considered to be a legalised fraud. They promptly built a substantial extension which their abuse of the system largely funded.
Quite why the English housing market is treated like the Wild West is a mystery - they have a much better system in Scotland where your offer, once accepted is legally binding .
But to answer your question i would quickly walk away if something has been done without planning permission - unless you have a guarantee from the council that it wont be returned to its previous use at your expense. Depending on what you mean by not following building regs… most houses have little or large quirks and foibles that dont meet current guidelines. |
Did the vendors leave anything unexpected in the room to make recompense for the curtain poles?
A Pachyderm perchance? |  | | |
| House Purchase - price negotiation on 10:47 - Aug 4 with 1958 views | blueasfook |
| House Purchase - price negotiation on 08:02 - Aug 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Did it leave you feeling bitter? |
I am sure not, he seems such a happy go-lucky type. |  |
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| House Purchase - price negotiation on 13:11 - Aug 4 with 1872 views | Zx1988 |
| House Purchase - price negotiation on 07:55 - Aug 4 by TractorWood |
My experience is that buying a house in the UK is basically the wild west until you exchange.
You have to be more commiting to book a table at most restaurants than offering for a house. |
I agree with the absurdity.
The fact that you won't even get sight of a Property Information Form until such time as you've viewed, had an offer accepted, and instructed solicitors is crazy in this day and age.
There are those in the industry who are working to change that, but meaningful reform is still probably some way off, not helped by the lack of meaningful regulation of agents.
https://homebuyingandsellinggroup.co.uk/baspi/ | |
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