| 7 years ago today on 23:30 - Aug 30 with 1044 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| 7 years ago today on 22:51 - Aug 30 by Hipsterectomy |
Didn't he get told by Mick after the Lincoln game to stay away from the club, that he was no longer treated as a club player and his career here was over?
Pretty damning tbh despite how bad he was. |
Let's be honest. Both of them ought to have stayed away from the club after that game. |  | |  |
| 7 years ago today on 23:33 - Aug 30 with 1042 views | Hipsterectomy |
| 7 years ago today on 23:30 - Aug 30 by Mach_foreignBlue |
Let's be honest. Both of them ought to have stayed away from the club after that game. |
Doesn't seem like it was as harsh as I remember:
Mick McCarthy stated that Best would never play for Ipswich Town again. "I told him after the Lincoln game that he is not part of my plans here. He's still with us and may have to have something done with his groin. We will see but he won't be playing for us."
I was going to say, I don't think you can ban a contracted player from training/using club facilities. |  |
| Walter Smith's Barmy Army |
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| 7 years ago today on 06:51 - Aug 31 with 963 views | Churchman |
| 7 years ago today on 15:39 - Aug 30 by Herbivore |
Weren't we after Connor Washington as Murphy's replacement, but we ran a mile at the idea of paying £1.5m for him? |
I was working with a bloke at the time who was a QPR season ticket holder. He reckoned QPR should have paid us to take Washington off their hands. He said he’d gladly drive him to PR if it helped.
He was not a fan of the Washingtonmeister. |  | | |
| 7 years ago today on 06:58 - Aug 31 with 959 views | ibbleobble |
| 7 years ago today on 10:56 - Aug 30 by Herbivore |
If we ignore the abject relegation and four years languishing in League 1, then it's all been peaches and cream over the last 7 years. |
The hiatus was worth it. 1 step back to take 2 forward, as many without Evans and McCarthy blinkers said at the time. You’re welcome. |  | | |
| 7 years ago today on 07:02 - Aug 31 with 956 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 06:58 - Aug 31 by ibbleobble |
The hiatus was worth it. 1 step back to take 2 forward, as many without Evans and McCarthy blinkers said at the time. You’re welcome. |
What metrics are you using to determine moving forward? On key metrics like league performance we aren't yet back to where we were under Mick, let alone having taken a step forward. If you're talking about your personal enjoyment from following Town that's a different matter. |  |
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| 7 years ago today on 07:41 - Aug 31 with 944 views | ibbleobble |
| 7 years ago today on 07:02 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
What metrics are you using to determine moving forward? On key metrics like league performance we aren't yet back to where we were under Mick, let alone having taken a step forward. If you're talking about your personal enjoyment from following Town that's a different matter. |
Er….you must be living on the moon if you fail to see the stark difference between now and then. Not sure why a bunch of you need to wait a whole season to see how we fair to make a judgement on whether we’re better equipped than we were 7-years ago but I guess this is the root of the discussion, foresight and hindsight.
In terms of measurement, there’s a bunch of metrics. Our pockets are deeper, our win - loss ratio is starkly improved, our goals to game ratio is better as are our possession stats; the bookies fancy us and attendances are vastly improved and this is all without layering on the aesthetics and general feel good factor. Oh, the stadium roof has been cleaned… | | | |
| 7 years ago today on 07:51 - Aug 31 with 938 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| 7 years ago today on 07:02 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
What metrics are you using to determine moving forward? On key metrics like league performance we aren't yet back to where we were under Mick, let alone having taken a step forward. If you're talking about your personal enjoyment from following Town that's a different matter. |
Metrics like taking players on and improving them. Spotting and competing for top young talent (with a high ceiling) like Leif and Broadhead. Aiming for players with resale value rather than mediocre frees looking for a final payday. Proper training facilities and coaching (as noted by many of our players. Having a stadium that’s invested in with renovations and new pitch, rather than being left to fall apart. Employing a professional non-playing staff and day to day running of the club.
On the playing side it’s not like we were consistently troubling the playoffs, other than one season we were largely making up the numbers. I think some people have a bizarrely rose tinted view of McCarthy. He did a solid job with feck all resources, but we were still for the most part a team that our rivals would be disappointed not to take any points from. Entertainment aside, his type of football was largely being surpassed by more progressive, technical managers hence his struggles since leaving. | | | |
| 7 years ago today on 08:10 - Aug 31 with 926 views | ibbleobble |
| 7 years ago today on 07:51 - Aug 31 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Metrics like taking players on and improving them. Spotting and competing for top young talent (with a high ceiling) like Leif and Broadhead. Aiming for players with resale value rather than mediocre frees looking for a final payday. Proper training facilities and coaching (as noted by many of our players. Having a stadium that’s invested in with renovations and new pitch, rather than being left to fall apart. Employing a professional non-playing staff and day to day running of the club.
On the playing side it’s not like we were consistently troubling the playoffs, other than one season we were largely making up the numbers. I think some people have a bizarrely rose tinted view of McCarthy. He did a solid job with feck all resources, but we were still for the most part a team that our rivals would be disappointed not to take any points from. Entertainment aside, his type of football was largely being surpassed by more progressive, technical managers hence his struggles since leaving. |
All good and valid arguments. Irrespective of division, KMs win ratio is approximately 57.6% compared to McCarthy’s at 37.6%. Playing for draws to eek our way to mediocrity is a thing of the past. We now look to win every game and that for me, is what football is and should always be about because it’s one of the fundamentals of what makes sport enjoyable and aspirational. | | | |
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| 7 years ago today on 08:12 - Aug 31 with 921 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 07:41 - Aug 31 by ibbleobble |
Er….you must be living on the moon if you fail to see the stark difference between now and then. Not sure why a bunch of you need to wait a whole season to see how we fair to make a judgement on whether we’re better equipped than we were 7-years ago but I guess this is the root of the discussion, foresight and hindsight.
In terms of measurement, there’s a bunch of metrics. Our pockets are deeper, our win - loss ratio is starkly improved, our goals to game ratio is better as are our possession stats; the bookies fancy us and attendances are vastly improved and this is all without layering on the aesthetics and general feel good factor. Oh, the stadium roof has been cleaned… |
The roof is cleaner, praise be. It was well worth an abject relegation and 4 years in League 1. | |
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| 7 years ago today on 08:14 - Aug 31 with 920 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 08:10 - Aug 31 by ibbleobble |
All good and valid arguments. Irrespective of division, KMs win ratio is approximately 57.6% compared to McCarthy’s at 37.6%. Playing for draws to eek our way to mediocrity is a thing of the past. We now look to win every game and that for me, is what football is and should always be about because it’s one of the fundamentals of what makes sport enjoyable and aspirational. |
Irrespective of division is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
McKenna is an excellent manager and I think he has a higher ceiling than Mick ever had, but you're comparing managing the best resourced side in the third division with managing to regularly compete in the top half of the second tier with a bottom 6 budget. | |
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| 7 years ago today on 08:25 - Aug 31 with 908 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| 7 years ago today on 16:59 - Aug 30 by textbackup |
Anything is better than those dark days.
Some on here tried to defend the ownership etc back then too |
I took pellets for being so anti-Evans.
The bloke was killing our club slowly over years and years and people wondered why I was so angry. It’s hard not to be when you travel around the country to watch a team and then see it’s best players sold and replaced with loanees or frees. |  |
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| 7 years ago today on 08:44 - Aug 31 with 877 views | ibbleobble |
| 7 years ago today on 08:14 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
Irrespective of division is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
McKenna is an excellent manager and I think he has a higher ceiling than Mick ever had, but you're comparing managing the best resourced side in the third division with managing to regularly compete in the top half of the second tier with a bottom 6 budget. |
That will always be a fall back argument to forever save face with MM though as it’s the only fall back there is. The shout a few years ago was, “in The Championship” to everything as we were in league one. Now we’re in “The Championship”, the goal posts shift yet again to “resources”, “time” etc. Again it’s a foresight and hindsight debate.
Let’s put this to bed and enjoy the ride. It’s been done to death and other than Mullet, I don’t really see anyone flying the MM flag any more, for good reason. | | | |
| 7 years ago today on 08:50 - Aug 31 with 864 views | Darth_Koont |
| 7 years ago today on 08:14 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
Irrespective of division is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
McKenna is an excellent manager and I think he has a higher ceiling than Mick ever had, but you're comparing managing the best resourced side in the third division with managing to regularly compete in the top half of the second tier with a bottom 6 budget. |
Well said.
There wasn’t a single season Mick didn’t outperform his budget significantly. Even at the end he left the squad in a relatively good place with our own youngsters coming through and players we developed to sell.
Hurst blew it all. And while I didn’t like it but could understand Evans trying to minimize his losses after the initial splurging of huge sums for ever-diminishing returns under Magic, Keane and Jewell, then giving Hurst extra millions to dismantle everything in one summer was inexcusable. |  |
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| 7 years ago today on 08:50 - Aug 31 with 868 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 08:44 - Aug 31 by ibbleobble |
That will always be a fall back argument to forever save face with MM though as it’s the only fall back there is. The shout a few years ago was, “in The Championship” to everything as we were in league one. Now we’re in “The Championship”, the goal posts shift yet again to “resources”, “time” etc. Again it’s a foresight and hindsight debate.
Let’s put this to bed and enjoy the ride. It’s been done to death and other than Mullet, I don’t really see anyone flying the MM flag any more, for good reason. |
McKenna has managed 4 games in the Championship. If he maintains his current 75% win rate then we'll all be very happy, but I think it's unlikely.
I think you'll find there are plenty on here who appreciate that MM did a good job here in difficult circumstances, it's hardly a niche view. And this might blow your mind, but it's possible to enjoy where the club is now AND think Mick did a good job here. It's also possible to think those who crowed about how we'd be much better off without Mick tend to have a blind spot for what happened to us in the 4 years following his departure and that their crowing about being right all along rings rather hollow. | |
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| 7 years ago today on 09:02 - Aug 31 with 841 views | Darth_Koont |
| 7 years ago today on 07:51 - Aug 31 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Metrics like taking players on and improving them. Spotting and competing for top young talent (with a high ceiling) like Leif and Broadhead. Aiming for players with resale value rather than mediocre frees looking for a final payday. Proper training facilities and coaching (as noted by many of our players. Having a stadium that’s invested in with renovations and new pitch, rather than being left to fall apart. Employing a professional non-playing staff and day to day running of the club.
On the playing side it’s not like we were consistently troubling the playoffs, other than one season we were largely making up the numbers. I think some people have a bizarrely rose tinted view of McCarthy. He did a solid job with feck all resources, but we were still for the most part a team that our rivals would be disappointed not to take any points from. Entertainment aside, his type of football was largely being surpassed by more progressive, technical managers hence his struggles since leaving. |
Although we did take on players and improve them/increase their value under Mick — including our own academy players in numbers.
But on the whole any comparison with McKenna is fairly irrelevant given what the two managers were dealing with off the pitch and with their funding relative to the opposition. It’s chalk and cheese. | |
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| 7 years ago today on 09:13 - Aug 31 with 830 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 7 years ago today on 07:02 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
What metrics are you using to determine moving forward? On key metrics like league performance we aren't yet back to where we were under Mick, let alone having taken a step forward. If you're talking about your personal enjoyment from following Town that's a different matter. |
That's a rather harsh assessment of where we are now.
Have you started going to games again? Going to Portman Road these days is like going to somewhere where a curse has been lifted. Everything just feels brighter, more optimistic, on and off the pitch. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 7 years ago today on 09:17 - Aug 31 with 821 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 7 years ago today on 08:14 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
Irrespective of division is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
McKenna is an excellent manager and I think he has a higher ceiling than Mick ever had, but you're comparing managing the best resourced side in the third division with managing to regularly compete in the top half of the second tier with a bottom 6 budget. |
And "The roof is cleaner, praise be" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your previous post.
You seem to have woken up grumpy today. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 7 years ago today on 09:21 - Aug 31 with 806 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 09:13 - Aug 31 by The_Flashing_Smile |
That's a rather harsh assessment of where we are now.
Have you started going to games again? Going to Portman Road these days is like going to somewhere where a curse has been lifted. Everything just feels brighter, more optimistic, on and off the pitch. |
I've had a season ticket continuously for a decade, Dollers, and for most of the last 20 years. The enjoyment of attending and sense of optimism is a subjective experience, I'm talking about how the club is performing in the competition it's part of. Since Mick left it's taken 5 years to even get back close to where he left us in terms of league performance, and we had to go through four of the worst years in the club's history before beginning to bounce back from a very low point. I just find it odd that some crow (not you) about being right that Mick leaving would lead to brighter days when to draw that conclusion you have to completely ignore four years of dross and three of our worst ever managers taking us to historic lows. | |
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| 7 years ago today on 09:31 - Aug 31 with 775 views | Stewart27 |
| 7 years ago today on 09:21 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
I've had a season ticket continuously for a decade, Dollers, and for most of the last 20 years. The enjoyment of attending and sense of optimism is a subjective experience, I'm talking about how the club is performing in the competition it's part of. Since Mick left it's taken 5 years to even get back close to where he left us in terms of league performance, and we had to go through four of the worst years in the club's history before beginning to bounce back from a very low point. I just find it odd that some crow (not you) about being right that Mick leaving would lead to brighter days when to draw that conclusion you have to completely ignore four years of dross and three of our worst ever managers taking us to historic lows. |
I preferred the last 4 years than watching football under MM. That for me was the day the music died. I get that it should have been better as we were in league 1. But this is part of the argument. Languishing in 15th playing the worst football I’ve ever witnessed was a rubbish place to be. See also 20,000 other people with the same view.
I’m not sure what levels KM needs to get back to to rival MM based on your argument? One season finishing 6th in the play offs? | | | |
| 7 years ago today on 09:34 - Aug 31 with 774 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 09:31 - Aug 31 by Stewart27 |
I preferred the last 4 years than watching football under MM. That for me was the day the music died. I get that it should have been better as we were in league 1. But this is part of the argument. Languishing in 15th playing the worst football I’ve ever witnessed was a rubbish place to be. See also 20,000 other people with the same view.
I’m not sure what levels KM needs to get back to to rival MM based on your argument? One season finishing 6th in the play offs? |
Then you're clearly insane. The relegation season was the worst Town side I've ever seen and the following three years we were abject against sides that were non-league a few years ago. I enjoyed last season and the second half of the season before, anyone who enjoyed the four years prior to that is a masochist.
Mick managed 3 top half finishes in his 4 full seasons here (6th, 7th and 9th I think it was) and we were top half when he left. I am sure McKenna will be aiming to better that and ideally to not have to spend 3 or 4 years here, but we aren't there just yet. [Post edited 31 Aug 2023 9:36]
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| 7 years ago today on 09:37 - Aug 31 with 770 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| 7 years ago today on 09:21 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
I've had a season ticket continuously for a decade, Dollers, and for most of the last 20 years. The enjoyment of attending and sense of optimism is a subjective experience, I'm talking about how the club is performing in the competition it's part of. Since Mick left it's taken 5 years to even get back close to where he left us in terms of league performance, and we had to go through four of the worst years in the club's history before beginning to bounce back from a very low point. I just find it odd that some crow (not you) about being right that Mick leaving would lead to brighter days when to draw that conclusion you have to completely ignore four years of dross and three of our worst ever managers taking us to historic lows. |
'four years of dross and three of our worst ever managers taking us to historic lows'
The PLAYERS took us to our historic laws. The players were on the pitch. Neither Hurst nor Lambert nor Cook were as bad as the players.
All of them share the blame. Not only the managers but again it is your agenda. | | | |
| 7 years ago today on 09:40 - Aug 31 with 766 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 09:37 - Aug 31 by Mach_foreignBlue |
'four years of dross and three of our worst ever managers taking us to historic lows'
The PLAYERS took us to our historic laws. The players were on the pitch. Neither Hurst nor Lambert nor Cook were as bad as the players.
All of them share the blame. Not only the managers but again it is your agenda. |
They either signed or gave new contracts to those players, Mach. Three absolute dross managers, not a patch on MM. | |
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| 7 years ago today on 09:42 - Aug 31 with 762 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| 7 years ago today on 09:40 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
They either signed or gave new contracts to those players, Mach. Three absolute dross managers, not a patch on MM. |
Chambers' contract extension after an abject relegation. One of the examples. | | | |
| 7 years ago today on 09:50 - Aug 31 with 748 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 09:42 - Aug 31 by Mach_foreignBlue |
Chambers' contract extension after an abject relegation. One of the examples. |
And yet people thought Lambert was a good manager at the time, the fools. | |
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| 7 years ago today on 09:55 - Aug 31 with 726 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| 7 years ago today on 09:34 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
Then you're clearly insane. The relegation season was the worst Town side I've ever seen and the following three years we were abject against sides that were non-league a few years ago. I enjoyed last season and the second half of the season before, anyone who enjoyed the four years prior to that is a masochist.
Mick managed 3 top half finishes in his 4 full seasons here (6th, 7th and 9th I think it was) and we were top half when he left. I am sure McKenna will be aiming to better that and ideally to not have to spend 3 or 4 years here, but we aren't there just yet. [Post edited 31 Aug 2023 9:36]
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Whilst I agree there was some utter dirge in that time, both in terms of management, players, and results, it’s unlikely we’d have had GC come in with the takeover if we’d stayed up (given the extra cost of investing in a Championship team. Probably backed up by the trend of US investors seeking out teams lower in the EFL.
As I’ve said before McCarthy shouldn’t get the dogs abuse he gets from some - he was merely a symptom, ME was the disease. Declining attendances, fewer and fewer player assets, a disengaged Town, and no prospect of any progress. Fewer people through the gates also means fewer future fans, and what use is a football club without fans. Over the years West Ham and others have eaten into our natural catchment area simply because of the mediocrity and lack of entertainment. It would have been more years of managed decline under Evans, and most probably sinking into League One anyway. | | | |
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