| 7 years ago today on 09:56 - Aug 31 with 1248 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| 7 years ago today on 09:50 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
And yet people thought Lambert was a good manager at the time, the fools. |
Yet some people thought that Skuse, Chambers, Dozzell, Judge, Sears, Spence etc etc were good and dedicated players for the shirt. And SBR stand applauded them after the relegation had been confirmed, the fools.
Lambert came round with a belief and enthusiasm. Turned out to be a failure and didn't do himself any favours by his personal attitude but the job was impossible for him. The players weren't bothered, they didn't instigate any fight. You can blame any manager as long as you wish but the players have to be responsible too. Our lamentable mob wasn't. |  | |  |
| 7 years ago today on 10:04 - Aug 31 with 1221 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 09:55 - Aug 31 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Whilst I agree there was some utter dirge in that time, both in terms of management, players, and results, it’s unlikely we’d have had GC come in with the takeover if we’d stayed up (given the extra cost of investing in a Championship team. Probably backed up by the trend of US investors seeking out teams lower in the EFL.
As I’ve said before McCarthy shouldn’t get the dogs abuse he gets from some - he was merely a symptom, ME was the disease. Declining attendances, fewer and fewer player assets, a disengaged Town, and no prospect of any progress. Fewer people through the gates also means fewer future fans, and what use is a football club without fans. Over the years West Ham and others have eaten into our natural catchment area simply because of the mediocrity and lack of entertainment. It would have been more years of managed decline under Evans, and most probably sinking into League One anyway. |
Hard to say whether Gamechanger would have come knocking if we'd still been an over performing poorly funded Championship team. The extra cost to buy us (in reality, not sure this would have been all that large) is counter balanced by only being one good season away from the promised land of the Prem where they can quickly make their money back.
Agree that ME was the bigger problem and I think sometimes Mick gets saddled with a lot of the disgruntlement that fans felt towards ME. It wasn't Mick's fault that Evans squandered his initial investment on poor managers and worse players and then pulled back when the game got too rich for him. He always seemed stuck between not really having the time or expertise to properly run the club himself but not wanting to spend a bit on putting proper football people in charge of running the club properly. That as much as anything contributed to our decline. |  |
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| 7 years ago today on 10:56 - Aug 31 with 1187 views | TractorCam |
| 7 years ago today on 10:42 - Aug 30 by homer_123 |
Failed to score a league goal for us? |
I remember someone on twitter put a bet on him being the Championship top scorer! |  |
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| 7 years ago today on 11:04 - Aug 31 with 1177 views | nshearman1 |
| 7 years ago today on 10:04 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
Hard to say whether Gamechanger would have come knocking if we'd still been an over performing poorly funded Championship team. The extra cost to buy us (in reality, not sure this would have been all that large) is counter balanced by only being one good season away from the promised land of the Prem where they can quickly make their money back.
Agree that ME was the bigger problem and I think sometimes Mick gets saddled with a lot of the disgruntlement that fans felt towards ME. It wasn't Mick's fault that Evans squandered his initial investment on poor managers and worse players and then pulled back when the game got too rich for him. He always seemed stuck between not really having the time or expertise to properly run the club himself but not wanting to spend a bit on putting proper football people in charge of running the club properly. That as much as anything contributed to our decline. |
While I largely agree with this, what we can reasonably blame Mick for though is the utter utter tedium of the football in his last couple of years. |  | | |
| 7 years ago today on 11:25 - Aug 31 with 1146 views | Churchman |
| 7 years ago today on 10:04 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
Hard to say whether Gamechanger would have come knocking if we'd still been an over performing poorly funded Championship team. The extra cost to buy us (in reality, not sure this would have been all that large) is counter balanced by only being one good season away from the promised land of the Prem where they can quickly make their money back.
Agree that ME was the bigger problem and I think sometimes Mick gets saddled with a lot of the disgruntlement that fans felt towards ME. It wasn't Mick's fault that Evans squandered his initial investment on poor managers and worse players and then pulled back when the game got too rich for him. He always seemed stuck between not really having the time or expertise to properly run the club himself but not wanting to spend a bit on putting proper football people in charge of running the club properly. That as much as anything contributed to our decline. |
Evans didn’t contribute to our decline. He propelled it. We were heading for L2 and beyond.
For example while the current ownership have done a lot to clean up the stadium in its two years, one look at the state of it tells its own story. Twenty years of neglect and decline. There’s a long way to go to make it fit for purpose. I hope the owners have the appetite and finance for that. The difference the ownership group have made aside from £ is bringing in expertise and joining the club together. It has its identity back.
McCarthy wasn’t interested in anything bar the first team according to people like Lee and Dyer and given the way the club was being run down I don’t think he had much choice in that. Nobody should decry what McCarthy did with so little.
Saving us from relegation was a near miracle. Getting us in and near the top six was an achievement. But it would have been better had he gone at the end of 2015/16. We were going nowhere and the football was barely watchable. I never liked how McCarthy’s teams played before he came to us. By the time he left I detested it and in truth was pleased to see the back of him. So we’re 1000s of others as attendances showed.
Be careful what you wish for was the cry from dimwits like Chris Sutton. He and others were of course overjoyed when the club fell out of the Championship. But the dimwits missed the point. Saying farewell to MM wasn’t the problem. His race was run. Replacing him the three idiots was the real problem, but then that reflected Evans’ staggering incompetence and lack of interest.
I believe McKenna will probably prove to be a better manager than Mick, but that’s very much for the future. He’s still new to the management game. In the meantime, his team certainly play in a way I like to see.
Most important of all, the club is certainly in a better place than it’s been since 2000. |  | | |
| 7 years ago today on 12:07 - Aug 31 with 1118 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 7 years ago today on 09:21 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
I've had a season ticket continuously for a decade, Dollers, and for most of the last 20 years. The enjoyment of attending and sense of optimism is a subjective experience, I'm talking about how the club is performing in the competition it's part of. Since Mick left it's taken 5 years to even get back close to where he left us in terms of league performance, and we had to go through four of the worst years in the club's history before beginning to bounce back from a very low point. I just find it odd that some crow (not you) about being right that Mick leaving would lead to brighter days when to draw that conclusion you have to completely ignore four years of dross and three of our worst ever managers taking us to historic lows. |
Oh I had a feeling you hadn't been for a while, maybe I was thinking of someone else.
Anyway, as for the competitions we've been part of... well we won promotion with a record tally last year, and we started the new campaign with a 100% record up until Saturday and ARE currently sat higher than where Mick left us. We've also progressed through two rounds of the League Cup, the only other competition we're currently in.
So, not really sure what you're going on about, with any measure, TBH. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 7 years ago today on 12:15 - Aug 31 with 1115 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 12:07 - Aug 31 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Oh I had a feeling you hadn't been for a while, maybe I was thinking of someone else.
Anyway, as for the competitions we've been part of... well we won promotion with a record tally last year, and we started the new campaign with a 100% record up until Saturday and ARE currently sat higher than where Mick left us. We've also progressed through two rounds of the League Cup, the only other competition we're currently in.
So, not really sure what you're going on about, with any measure, TBH. |
I suspected it might be a bit too challenging for you to grasp. | |
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| 7 years ago today on 12:40 - Aug 31 with 1082 views | Mullet |
| 7 years ago today on 08:50 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
McKenna has managed 4 games in the Championship. If he maintains his current 75% win rate then we'll all be very happy, but I think it's unlikely.
I think you'll find there are plenty on here who appreciate that MM did a good job here in difficult circumstances, it's hardly a niche view. And this might blow your mind, but it's possible to enjoy where the club is now AND think Mick did a good job here. It's also possible to think those who crowed about how we'd be much better off without Mick tend to have a blind spot for what happened to us in the 4 years following his departure and that their crowing about being right all along rings rather hollow. |
This is the bloke who supposedly blocked me and called me a cretin, whilst getting teary because I hadn't said anything he claimed I had. Here he is dragging me into it yet again.
Priceless.
It's almost like some people just don't have the good grace to be wrong and live with it. |  |
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| 7 years ago today on 13:03 - Aug 31 with 1060 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 7 years ago today on 12:15 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
I suspected it might be a bit too challenging for you to grasp. |
Haha, nice try, but that's not an answer, that's a swerve.
Come on, which competitions are we not performing as well in as we did with Mick? If that's the metric you want to judge the club by. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 7 years ago today on 13:08 - Aug 31 with 1058 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 13:03 - Aug 31 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Haha, nice try, but that's not an answer, that's a swerve.
Come on, which competitions are we not performing as well in as we did with Mick? If that's the metric you want to judge the club by. |
Well, our best league finish under McKenna is lower in the pyramid than we ever finished under MM. Not McKenna's fault, he didn't take us to League 1, but that's the facrs. I think a lot of folk would be happy with a top 10 finish this season and would see that as a good season. For context, MM achieved that feat in 3 of his 4 full seasons here. It really shouldn't need spelling out to be honest, but there we go. | |
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| 7 years ago today on 13:13 - Aug 31 with 1054 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 7 years ago today on 13:08 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
Well, our best league finish under McKenna is lower in the pyramid than we ever finished under MM. Not McKenna's fault, he didn't take us to League 1, but that's the facrs. I think a lot of folk would be happy with a top 10 finish this season and would see that as a good season. For context, MM achieved that feat in 3 of his 4 full seasons here. It really shouldn't need spelling out to be honest, but there we go. |
Haha, wow, you must be giggling to yourself? If McKenna takes over in League 1 his best league finish can't possibly be higher than Mick in the Championship, yet. What a daft statement!
And now you're talking about what MIGHT happen now we're up (or what some folk might think of as good)?! That's hardly dealing in facts is it?
It shows the folly of judging McKenna's Champ performance against Mick's - there isn't enough data yet. But if you want to judge all we have to go on, then McKenna has us higher than Mick left us.
That shouldn't really need spelling out either. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 7 years ago today on 13:13 - Aug 31 with 1055 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 12:40 - Aug 31 by Mullet |
This is the bloke who supposedly blocked me and called me a cretin, whilst getting teary because I hadn't said anything he claimed I had. Here he is dragging me into it yet again.
Priceless.
It's almost like some people just don't have the good grace to be wrong and live with it. |
It's kind of like he's loudly declared that he's going to sh!t his pants but actually he's going to end up better off as a result. He's then shat himself, spent 4 and a bit years wallowing in his own filth, fending off flies and picking maggots out of his gusset, and then when some kindly stranger has cleaned him up and given him some new pants he's proudly wandering around shouting "See, I was right all along!". | |
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| 7 years ago today on 13:22 - Aug 31 with 1027 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 13:13 - Aug 31 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Haha, wow, you must be giggling to yourself? If McKenna takes over in League 1 his best league finish can't possibly be higher than Mick in the Championship, yet. What a daft statement!
And now you're talking about what MIGHT happen now we're up (or what some folk might think of as good)?! That's hardly dealing in facts is it?
It shows the folly of judging McKenna's Champ performance against Mick's - there isn't enough data yet. But if you want to judge all we have to go on, then McKenna has us higher than Mick left us.
That shouldn't really need spelling out either. |
Jesus wept, you don't read what you're responding to half the time. In any case, if you want to get into comparing as like for like as possible, after 4 games of his last season, MM had us higher than McKenna currently does. We won 4 straight at the start of his last season here. If McKenna manages to finish top 10 he'll have done a good job, much like Mick managed for the majority of his time here. The point is that we need to have what would objectively be a good season just to get back to where we were under Mick. I'm not sure why you're finding that so hard to understand. | |
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| 7 years ago today on 13:34 - Aug 31 with 1004 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 7 years ago today on 13:22 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
Jesus wept, you don't read what you're responding to half the time. In any case, if you want to get into comparing as like for like as possible, after 4 games of his last season, MM had us higher than McKenna currently does. We won 4 straight at the start of his last season here. If McKenna manages to finish top 10 he'll have done a good job, much like Mick managed for the majority of his time here. The point is that we need to have what would objectively be a good season just to get back to where we were under Mick. I'm not sure why you're finding that so hard to understand. |
I have read everything, thanks. That's just another deflection attempt like the 'You're not bright enough to understand' one.
It's not me who wants to compare Mick with McKenna - that's you. And if you're wanting to compare Mick's last season with McKenna's first - and claim that as a like for like (let's be honest, you're only doing that because that's the one year Mick somehow won the first 4) - then even YOU know you're being disingenuous.
Really odd to not be happy with everything right now, as a Town fan, and be harping back to Mick McCarthy. But each to their own. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 7 years ago today on 13:41 - Aug 31 with 999 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 13:34 - Aug 31 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I have read everything, thanks. That's just another deflection attempt like the 'You're not bright enough to understand' one.
It's not me who wants to compare Mick with McKenna - that's you. And if you're wanting to compare Mick's last season with McKenna's first - and claim that as a like for like (let's be honest, you're only doing that because that's the one year Mick somehow won the first 4) - then even YOU know you're being disingenuous.
Really odd to not be happy with everything right now, as a Town fan, and be harping back to Mick McCarthy. But each to their own. |
I now fully remember why I generally try and avoid you. | |
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| 7 years ago today on 13:47 - Aug 31 with 972 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 7 years ago today on 13:41 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
I now fully remember why I generally try and avoid you. |
Yes, it's because I destroy you with logic and you end up having to post a variety of put-downs to avoid answering the points made.
Your next one would've been a withering "Yes, that's right Dollers" if I hadn't already just put it. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 7 years ago today on 13:56 - Aug 31 with 967 views | nshearman1 |
| 7 years ago today on 13:47 - Aug 31 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yes, it's because I destroy you with logic and you end up having to post a variety of put-downs to avoid answering the points made.
Your next one would've been a withering "Yes, that's right Dollers" if I hadn't already just put it. |
Haha love seeing Herb getting stuck into another lengthy argument through patronising put-downs! How we’ve missed them! | | | |
| 7 years ago today on 14:03 - Aug 31 with 950 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 13:47 - Aug 31 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yes, it's because I destroy you with logic and you end up having to post a variety of put-downs to avoid answering the points made.
Your next one would've been a withering "Yes, that's right Dollers" if I hadn't already just put it. |
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| 7 years ago today on 14:33 - Aug 31 with 928 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 7 years ago today on 14:03 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
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Or an emoji... | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 7 years ago today on 17:52 - Aug 31 with 886 views | ibbleobble |
| 7 years ago today on 08:50 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
McKenna has managed 4 games in the Championship. If he maintains his current 75% win rate then we'll all be very happy, but I think it's unlikely.
I think you'll find there are plenty on here who appreciate that MM did a good job here in difficult circumstances, it's hardly a niche view. And this might blow your mind, but it's possible to enjoy where the club is now AND think Mick did a good job here. It's also possible to think those who crowed about how we'd be much better off without Mick tend to have a blind spot for what happened to us in the 4 years following his departure and that their crowing about being right all along rings rather hollow. |
…it doesn’t though does it? A lot of those people accepted we would have to take a roll of the dice and deal with whatever happened which was at complete odds with a lot of folk too scared to contemplate change. Those folk in the latter camp are the MM stalwarts who, by proxy, were holding the club back given the dire state it was in all bar Championship status; they held up mediocrity like we should be grateful for it.
This may blow your mind but if it wasn’t for those who forced change whether in the right manner by refusing to attend or by alternate means I don’t agree with, this club wouldn’t be in the position it is in now both on and off the field. All your indignation about Mick just looks more ridiculous as days go by. For me it also says a lot about the make-up of folk in that camp but that’s just my own prejudice.
The argument isn’t whether Mick did a good job, it’s whether he was prohibitive to the development and future success of this club. He was. The game was changing and many could see it. That’s your blind spot. | | | |
| 7 years ago today on 18:05 - Aug 31 with 871 views | ibbleobble |
| 7 years ago today on 13:13 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
It's kind of like he's loudly declared that he's going to sh!t his pants but actually he's going to end up better off as a result. He's then shat himself, spent 4 and a bit years wallowing in his own filth, fending off flies and picking maggots out of his gusset, and then when some kindly stranger has cleaned him up and given him some new pants he's proudly wandering around shouting "See, I was right all along!". |
Thankfully I don’t see Mullet’s posts as there’s nothing I can’t stand more than morose pro-MM Northerners who followed Morrisey and The Smith's thinking it was cool. It’s at odds with everything fun in life.
Reading your response in isolation does read like you’re a Mullet sycophant though, which, given the above, is pretty desperate as is the attempt at humour.
I’ll bow out now, and Herbs, no need to say “Thank you”. We all know you were wrong but it’s OK, keep doubling down if it makes you feel better to save face. Just remember, “you’re welcome”. And when we get to the PL, which we will, “you’re welcome, again”. | | | |
| 7 years ago today on 18:07 - Aug 31 with 870 views | brogansnose |
| 7 years ago today on 17:52 - Aug 31 by ibbleobble |
…it doesn’t though does it? A lot of those people accepted we would have to take a roll of the dice and deal with whatever happened which was at complete odds with a lot of folk too scared to contemplate change. Those folk in the latter camp are the MM stalwarts who, by proxy, were holding the club back given the dire state it was in all bar Championship status; they held up mediocrity like we should be grateful for it.
This may blow your mind but if it wasn’t for those who forced change whether in the right manner by refusing to attend or by alternate means I don’t agree with, this club wouldn’t be in the position it is in now both on and off the field. All your indignation about Mick just looks more ridiculous as days go by. For me it also says a lot about the make-up of folk in that camp but that’s just my own prejudice.
The argument isn’t whether Mick did a good job, it’s whether he was prohibitive to the development and future success of this club. He was. The game was changing and many could see it. That’s your blind spot. |
The person who was prohibitive to the development and future success of this club was Marcus fkn Evans. |  | | |
| 7 years ago today on 18:30 - Aug 31 with 842 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 17:52 - Aug 31 by ibbleobble |
…it doesn’t though does it? A lot of those people accepted we would have to take a roll of the dice and deal with whatever happened which was at complete odds with a lot of folk too scared to contemplate change. Those folk in the latter camp are the MM stalwarts who, by proxy, were holding the club back given the dire state it was in all bar Championship status; they held up mediocrity like we should be grateful for it.
This may blow your mind but if it wasn’t for those who forced change whether in the right manner by refusing to attend or by alternate means I don’t agree with, this club wouldn’t be in the position it is in now both on and off the field. All your indignation about Mick just looks more ridiculous as days go by. For me it also says a lot about the make-up of folk in that camp but that’s just my own prejudice.
The argument isn’t whether Mick did a good job, it’s whether he was prohibitive to the development and future success of this club. He was. The game was changing and many could see it. That’s your blind spot. |
You're making a lot of assumptions here, I was one of those who said Mick should go both at the time he went and at the end of the previous season when he finished 16th. What I don't feel the need to do is claim some faux victory after 4 and a half years of sh!te, which came to an end through a takeover that had nothing at all to do with MM leaving the club some 4 years previously. You seem desperate to link our success now to MM leaving when the two events are separated by a lot of time and a lot of abject misery for us as a fan base. But you keep telling yourself you were right all along, hun. | |
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| 7 years ago today on 18:32 - Aug 31 with 839 views | Herbivore |
| 7 years ago today on 18:05 - Aug 31 by ibbleobble |
Thankfully I don’t see Mullet’s posts as there’s nothing I can’t stand more than morose pro-MM Northerners who followed Morrisey and The Smith's thinking it was cool. It’s at odds with everything fun in life.
Reading your response in isolation does read like you’re a Mullet sycophant though, which, given the above, is pretty desperate as is the attempt at humour.
I’ll bow out now, and Herbs, no need to say “Thank you”. We all know you were wrong but it’s OK, keep doubling down if it makes you feel better to save face. Just remember, “you’re welcome”. And when we get to the PL, which we will, “you’re welcome, again”. |
Christ on a bike, the absolute state of it, parading around caked in sh!t and telling the world it's our saviour. Have a day off, lad, it's embarrassing. | |
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