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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? 19:54 - Nov 2 with 246662 viewsnoggin

Yeah but Owen Jones...
[Post edited 3 Nov 2023 9:05]

Poll: Which team thread should I participate in?

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:11 - Nov 8 with 3563 viewseireblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:38 - Nov 8 by Darth_Koont

Another day, another 160 children are going to die.

Ceasefire now!


What did Hamas do after the previous ceasefires?
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:25 - Nov 8 with 3462 viewsDarth_Koont

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:11 - Nov 8 by eireblue

What did Hamas do after the previous ceasefires?


So we’re killing 160 kids a day to stop something worse?

I don’t buy that for a second.

Ceasefire now.

Pronouns: He/Him

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:29 - Nov 8 with 3444 viewseireblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:25 - Nov 8 by Darth_Koont

So we’re killing 160 kids a day to stop something worse?

I don’t buy that for a second.

Ceasefire now.


You avoided the question.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:33 - Nov 8 with 3435 viewsDarth_Koont

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:29 - Nov 8 by eireblue

You avoided the question.


No, you’re avoiding 160 kids.

You can’t justify it even based on what Hamas have done in the past.

Pronouns: He/Him

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:35 - Nov 8 with 3417 viewseireblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:33 - Nov 8 by Darth_Koont

No, you’re avoiding 160 kids.

You can’t justify it even based on what Hamas have done in the past.


Where did I justify it?
[Post edited 8 Nov 2023 22:36]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 23:10 - Nov 8 with 3363 viewsDarth_Koont

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:35 - Nov 8 by eireblue

Where did I justify it?
[Post edited 8 Nov 2023 22:36]


What’s your point then?

Pronouns: He/Him

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 04:00 - Nov 9 with 3261 viewsZapers

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:24 - Nov 7 by eireblue

So if the West Bank problem was solved, Hamas would give up?

Hamas had a war with Fatah to control Gaza.

You really think Hamas would relinquish their control of Gaza, lay down arms, because Fatah or another Palestinian political group managed to broker peace in the West Bank?

The issue is quite simple, and not linked, how do you stop Hamas killing people.


A few posters on this thread seem to overlook the fact that pretty much all decent people are horrified by what is going on in Gaza.

Frankly i don't see the need to keep posting the same subject matter day after day...we get it!

However Israel think they have a solution, and until someone comes up with something workable between Hamas and the Israeli Government, which is not going to happen in my opinion, the killing of innocent people will continue.

Hamas are the problem, sponsored by Iran. The sooner people realise you cannot negotiate with terrorists , the sooner they might understand the problems Israel face.
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Is there a timely and sensible way out of this ? on 06:22 - Nov 9 with 3221 viewsWeWereZombies

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 04:00 - Nov 9 by Zapers

A few posters on this thread seem to overlook the fact that pretty much all decent people are horrified by what is going on in Gaza.

Frankly i don't see the need to keep posting the same subject matter day after day...we get it!

However Israel think they have a solution, and until someone comes up with something workable between Hamas and the Israeli Government, which is not going to happen in my opinion, the killing of innocent people will continue.

Hamas are the problem, sponsored by Iran. The sooner people realise you cannot negotiate with terrorists , the sooner they might understand the problems Israel face.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67364296 at 06:03

'Gaza will need 'Marshall Plan' to become habitable again
It will take months and something resembling a "Marshall Plan" for Gaza to recover after the Israeli war, Nour Odeh a Palestinian political commentator based in Ramallah, says.

The Marshall Plan was a huge aid package the United States sent to Western Europe in the aftermath of the Second World War.

The Gaza Strip, which Odeh says is being "decimated", will take months of rebuilding to become habitable again.

Israeli PM Netanyahu said his country would have “overall security responsibility” for the Gaza Strip for “an indefinite period” once the fighting was over, in an interview with US channel ABC News.

"What Netanyahu is doing right now is buying time for himself because he faces investigations and accountability - even his closest allies in the Israeli media are asking him to step down because he refuses to take responsibility," Odeh told the BBC’s World at One programme.

Without a political framework “from the world”, Odeh said Israeli control of Gaza would just lead to more tensions and that it was not a vision or plan “for progress in the future”.'

Well, you did ask...

Edit: Yet again, I forgot to change the title of the thread
[Post edited 9 Nov 2023 6:25]

Poll: How will we get fourteen points from the last five games ?

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 07:25 - Nov 9 with 3183 viewsDarth_Koont

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 04:00 - Nov 9 by Zapers

A few posters on this thread seem to overlook the fact that pretty much all decent people are horrified by what is going on in Gaza.

Frankly i don't see the need to keep posting the same subject matter day after day...we get it!

However Israel think they have a solution, and until someone comes up with something workable between Hamas and the Israeli Government, which is not going to happen in my opinion, the killing of innocent people will continue.

Hamas are the problem, sponsored by Iran. The sooner people realise you cannot negotiate with terrorists , the sooner they might understand the problems Israel face.


That makes no sense. The Israel government and military is the problem now for millions of civilians.

The workable solution from their far-right racist government is to kill 160 kids every day. Let alone,
Israel has been escalating the long-standing occupation and oppression of the Palestinians with or without Hamas for the past decade. They have zero authority moral or international to decide the solution on their terms.

Ceasefire now!

Pronouns: He/Him

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 07:51 - Nov 9 with 3124 viewsredrickstuhaart

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 04:00 - Nov 9 by Zapers

A few posters on this thread seem to overlook the fact that pretty much all decent people are horrified by what is going on in Gaza.

Frankly i don't see the need to keep posting the same subject matter day after day...we get it!

However Israel think they have a solution, and until someone comes up with something workable between Hamas and the Israeli Government, which is not going to happen in my opinion, the killing of innocent people will continue.

Hamas are the problem, sponsored by Iran. The sooner people realise you cannot negotiate with terrorists , the sooner they might understand the problems Israel face.


Why do Hama's exist?
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:13 - Nov 9 with 3087 viewsGlasgowBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 07:51 - Nov 9 by redrickstuhaart

Why do Hama's exist?


For the same reason IS, Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah and other jihadist death cults exist.

Iron Lion Zion
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:27 - Nov 9 with 3049 viewsDarth_Koont

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:13 - Nov 9 by GlasgowBlue

For the same reason IS, Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah and other jihadist death cults exist.


Religion, injustice, oppression, lack of empathy and understanding, man’s desire for self-serving narratives rather than taking responsibility, unwillingness to address long-term causes and lasting solutions etc.

It’s also why the Israeli far-right death cult exists.

The extremists on both sides didn’t emerge in a vacuum. Any real solution needs to address that and, most importantly, be brought to the level of the civilians caught in the middle.

Pronouns: He/Him

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:29 - Nov 9 with 3037 viewsredrickstuhaart

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:13 - Nov 9 by GlasgowBlue

For the same reason IS, Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah and other jihadist death cults exist.


Really? When did they form. What was the background to it?
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:34 - Nov 9 with 2992 viewsBuhrer

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:29 - Nov 9 by redrickstuhaart

Really? When did they form. What was the background to it?


I don't think we are allowed to post pictures of the chap that started it all. Or even cartoons.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:35 - Nov 9 with 2985 viewsredrickstuhaart

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:34 - Nov 9 by Buhrer

I don't think we are allowed to post pictures of the chap that started it all. Or even cartoons.


Why are people so desperate to avoid talking about the situation and circumstances which provided the fuel for this fire?
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:51 - Nov 9 with 2960 viewsDarth_Koont

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:35 - Nov 9 by redrickstuhaart

Why are people so desperate to avoid talking about the situation and circumstances which provided the fuel for this fire?


Because then they can pretend that this all started on October 7th. And tell themselves that the Israeli regime and its murderous oppression of Palestinians are both rational.

The bigger why will be different from person to person from those who share the Israeli regime’s ethno-religious and racist view that Palestinians are the enemy to those who might think there is no other solution to the evil of Hamas.

But from our knowledge of these conflicts between peoples we know that’s a fantasy at the current cost of 160 innocent children brutally killed every day, not to mention the traumatisation of 2 million others. There are no easy solutions but this kind of escalation should be the very last option not the very first, especially as it increases the risks for all and pushes lasting peace much further down the road.

Pronouns: He/Him

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:52 - Nov 9 with 2955 viewsDarth_Koont

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:34 - Nov 9 by Buhrer

I don't think we are allowed to post pictures of the chap that started it all. Or even cartoons.


Abraham? I think you’re alright.

But not the image of him wanting to sacrifice his own child for God. That’s a bit too close to the bone at the moment.

Pronouns: He/Him

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We just have to put the past aside and look at what is best for the future ? on 09:18 - Nov 9 with 2922 viewsWeWereZombies

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:52 - Nov 9 by Darth_Koont

Abraham? I think you’re alright.

But not the image of him wanting to sacrifice his own child for God. That’s a bit too close to the bone at the moment.


This is off at a tangent, and perhaps a dangerous tangent, but shouldn't we be saying Yahweh ? But, there again, we are not supposed to say that name...a bit like Voldemort, so we could blame J.K. Rowling for all this.

With apologies to Harry Potter fans. And to return to your first named have a bit of Zimmerman:


Poll: How will we get fourteen points from the last five games ?

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:30 - Nov 9 with 2894 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Time out! Musical interlude....

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:47 - Nov 9 with 2832 viewsBuhrer

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:52 - Nov 9 by Darth_Koont

Abraham? I think you’re alright.

But not the image of him wanting to sacrifice his own child for God. That’s a bit too close to the bone at the moment.


The correct answer was the Archangel Gabriel. I dont think we should blame an illiterate desert herdsman for his night time emissions.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:51 - Nov 9 with 2817 viewsBuhrer

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:13 - Nov 9 by GlasgowBlue

For the same reason IS, Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah and other jihadist death cults exist.




Should never be seen.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:52 - Nov 9 with 2811 viewsBuhrer

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:30 - Nov 9 by BanksterDebtSlave

Time out! Musical interlude....


[Post edited 9 Nov 2023 10:00]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:53 - Nov 9 with 2802 viewseireblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 23:10 - Nov 8 by Darth_Koont

What’s your point then?


Everyone is horrified by what is happening. Nobody wants to see senseless death.

Apart from Hamas.

This conflict will be horrendous:
There is no strategic advantage for Hamas to be separated from civilians.

As GB was saying, wouldn’t it be great if Hamas agreed to all non-combatants to be evacuated, for now let’s not even consider the logistics about moving 2 Million people out of harms way, Hamas won’t let that happen painlessly.

In a straight-up military fight, combatants vs combatants, Hamas would be destroyed.

Hamas already intimidates and kill Palestinians that oppose them, there are reports that Hamas was telling civilians to go back home ignore what Israel said about evacuating, and it probably wasn’t a polite request.

This a quote that should be considered. In 2014, the Hamas spokesperson Sami Abu Zuhari told al-Aqsa TV: “Hamas despises those defeatist Palestinians who criticise the high number of civilian casualties. The resistance praises our people … we lead our people to death … I mean, to war.”

In any scenario that Hamas remains an armed force, people will be killed by them and because of them.

Someone has to be responsible for destroying the current Hamas terrorists.

Expressing horror at what is happening, and wanting to see it stop is of course what people want.

Unfortunately I can’t see why a ceasefire now will do anything other than what other ceasefires achieved in the past, which is an increase in deaths at some point in the future.

People should try a thought experiment of thinking tactically like a Hamas terrorist, you would quite like a ceasefire, because it will allow you to move your resources back into the south, in an even more compact place, with even more density of civilians.

I don’t see daily calls for Hamas to stop being cowards, get out of the way of civilians and fight properly.

No ceasefire with Hamas has stopped or decreased the killings. Just paused them for a bit.
The last ceasefire started in 2021, and was ended on Oct 7th.

If ceasefires worked, Oct 7th wouldn’t have happened.

I can’t see anyone proposing an alternative on how to stop Hamas killing people.

And for those people saying, everyone is ignoring what happened pre Oct 7th, that’s nonsense.
It is the opposite that is true. Many things tried haven’t worked up to Oct 7th.

Don’t pretend ceasefires and negotiations haven’t been tried, don’t pretend Hamas won’t kill people given the chance, don’t pretend Hamas haven’t been an authoritarian regime quashing any internal attempts to dislodge them.

Sure debate that history and competency and comment on extremes on both sides, and religious intolerance in general.

Meanwhile, on October the 8th there were 30,000 terrorists with plenty of food, water, weapons, hostages, and 2 Million people to hide behind, who have just had their biggest victory, and are threatening more of the same.
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There are no easy solutions especially when carpet bombing leaves dead cities? on 10:07 - Nov 9 with 2726 viewsWeWereZombies

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:53 - Nov 9 by eireblue

Everyone is horrified by what is happening. Nobody wants to see senseless death.

Apart from Hamas.

This conflict will be horrendous:
There is no strategic advantage for Hamas to be separated from civilians.

As GB was saying, wouldn’t it be great if Hamas agreed to all non-combatants to be evacuated, for now let’s not even consider the logistics about moving 2 Million people out of harms way, Hamas won’t let that happen painlessly.

In a straight-up military fight, combatants vs combatants, Hamas would be destroyed.

Hamas already intimidates and kill Palestinians that oppose them, there are reports that Hamas was telling civilians to go back home ignore what Israel said about evacuating, and it probably wasn’t a polite request.

This a quote that should be considered. In 2014, the Hamas spokesperson Sami Abu Zuhari told al-Aqsa TV: “Hamas despises those defeatist Palestinians who criticise the high number of civilian casualties. The resistance praises our people … we lead our people to death … I mean, to war.”

In any scenario that Hamas remains an armed force, people will be killed by them and because of them.

Someone has to be responsible for destroying the current Hamas terrorists.

Expressing horror at what is happening, and wanting to see it stop is of course what people want.

Unfortunately I can’t see why a ceasefire now will do anything other than what other ceasefires achieved in the past, which is an increase in deaths at some point in the future.

People should try a thought experiment of thinking tactically like a Hamas terrorist, you would quite like a ceasefire, because it will allow you to move your resources back into the south, in an even more compact place, with even more density of civilians.

I don’t see daily calls for Hamas to stop being cowards, get out of the way of civilians and fight properly.

No ceasefire with Hamas has stopped or decreased the killings. Just paused them for a bit.
The last ceasefire started in 2021, and was ended on Oct 7th.

If ceasefires worked, Oct 7th wouldn’t have happened.

I can’t see anyone proposing an alternative on how to stop Hamas killing people.

And for those people saying, everyone is ignoring what happened pre Oct 7th, that’s nonsense.
It is the opposite that is true. Many things tried haven’t worked up to Oct 7th.

Don’t pretend ceasefires and negotiations haven’t been tried, don’t pretend Hamas won’t kill people given the chance, don’t pretend Hamas haven’t been an authoritarian regime quashing any internal attempts to dislodge them.

Sure debate that history and competency and comment on extremes on both sides, and religious intolerance in general.

Meanwhile, on October the 8th there were 30,000 terrorists with plenty of food, water, weapons, hostages, and 2 Million people to hide behind, who have just had their biggest victory, and are threatening more of the same.


All very relevant and informative but I have to ask 'why didn't the Israeli administration in decades past give more support to the Palestinian Authority (and before that co-operate to a greater degree with Fatah) when they could see what was happening with Hamas in Gaza ?'

And I will give you an answer. Fear enabled right wing extremists to take control of successive Israeli administrations (I have been told that the centre and left in Israel are now hopelessly weak) but all that seems to happen with this hardening of response is more brutality from Arab terrorists (please remember that few Arabs are terrorists but those that are get a lot of exposure.) Hamas might get eradicated but something will replace them, and with so many suffering personal loss the seeds of more missiles, IEDs and suicide bombers have been planted and will be difficult to counter.

So militarism leaves us weaker and we should look around the World to see where this is happening elsewhere and redouble our efforts to remains civilised, democratic and able to see opposing views and respond constructively to them even if they repel us.

Edited for change of title again...
[Post edited 9 Nov 2023 14:37]

Poll: How will we get fourteen points from the last five games ?

3
How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 10:11 - Nov 9 with 2718 viewsDarth_Koont

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:53 - Nov 9 by eireblue

Everyone is horrified by what is happening. Nobody wants to see senseless death.

Apart from Hamas.

This conflict will be horrendous:
There is no strategic advantage for Hamas to be separated from civilians.

As GB was saying, wouldn’t it be great if Hamas agreed to all non-combatants to be evacuated, for now let’s not even consider the logistics about moving 2 Million people out of harms way, Hamas won’t let that happen painlessly.

In a straight-up military fight, combatants vs combatants, Hamas would be destroyed.

Hamas already intimidates and kill Palestinians that oppose them, there are reports that Hamas was telling civilians to go back home ignore what Israel said about evacuating, and it probably wasn’t a polite request.

This a quote that should be considered. In 2014, the Hamas spokesperson Sami Abu Zuhari told al-Aqsa TV: “Hamas despises those defeatist Palestinians who criticise the high number of civilian casualties. The resistance praises our people … we lead our people to death … I mean, to war.”

In any scenario that Hamas remains an armed force, people will be killed by them and because of them.

Someone has to be responsible for destroying the current Hamas terrorists.

Expressing horror at what is happening, and wanting to see it stop is of course what people want.

Unfortunately I can’t see why a ceasefire now will do anything other than what other ceasefires achieved in the past, which is an increase in deaths at some point in the future.

People should try a thought experiment of thinking tactically like a Hamas terrorist, you would quite like a ceasefire, because it will allow you to move your resources back into the south, in an even more compact place, with even more density of civilians.

I don’t see daily calls for Hamas to stop being cowards, get out of the way of civilians and fight properly.

No ceasefire with Hamas has stopped or decreased the killings. Just paused them for a bit.
The last ceasefire started in 2021, and was ended on Oct 7th.

If ceasefires worked, Oct 7th wouldn’t have happened.

I can’t see anyone proposing an alternative on how to stop Hamas killing people.

And for those people saying, everyone is ignoring what happened pre Oct 7th, that’s nonsense.
It is the opposite that is true. Many things tried haven’t worked up to Oct 7th.

Don’t pretend ceasefires and negotiations haven’t been tried, don’t pretend Hamas won’t kill people given the chance, don’t pretend Hamas haven’t been an authoritarian regime quashing any internal attempts to dislodge them.

Sure debate that history and competency and comment on extremes on both sides, and religious intolerance in general.

Meanwhile, on October the 8th there were 30,000 terrorists with plenty of food, water, weapons, hostages, and 2 Million people to hide behind, who have just had their biggest victory, and are threatening more of the same.


That’s pretending that the Israeli regime isn’t murderously extreme and similarly committed to senseless death as we’re seeing.

It’s also ignoring the underlying situation where Palestinians in general are the enemy and have been occupied, oppressed, dehumanised and brutalised for years EVEN in the West Bank without Hamas.

Any escalation from that underlying situation, whether it’s Hamas’s “military” action that targets civilians or the Israeli government asserting its “right to self-defence” that targets civilians, is an obstacle to peace and is ignoring the lives, well-being and futures of millions.

Ceasefire now!

Pronouns: He/Him

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