| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 06:33 - Nov 5 with 8318 views | BondiBlue |
When it clicks for him he's going to be phenomenal. So talented but so inconsistent. |  |
| |  |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 05:37 - Nov 6 with 2254 views | charlie1 |
Probably 8 with the ball, 4 without.
It’s his positioning and decision making off the ball that lets him down.
Have a look at Birmingham’s second goal. When they clear from Hirst’s nod down, Clarke’s standing next to the winger who ultimately puts the cross in for the og.
But Harry is ball watching and follows it into the middle rather than sprinting back with his winger into position.
Wolfy is exposed to his right when he needs to be covering the centre and can’t get out to the cross.
Similar with Fulham’s first. Clarke is LB but comes way too far across when Axel steps up.
Watch the reply and you’ll see at no stage does he look to see who is outside him. Doesn’t take his eye off the ball until it’s on its way to the guy who scored.
By then it’s way too late to try and get out to the threat.
Will be a good player for us in a settled role, but while he’s in and out of the side and playing different positions teams at this level will exploit it. | | | |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 06:57 - Nov 6 with 2215 views | Herbivore |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 18:15 - Nov 5 by keebsdad |
The problem is that he has bags of potential but is not very good at defending at this point in time (and last season, watch him ball watching for the second goal against Fleetwood) but unfortunately we are not allowed to say that because he is:
- one of our own
- only 22
- McKenna obviously sees something in him
- does a fist pump
There would appear to be no room for those with vaild points of view to go against the orthodoxy of the ultra-Clarkeites. [Post edited 5 Nov 2023 18:16]
|
That's boll0cks on a number of levels. Ultra-Clarkeites? Bizarre. |  |
| |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 07:18 - Nov 6 with 2184 views | DJR |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 05:37 - Nov 6 by charlie1 |
Probably 8 with the ball, 4 without.
It’s his positioning and decision making off the ball that lets him down.
Have a look at Birmingham’s second goal. When they clear from Hirst’s nod down, Clarke’s standing next to the winger who ultimately puts the cross in for the og.
But Harry is ball watching and follows it into the middle rather than sprinting back with his winger into position.
Wolfy is exposed to his right when he needs to be covering the centre and can’t get out to the cross.
Similar with Fulham’s first. Clarke is LB but comes way too far across when Axel steps up.
Watch the reply and you’ll see at no stage does he look to see who is outside him. Doesn’t take his eye off the ball until it’s on its way to the guy who scored.
By then it’s way too late to try and get out to the threat.
Will be a good player for us in a settled role, but while he’s in and out of the side and playing different positions teams at this level will exploit it. |
Rather harsh to pick out Clarke as to blame for that goal, not least because the number 7 who put in the cross came from deep and perhaps should have been picked up by Hutchinson. In any event, 9 times out of 10 Burgess wouldn't have steered the cross into his own net. [Post edited 6 Nov 2023 7:22]
|  | | |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 07:23 - Nov 6 with 2173 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 18:15 - Nov 5 by keebsdad |
The problem is that he has bags of potential but is not very good at defending at this point in time (and last season, watch him ball watching for the second goal against Fleetwood) but unfortunately we are not allowed to say that because he is:
- one of our own
- only 22
- McKenna obviously sees something in him
- does a fist pump
There would appear to be no room for those with vaild points of view to go against the orthodoxy of the ultra-Clarkeites. [Post edited 5 Nov 2023 18:16]
|
I think there are more people giving OTT criticism than refusing to acknowledge where he can develop. There seems a growing need to look at what he can't do rather than what he can do/what he offers.
What I would say is that the lopsided formation we play means that the opposition's left winger is often the out ball and our RB has to do quite a lot of one v one defending. Williams is a lot better than Clarke at that at the moment. Donacien is a better defender but substantially worse at providing attacking impetus/drive. Our first goal on Saturday, there is no way Donacien nips in that high/central and clips the ball over to Scarlett. | | | |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 07:54 - Nov 6 with 2140 views | Dubtractor |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 08:36 - Nov 5 by tractorboy1978 |
There is a narrative building up against Clarke that is horrible to see. He's a 22 year old with all the raw attributes to be a great player for us but he is still learning many aspects of the game.
His 'problem' is that he isn't as good as Williams right now - but people need to remember Williams has played 50 odd games in the PL, is on £50k a week and is really a Premier League player we are fortunate to have here due to his relationship with McKenna.
Clarke deserves far more respect. An Ipswich boy that loves the club and was a key cog in a side that won 13 of the last 15 games last season. |
Hard agree with this.
Every season there is one player who gets more criticism than is fair. I think it is clear who this seasons candidate is. |  |
| |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 08:24 - Nov 6 with 2109 views | Churchman |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 13:55 - Nov 5 by DJR |
Personally, I don't think he's tall enough to be a modern day centre half, except in an emergency. |
You have a point. The internet says he’s 5ft 11ins. I could have sworn he was taller than that. Oh well, annual eye test due in December. |  | | |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 08:30 - Nov 6 with 2105 views | BlueBoots |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 07:54 - Nov 6 by Dubtractor |
Hard agree with this.
Every season there is one player who gets more criticism than is fair. I think it is clear who this seasons candidate is. |
2 pages in, so thought I'd better be the first person to mention that all our right backs have a harder job on their hands with Burns out. Not questioning the workrate off the ball of his replacements, but Burns tends to hold our width far more than any of them (if anyone knows a website that does those fancy heatmap things, let me know), so opposition teams are less likely to get a free run at us down that wing. |  |
| |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 08:35 - Nov 6 with 2086 views | charlie1 |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 07:18 - Nov 6 by DJR |
Rather harsh to pick out Clarke as to blame for that goal, not least because the number 7 who put in the cross came from deep and perhaps should have been picked up by Hutchinson. In any event, 9 times out of 10 Burgess wouldn't have steered the cross into his own net. [Post edited 6 Nov 2023 7:22]
|
As I say, watch the replay of that goal.
Hutchinson has broken into the box to back-up Hirst for Chappers cross, exactly as you’d want him to.
Pause it at the point the clearance is made straight after Hirst’s nod down.
Clarke is literally no more than about 4 feet from the Brum 7, but ignores him completely and chases the ball like a spaniel rather than get back into position.
All of which leaves him treading water in the middle of the park and the no. 7 in acres of space in our right back position.
There are, of course, other factors to consider in that goal, but I’m only talking about Clarke’s role in it because this is a thread about him. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 08:47 - Nov 6 with 2063 views | DJR |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 08:35 - Nov 6 by charlie1 |
As I say, watch the replay of that goal.
Hutchinson has broken into the box to back-up Hirst for Chappers cross, exactly as you’d want him to.
Pause it at the point the clearance is made straight after Hirst’s nod down.
Clarke is literally no more than about 4 feet from the Brum 7, but ignores him completely and chases the ball like a spaniel rather than get back into position.
All of which leaves him treading water in the middle of the park and the no. 7 in acres of space in our right back position.
There are, of course, other factors to consider in that goal, but I’m only talking about Clarke’s role in it because this is a thread about him. |
Having now looked at the extended highlights, I still think it's harsh to single out Clarke given we were caught on the break and he was out of position to start with. In any event, Woolfenden moved out to the right to cover him.
But the point you make at the end indicates that if the thread were about Woolfenden or Burgess, no doubt they would be criticised for their role in the goal.
And sometimes in football these things happen, especially when a team is caught on the break.
I would add that I was actually at the game and thought the defence, including Clarke, did really well to limit Birmingham to very few real chances, despite all their hufffing and puffing. Indeed, their first goal was a bit of a fluke too because the shot which led to the goal would have reached Hladky had it been hit properly. [Post edited 6 Nov 2023 9:34]
| | | |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 09:24 - Nov 6 with 2014 views | billlm |
His Achilles injury is hampering him this will take time to heal properly |  | | |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 09:33 - Nov 6 with 1992 views | Darth_Koont |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 09:24 - Nov 6 by billlm |
His Achilles injury is hampering him this will take time to heal properly |
Good point.
If that affects his acceleration over small distances or quick changes of direction then that might explain why he's having to gamble on diving in and making a challenge or alternatively standing 5 yards off. Tracking/shepherding the opposition player would seem the best option but maybe that's just too difficult at the moment. |  |
| |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 09:46 - Nov 6 with 1963 views | AlanG296 |
It is inevitable that as a club with ambition to progress up the leagues management will be looking to upgrade positions whenever a suitable and viable upgrade is possible. Interesting thing about Clarke's position is that with Williams the manager upgraded it just half a season after Clarke joined. | | | |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 09:48 - Nov 6 with 1954 views | Herbivore |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 09:46 - Nov 6 by AlanG296 |
It is inevitable that as a club with ambition to progress up the leagues management will be looking to upgrade positions whenever a suitable and viable upgrade is possible. Interesting thing about Clarke's position is that with Williams the manager upgraded it just half a season after Clarke joined. |
Think that's a slightly skewed way of looking at it. At the time we signed Williams we'd just let Leigh go and Clarke was struggling with his Achilles injury, Williams was signed to add quality and depth across both full back positions and not as a straightforward "upgrade" on Clarke. | |
| |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 10:16 - Nov 6 with 1912 views | AlanG296 |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 09:48 - Nov 6 by Herbivore |
Think that's a slightly skewed way of looking at it. At the time we signed Williams we'd just let Leigh go and Clarke was struggling with his Achilles injury, Williams was signed to add quality and depth across both full back positions and not as a straightforward "upgrade" on Clarke. |
Not saying Williams was signed specifically as an upgrade for Clarke but fact remains that Williams, perhaps signed for versatility, is a better player in that position. Clarke was an upgrade on the previous occupier of it. If we are to be the success the owners and most desire, every position will be upgraded over time. We can appreciate players for how well they do for us but when they lose their place because someone better has become available, there's no room for sentiment. Progress for the club is paramount. | | | |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 10:22 - Nov 6 with 1901 views | Herbivore |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 10:16 - Nov 6 by AlanG296 |
Not saying Williams was signed specifically as an upgrade for Clarke but fact remains that Williams, perhaps signed for versatility, is a better player in that position. Clarke was an upgrade on the previous occupier of it. If we are to be the success the owners and most desire, every position will be upgraded over time. We can appreciate players for how well they do for us but when they lose their place because someone better has become available, there's no room for sentiment. Progress for the club is paramount. |
Williams has absolutely grabbed his opportunity with both hands and deserves to be first choice, there's no question about that. It's just a shame that some fans (not saying this applies to you) seem to be more or less writing Clarke off after a few mixed performances. He's still very young and has plenty of potential and I suspect he'll still play an important part in our season. | |
| |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 10:26 - Nov 6 with 1878 views | bobbyramsey |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 10:16 - Nov 6 by AlanG296 |
Not saying Williams was signed specifically as an upgrade for Clarke but fact remains that Williams, perhaps signed for versatility, is a better player in that position. Clarke was an upgrade on the previous occupier of it. If we are to be the success the owners and most desire, every position will be upgraded over time. We can appreciate players for how well they do for us but when they lose their place because someone better has become available, there's no room for sentiment. Progress for the club is paramount. |
I expect many of our current squad will be "falling by the wayside" over the coming months and years.
It happens if you want to progress.... |  | | |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 10:42 - Nov 6 with 1875 views | jayessess |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 18:15 - Nov 5 by keebsdad |
The problem is that he has bags of potential but is not very good at defending at this point in time (and last season, watch him ball watching for the second goal against Fleetwood) but unfortunately we are not allowed to say that because he is:
- one of our own
- only 22
- McKenna obviously sees something in him
- does a fist pump
There would appear to be no room for those with vaild points of view to go against the orthodoxy of the ultra-Clarkeites. [Post edited 5 Nov 2023 18:16]
|
Honestly, it's the opposite. Every time a player comes through the academy or if they're from the area, people get hyper-critical. It's usually couched in exactly these terms, that they're getting an easy ride because they're a local lad, but the reverse is true. |  |
| |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 10:55 - Nov 6 with 1847 views | _clive_baker_ |
I think there seems to be a lot of expectation on him, perhaps unfairly. Maybe it's because he's 'one of our own' and quite a confident figure with the whole fist pump thing, but in reality he's a 22 year old who is still pretty wet behind the ears in terms of senior experience. Does seem to be a bit of a target from fans which is odd, especially when you consider his profile.
Someone told me that the fee to get him here was actually quite a bit lower than that reported, as there were certain sell-ons etc as part of his transfer to Arsenal that we could effectively forgo, so the cash outlay was quite low. It seems every bit a deal that did and still does make sense to have done. Young, a powerful runner, and physically he has all the attributes. I'm sure he'll keep improving, but I think he's got a long way to go still. Defensively and positionally I think he's come up short against better quality opposition, and rightly is behind Williams in the pecking order. Nonetheless he's a decent sub option right now, good versatility. |  | | |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 11:10 - Nov 6 with 1790 views | keebsdad |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 10:42 - Nov 6 by jayessess |
Honestly, it's the opposite. Every time a player comes through the academy or if they're from the area, people get hyper-critical. It's usually couched in exactly these terms, that they're getting an easy ride because they're a local lad, but the reverse is true. |
I would beg to differ in Clarke's case as there were howls of outrage (and 100 downvotes which implied I hit raw nerves) when I started a thread entitled "Harry Clarke is not the answer - discuss" after the final match at Fleetwood. All of the points raised to support him were along the lines of:
- one of our own
- only 22
- McKenna sees something in him
- he does a fist pump (and therefore must be a good old boy)
The original OP was about whether he deserved a 4 or an 8 and some on here have correctly gone with 4 for defence and 8 for attack but others seem to still have blinkers on about his defensive capabilities. | | | |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 11:14 - Nov 6 with 1775 views | Darth_Koont |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 10:22 - Nov 6 by Herbivore |
Williams has absolutely grabbed his opportunity with both hands and deserves to be first choice, there's no question about that. It's just a shame that some fans (not saying this applies to you) seem to be more or less writing Clarke off after a few mixed performances. He's still very young and has plenty of potential and I suspect he'll still play an important part in our season. |
Also, writing off any player under McKenna's coaching looks foolish when we've seen how "surplus" or "not good enough" players like Donacien, Hladky, Burgess and Harness have emerged as key players at different times.
But insane for a young player who has been playing in fits and starts plus dealing with a long-standing injury. | |
| |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 11:16 - Nov 6 with 1762 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 11:10 - Nov 6 by keebsdad |
I would beg to differ in Clarke's case as there were howls of outrage (and 100 downvotes which implied I hit raw nerves) when I started a thread entitled "Harry Clarke is not the answer - discuss" after the final match at Fleetwood. All of the points raised to support him were along the lines of:
- one of our own
- only 22
- McKenna sees something in him
- he does a fist pump (and therefore must be a good old boy)
The original OP was about whether he deserved a 4 or an 8 and some on here have correctly gone with 4 for defence and 8 for attack but others seem to still have blinkers on about his defensive capabilities. |
I'd say that the downvotes are more to do with you posting a negative thread straight after we'd won 13 from 15 games and clinched promotion than anything else!
I'm not sure anyone on this thread has suggested he is the finished article yet. | | | |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 11:16 - Nov 6 with 1761 views | Mookamoo |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 07:23 - Nov 6 by tractorboy1978 |
I think there are more people giving OTT criticism than refusing to acknowledge where he can develop. There seems a growing need to look at what he can't do rather than what he can do/what he offers.
What I would say is that the lopsided formation we play means that the opposition's left winger is often the out ball and our RB has to do quite a lot of one v one defending. Williams is a lot better than Clarke at that at the moment. Donacien is a better defender but substantially worse at providing attacking impetus/drive. Our first goal on Saturday, there is no way Donacien nips in that high/central and clips the ball over to Scarlett. |
Good to watch him on the highlights from Saturday. Involved in both goals.
He is certainly not the sort of player who goes missing during a game and when we get to the pointy end of the season or go through a sticky patch, his fight and passion might be just what we need. |  | | |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 11:22 - Nov 6 with 1746 views | jayessess |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 11:10 - Nov 6 by keebsdad |
I would beg to differ in Clarke's case as there were howls of outrage (and 100 downvotes which implied I hit raw nerves) when I started a thread entitled "Harry Clarke is not the answer - discuss" after the final match at Fleetwood. All of the points raised to support him were along the lines of:
- one of our own
- only 22
- McKenna sees something in him
- he does a fist pump (and therefore must be a good old boy)
The original OP was about whether he deserved a 4 or an 8 and some on here have correctly gone with 4 for defence and 8 for attack but others seem to still have blinkers on about his defensive capabilities. |
So, six months ago, at the end of a run of 16 games where we won 14 and drew 2 matches, culminating in promotion, a run that Harry Clarke was almost ever present in, you decided to start a thread criticising him and you're still thinking about it six months later.
Gotta laugh that you think this disproves the point I'm making about people fixating on "some of our own" and getting hyper-critical. [Post edited 6 Nov 2023 11:25]
| |
| |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 11:29 - Nov 6 with 1716 views | Herbivore |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 11:10 - Nov 6 by keebsdad |
I would beg to differ in Clarke's case as there were howls of outrage (and 100 downvotes which implied I hit raw nerves) when I started a thread entitled "Harry Clarke is not the answer - discuss" after the final match at Fleetwood. All of the points raised to support him were along the lines of:
- one of our own
- only 22
- McKenna sees something in him
- he does a fist pump (and therefore must be a good old boy)
The original OP was about whether he deserved a 4 or an 8 and some on here have correctly gone with 4 for defence and 8 for attack but others seem to still have blinkers on about his defensive capabilities. |
Pretty much everyone on this thread has said he has work to do on his defending, particularly his positioning. You probably got down votes for both the timing (after something of a dead rubber final game following an outstanding run of form) and for singling out a player who had improved the team after joining in January. Our right side was much more effective after Clarke came in. So yeah, you're talking gubbins, lad. [Post edited 6 Nov 2023 11:31]
| |
| |
| Can't decide whether to give clarke a 4 or an 8 on 12:01 - Nov 6 with 1660 views | baxterbasics |
Clarke reminds me a little of Matt Richards in he early Royle days. Handy going forwards, but suspect when defending, like various have already said. Too many opposition goals have resulted from him being beaten by his man. I hope he can improve his game, he's a popular player for good reasons. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
