| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked 14:48 - Dec 4 with 11869 views | Woolfenthen |
2 years on, who would have imagined where would be |  | | |  |
| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 15:22 - Dec 6 with 890 views | N2_Blue |
| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 14:57 - Dec 6 by The_Flashing_Smile |
A large dollop of hindsight there, most of us didn't even know who McKenna was a month before, let alone how good he would be. My comments are all based on what we knew at the time, not what's transpired since, otherwise I'd have swerved Hurst, Lambert AND Cook and gone straight for McKenna. We'd be in the Champions League by now! |
In relation to McKenna yes, but not regarding PC. We were getting worse rather than improving, his coaching team had zero impact and we were just drifting further into L1 obscurity. I think we were relatively patient with him considering the players he had been able to bring in. He just wasn’t good enough and his unprofessional one of the lads persona didn’t fit our club.
I just think those that stating he went a bit too soon for their liking or wasn’t given enough of a chance are seriously misguided. It was painful watching him make a mess of things |  |
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| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 15:40 - Dec 6 with 862 views | Herbivore |
| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 14:52 - Dec 6 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Those 3 games could've been the 'new manager coming' bounce so often talked about. Players would've been putting in the extra effort knowing Gill was only a caretaker and the new boss was watching. And/or we happened to be up against 3 rubbish teams.
Either way, I'm not sure it's a big enough sample size to suggest Matt Gill turned it around, and therefore it ought to be easy for the next man. |
One of the wins was away at Hull (who went up) and one away at Accrington (where we never win) so not particularly easy fixtures. But at least we're agreed that the context means that Clive's position wasn't contradictory, which was the original debate. |  |
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| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 16:00 - Dec 6 with 818 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 15:40 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
One of the wins was away at Hull (who went up) and one away at Accrington (where we never win) so not particularly easy fixtures. But at least we're agreed that the context means that Clive's position wasn't contradictory, which was the original debate. |
No, we're not agreed on that I'm afraid. I've explained why Gill's 3 games aren't necessarily proof of anything (as the players would have been trying harder to impress the next boss, and 3 games is a tiny sample size anyway), so we're left with on the one hand we were in freefall and never going to make the playoffs - and on the other we were only just outside the playoffs and still with a chance of top 2.
People use 1 (freefall) as a stick to beat Lambert with and the other (only just outside play offs, capable of top 2) as a stick to beat Cook with. That's contradictory. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 16:03 - Dec 6 with 812 views | Herbivore |
| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 16:00 - Dec 6 by The_Flashing_Smile |
No, we're not agreed on that I'm afraid. I've explained why Gill's 3 games aren't necessarily proof of anything (as the players would have been trying harder to impress the next boss, and 3 games is a tiny sample size anyway), so we're left with on the one hand we were in freefall and never going to make the playoffs - and on the other we were only just outside the playoffs and still with a chance of top 2.
People use 1 (freefall) as a stick to beat Lambert with and the other (only just outside play offs, capable of top 2) as a stick to beat Cook with. That's contradictory. |
Yeah, it's not though as has been explained to you. But we are at impasse so I'll bid you good day. | |
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| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 16:35 - Dec 6 with 782 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 16:03 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
Yeah, it's not though as has been explained to you. But we are at impasse so I'll bid you good day. |
I've explained right there how it's contradictory but you just won't have it because of your dislike of Cook (presumably). Your only defence is "well Gill got them playing well for 3 games" which is where the impasse is I suspect. You think it proves they were actually decent enough, just with a bad manager. I suggest they were trying harder due to a new manager watching, but soon reverted to type.
Neither of us knows the truth because those players were mostly bombed out after that. It would've been fascinating to see what McKenna would've done with them, but we'll never know now and I'm glad we won't because the players we have now are much better (most of which brought in by Cook!)
It doesn't matter now anyway. It all worked out in the end. Onwards and upwards. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 17:23 - Dec 6 with 739 views | Geomorph |
Unbelievable to think that players such as Burgess, who looked pretty much non league up here that night against Barrow, is the same player as the one we have now |  | | |
| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 17:23 - Dec 6 with 737 views | Herbivore |
| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 16:35 - Dec 6 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I've explained right there how it's contradictory but you just won't have it because of your dislike of Cook (presumably). Your only defence is "well Gill got them playing well for 3 games" which is where the impasse is I suspect. You think it proves they were actually decent enough, just with a bad manager. I suggest they were trying harder due to a new manager watching, but soon reverted to type.
Neither of us knows the truth because those players were mostly bombed out after that. It would've been fascinating to see what McKenna would've done with them, but we'll never know now and I'm glad we won't because the players we have now are much better (most of which brought in by Cook!)
It doesn't matter now anyway. It all worked out in the end. Onwards and upwards. |
I won't have it because it's not contradictory. Lambert wouldn't have taken us up because he was hopeless and had taken us on a downward spiral (we were flying at the top of the table early season) but because of our strong start and a three game winning run the play offs were still very much achievable. So no contradiction to be had there. That we went on a shocking run under Cook and still finished not many points off the play offs is further evidence of that, and let's not forget how bullish Cook himself was about taking us straight up when he arrived. So it can both be true that Lambert was hopeless and took us downwards (hence he got sacked) AND that the play offs were still very achievable when Cook came in. But I know you won't agree, hence the impasse.
And yes, all worked out in the end. Glad we got rid of the hopeless Cook when we did and brought in one of the brightest young managers in the country, the difference between McKenna and Cook is absolutely night and day. | |
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| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 19:26 - Dec 6 with 675 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 17:23 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
I won't have it because it's not contradictory. Lambert wouldn't have taken us up because he was hopeless and had taken us on a downward spiral (we were flying at the top of the table early season) but because of our strong start and a three game winning run the play offs were still very much achievable. So no contradiction to be had there. That we went on a shocking run under Cook and still finished not many points off the play offs is further evidence of that, and let's not forget how bullish Cook himself was about taking us straight up when he arrived. So it can both be true that Lambert was hopeless and took us downwards (hence he got sacked) AND that the play offs were still very achievable when Cook came in. But I know you won't agree, hence the impasse.
And yes, all worked out in the end. Glad we got rid of the hopeless Cook when we did and brought in one of the brightest young managers in the country, the difference between McKenna and Cook is absolutely night and day. |
It's contradictory to say "We've got no chance of the play offs" then say, "Cook's rubbish because we didn't make the play offs".
Unless you're giving Cook higher standards to be judged on. Hardly fair is it?
Totally agree with your last point though. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 19:36 - Dec 6 with 665 views | Herbivore |
| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 19:26 - Dec 6 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's contradictory to say "We've got no chance of the play offs" then say, "Cook's rubbish because we didn't make the play offs".
Unless you're giving Cook higher standards to be judged on. Hardly fair is it?
Totally agree with your last point though. |
You're back to cherry picking and/or mischaracterising what has been said again. Let's leave it there on what we agree on, which is that Cook going was excellent for us and McKenna is our king. | |
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| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 20:06 - Dec 6 with 635 views | Mullet |
| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 17:23 - Dec 6 by Geomorph |
Unbelievable to think that players such as Burgess, who looked pretty much non league up here that night against Barrow, is the same player as the one we have now |
I met his Uncle after Wednesday and we had a great chat on the train to Manchester. That Barrow game came up, clearly pains Cameron still.
The fact people are on here defending Cook still is baffling. |  |
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| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 23:25 - Dec 6 with 554 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 2 years ago today, Paul Cook sacked on 19:36 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
You're back to cherry picking and/or mischaracterising what has been said again. Let's leave it there on what we agree on, which is that Cook going was excellent for us and McKenna is our king. |
I haven't cherry picking or mischaracterised anything. That's exactly what was said.
McKenna is our king. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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