| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 16:14 - Dec 11 with 4533 views | BlueBadger |
Are we allowed to say 'sleepwalking into fascism' yet? |  |
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| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 01:06 - Dec 12 with 1071 views | Zapers |
| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 18:56 - Dec 11 by lowhouseblue |
oh don't be silly. |
Drama, drama, any excuse for more drama.
Silly is an accurate description! |  | | |
| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 08:00 - Dec 12 with 969 views | Herbivore |
| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 23:51 - Dec 11 by lowhouseblue |
what delusional nonsense. stuff i disagree with = fascism. seriously, get a grip. "if you want more 'german fascism' analogies ......". jeez. it is utterly disrespectful to those who have lived under and died under real fascist regimes to suggest that our fully functioning democracy and judiciary has anything to do with fascism. you may disagree with, and vote against policies, but that doesn't make them fascist. i'm going to leave this thread cos really life is too short. |
Another feature of fascist states has been their capacity to cow the middle class and convince them that what they are doing is completely normal. Just saying. |  |
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| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 08:01 - Dec 12 with 964 views | Herbivore |
| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 01:06 - Dec 12 by Zapers |
Drama, drama, any excuse for more drama.
Silly is an accurate description! |
You've really added to the debate again here, friend. Kudos to you for such meaningful contributions. | |
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| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 10:12 - Dec 12 with 875 views | DJR |
Somebody earlier mentioned Orwell (whose take on things is always worth considering), and here is a link to his article "What is Fascism?" which includes some of the words quoted in that post.
https://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_Please/english/efasc
Perhaps the key quote is the following.
"It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless." [Post edited 12 Dec 2023 10:57]
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| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 10:31 - Dec 12 with 828 views | Blueschev |
| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 10:12 - Dec 12 by DJR |
Somebody earlier mentioned Orwell (whose take on things is always worth considering), and here is a link to his article "What is Fascism?" which includes some of the words quoted in that post.
https://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_Please/english/efasc
Perhaps the key quote is the following.
"It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless." [Post edited 12 Dec 2023 10:57]
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It's difficult to define fascism as unlike other ideologies it doesn't have any direct intellectual influences, and fascist regimes of the past have all had characteristics unique to their environment.
Personally I think it's daft to say we're anywhere near approaching fascism in this country. There are no political parties with armed militias, openly advocating the elimination of democratic institutions. Having said that there is a worrying turn towards authoritarianism with the current government, which should be highlighted and fought at every turn. Crying 'fascist' at everything you don't like does nothing to counter this trend, if anything it helps facilitate it further. |  | | |
| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 10:56 - Dec 12 with 782 views | DJR |
| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 10:31 - Dec 12 by Blueschev |
It's difficult to define fascism as unlike other ideologies it doesn't have any direct intellectual influences, and fascist regimes of the past have all had characteristics unique to their environment.
Personally I think it's daft to say we're anywhere near approaching fascism in this country. There are no political parties with armed militias, openly advocating the elimination of democratic institutions. Having said that there is a worrying turn towards authoritarianism with the current government, which should be highlighted and fought at every turn. Crying 'fascist' at everything you don't like does nothing to counter this trend, if anything it helps facilitate it further. |
Authoritarian is a a good description. There are also elements of xenophobia in play, but given the numbers arriving, that tends to manifest itself more in terms of rhetoric than anything else. | | | |
| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 12:36 - Dec 12 with 720 views | BlueBadger |
| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 01:06 - Dec 12 by Zapers |
Drama, drama, any excuse for more drama.
Silly is an accurate description! |
Pretty sure this kind of name calling and belittling is bullying. Thought you were dead against bullying? | |
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| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 12:37 - Dec 12 with 715 views | jayessess |
| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 10:31 - Dec 12 by Blueschev |
It's difficult to define fascism as unlike other ideologies it doesn't have any direct intellectual influences, and fascist regimes of the past have all had characteristics unique to their environment.
Personally I think it's daft to say we're anywhere near approaching fascism in this country. There are no political parties with armed militias, openly advocating the elimination of democratic institutions. Having said that there is a worrying turn towards authoritarianism with the current government, which should be highlighted and fought at every turn. Crying 'fascist' at everything you don't like does nothing to counter this trend, if anything it helps facilitate it further. |
One reason fascism tends to get employed in these discussions is that WW2 is one of the few bits of global history which is widely understood by much of the British public.
And whilst, yes, Italian, German and Spanish fascisms all had features distinctive to their particular societies, there are recognisable commonalities between them (authoritarianism, hyper-nationalism, exaggerated fear of socialism/communism, disgust at liberalism, moral panic at challenges to traditional gender norms, revanchism, militarism) and it is useful to identify those forces and what impact they've had on societies historically.
Especially as when those forces do attempt to push us towards more authoritarian societies in the 21st Century, they won't be re-appearing in their 1930s guise. I think, for instance, that figures like Orban, Trump, Bolsonaro, Meloni, Wilders, Le Pen etc., clearly represent similar forces to inter-war fascism, similar resentments amongst their base, similar ambitions in terms of how they want to use state power. But none of them fit the classic brief in terms of having a uniformed paramilitary and overt ambitions to dismantle democratic institutions (at least in the formal sense of having elections). When you have a public that recognises what fascism is and does, I don't know how useful it is to say "technically this is just authoritarian populism".
(Also, squeamishness about this mode of description is not generally shared amongst conservatives, who are often quite happy describing everything they don't like as Communism/Stalinism etc. without that ever being deemed an offence to gulag survivors or anything like that) [Post edited 13 Dec 2023 8:25]
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| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 14:55 - Dec 12 with 635 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Nice to see they've got their priorities straight part 7867865746352324341 on 12:37 - Dec 12 by jayessess |
One reason fascism tends to get employed in these discussions is that WW2 is one of the few bits of global history which is widely understood by much of the British public.
And whilst, yes, Italian, German and Spanish fascisms all had features distinctive to their particular societies, there are recognisable commonalities between them (authoritarianism, hyper-nationalism, exaggerated fear of socialism/communism, disgust at liberalism, moral panic at challenges to traditional gender norms, revanchism, militarism) and it is useful to identify those forces and what impact they've had on societies historically.
Especially as when those forces do attempt to push us towards more authoritarian societies in the 21st Century, they won't be re-appearing in their 1930s guise. I think, for instance, that figures like Orban, Trump, Bolsonaro, Meloni, Wilders, Le Pen etc., clearly represent similar forces to inter-war fascism, similar resentments amongst their base, similar ambitions in terms of how they want to use state power. But none of them fit the classic brief in terms of having a uniformed paramilitary and overt ambitions to dismantle democratic institutions (at least in the formal sense of having elections). When you have a public that recognises what fascism is and does, I don't know how useful it is to say "technically this is just authoritarian populism".
(Also, squeamishness about this mode of description is not generally shared amongst conservatives, who are often quite happy describing everything they don't like as Communism/Stalinism etc. without that ever being deemed an offence to gulag survivors or anything like that) [Post edited 13 Dec 2023 8:25]
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As I see it, the only reasons many of the current quasi-fascist regimes do not go full on is because they do not have the unqualified support of the military, which thankfully in most countries, remains relatively independent of the current governing party... |  |
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