| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... 23:12 - Jan 4 with 8126 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Shame on you. |  |
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| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 16:53 - Jan 5 with 1481 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 16:25 - Jan 5 by monkeymagic |
Please accept my apologies for staying silent. On reflection I can now see that me posting I’ll informed but heartfelt views on this issue would rapidly bring an end to the conflict. |
Your moment has come, you can now express your position through the simple medium of uppies or downies on the other thread. | |
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| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 16:55 - Jan 5 with 1459 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 16:32 - Jan 5 by GlasgowBlue |
And there is the perfect example of somebody being highly critical of the Israeli government and military, without falling back on lazy antisemitic tropes.
AM has compared the Israeli state to a similar regime that carried out ethnic war crimes, and there is no issue with that. When people compare Israel’s actions to that of the Nazis, they are going for maximum hurt to Jewish people. Attacking them as Jews.
Some people would do well to learn from this post. |
Immediate ceasefire, yes or no? | |
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| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 16:58 - Jan 5 with 1441 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 16:39 - Jan 5 by eireblue |
Ahh man, I am so sorry to disappoint you, I know you think I have a lot of power in the upper echelons of quite a few world governments and other organisations, but, I am going to have to let you down gently on this one, my powers of persuasion don’t even extend to my partner.
So even when I used my very serious voice, and frowned, guess what, neither Hamas or the IDF stopped fighting.
The compassionate vegan choice, would have been for people to be against violence for the last few decades, in any scenario.
A shame you weren’t on the case prior to Oct 7th Bankster, maybe you could have convinced Hamas to stop abusing the Human Rights for 2 Million Palestinians, and spend money on food, medicine and making life better for those millions, rather than buying arms to kill more people.
Try not to feel too guilty about that Bankster, but worth creating and popping yourself into another column in your spreadsheet. |
A very long winded no then.
Enjoy your Gazan beach experience when it comes. | |
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| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 17:02 - Jan 5 with 1428 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 14:50 - Jan 5 by Nutkins_Return |
Does it? I disagree.
They've shown on numerous occasions that they will make attempts to lesson civilian casualties etc. Palestinians have told of the calls they receive to get out of buildings and warnings etc. They are going after Hamas and who can blame them.
However!! I don't accept they have done enough and I don't accept the loss of life to civilians. I can understand it because Hamas have done everything possible to protect themselves in amongst civilians. But the loss of life and suffering is too much.
But walking in Israel shoes I have not. I can only imagine the anger/pain based on what Hamas did to them on that recent day.
The whole situation is so complex and based on so much troubles history. It's beyond repair.
The original post is unfair as so few understand the situation. Hamas' actions were pure evil. Pure evil! Israel have shown some restraint and have taken actions to limit civilian casualties. For me not enough. Their actions have been far more humane than Hamas, but the scale is also much higher. Not a lot of right in this war. [Post edited 5 Jan 14:51]
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Some IDF officers in charge of certain "actions" have done as you said and taken steps to ensure civilian casualties were "limited". Others haven't. Read Layla Moran's relaying of first hand witness territory from members of her family, who are part of the Palestinian Christian minority (emphatically NOT Hamas supporters!) hiding in a church. An older couple who took bins out were shot by snipers.
Layla Moran is as "sensible" a politician as you could wish to meet. I trust her testimony.
Similarly I quoted the Secretary General of the United Nations. Mr Diplomatic! He testifies to the death of 136 UN medical, press department, aid and development workers. It isn't possible to be trying to "actively minimise casualties" and kill 136 UN workers. They don't sit around Hamas rocket launchers drinking tea. They are in schools and hospitals.
There is equivalence in the evil of throwing hand grenades into civilian houses (Hamas) and firing on refugees who have been told to leave an area as they obey that order (IDF).
But there is no equivalence in scale, sadly, anymore.
There are more examples. I don't watch the videos. I can't. I didn't watch the videos of the Hamas attacks. I can't watch videos of violence to children.
I speak rarely on this issue on here, because it feels so hopeless.
But I believe that the Netanyahu Government have abdicated any right to be considered anything other than war criminals, and that the international community should be saying so clearly, rather than the weasel words we are used to hearing. |  | | |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 17:15 - Jan 5 with 1392 views | eireblue |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 16:58 - Jan 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
A very long winded no then.
Enjoy your Gazan beach experience when it comes. |
Wasn’t answering a question.
But thanks, shame you didn’t campaign about this against Hamas before, just think, maybe they could have helped 2 Million Palestinians in their charge, to build up a peaceful environment and have their own beach resorts!
Don’t feel bad Bankster, I won’t blame you too much because I can’t go to a beach holiday in Gaza due to your lack of action, no honestly, don’t feel you have let down 2 Million Palestinians by not doing enough to support Palestinians before 7th of October. |  | | |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 17:44 - Jan 5 with 1349 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 17:15 - Jan 5 by eireblue |
Wasn’t answering a question.
But thanks, shame you didn’t campaign about this against Hamas before, just think, maybe they could have helped 2 Million Palestinians in their charge, to build up a peaceful environment and have their own beach resorts!
Don’t feel bad Bankster, I won’t blame you too much because I can’t go to a beach holiday in Gaza due to your lack of action, no honestly, don’t feel you have let down 2 Million Palestinians by not doing enough to support Palestinians before 7th of October. |
So you are in favour of an immediate ceasefire?
Honestly you and your appologist chums are setting up a whole city of straw people today. | |
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| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 18:07 - Jan 5 with 1312 views | eireblue |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 17:44 - Jan 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So you are in favour of an immediate ceasefire?
Honestly you and your appologist chums are setting up a whole city of straw people today. |
Look, I know you feel like you are making up for lost time, by not speaking out about Hamas and their human rights abuses, before October the 7th, and by your definition, you were a Hamas apologist.
Maybe that weighs heavily on you.
Clearly you shouldn’t feel guilty about previously not calling for Hamas to stop terrorising millions of Palestinian people, you really shouldn’t consider yourself a Hamas apologist because of your history, in my eyes, you acan put that behind you and nd move on.
But I do understand, having felt responsibility for not calling on Hamas enough over the last few years you want to feel better by getting some TWTD pals together and expressing yourself on here.
Good luck with your spreadsheet I hope putting it all together makes you feel better.
You already have me in a column. So I’m good with the extent that I have helped you with that endeavour. | | | |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 18:47 - Jan 5 with 1272 views | Bluespeed225 |
Nah. | | | |
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| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 19:20 - Jan 5 with 1237 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 17:02 - Jan 5 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Some IDF officers in charge of certain "actions" have done as you said and taken steps to ensure civilian casualties were "limited". Others haven't. Read Layla Moran's relaying of first hand witness territory from members of her family, who are part of the Palestinian Christian minority (emphatically NOT Hamas supporters!) hiding in a church. An older couple who took bins out were shot by snipers.
Layla Moran is as "sensible" a politician as you could wish to meet. I trust her testimony.
Similarly I quoted the Secretary General of the United Nations. Mr Diplomatic! He testifies to the death of 136 UN medical, press department, aid and development workers. It isn't possible to be trying to "actively minimise casualties" and kill 136 UN workers. They don't sit around Hamas rocket launchers drinking tea. They are in schools and hospitals.
There is equivalence in the evil of throwing hand grenades into civilian houses (Hamas) and firing on refugees who have been told to leave an area as they obey that order (IDF).
But there is no equivalence in scale, sadly, anymore.
There are more examples. I don't watch the videos. I can't. I didn't watch the videos of the Hamas attacks. I can't watch videos of violence to children.
I speak rarely on this issue on here, because it feels so hopeless.
But I believe that the Netanyahu Government have abdicated any right to be considered anything other than war criminals, and that the international community should be saying so clearly, rather than the weasel words we are used to hearing. |
Excellent post. | |
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| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 19:26 - Jan 5 with 1219 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 19:20 - Jan 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Excellent post. |
Spot on. People like to pretend that this conflict is not wholly asymetric, regardless of the abhorrent moralities in play on either side.
This is a conflict in which IDF shot hostages by mistake, because they looked like civilians and waved a white flag.... | | | |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 21:47 - Jan 5 with 1137 views | DJR |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 19:26 - Jan 5 by redrickstuhaart |
Spot on. People like to pretend that this conflict is not wholly asymetric, regardless of the abhorrent moralities in play on either side.
This is a conflict in which IDF shot hostages by mistake, because they looked like civilians and waved a white flag.... |
I note references in this thread to a lack of reaction in relation to places like Syria and Yemen.
The difference it seems to me is that, in the case of Syria, there was no need for demonstrations and the like because the Government and media were strong in their condemnation of Assad, and that, in the case of Yemen, knowledge of what was going on was suppressed in the media and elsewhere because the aggressor was our ally Saudi Arabia, with UK military assistance.
The other factor is that one would not expect better of despotic regimes like Syria and Saudi Arabia. But that is not true of a democratic nation like Israel.
Indeed, to invoke one part of the IHRA definition of antisemitism, those who have concerns about Israeli action are only "requiring of it behaviour .... expected or demanded of any other democratic nation".
And certainly for my own part I would be requiring the same if it were the UK involved in action where such a high proportion of women and children were being killed or maimed. [Post edited 6 Jan 1:00]
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| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 21:53 - Jan 5 with 1119 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 21:47 - Jan 5 by DJR |
I note references in this thread to a lack of reaction in relation to places like Syria and Yemen.
The difference it seems to me is that, in the case of Syria, there was no need for demonstrations and the like because the Government and media were strong in their condemnation of Assad, and that, in the case of Yemen, knowledge of what was going on was suppressed in the media and elsewhere because the aggressor was our ally Saudi Arabia, with UK military assistance.
The other factor is that one would not expect better of despotic regimes like Syria and Saudi Arabia. But that is not true of a democratic nation like Israel.
Indeed, to invoke one part of the IHRA definition of antisemitism, those who have concerns about Israeli action are only "requiring of it behaviour .... expected or demanded of any other democratic nation".
And certainly for my own part I would be requiring the same if it were the UK involved in action where such a high proportion of women and children were being killed or maimed. [Post edited 6 Jan 1:00]
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When backed into a corner of a hole they have dug some people kick around aimlessly. | |
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| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 08:52 - Jan 7 with 924 views | DJR |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 10:34 - Jan 5 by Guthrum |
Israel has enough of a domestic arms industry to keep themselves going in a realtively low-level situation like this (as opposed to a multi-front war against other nation states) for a considerable time. It would need an actual blockade to stop supplies of fuel and raw materials. Plus, in a country as frequently attacked as Israel, I would expect there to be significant stockpiles and reserves.
Netanyahu will fight tooth and nail (as he has been doing) to preserve his position. A political fall could well lead to prosecution and imprisonment for him personally. That's a strong motivation to take things to the bitter end, whatever the cost.
As for peacekeepers, who provides them? They would have to be at least reasonably acceptable to both sides, while also militarily and politically strong enough to actually do the job effectively. Plus having rules of engagement sufficiently robust that they are not mere bystanders to violence. |
I don't think what you say is correct, as this from a Time article in early November indicates.
"As Israel races through its stockpiles of ammunition and air defense interceptors, it will be heavily dependent on longstanding U.S. support to replenish its stockpiles. The U.S. has promised to surge its military support for Israel, even as criticisms mount over the Biden administration’s failure to prevent the biggest recipient of U.S. military aid from causing significant civilian casualties in its offensive.
Israeli equipment and defense material will be resupplied based on their burn rate—the speed at which they are used in the ongoing military operations, says R. Clarke Cooper, former Assistant Secretary of State for Political-Military Affairs, the bureau which oversees arms transfers. The U.S. has already committed to sending Iron Dome air-defense missiles, small diameter bombs and JDAM kits, which convert unguided bombs into GPS-guided weapons to Israel. Boeing is reportedly speeding up the delivery of as many as 1,800 JDAMs, which the company produces in St. Charles, Missouri. These replenishments will come on top of previously agreed upon deals for advanced weaponry such as F-35 fighter jets, CH-53 heavy-lift helicopters, and KC-46 aerial refueling tankers, Cooper says, currently a non-resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council.
Whatever further aid is provided to Israel, it will come on top of decades-long military support for the country, which has helped make the IDF one of the most capable armed forces in the world. Since Israel’s founding in 1948, the U.S. has provided Israel with more than $130 billion in security assistance, more than the U.S. has provided to any country in the world. The U.S. currently supplies Israel with approximately $3.8 billion in security assistance annually."
And a further Time article on 30 December states the following.
"For the second time this month the Biden administration is bypassing Congress to approve an emergency weapons sale to Israel as Israel continues to prosecute its war against Hamas in Gaza under increasing international criticism.
The State Department said Friday that Secretary of State Antony Blinken had told Congress that he had made a second emergency determination covering a $147.5 million sale for equipment, including fuses, charges and primers, that is needed to make the 155 mm shells that Israel has already purchased function.
“Given the urgency of Israel’s defensive needs, the secretary notified Congress that he had exercised his delegated authority to determine an emergency existed necessitating the immediate approval of the transfer,” the department said.
“The United States is committed to the security of Israel, and it is vital to U.S. national interests to ensure Israel is able to defend itself against the threats it faces,” it said.
Blinken made a similar decision on Dec. 9, to approve the sale to Israel of nearly 14,000 rounds of tank ammunition worth more than $106 million." [Post edited 7 Jan 8:55]
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| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 09:09 - Jan 7 with 903 views | DJR |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 21:47 - Jan 5 by DJR |
I note references in this thread to a lack of reaction in relation to places like Syria and Yemen.
The difference it seems to me is that, in the case of Syria, there was no need for demonstrations and the like because the Government and media were strong in their condemnation of Assad, and that, in the case of Yemen, knowledge of what was going on was suppressed in the media and elsewhere because the aggressor was our ally Saudi Arabia, with UK military assistance.
The other factor is that one would not expect better of despotic regimes like Syria and Saudi Arabia. But that is not true of a democratic nation like Israel.
Indeed, to invoke one part of the IHRA definition of antisemitism, those who have concerns about Israeli action are only "requiring of it behaviour .... expected or demanded of any other democratic nation".
And certainly for my own part I would be requiring the same if it were the UK involved in action where such a high proportion of women and children were being killed or maimed. [Post edited 6 Jan 1:00]
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Another factor which seems to me to unique to the Israel-Palestine conflict is that has a history going back over 70 years, where feelings of injustice on one side over such a long period is likely to bring to the fore stronger emotions than other conflicts which tend to be of much shorter duration.
And to put the current operation in Gaza in context, the following article dated 22 December opens with the following passage.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-bombs-destruction-death-toll-scope-419488
"The Israeli military campaign in Gaza, experts say, now sits among the deadliest and most destructive in recent history.
In just over two months, the offensive has wreaked more destruction than the razing of Syria’s Aleppo between 2012 and 2016, Ukraine’s Mariupol or, proportionally, the Allied bombing of Germany in World War II. It has killed more civilians than the U.S.-led coalition did in its three-year campaign against the Islamic State group." [Post edited 7 Jan 10:35]
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| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 09:23 - Jan 7 with 882 views | DJR |
This looks like an interesting article in Haaretz, but my limited sign up to their website doesn't allow full access.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-04/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/am
This is the headline and introduction.
Amid Israeli Destruction in Gaza, a New Crime Against Humanity Emerges: Domicide
Observers of Israel's fierce bombing campaign in Gaza are invoking the term 'domicide.' Will the deliberate and systematic destruction of homes and basic infrastructure soon be legally defined as a crime against humanity – and where does this leave Israel? [Post edited 7 Jan 9:24]
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| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 09:33 - Jan 7 with 858 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 09:09 - Jan 7 by DJR |
Another factor which seems to me to unique to the Israel-Palestine conflict is that has a history going back over 70 years, where feelings of injustice on one side over such a long period is likely to bring to the fore stronger emotions than other conflicts which tend to be of much shorter duration.
And to put the current operation in Gaza in context, the following article dated 22 December opens with the following passage.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-bombs-destruction-death-toll-scope-419488
"The Israeli military campaign in Gaza, experts say, now sits among the deadliest and most destructive in recent history.
In just over two months, the offensive has wreaked more destruction than the razing of Syria’s Aleppo between 2012 and 2016, Ukraine’s Mariupol or, proportionally, the Allied bombing of Germany in World War II. It has killed more civilians than the U.S.-led coalition did in its three-year campaign against the Islamic State group." [Post edited 7 Jan 10:35]
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It makes you wonder how anybody could not be in favour of demanding an immediate ceasefire. | |
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| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 09:36 - Jan 7 with 843 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 09:33 - Jan 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
It makes you wonder how anybody could not be in favour of demanding an immediate ceasefire. |
They have killed as many UN workers as there are hostages.... | | | |
| Anybody silent on Gaza or an apologist for the I.D.F or Israeli state.... on 15:54 - Jan 7 with 684 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
'Two journalists have been killed in an Israeli air strike in southern Gaza this morning. Hamza Wael Dahdouh, a journalist with Al Jazeera and Mustafa Thuria, a video stringer for AFP, were killed while travelling in a car, the health ministry and medics confirmed to AFP. Reports suggest the car was hit in the region between Rafah and western Khan Younis.
Hamza Wael Dahdouh’s father, Wael Al-Dahdouh, is Al Jazeera’s Gaza bureau chief and was also recently wounded in a strike. His wife and two children were killed by a separate Israeli strike in the initial weeks of the war.
At least 77 journalists and media workers were killed between 7 October, when the war started, and 31 December, according to the New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists.
There have been major civilian casualties from strikes on the southern Gaza town of Khan Younis this morning. Health officials in Nasser hospital said on Sunday that Israeli strikes on houses in the town had killed 50 people, with many images coming through this morning of babies and children who have been killed.'
Ceasefire now!! | |
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