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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. 11:01 - Feb 4 with 3771 viewsNthQldITFC

Having seen the extended highlights:

I hadn't realised in real time how clear-cut the foul on Morsy was for the first goal - Keane just went right through the back of Morsy, hands out to push him too.

The second was (literally) at least a yard, probably a yard and a half offside - frame by frame it on youtube extended highlights if you're in ANY doubt. Attacker's right shoulder vs. Edmundson's right hand are the markers (Clarke was upfield of Edmundson at moment of delivery)

The outrageous thing is that in both cases the officials were in perfect position to see both events perfectly and there's absolutely no excuse for either of them. The ref for the first was static and had an unimpeded view from 20 yards and perpendicular to the contact so would have seen it VERY clearly. For the second, the linesman was bang in line and couldn't have failed to see the offside (maybe there was an orange jacket in the crowd is all I can think of).

Absolutely rank officiating, disgraceful. Not sure if it does any good at all, but I'd, for once, be thinking of an official complaint for those two events.

Edit: To officially gift Preston 2 goals inside the first 10 minutes effectively cost us the game and allowed the ex-Premier League monopoly to finally take shape.

Edit again: I'm gonna say 1 yard offside (not 1 ½) - those grass stripes are 6 yards (3 in 18 yard penalty box) - attacker's shoulder is one third of a stripe goalside and Fridge's hand one sixth at the moment the pass is made - nevertheless unmissable for a competent linesman in line.
[Post edited 4 Feb 11:29]

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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 13:06 - Feb 4 with 2750 viewsBrockleyBlue78

Amen.
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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 13:39 - Feb 4 with 2682 viewslongtimefan

“ Edit: To officially gift Preston 2 goals inside the first 10 minutes effectively cost us the game and allowed the ex-Premier League monopoly to finally take shape.”

Hope you’re not suggesting his performance was part of a conspiracy. Graham Scott is too incompetent to be any part of that

This is a referee who the PGMOL tried to demote from the Select Group of referees because they realised he wasn’t good enough. He only survived after contesting the demotion on some employment law grounds, not on refereeing ability.
[Post edited 4 Feb 14:04]
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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 13:47 - Feb 4 with 2649 viewsRyorry

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 13:39 - Feb 4 by longtimefan

“ Edit: To officially gift Preston 2 goals inside the first 10 minutes effectively cost us the game and allowed the ex-Premier League monopoly to finally take shape.”

Hope you’re not suggesting his performance was part of a conspiracy. Graham Scott is too incompetent to be any part of that

This is a referee who the PGMOL tried to demote from the Select Group of referees because they realised he wasn’t good enough. He only survived after contesting the demotion on some employment law grounds, not on refereeing ability.
[Post edited 4 Feb 14:04]


There should be a new wooden spoon reffing award named the GS (Golden Sh1t, Great Scott , Ghastly Stuff, or whatever other label anyone wants to apply).

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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 13:52 - Feb 4 with 2624 viewsHerbivore

He failed to give two very clear penalty decisions our way when we played Rotherham as well. He owes us at least three goals. Those two decisions yesterday were abysmal, hard to understand how officials at that level can get such easy decisions so hopelessly wrong.

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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 13:54 - Feb 4 with 2616 viewsEastboundSplinter

The position of Edmundson’s hand is irrelevant.

“ The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered. For the purposes of determining offside, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit.”

Where was his armpit in relation to the attacker?
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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:04 - Feb 4 with 2571 viewsVegtablue

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 13:54 - Feb 4 by EastboundSplinter

The position of Edmundson’s hand is irrelevant.

“ The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered. For the purposes of determining offside, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit.”

Where was his armpit in relation to the attacker?


Recommend watching the highlights if you haven't and missed it in real time.
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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:11 - Feb 4 with 2523 viewsEastboundSplinter

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:04 - Feb 4 by Vegtablue

Recommend watching the highlights if you haven't and missed it in real time.


I’ve seen it. The position of Edmundson’s hand is still irrelevant.
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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:18 - Feb 4 with 2482 viewsVegtablue

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:11 - Feb 4 by EastboundSplinter

I’ve seen it. The position of Edmundson’s hand is still irrelevant.


But so is nitpicking when the guy was that far offside?

Sorry don't mean to appear prickly.
[Post edited 4 Feb 14:20]
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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:24 - Feb 4 with 2447 viewsLankHenners

Yep, before the boring people kick off I'm not blaming the loss on the officials as I think we played so poorly in the first half we'd be behind at HT anyway, but it was a genuine 1/10 from them yesterday and they obviously had an impact on the final result.

Not good really that in our games and other Championship matches I've watched, most of the worst refs are those that also officiate Prem games. Wonder if there is something in them being to used to relying on VAR as a safety net that they've lost a bit of sharpness in decision making.

Obviously got to be careful not to come across as sore losers and there was plenty we did wrong ourselves to look at but did think yesterday was particularly bad that we should make a bit of a fuss about it, even just to put pressure on refs to 'even things out'. Remember we did similar last season when McKenna pointed out how ridiculous it was we didn't get any penalties despite having so many entries into the box with players getting challenged for the ball then we suddenly got a couple in the next few games.

I know every team can point at things and say the ref should've given us this and not given the opposition that but I think we've had far more poor officiating affecting us negatively than positively.

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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:27 - Feb 4 with 2411 viewsEastboundSplinter

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:24 - Feb 4 by LankHenners

Yep, before the boring people kick off I'm not blaming the loss on the officials as I think we played so poorly in the first half we'd be behind at HT anyway, but it was a genuine 1/10 from them yesterday and they obviously had an impact on the final result.

Not good really that in our games and other Championship matches I've watched, most of the worst refs are those that also officiate Prem games. Wonder if there is something in them being to used to relying on VAR as a safety net that they've lost a bit of sharpness in decision making.

Obviously got to be careful not to come across as sore losers and there was plenty we did wrong ourselves to look at but did think yesterday was particularly bad that we should make a bit of a fuss about it, even just to put pressure on refs to 'even things out'. Remember we did similar last season when McKenna pointed out how ridiculous it was we didn't get any penalties despite having so many entries into the box with players getting challenged for the ball then we suddenly got a couple in the next few games.

I know every team can point at things and say the ref should've given us this and not given the opposition that but I think we've had far more poor officiating affecting us negatively than positively.


The Prem refs in EFL does seem to be a real issue and other clubs are complaining of it too. It’s an interesting issue and one I’m sure PGMOL will be looking at. I agree with you that they seem to lack the ability to call the big/tight decisions in the absence of VAR. I’m not sure that it’ll get addressed this season though.
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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:37 - Feb 4 with 2376 viewsNthQldITFC

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 13:39 - Feb 4 by longtimefan

“ Edit: To officially gift Preston 2 goals inside the first 10 minutes effectively cost us the game and allowed the ex-Premier League monopoly to finally take shape.”

Hope you’re not suggesting his performance was part of a conspiracy. Graham Scott is too incompetent to be any part of that

This is a referee who the PGMOL tried to demote from the Select Group of referees because they realised he wasn’t good enough. He only survived after contesting the demotion on some employment law grounds, not on refereeing ability.
[Post edited 4 Feb 14:04]


The only possible response I can give to that is an Urquhartian, "You may well think that, but I could not possibly comment".

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1
I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:39 - Feb 4 with 2360 viewsNthQldITFC

And for fairness, he should definitely have awarded Preston an indirect free kick two yards form our goal line for Hladky handling a back pass, but from what I've read NOT a penalty or a red card. Not easy to score from those.

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1
I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:42 - Feb 4 with 2333 viewsEastboundSplinter

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:39 - Feb 4 by NthQldITFC

And for fairness, he should definitely have awarded Preston an indirect free kick two yards form our goal line for Hladky handling a back pass, but from what I've read NOT a penalty or a red card. Not easy to score from those.


6 yards.
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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:42 - Feb 4 with 2332 viewsNthQldITFC

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 13:54 - Feb 4 by EastboundSplinter

The position of Edmundson’s hand is irrelevant.

“ The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered. For the purposes of determining offside, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit.”

Where was his armpit in relation to the attacker?


Ah, thanks I hadn't realised that. Still the same outcome though and in fact even further offside if you subtract Fridge's arm from the equation. (The Preston player's arm was tucked in.)

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1
I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:44 - Feb 4 with 2326 viewsLankHenners

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:27 - Feb 4 by EastboundSplinter

The Prem refs in EFL does seem to be a real issue and other clubs are complaining of it too. It’s an interesting issue and one I’m sure PGMOL will be looking at. I agree with you that they seem to lack the ability to call the big/tight decisions in the absence of VAR. I’m not sure that it’ll get addressed this season though.


It's a strange one as the refs are monitored and essentially given ranking points based on their performance which can move them up or down on a league table which in turn determines the profile of match they're allowed to officiate, but Championship games are often incredibly competitive and physical where the officials have a lot to look out for and have to be really really switched on.

As such, despite there probably being more pressure on a Prem game than a mid table Champ clash, it seems almost unfair that a ref deemed not ready for a Prem game is then given a Champ match as 'punishment' where they can still perform as badly just a bit more out of the public eye.

As you say something for PGMOL to consider as the Championship shouldn't suffer because of issues with Prem refs.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
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1
I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:46 - Feb 4 with 2304 viewsNthQldITFC

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:42 - Feb 4 by EastboundSplinter

6 yards.


Again, you're closer than me - have checked and will settle for 5 yards if your client will settle! (point of the handling of the ball about a yard inside the 6 yard box when frame-by-framed)

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1
I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:48 - Feb 4 with 2289 viewsEastboundSplinter

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:46 - Feb 4 by NthQldITFC

Again, you're closer than me - have checked and will settle for 5 yards if your client will settle! (point of the handling of the ball about a yard inside the 6 yard box when frame-by-framed)


IFK awarded inside the 6 yard is always taken from the edge of the 6 yard.
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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:49 - Feb 4 with 2281 viewsNthQldITFC

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 13:54 - Feb 4 by EastboundSplinter

The position of Edmundson’s hand is irrelevant.

“ The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered. For the purposes of determining offside, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit.”

Where was his armpit in relation to the attacker?


What with the 'F' and 'R' keys being adjacent on a keyboard, the FA could originally intended that rule to read '...in line with the bottom OR the armpit.'!

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2
I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:49 - Feb 4 with 2270 viewsBent_double

Just watched the game, couldn't agree more - although we were also terrible in the first half.

Spirited fightback, if the game had gone on for another 5-10 mins I'm sure we would have got the equaliser.

Credit to PNE first half as well tho, they clearly had a game plan to stop us doing what we usually do, and they had the players to carry it out...along with help from the officials.

Won't mention the use of hands by Hladky in the 2nd half that they also missed

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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:49 - Feb 4 with 2269 viewsNthQldITFC

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:48 - Feb 4 by EastboundSplinter

IFK awarded inside the 6 yard is always taken from the edge of the 6 yard.


Oh, you're good! Thanks.

(I fell into your saucy little trap.)
[Post edited 4 Feb 14:50]

# WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE #
Poll: It's driving me nuts

1
I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:52 - Feb 4 with 2233 viewsEastboundSplinter

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:48 - Feb 4 by EastboundSplinter

IFK awarded inside the 6 yard is always taken from the edge of the 6 yard.


And FWIW the referee more than likely saw the infringement but chose to ignore it as the award of IFK often causes more confusion. Often easier to ignore it and carry on at any half decent standard of football, especially at 3-0.
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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:57 - Feb 4 with 2212 viewsPortmanteauxcurling

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:49 - Feb 4 by NthQldITFC

What with the 'F' and 'R' keys being adjacent on a keyboard, the FA could originally intended that rule to read '...in line with the bottom OR the armpit.'!


I think it was changed to '...in line with the bottom OR the armpit'. It was going to be "bottom OR elbow" but that would have meant far too many refs. would be at a disadvantage as they cannot tell the difference between the two.



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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 15:16 - Feb 4 with 2149 viewsRobTheMonk

I think the offside annoyed me more. He was so far offside that the player had a good long look at the linesman before carrying on.

It invalidates playing an offside trap.

The first goal was very unlucky once the foul had been committed.
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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 15:29 - Feb 4 with 2095 viewslongtimefan

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 15:16 - Feb 4 by RobTheMonk

I think the offside annoyed me more. He was so far offside that the player had a good long look at the linesman before carrying on.

It invalidates playing an offside trap.

The first goal was very unlucky once the foul had been committed.


My thoughts are the opposite way around. I can generally excuse an assistant getting an offside call wrong. It’s simple from a video still, far less so in real time. I’m actually surprised how many close calls assistants get right. However, the push on Morsy by Keene is just blatant. He gets nowhere near the ball and just puts two hands in the back. With the view the ref had he really should be calling that every time.
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I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 15:41 - Feb 4 with 2044 viewsArnoldMoorhen

I don't usually resort to this, but that was FKN AWFUL from the officials. on 14:18 - Feb 4 by Vegtablue

But so is nitpicking when the guy was that far offside?

Sorry don't mean to appear prickly.
[Post edited 4 Feb 14:20]


It is the part of the body which can legitimately play the ball which is closest to the goal which determines the relative positions of the two players.

So Edmundson's position is further from the goal than you are saying, as his hand and most of his arm don't count.
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