| Labour’s manifesto 09:21 - Jun 13 with 17597 views | thebooks |
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/13/rachel-reeves-reck
Basically:
- Austerity (“there’s no money left!”)
- Arm waving “growth” led by incentivising more private sector running of infrastructure and the NHS
- Some vague “we’ll be nicer to workers” platitudes
- We’ll fix more potholes
As Ipswich will go to Labour, surely that means a Greens vote for anyone who’s not right/centre right? |  | | |  |
| Labour’s manifesto on 19:36 - Jun 14 with 2397 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour’s manifesto on 18:57 - Jun 14 by Clapham_Junction |
It's a right-wing Labour vs Pro-Gaza Independent contest, so no danger of letting the Tories win. It's a seat which has previously elected Galloway so it probably is quite close, but the independent doesn't seem to be a Galloway-type extremist (he was previously a Lib Dem candidate).
The Green has no chance of winning; the vote is more to register my disgust with the current state of Labour (which I am still a member of, pretty much only to ensure I get a vote in the next leadership contest). |
that 20% lead and the prospect of forming a government must disgust many members. hopefully you'll vote for a leader that can put that right. (though supporting non-labour election candidates may well see you expelled). |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 20:09 - Jun 14 with 2342 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Labour’s manifesto on 19:36 - Jun 14 by lowhouseblue |
that 20% lead and the prospect of forming a government must disgust many members. hopefully you'll vote for a leader that can put that right. (though supporting non-labour election candidates may well see you expelled). |
I'm disgusted by a leader who lied to members to get elected and who has since shown open contempt for many of the people that voted for him (going as far as to tell them they can leave the party they don't like it). I'm also disgusted by a party hierarchy that has actively persecuted people on the left of the party (not to mention working against it in the last two elections).
While a Starmer government would of course be an improvement on the current shower, it isn't going to deliver the change the country needs (or at least, has given no indication it will). And in the long-run, that pushes people to alternatives, which at the next election may well be Farage. [Post edited 14 Jun 2024 20:10]
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| Labour’s manifesto on 20:19 - Jun 14 with 2307 views | Ryorry |
| Labour’s manifesto on 20:09 - Jun 14 by Clapham_Junction |
I'm disgusted by a leader who lied to members to get elected and who has since shown open contempt for many of the people that voted for him (going as far as to tell them they can leave the party they don't like it). I'm also disgusted by a party hierarchy that has actively persecuted people on the left of the party (not to mention working against it in the last two elections).
While a Starmer government would of course be an improvement on the current shower, it isn't going to deliver the change the country needs (or at least, has given no indication it will). And in the long-run, that pushes people to alternatives, which at the next election may well be Farage. [Post edited 14 Jun 2024 20:10]
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I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a behind closed doors strategy to get Labour in via Starmer, then for him to stand down after a year or so to make way for a more go-getting leader. Wish Burnham would stand, he’s just what Labour needs, most members would get behind him I think, and he could unite the party - which is very, very badly needed. |  |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 20:20 - Jun 14 with 2304 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour’s manifesto on 20:09 - Jun 14 by Clapham_Junction |
I'm disgusted by a leader who lied to members to get elected and who has since shown open contempt for many of the people that voted for him (going as far as to tell them they can leave the party they don't like it). I'm also disgusted by a party hierarchy that has actively persecuted people on the left of the party (not to mention working against it in the last two elections).
While a Starmer government would of course be an improvement on the current shower, it isn't going to deliver the change the country needs (or at least, has given no indication it will). And in the long-run, that pushes people to alternatives, which at the next election may well be Farage. [Post edited 14 Jun 2024 20:10]
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if you're disgusted by a party which is electable that's probably the point to transfer to one of the many unelectable alternatives. disgust is a reason to go, and waiting to elect the next corbyn is not a reason to stay. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 20:30 - Jun 14 with 2272 views | J2BLUE |
| Labour’s manifesto on 20:19 - Jun 14 by Ryorry |
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a behind closed doors strategy to get Labour in via Starmer, then for him to stand down after a year or so to make way for a more go-getting leader. Wish Burnham would stand, he’s just what Labour needs, most members would get behind him I think, and he could unite the party - which is very, very badly needed. |
I think we can rule that out based on what we've seen.
I think Starmer is going to be better than many people think.
Sunak is Marcus Evans. Starmer might not be Gamechanger but he can't be any worse than Sunak. |  |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 20:32 - Jun 14 with 2261 views | Ryorry |
| Labour’s manifesto on 20:30 - Jun 14 by J2BLUE |
I think we can rule that out based on what we've seen.
I think Starmer is going to be better than many people think.
Sunak is Marcus Evans. Starmer might not be Gamechanger but he can't be any worse than Sunak. |
Hope your second paragraph is correct! | |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 20:33 - Jun 14 with 2255 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour’s manifesto on 20:19 - Jun 14 by Ryorry |
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a behind closed doors strategy to get Labour in via Starmer, then for him to stand down after a year or so to make way for a more go-getting leader. Wish Burnham would stand, he’s just what Labour needs, most members would get behind him I think, and he could unite the party - which is very, very badly needed. |
Yeah. The bloke's going to reverse an 80 seat Tory majority, clean out the cranks and the racists from his party, make them electable and win the next election with an absolute landslide then just walk away a year later. |  |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 20:39 - Jun 14 with 2244 views | Ryorry |
| Labour’s manifesto on 20:33 - Jun 14 by GlasgowBlue |
Yeah. The bloke's going to reverse an 80 seat Tory majority, clean out the cranks and the racists from his party, make them electable and win the next election with an absolute landslide then just walk away a year later. |
Neither you nor anyone else knows. Feel free to bookmark it so you can scoff in a couple of years time if my idle speculation turns out to be hilariously wrong :) | |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 20:40 - Jun 14 with 2237 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Labour’s manifesto on 20:20 - Jun 14 by lowhouseblue |
if you're disgusted by a party which is electable that's probably the point to transfer to one of the many unelectable alternatives. disgust is a reason to go, and waiting to elect the next corbyn is not a reason to stay. |
I'm not sure what the issue with being disgusted by an 'electable' party is. I was disgusted by the party that won the last four general elections (who were obviously electable given they won them). | | | |
| Labour’s manifesto on 20:45 - Jun 14 with 2219 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Labour’s manifesto on 20:19 - Jun 14 by Ryorry |
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a behind closed doors strategy to get Labour in via Starmer, then for him to stand down after a year or so to make way for a more go-getting leader. Wish Burnham would stand, he’s just what Labour needs, most members would get behind him I think, and he could unite the party - which is very, very badly needed. |
No chance sadly. And I think one reason (possibly the main reason) they've been rigging the candidate selection is to make sure there aren't enough votes in the PLP to get a left-wing candidate onto the ballot for the next leadership election...
Agree about Burnham, although my choice would be Clive Lewis. [Post edited 14 Jun 2024 20:46]
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| Labour’s manifesto on 20:52 - Jun 14 with 2178 views | J2BLUE |
| Labour’s manifesto on 20:20 - Jun 14 by lowhouseblue |
if you're disgusted by a party which is electable that's probably the point to transfer to one of the many unelectable alternatives. disgust is a reason to go, and waiting to elect the next corbyn is not a reason to stay. |
At the risk of offending quite a lot of people I think there's many on here happy to be anti Labour and proudly announce they are voting green/other safe in the knowledge Labour will win anyway.
Then they can all pat each other on the back and feel superior. | |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 20:58 - Jun 14 with 2147 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour’s manifesto on 20:40 - Jun 14 by Clapham_Junction |
I'm not sure what the issue with being disgusted by an 'electable' party is. I was disgusted by the party that won the last four general elections (who were obviously electable given they won them). |
but were you a member of the party that won the last four general elections? when you don't like the party you're a member of being electable it's probably a sign. [Post edited 14 Jun 2024 21:04]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 21:05 - Jun 14 with 2107 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Labour’s manifesto on 20:52 - Jun 14 by J2BLUE |
At the risk of offending quite a lot of people I think there's many on here happy to be anti Labour and proudly announce they are voting green/other safe in the knowledge Labour will win anyway.
Then they can all pat each other on the back and feel superior. |
I don't think it's offensive, just unnecessarily patronising to say people are voting the way they are to 'feel superior'.
I would vote Labour if it was a close contest with a Tory candidate. The most important thing (as I've said at every election) is to get the Tories out. However, because I live in an area the Tories will never win, I have the luxury of voting with my conscience.
(this of course reflects the fact that one of the major issues with our politics is the sh1t electoral system) | | | |
| Labour’s manifesto on 21:10 - Jun 14 with 2067 views | thebooks |
| Labour’s manifesto on 20:45 - Jun 14 by Clapham_Junction |
No chance sadly. And I think one reason (possibly the main reason) they've been rigging the candidate selection is to make sure there aren't enough votes in the PLP to get a left-wing candidate onto the ballot for the next leadership election...
Agree about Burnham, although my choice would be Clive Lewis. [Post edited 14 Jun 2024 20:46]
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Indeed. The PLP is sewn up, and even the CLPs are looking pretty done. It certainly is here in Ipswich. A lot of people (racist cranks, apparently - there are some real charmers on here) have left, so well done for staying. I gave up a year or so ago; as it stands, there's no way to influence the party's path.
Clive's done well to hang on in there. I wouldn't be surprised if the current regime changes the rules for electing a new leader, cementing the Labour party as a technocratic, managerialist concern. Bit depressing, really.
I guess there could be another grassroots thing in the future. Politics can change quickly. | | | |
| Labour’s manifesto on 21:52 - Jun 14 with 1991 views | Ryorry |
| Labour’s manifesto on 20:45 - Jun 14 by Clapham_Junction |
No chance sadly. And I think one reason (possibly the main reason) they've been rigging the candidate selection is to make sure there aren't enough votes in the PLP to get a left-wing candidate onto the ballot for the next leadership election...
Agree about Burnham, although my choice would be Clive Lewis. [Post edited 14 Jun 2024 20:46]
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My reasoning was based on getting the impression that KS isn't enjoying leadership at all - his style just isn't suited to public speaking/debates*, he's ineffective when trying to think on his feet; & he probably recognises that. I think he has the integrity to hand over if he feels he isn't doing the best job.
I may well be totally wrong obviously 
*Edit - I meant the cut and thrust of live political debate, heckling, being interrupted etc. (as in the first TV debate). [Post edited 14 Jun 2024 22:10]
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| Labour’s manifesto on 22:08 - Jun 14 with 1929 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour’s manifesto on 22:00 - Jun 14 by Blueschev |
Integrity? He’s a compulsive liar. Some people seem to want to ignore this because he’s not the Tories. This is the most depressing election in living memory. There is literally no alternative on offer. |
well vote for galloway then (or whoever he's put up for you). you'll feel edgy and no one else will care. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 22:11 - Jun 14 with 1923 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour’s manifesto on 22:00 - Jun 14 by Blueschev |
Integrity? He’s a compulsive liar. Some people seem to want to ignore this because he’s not the Tories. This is the most depressing election in living memory. There is literally no alternative on offer. |
More depressing than 2019? When it was a choice between Boris Johnson's Tories and Labour lead by Corbyn? | |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 22:15 - Jun 14 with 1912 views | Blueschev |
| Labour’s manifesto on 22:08 - Jun 14 by lowhouseblue |
well vote for galloway then (or whoever he's put up for you). you'll feel edgy and no one else will care. |
I despise Galloway, what does he have to do with anything? |  | | |
| Labour’s manifesto on 22:21 - Jun 14 with 1884 views | J2BLUE |
| Labour’s manifesto on 22:00 - Jun 14 by Blueschev |
Integrity? He’s a compulsive liar. Some people seem to want to ignore this because he’s not the Tories. This is the most depressing election in living memory. There is literally no alternative on offer. |
Would you consider voting reform?
If they get lots of votes and few seats then Farage will be relentless targeting PR. | |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 22:23 - Jun 14 with 1876 views | Blueschev |
| Labour’s manifesto on 22:11 - Jun 14 by GlasgowBlue |
More depressing than 2019? When it was a choice between Boris Johnson's Tories and Labour lead by Corbyn? |
The way I see it yes. If Labour win with a large majority and very little changes it will lead to further public distrust of politicians and see increased support to the likes of Farage, who may well be a leading political figure by 2029. You’ll no doubt rejoice in the death of the left, but the void will be filled by an emboldened far right. | | | |
| Labour’s manifesto on 22:23 - Jun 14 with 1874 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour’s manifesto on 22:08 - Jun 14 by lowhouseblue |
well vote for galloway then (or whoever he's put up for you). you'll feel edgy and no one else will care. |
In fairness Blueschev's politics are nothing like Galloway's and I'm sure I've seen him be vocally against him on here. [Post edited 14 Jun 2024 22:23]
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| Labour’s manifesto on 22:24 - Jun 14 with 1868 views | Blueschev |
| Labour’s manifesto on 22:21 - Jun 14 by J2BLUE |
Would you consider voting reform?
If they get lots of votes and few seats then Farage will be relentless targeting PR. |
Is that a serious question? | | | |
| Labour’s manifesto on 22:33 - Jun 14 with 1846 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour’s manifesto on 22:23 - Jun 14 by GlasgowBlue |
In fairness Blueschev's politics are nothing like Galloway's and I'm sure I've seen him be vocally against him on here. [Post edited 14 Jun 2024 22:23]
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well i don't know who he would actually support. it all seems pretty niche so as to exclude 99.9% of anyone who might actually vote. the never ending search for a far left unicorn. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 22:35 - Jun 14 with 1825 views | J2BLUE |
| Labour’s manifesto on 22:24 - Jun 14 by Blueschev |
Is that a serious question? |
More for my own amusement really. | |
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