| Labour’s manifesto 09:21 - Jun 13 with 17596 views | thebooks |
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/13/rachel-reeves-reck
Basically:
- Austerity (“there’s no money left!”)
- Arm waving “growth” led by incentivising more private sector running of infrastructure and the NHS
- Some vague “we’ll be nicer to workers” platitudes
- We’ll fix more potholes
As Ipswich will go to Labour, surely that means a Greens vote for anyone who’s not right/centre right? |  | | |  |
| Labour’s manifesto on 09:03 - Jun 15 with 1459 views | bluejacko |
How is the promises on the NHS going to work?
“The NHS is on its knees” is the cry ,and yet those overworked nurses and doctors are now being. told they will have to work overtime at weekends to bring the lists down.
Streeting has said the doctors will not get a 35% pay rise so unless their strikes are political he faces more of the same.
Dentists are going private like no tomorrow yet the promise is 100,000 free kids check ups,who is going to do those?
6500 extra teachers for 23,000 schools doesn’t really do a lot does it?
Free breakfasts at school,when asked the person who will have to do this couldn’t even say how many would be needed so how can that be a costed policy? Will schools have to have a kitchen and staff or outside catering bringing in say300 meals one for every child because that will be the requirement yet the take up is 200 you can see where a lot of money is going to be wasted!
The above is not a moan just asking the question 👍 |  | | |
| Labour’s manifesto on 09:12 - Jun 15 with 1448 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Labour’s manifesto on 09:03 - Jun 15 by bluejacko |
How is the promises on the NHS going to work?
“The NHS is on its knees” is the cry ,and yet those overworked nurses and doctors are now being. told they will have to work overtime at weekends to bring the lists down.
Streeting has said the doctors will not get a 35% pay rise so unless their strikes are political he faces more of the same.
Dentists are going private like no tomorrow yet the promise is 100,000 free kids check ups,who is going to do those?
6500 extra teachers for 23,000 schools doesn’t really do a lot does it?
Free breakfasts at school,when asked the person who will have to do this couldn’t even say how many would be needed so how can that be a costed policy? Will schools have to have a kitchen and staff or outside catering bringing in say300 meals one for every child because that will be the requirement yet the take up is 200 you can see where a lot of money is going to be wasted!
The above is not a moan just asking the question 👍 |
It will all take money.
There will be grown up negotiations about pay. Which havent happened to date. Doctors wont insist on 35%. That is typically dishonest from he government. "oh they want 35% and that wont happen, so we wont egage". | | | |
| Labour’s manifesto on 10:09 - Jun 15 with 1392 views | bluejacko |
| Labour’s manifesto on 09:12 - Jun 15 by redrickstuhaart |
It will all take money.
There will be grown up negotiations about pay. Which havent happened to date. Doctors wont insist on 35%. That is typically dishonest from he government. "oh they want 35% and that wont happen, so we wont egage". |
Every interview with the doctors union rep he has stated the 35% figure!
It will take money doesn’t really answer any questions does it?(there isn’t any) | | | |
| Labour’s manifesto on 10:29 - Jun 15 with 1352 views | Herbivore |
| Labour’s manifesto on 20:58 - Jun 14 by lowhouseblue |
but were you a member of the party that won the last four general elections? when you don't like the party you're a member of being electable it's probably a sign. [Post edited 14 Jun 2024 21:04]
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You're being incredibly disingenuous. It's not the electability of Labour that Clapham finds disgusting and you know that, yet you are continuing to frame it that way anyway. It's a shame you consistently have to debate with such intellectual and moral dishonesty when it comes to politics. |  |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 10:34 - Jun 15 with 1346 views | Herbivore |
| Labour’s manifesto on 21:05 - Jun 14 by Clapham_Junction |
I don't think it's offensive, just unnecessarily patronising to say people are voting the way they are to 'feel superior'.
I would vote Labour if it was a close contest with a Tory candidate. The most important thing (as I've said at every election) is to get the Tories out. However, because I live in an area the Tories will never win, I have the luxury of voting with my conscience.
(this of course reflects the fact that one of the major issues with our politics is the sh1t electoral system) |
It's the classic attitude on here that if you hold strong political views then it's performative and you only hold them to score online points. Some people struggle with the idea that others are more invested in politics and have stronger political views than they do. | |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 10:38 - Jun 15 with 1343 views | Herbivore |
| Labour’s manifesto on 22:08 - Jun 14 by lowhouseblue |
well vote for galloway then (or whoever he's put up for you). you'll feel edgy and no one else will care. |
And there you go again. Absolutely toxic. | |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 10:40 - Jun 15 with 1337 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Labour’s manifesto on 10:09 - Jun 15 by bluejacko |
Every interview with the doctors union rep he has stated the 35% figure!
It will take money doesn’t really answer any questions does it?(there isn’t any) |
Its as if people wilfully don't understand negotiation.
Which is what the government have done in order to avoid engagement. | | | |
| Labour’s manifesto on 10:42 - Jun 15 with 1326 views | Herbivore |
| Labour’s manifesto on 23:55 - Jun 14 by Ryorry |
Labour aren’t “aping” the Tories; but in answer to your question - the ability to achieve at least modest change, as opposed to no change at all via your method. |
Economically, their manifesto could have been written by the Tories. | |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 10:44 - Jun 15 with 1306 views | DJR |
| Labour’s manifesto on 10:42 - Jun 15 by Herbivore |
Economically, their manifesto could have been written by the Tories. |
Tom Swarbrick on LBC, who worked for Theresa May (the best of a bad bunch), said he thought it was a manifesto she could have written. [Post edited 15 Jun 2024 10:49]
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| Labour’s manifesto on 10:55 - Jun 15 with 1259 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Labour’s manifesto on 01:00 - Jun 15 by Blueschev |
I’d argue that that attitude, particularly from those of us who are politically engaged, is the reason there will be little or no change, at a time that we need significant change. As for aping the Tories, look at their “fiscal rules”, it ensures almost nothing will change. |
That may be right. But it is also reality. And reality is what we have to work with.
Half the reason that Corbyn was so obviously a poor candidate to many of us was that he was utterly incapable of a pragmatic position that would work. | | | |
| Labour’s manifesto on 11:04 - Jun 15 with 1238 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour’s manifesto on 10:42 - Jun 15 by Herbivore |
Economically, their manifesto could have been written by the Tories. |
not by the liz truss tories though. it's funny how that particular tory failure seems to be considered inconvenient. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 11:12 - Jun 15 with 1209 views | Herbivore |
| Labour’s manifesto on 11:04 - Jun 15 by lowhouseblue |
not by the liz truss tories though. it's funny how that particular tory failure seems to be considered inconvenient. |
It was very inconvenient for those of us with a mortgage. She isn't leading the Tories into the election as far as I'm aware so whilst the damage she did still has an impact, she's not had any input into the Tory manifesto going into this election. | |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 11:18 - Jun 15 with 1187 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour’s manifesto on 11:12 - Jun 15 by Herbivore |
It was very inconvenient for those of us with a mortgage. She isn't leading the Tories into the election as far as I'm aware so whilst the damage she did still has an impact, she's not had any input into the Tory manifesto going into this election. |
but economically the labour manifesto has avoided unfunded spending and the disastrous example set the liz truss tories. that's a very good thing. the same isn't true of the greens or labour's 2019 manifesto. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 11:22 - Jun 15 with 1164 views | Herbivore |
| Labour’s manifesto on 11:18 - Jun 15 by lowhouseblue |
but economically the labour manifesto has avoided unfunded spending and the disastrous example set the liz truss tories. that's a very good thing. the same isn't true of the greens or labour's 2019 manifesto. |
Yeah, I agree Labour aren't really planning on doing anything. | |
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| Labour’s manifesto on 12:53 - Jun 15 with 1100 views | DJR |
| Labour’s manifesto on 11:18 - Jun 15 by lowhouseblue |
but economically the labour manifesto has avoided unfunded spending and the disastrous example set the liz truss tories. that's a very good thing. the same isn't true of the greens or labour's 2019 manifesto. |
But with such a lead in the opinion polls, Labour could have been more bold on tax, and that would have been ever better.
To take one example, adjusting the council tax system so that a £150 million flat in Westminster pays more council tax than a band D house in Ipswich could have raised a tidy sum. And council tax can't be avoided by moving a property out of the country. [Post edited 15 Jun 2024 13:00]
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| Labour’s manifesto on 15:00 - Jun 15 with 1028 views | DJR |
Fascinating article which draws on analysis of the wording in the Labour manifesto.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/15/policy-keir-starme
So how else to analyse where the next prime minister will take the UK? One expert to ask is Kevin Farnsworth, a professor of social and public policy at the University of York.
Rather than cherrypick policies and pledges, which is the normal business of political commentary, Farnsworth does big-data analysis. He feeds an entire manifesto into a computer, and codes and categorises terms, phrases, patterns: the meanings and sentiments, how often they appear and the contexts in which they’re used. Drawing on the decades-long research of political scientists at the award-winning Manifesto Project, based in Berlin, he gauges where the language is located on the political spectrum: “nationalisation” is more leftwing, say, while “national way of life” is more rightwing.
Analysing Labour and Conservative manifestos going back to 1945, he can illustrate how party ideologies have changed over decades, showing when they are fairly close together – Theresa May’s platform of 2017 was, he judges, “easily the most leftwing Tory offering of modern times” – and also when they are miles apart. Over the past few days, he has been subjecting the latest manifestos to this statistical analysis, shared exclusively with the Guardian. Many of his findings are strikingly different to what you’ll hear and read from Westminster.
In the pantheon of Labour leaders, Starmer has made clear who he is not: Jeremy Corbyn, who represents “the dead end of gesture politics”. His great inspiration, he has said, is Harold Wilson.
Farnsworth compared Starmer’s manifesto with Corbyn’s in 2017 and 2019, Wilson’s in 1964 and Clement Attlee’s of 1945. His first finding is that Starmer’s manifesto, in language and values, is way out of line with Labour tradition. Whether on state schools or universities, progressive taxation or pensioners, Corbyn was the heir to Wilson and Attlee. Where Corbyn’s manifestos are unusual in Labour history is in their emphasis on inequality – which is attacked with more frequency and force than in those of other Labour leaders. But Starmer’s manifesto is the complete opposite: it mentions the word inequality only once.
On Farnsworth’s analysis, Starmer’s platform in 2024 is closer to the Tory Ted Heath’s in 1974 than it is to almost any Labour manifesto. Perhaps that should come as no surprise, given that Starmer’s team mentions poverty only 14 times in 130-odd pages, while “business”, by my count, gets about 60 mentions. So what, you may say: get the Tories out first, and then trust Labour to do the right thing. But if you want a well-funded NHS and a decent social security net, you need a big party to argue for them.
Ideologies change with time, and they react against each other. Leaders can pull their rivals towards them or hold them in check. “A boldly leftwing or rightwing party shifts our views of what is politically acceptable,” says Farnsworth. After the banking crash of 2008, it was no surprise that Gordon Brown veered left in 2010 and Ed Miliband went further still in 2015. But, he notes, the Tories belatedly adopted the same language. From 2015 on, they promised to invest, to level up, to build 40 more hospitals. It wasn’t just Brexit or Grenfell that prompted that change of heart in May and Boris Johnson; Farnsworth says it was also the radicalism of Corbyn. “Without a strong leftwing party, politics drifts to the right.”
That may be the great missed opportunity of this moment: that the public is ready for change of a kind that is simply not on offer. That a political system prizes continuity and stability over reform and fairness. That a Labour leader should boast of how much he has changed his party, so that it will not change the country. | | | |
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