| It's official labour majority (n/t) 05:00 - Jul 5 with 3936 views | GeoffSentence |
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| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 12:28 - Jul 5 with 1439 views | mellowblue |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 09:48 - Jul 5 by Pencilpete |
I think some perspective needs to be put on this - essentially Labours vote is pretty much the same as 2019, they haven't actually done anything (and haven't needed to) to win Reform have helped by splitting the Tory vote and some tactical voting has got Liberals elected in other seats .....
I don't get all the people say how great Starmer has done and what a great campaign he's run - hes actually run a p1ss poor campaign in my opinion and i, like many others voted for him because there literally wasn't anyone else, yeah he should be happy he's won but lets be honest the conservatives were so bad Labour could have had Gary Glitter as leader and won last night - the hard work starts now to prove all us voters who have taken a leap of faith in him that he deserved it. |
I disagree. In footballing terms, Starmer showed good game management, 2-.0 up 20 minutes to go keep it ight, make no mistakes, see the game out. Pretty much what he has done. Safe and unispirational and teer away from controversy. Got the job done. |  | | |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 12:41 - Jul 5 with 1435 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 12:10 - Jul 5 by Trequartista |
With fewer votes!
I'm not disputing a defeat is a defeat and a win is a win, but it makes you think about the oddities of FPTP |
That's largely because of Reform and tactical voting to get rid of the Tories. If Reform didn't exist a lot of those votes would've gone to Labour and their share would be higher.
The Tories have successfully manipulated FPTP since forever, so tough luck basically. Hoisted by their own petard! |  |
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| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 12:45 - Jul 5 with 1431 views | Trequartista |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 12:41 - Jul 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
That's largely because of Reform and tactical voting to get rid of the Tories. If Reform didn't exist a lot of those votes would've gone to Labour and their share would be higher.
The Tories have successfully manipulated FPTP since forever, so tough luck basically. Hoisted by their own petard! |
Tactical voting is another argument against FPTP. It exists because your vote is otherwise wasted, something that wouldn't be the case under PR.
Absolutely crazy that Corbyn's 10.2m votes in 2019 was the biggest defeat for Labour in decades, and Starmer's 9.6m votes in 2024 (with 2 to declare) is the biggest win for Labour in decades. [Post edited 5 Jul 2024 12:46]
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| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 12:48 - Jul 5 with 1410 views | giant_stow |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 12:45 - Jul 5 by Trequartista |
Tactical voting is another argument against FPTP. It exists because your vote is otherwise wasted, something that wouldn't be the case under PR.
Absolutely crazy that Corbyn's 10.2m votes in 2019 was the biggest defeat for Labour in decades, and Starmer's 9.6m votes in 2024 (with 2 to declare) is the biggest win for Labour in decades. [Post edited 5 Jul 2024 12:46]
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Its only crazy if you ignore what the non-big two parties did innit?
I honestly don't understand comparing vote tallies across elections - seems to say nothing about the circumstances of each individual election. |  |
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| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 12:55 - Jul 5 with 1373 views | Trequartista |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 12:48 - Jul 5 by giant_stow |
Its only crazy if you ignore what the non-big two parties did innit?
I honestly don't understand comparing vote tallies across elections - seems to say nothing about the circumstances of each individual election. |
Again I'm not disputing that Corbyn did better - he most certainly didn't. I'd rather score 1 goal in a match and win it 1-0 than score 2 and lose it 2-3.
Just examining the deficiencies of FPTP. | |
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| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 13:33 - Jul 5 with 1344 views | Pencilpete |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 12:22 - Jul 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You've essentially just repeated yourself so there's not much more I can add, other than whether his majority falls away or increases depends entirely on what happens in the next 5 years. NOW is when the work starts. They'll be judged on results (or at least direction of movement).
"I've been carrying this vase around, I'm not going to start juggling it now" some commentator just said Starmer said to him.
It's not like Mick because he didn't win anything. It's more like McKenna turning round a mid table League 1 team, getting them promoted and then you saying, "yeah but we didn't win the title." Who cares? Onwards and upwards. There's nothing hollow about it.
Another point - if Reform didn't exist their votes wouldn't automatically go to the Tories.
"Not quite I what I wanted" would've been a fair opinion. "Pi55 poor" is clearly nonsense. |
I suppose it depends what your standards are - i'd consider standing still and not gaining any ground in terms of % of the vote when the Tories are in that much of a shambles as pi55 poor - you may not and i respect that.
"i don't agree" would be a fair reply - it isn't "clearly nonsense" - again, my idea of nonsense is to say Nigel Farage would make a great Prime Minister, not Starmer has run a piss poor campaign because he hasn't convinced more people to vote for him
Starmer hasn't picked up a mid table team and got them promoted, he's got a mid table team and kept them mid table and won promotion because all the other teams had points deducted !! | | | |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 13:44 - Jul 5 with 1321 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 12:45 - Jul 5 by Trequartista |
Tactical voting is another argument against FPTP. It exists because your vote is otherwise wasted, something that wouldn't be the case under PR.
Absolutely crazy that Corbyn's 10.2m votes in 2019 was the biggest defeat for Labour in decades, and Starmer's 9.6m votes in 2024 (with 2 to declare) is the biggest win for Labour in decades. [Post edited 5 Jul 2024 12:46]
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That is bonkers. I'm not defending FPTP... just that it's funny how some bleat about it now when the Tories have benefitted from it for so long. It's been kept by them, everyone knew the rules, it's certainly not Labour's fault given they've been battling against it all this time.
If the people tactically vote, great. That's the people speaking. | |
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| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 13:44 - Jul 5 with 1320 views | itfcjoe |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 12:48 - Jul 5 by giant_stow |
Its only crazy if you ignore what the non-big two parties did innit?
I honestly don't understand comparing vote tallies across elections - seems to say nothing about the circumstances of each individual election. |
You play the game to the rules of the contest, and are judged by them - not by whatever measure people think it should be.
Labour couldn't ever win by just piling votes up in cities with universities so have sacrificed some of them to spread them more evenly throughout the electorate to where they were required to get what they needed |  |
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| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 13:56 - Jul 5 with 1311 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 13:33 - Jul 5 by Pencilpete |
I suppose it depends what your standards are - i'd consider standing still and not gaining any ground in terms of % of the vote when the Tories are in that much of a shambles as pi55 poor - you may not and i respect that.
"i don't agree" would be a fair reply - it isn't "clearly nonsense" - again, my idea of nonsense is to say Nigel Farage would make a great Prime Minister, not Starmer has run a piss poor campaign because he hasn't convinced more people to vote for him
Starmer hasn't picked up a mid table team and got them promoted, he's got a mid table team and kept them mid table and won promotion because all the other teams had points deducted !! |
The standards are: Labour was slaughtered in the last election, their job was to get back into contention and then, ultimately, win.
Job massively, massively, done.
You keep ignoring the context: Starmer would've been foolish to try anything else. You don't try fancy stepovers when all you need to do is tap it into the empty net.
You might not like it but the boy Starmer played a blinder! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 13:59 - Jul 5 with 1303 views | unbelievablue |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 13:56 - Jul 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The standards are: Labour was slaughtered in the last election, their job was to get back into contention and then, ultimately, win.
Job massively, massively, done.
You keep ignoring the context: Starmer would've been foolish to try anything else. You don't try fancy stepovers when all you need to do is tap it into the empty net.
You might not like it but the boy Starmer played a blinder! |
Key bit is 'empty net'. Was both a lacklustre and clever campaign simultaneously ultimately. |  |
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| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 14:06 - Jul 5 with 1290 views | Pencilpete |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 13:56 - Jul 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The standards are: Labour was slaughtered in the last election, their job was to get back into contention and then, ultimately, win.
Job massively, massively, done.
You keep ignoring the context: Starmer would've been foolish to try anything else. You don't try fancy stepovers when all you need to do is tap it into the empty net.
You might not like it but the boy Starmer played a blinder! |
I voted for Starmer so i'm not disapointed he won i just don't think his campaign was very good and i voted for him mainly due to the lack of a credible alternative and i'm pretty sure thats the case for alot of others so while he has a massive majority it's still relatively fragile to defend in 5 years time.
Imagine the scenario that Suella Braverman wins the Tory leadership and merges them with Reform which is not entirely fantasy talk ..... suddenly "Conform" would be more popular with the electorate that the recently elected government! | | | |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 14:36 - Jul 5 with 1247 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 14:06 - Jul 5 by Pencilpete |
I voted for Starmer so i'm not disapointed he won i just don't think his campaign was very good and i voted for him mainly due to the lack of a credible alternative and i'm pretty sure thats the case for alot of others so while he has a massive majority it's still relatively fragile to defend in 5 years time.
Imagine the scenario that Suella Braverman wins the Tory leadership and merges them with Reform which is not entirely fantasy talk ..... suddenly "Conform" would be more popular with the electorate that the recently elected government! |
You said it was 'pi55 poor', now you're saying "not very good." You're shifting!
It's not a fragile majority, it's a landslide. It could hardly have been better.
How they do in 5 years time will largely depend on what they do between now and then, this election won't have much to do with it. I certainly can't see the nation rallying around Cruella de Vil, regardless. | |
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| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 16:16 - Jul 5 with 1197 views | Pencilpete |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 14:36 - Jul 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You said it was 'pi55 poor', now you're saying "not very good." You're shifting!
It's not a fragile majority, it's a landslide. It could hardly have been better.
How they do in 5 years time will largely depend on what they do between now and then, this election won't have much to do with it. I certainly can't see the nation rallying around Cruella de Vil, regardless. |
I'm not a politician - they are one of the same thing to me !
Yeah it's a landslide in terms of seats absolutely 100% agreed but not in terms of votes - it will be much easier to overturn than say, Blairs similar majority in 1997 because Blair ruined the Tories head to head, he didn't win with a lower of number of votes than the previous failed campaign because the Tory support was split - if Starmer doesn't get it right then that majority could easily be reversed in 2029 thats all i'm saying and if it is he'll wish he hadn't run a safe, boring, Big Mick, 0-0 draw, don't take risks (P1ss Poor / not very good) campaign because he might have achieved a Blair style victory if he'd been more ambitious because the Tories were there for the taking to an ever greater extent and he could have wiped them out - they'll probably be relieved to get 120 seats because for a long time it looked like being 60-70 and Starmer didn't finish them off | | | |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 18:29 - Jul 5 with 1149 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 16:16 - Jul 5 by Pencilpete |
I'm not a politician - they are one of the same thing to me !
Yeah it's a landslide in terms of seats absolutely 100% agreed but not in terms of votes - it will be much easier to overturn than say, Blairs similar majority in 1997 because Blair ruined the Tories head to head, he didn't win with a lower of number of votes than the previous failed campaign because the Tory support was split - if Starmer doesn't get it right then that majority could easily be reversed in 2029 thats all i'm saying and if it is he'll wish he hadn't run a safe, boring, Big Mick, 0-0 draw, don't take risks (P1ss Poor / not very good) campaign because he might have achieved a Blair style victory if he'd been more ambitious because the Tories were there for the taking to an ever greater extent and he could have wiped them out - they'll probably be relieved to get 120 seats because for a long time it looked like being 60-70 and Starmer didn't finish them off |
You're not really taking in anything I'm saying.
"if he'd been more ambitious" - I've explained why he wasn't and how that could've backfired.
If he loses the majority at the next election it'll be what they did between now and then. Everyone will have forgotten this election campaign by then. If they do a half decent job they could smash the Tories even further (with actions rather than words).
They spread their attack to get more seats rather than concentrate in red areas to get more votes - as that would've been pointless.
Labour (particularly from their starting point after the last election) have played a fantastic campaign. Wanting more is moon-on-a-stick territory (or trying to belittle the achievement because you're not a Labour supporter). | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 19:09 - Jul 5 with 1131 views | Pencilpete |
| It's official labour majority (n/t) on 18:29 - Jul 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You're not really taking in anything I'm saying.
"if he'd been more ambitious" - I've explained why he wasn't and how that could've backfired.
If he loses the majority at the next election it'll be what they did between now and then. Everyone will have forgotten this election campaign by then. If they do a half decent job they could smash the Tories even further (with actions rather than words).
They spread their attack to get more seats rather than concentrate in red areas to get more votes - as that would've been pointless.
Labour (particularly from their starting point after the last election) have played a fantastic campaign. Wanting more is moon-on-a-stick territory (or trying to belittle the achievement because you're not a Labour supporter). |
I’ve openly admitted I’m not a labour supporter but I did vote for them yesterday
I suppose for people that are Labour supporters it’s a fantastic achievement but I just felt underwhelmed but it, I said on several threads going back weeks I wanted Starmer to give me something, to inspire me and I just didn’t get it and I ended up voting for him because I didn’t want the Tories and going back to 1997 when I was first old enough to vote I’ve usually found a positive in who I’ve voted for, you look at Blair he was fresh and new and exciting and sold us a vision of how much better things can be and compare that to Starmer in this campaign it’s chalk and cheese isn’t it ?? | | | |
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