| Kemi or Suella? 09:33 - Jul 5 with 10436 views | DJR |
With the demise of Mordaunt, I think the next leader of the Tory party will be Badenoch or Braverman, especially given the make-up of the membership (assuming the membership is allowed a vote).
Whilst this may help in the fight against Farage, I am not not sure a drift to the right is a winning formula.
On the other hand, if Labour do screw it up, who knows what might happen? |  | | |  |
| Kemi or Suella? on 09:38 - Jul 5 with 4484 views | Guthrum |
In many of the sample of declared seats I saw before going to bed, Con + Ref still wouldn't have beaten Lab.
The wail about not having gone hard enough to the right is undermined by the fact parties to the left of Reform actually picked up all the seats and Labour won the election. Rather suggests that simply being Reform wouldn't have saved the Conservatives. |  |
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| Kemi or Suella? on 09:40 - Jul 5 with 4465 views | Keno |
| Kemi or Suella? on 09:38 - Jul 5 by Guthrum |
In many of the sample of declared seats I saw before going to bed, Con + Ref still wouldn't have beaten Lab.
The wail about not having gone hard enough to the right is undermined by the fact parties to the left of Reform actually picked up all the seats and Labour won the election. Rather suggests that simply being Reform wouldn't have saved the Conservatives. |
The guy who was the Yarmouth MP has just made the point that moving the right isnt the answer they need to look why they lost seats to the Lib Dems and learn from that |  |
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| Kemi or Suella? on 09:56 - Jul 5 with 4358 views | GavTWTD |
What other choices do they have? Hunt? |  |
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| Kemi or Suella? on 10:02 - Jul 5 with 4340 views | wkj |
From what I am seeing, cut you losses and stop trying to be reform. The far right have their party now, the conservatives need to go back to being the centre right party with a knack for fiscal control, without austerity being the go to.
Trying to run the party instead of the country is 100% why the Tories lost. They can ill afford to go to war with Reform while maintaining their own division, otherwise they will continue to fade while Labour grows as the centre right choice and reform grows as the far right choice. |  |
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| Kemi or Suella? on 10:03 - Jul 5 with 4320 views | BlueBadger |
| Kemi or Suella? on 09:38 - Jul 5 by Guthrum |
In many of the sample of declared seats I saw before going to bed, Con + Ref still wouldn't have beaten Lab.
The wail about not having gone hard enough to the right is undermined by the fact parties to the left of Reform actually picked up all the seats and Labour won the election. Rather suggests that simply being Reform wouldn't have saved the Conservatives. |
That won’t stop them thinking that. The remaining rump of the Tories are either full on loons like the aforementioned or feeble dim witted forelock tuggers like James Cartlidge(who showed up at my local the other night). |  |
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| Kemi or Suella? on 10:08 - Jul 5 with 4262 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Kemi or Suella? on 10:02 - Jul 5 by wkj |
From what I am seeing, cut you losses and stop trying to be reform. The far right have their party now, the conservatives need to go back to being the centre right party with a knack for fiscal control, without austerity being the go to.
Trying to run the party instead of the country is 100% why the Tories lost. They can ill afford to go to war with Reform while maintaining their own division, otherwise they will continue to fade while Labour grows as the centre right choice and reform grows as the far right choice. |
Exactly this. Infighting and Brexit left them with no chance or energy to govern. They didn't lose because they were too left or too right. They lost because they were fooking hopeless since 2016. |  |
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| Kemi or Suella? on 10:21 - Jul 5 with 4164 views | WeWereZombies |
| Kemi or Suella? on 09:56 - Jul 5 by GavTWTD |
What other choices do they have? Hunt? |
Count Binface defection, you heard it here first... |  |
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| Kemi or Suella? on 11:33 - Jul 5 with 4019 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Kemi or Suella? on 09:56 - Jul 5 by GavTWTD |
What other choices do they have? Hunt? |
The trouble is that the hardline right kept more seats than the more soft left like Alex Chalk and Simon Hart. So I wouldn't be surprised if the ariamnatry party put through two right wingers into the round where the members vote. | |
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| Kemi or Suella? on 11:35 - Jul 5 with 3994 views | Blueschev |
| Kemi or Suella? on 11:33 - Jul 5 by GlasgowBlue |
The trouble is that the hardline right kept more seats than the more soft left like Alex Chalk and Simon Hart. So I wouldn't be surprised if the ariamnatry party put through two right wingers into the round where the members vote. |
Would you rule out Farage switching to the Tories on the condition he was on the Leadership ballot? |  | | |
| Kemi or Suella? on 11:39 - Jul 5 with 3965 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Kemi or Suella? on 09:38 - Jul 5 by Guthrum |
In many of the sample of declared seats I saw before going to bed, Con + Ref still wouldn't have beaten Lab.
The wail about not having gone hard enough to the right is undermined by the fact parties to the left of Reform actually picked up all the seats and Labour won the election. Rather suggests that simply being Reform wouldn't have saved the Conservatives. |
The other question is had Conservatives lurched further to the right to scoop up the Reform votes, how many of them would actually be incremental? No doubt they would've captured some but presumably there would've been some 'normal' Tories (I think there are still some) that would've taken exception and cast their vote elsewhere.
As you say, however you cut it I don't think the outcome changes a great deal. I think the sentiment was more around a feck you to the party that's disrespected the British public for far too long and carried themselves terribly and without much honourability. They've got what they deserved, and for the talk of election tactics its more a reflection on their performance IMO. [Post edited 5 Jul 2024 11:42]
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| Kemi or Suella? on 11:39 - Jul 5 with 3962 views | DJR |
| Kemi or Suella? on 11:33 - Jul 5 by GlasgowBlue |
The trouble is that the hardline right kept more seats than the more soft left like Alex Chalk and Simon Hart. So I wouldn't be surprised if the ariamnatry party put through two right wingers into the round where the members vote. |
Is that right? Do you have a rough breakdown of the actual numbers of what could perhaps be called "Research Group" MPs and MPs who are not such?
I had perhaps wrongly assumed that a lot of the former group would have been voted out in the Red Wall, and a lot of the latter would have tended to hold the more impregnable seats, but Badenach and Braverman may well disprove that assumption. [Post edited 5 Jul 2024 11:43]
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| Kemi or Suella? on 11:41 - Jul 5 with 3939 views | bluelagos |
Would imagine both Priti Patel and Cleverly will throw their hats in the ring too. Jenwick too. |  |
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| Kemi or Suella? on 11:46 - Jul 5 with 3891 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Kemi or Suella? on 11:35 - Jul 5 by Blueschev |
Would you rule out Farage switching to the Tories on the condition he was on the Leadership ballot? |
TBH I'm so out of touch with Conservative politics these days that I genuinely don't know. But my guts says that won't happen. It would be madness.
We know from last night's results that the Tory base is at 23-24%. Only die hard, won't vote for anyone else, Tories would have voted for this sh1t show. Reform came in at 14%. If you say that 4% of those are red wall labour voters then theoretically that moves another 10% to the Tories. But I wonder how many would actually vote Tory rather than say the BNP or not even vote at all and use Reform as a protest. So let's say 7% are Tories. That would give a base of 30%. That would be as much as the Tories could expect if they became the right wing choice. I don't see where any more of their support would come from lurching to the right.
The UK is a pretty centrist country. With a base of 24% there is every reason to believe that the Tories could pick up an extra 15% going into a future election as a more "One Nation" centre right party.
Those are only my thoughts and sadly not those of the people who will elect the next Tory leader. | |
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| Kemi or Suella? on 11:48 - Jul 5 with 3879 views | baxterbasics |
Out of those two I definitely prefer Kemi, think she is academically the smarter of the two and will have wider appeal. Less sullied by past performance.
But also expect Hunt, Cleverly and Patel to be in the mix potentially.
It's highly unlikely that whoever it is will win the next election or ever become PM anyway - they are in for a 97 to 2007 style period of reflection and multiple leaders. |  |
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| Kemi or Suella? on 11:53 - Jul 5 with 3854 views | positivity |
| Kemi or Suella? on 11:48 - Jul 5 by baxterbasics |
Out of those two I definitely prefer Kemi, think she is academically the smarter of the two and will have wider appeal. Less sullied by past performance.
But also expect Hunt, Cleverly and Patel to be in the mix potentially.
It's highly unlikely that whoever it is will win the next election or ever become PM anyway - they are in for a 97 to 2007 style period of reflection and multiple leaders. |
hoping it will indeed be a repeat of the post 1997 years (drifting right, becoming more and more unelectable until realising victories are won from the centre) just hoping they don't luck into another 2010 situation... |  |
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| Kemi or Suella? on 11:54 - Jul 5 with 3852 views | positivity |
=paul or paul? (in terms of itfc) | |
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| Kemi or Suella? on 12:00 - Jul 5 with 3822 views | bluebudgie |
| Kemi or Suella? on 10:02 - Jul 5 by wkj |
From what I am seeing, cut you losses and stop trying to be reform. The far right have their party now, the conservatives need to go back to being the centre right party with a knack for fiscal control, without austerity being the go to.
Trying to run the party instead of the country is 100% why the Tories lost. They can ill afford to go to war with Reform while maintaining their own division, otherwise they will continue to fade while Labour grows as the centre right choice and reform grows as the far right choice. |
Stop using the term"far right" when discussing Reforms with over 4 million voters I prefer the term not far right but RIGHT. You will be coming out with nonsense that those 4 million-plus are all fascists next as that's what you ultra-lefties always retort! |  | | |
| Kemi or Suella? on 12:01 - Jul 5 with 3813 views | baxterbasics |
| Kemi or Suella? on 11:53 - Jul 5 by positivity |
hoping it will indeed be a repeat of the post 1997 years (drifting right, becoming more and more unelectable until realising victories are won from the centre) just hoping they don't luck into another 2010 situation... |
Depends on another Cameron to appear from somewhere. However you judge him as PM, he at least knew how to communicate and understood the need for wider electoral appeal. | |
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| Kemi or Suella? on 12:01 - Jul 5 with 3803 views | positivity |
| Kemi or Suella? on 12:00 - Jul 5 by bluebudgie |
Stop using the term"far right" when discussing Reforms with over 4 million voters I prefer the term not far right but RIGHT. You will be coming out with nonsense that those 4 million-plus are all fascists next as that's what you ultra-lefties always retort! |
when he stops advocating far right policies, we'll stop | |
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| Kemi or Suella? on 12:10 - Jul 5 with 3768 views | bluebudgie |
| Kemi or Suella? on 12:01 - Jul 5 by positivity |
when he stops advocating far right policies, we'll stop |
Well thats a matter of opinion about "far right" policies my opinion and I'm sure the majority of the 4.3 million voters for reform wouldn't see it that way including me! | | | |
| Kemi or Suella? on 12:15 - Jul 5 with 3738 views | positivity |
| Kemi or Suella? on 12:10 - Jul 5 by bluebudgie |
Well thats a matter of opinion about "far right" policies my opinion and I'm sure the majority of the 4.3 million voters for reform wouldn't see it that way including me! |
how would you define far right policies and attitudes? [Post edited 5 Jul 2024 12:15]
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| Kemi or Suella? on 12:18 - Jul 5 with 3697 views | bluebudgie |
| Kemi or Suella? on 12:15 - Jul 5 by positivity |
how would you define far right policies and attitudes? [Post edited 5 Jul 2024 12:15]
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Not the way you and the leftie media define it that's for sure, not in this country anyway | | | |
| Kemi or Suella? on 12:19 - Jul 5 with 3692 views | Blueschev |
| Kemi or Suella? on 12:10 - Jul 5 by bluebudgie |
Well thats a matter of opinion about "far right" policies my opinion and I'm sure the majority of the 4.3 million voters for reform wouldn't see it that way including me! |
What does the number of votes they received have to do with whether or not they are far right? And just because you don't see them as far right doesn't mean that they are not. | | | |
| Kemi or Suella? on 12:21 - Jul 5 with 3666 views | positivity |
| Kemi or Suella? on 12:18 - Jul 5 by bluebudgie |
Not the way you and the leftie media define it that's for sure, not in this country anyway |
that's not an answer is it, just the weasel words that you'd expect from a far right politician (they might have thrown a bit of "woke" or "tofu" in there too!) | |
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| Kemi or Suella? on 12:23 - Jul 5 with 3647 views | Blueschev |
| Kemi or Suella? on 12:18 - Jul 5 by bluebudgie |
Not the way you and the leftie media define it that's for sure, not in this country anyway |
Who are the lefty media? I can only think of two left leaning newspapers and one of them is the Morning Star.
Terms like "leftie media" make you sound quite far right to be honest. | | | |
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