Forum | So we should respect the armed services then? by factual_blue

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So we should respect the armed services then? 17:20 - Aug 2 with 7872 views

What this woman had to suffer is disgusting. I wouldn't be surprised if her former colleagues were at Southport the other night.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c84jzex9vk8o

As further evidence, a friend's son is a trained and skilled MOD civilian mechanic. He was based in one of the army bases out there.

As his parents said, he went out an normal, decent lad and came back a racist.

Some years ago he went on a tour of duty in Afganistan

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-5

So we should respect the armed services then? on 07:41 - Aug 3 with 1742 views

Mercian

So we should respect the armed services then? on 06:53 - Aug 3 by jimmyvet
What on earth are you talking about you make no sense.

The main points of my answer.
1: The original poster asked if we should respect the armed forces because a women of an ethnic minority was abused throughout her service.
2: I answered that in general they should but the two people in a unit responsible for discipline for whatever reason did not properly enforce it.
3: The officers and soldiers in the unit got away with the abuse.
4: Disciplinary action will likely follow but it is unlikely that the person ultimately responsible for discipline (The Commanding Officer) and the person responsible for enforcing it (The Regimental Sergeant-Major) will be the ones to be sanctioned.
5: The person/people who are likely carry the can will be of the lowest rank that has any responsibility.
Which part(s) makes no sense?

[Post edited 3 Aug 2024 7:43]

So we should respect the armed services then? on 07:42 - Aug 3 with 1731 views

LuciBlue

So we should respect the armed services then? on 06:56 - Aug 3 by jimmyvet
I would like to see you in action on the streets of Sunderland last night and how well you would cope with bricks, bottles and other items being hurled at you by groups of drunken thugs when you make your pompous, elitist remarks on here. You should be ashamed of yourself FB. [Post edited 3 Aug 2024 7:07]

It's a 'dog whistle' to the anti-military, anti-police groups, maybe.
It's easy to project opinions onto remarks and questions.

Poll:

If you had to take one option..

So we should respect the armed services then? on 07:45 - Aug 3 with 1717 views

Mercian

So we should respect the armed services then? on 21:04 - Aug 2 by gtsb1966
Funny how nobody has responded to someone who has served. They're all experts though.

I have.

So we should respect the armed services then? on 07:57 - Aug 3 with 1682 views

Churchman

So we should respect the armed services then? on 07:22 - Aug 3 by bluejacko
The target demographic is whoever walks through the door to sign on! Mostly young white men you say ,this country is still mostly white so that’s not really a surprise is it? The vast majority of soldiers quickly realise it doesn’t matter on the colour of the blokes skin if he has to have your back and you his! [Post edited 3 Aug 2024 7:46]

It is exactly that. The forces have a real recruitment problem. Poor pay, conditions and a difficult job are just three reasons why the army will be down to 62k by the end of the year - according to somebody who should know.

Add on the contempt shown by a lot of people including some on this board and the bottom line is people just don’t want to do it. Not when there are easier ways to make a living or get handouts before getting your adrenaline rush bricking the police on a Friday night in Sunderland.

A harsh generalisation? Yes. But no more than tarring all service personnel with racism.

So we should respect the armed services then? on 07:59 - Aug 3 with 1680 views

Mercian

I do think the downvotes are unwarranted as there is some truth in what he says. When I joined up as an 18 year old in 92 there a lad who married a Muslin woman. Some of the soldiers in my squadron would follow them around a supermarket and put pork products in their trolley. They would also call him a "P*ki lover." The squadron commander (A major) knew about it an did nothing, in fact he encouraged it. There was pressure on some of the younger soldiers to join in and they did. I did not and was labeled "A lover of a P*ki lover." My squadron at the time was independent (not part of a regiment) so the Major's word was God. When he was replaced the new Major soon put a stop to it.

[Post edited 3 Aug 2024 8:04]

So we should respect the armed services then? on 09:17 - Aug 3 with 1619 views

bluejacko

Some questions have to be asked here.

Would anyone of you stay in a job for 10 yrs if you were being racially abused?

She made the rank of corporal which in 10 yrs is not spectacular but steady progress,so all those NCOs/Officers who had it in for her would not have given her a favourable annual fitness report to confirm she was good enough to deserve promotion if they were racist!

With the rank of corporal, I can assure you have the rocks ready platform to enforce the discipline required in your section/troop etc and you would have the complete backing of your troop Sargent and Cmd.

She stands in front of that Unit board with the biggest smile on her face. If you were in a unit that is treating you the way she claimed, would you put on your best smile and stand there? She after all can’t be ordered to smile!

All through her career she would have had ample opportunity to complain to her superiors including those OC interviews about her annual reports to discuss her career path. The Officers would have been duty bound to pass any racists complaints up the chain and there is no way they could have been swept under the carpet.

She didn’t have to wait 10yrs to go to the BBC after all did she?

Those boxes looked like an Amazon delivery etc, now if she was the clerk responsible for receiving those deliveries they are going to be on her desk!

Probably get pelters for this, but the questions needed to be asked.

[Post edited 3 Aug 2024 9:33]

So we should respect the armed services then? on 10:53 - Aug 3 with 1563 views

noggin

So we should respect the armed services then? on 07:22 - Aug 3 by bluejacko
The target demographic is whoever walks through the door to sign on! Mostly young white men you say ,this country is still mostly white so that’s not really a surprise is it? The vast majority of soldiers quickly realise it doesn’t matter on the colour of the blokes skin if he has to have your back and you his! [Post edited 3 Aug 2024 7:46]

I never said it was a surprise, in fact, that was my point.

Poll:

If KM goes now, will you applaud him when he returns with his new club?

So we should respect the armed services then? on 15:17 - Aug 3 with 1495 views

ElephantintheRoom

Interesting that you see nothing wrong with supporting a club run as a profit vehicle for the Arizona Police cited by the Department of Justice for endemic racism and an unfortunate record of killing civilians.

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So we should respect the armed services then? on 15:47 - Aug 3 with 1475 views

Hiphopopotamus

So we should respect the armed services then? on 09:17 - Aug 3 by bluejacko

[Post edited 3 Aug 2024 9:33]

It’s always good to ask very ignorant questions that diminish someone’s actual experience of racism!!!!

So we should respect the armed services then? on 16:04 - Aug 3 with 1450 views

Hiphopopotamus

So we should respect the armed services then? on 18:09 - Aug 2 by GlasgowBlue
The armed forces are a reflection of society. You can't tar the entire service with the same brush because there are vile racists in their ranks. Just as you can't tar the NHS with the same brush as murderers because of people like Beverley Allitt and Lucy Letby or the BBC as paedophiles because of "Huw", Saville etc. [Post edited 2 Aug 2024 18:10]

Yes. The army are just a regular cross-section of society. The part of society that are trained to kill other people.

So we should respect the armed services then? on 16:18 - Aug 3 with 1430 views

bluejacko

So we should respect the armed services then? on 15:47 - Aug 3 by Hiphopopotamus
It’s always good to ask very ignorant questions that diminish someone’s actual experience of racism!!!!

Well that’s your opinion belief what you will.
The fact remains she would not have progressed as far as she did if she was subject to continuous racism in every unit she was posted to!
Any other black soldiers in those same units get treated the same if so why didn’t they speak out and protect her if the need had arisen?
Why put up with it for 10yrs?
The Army haven’t admitted anything was going on so basically we only have her word on it!

[Post edited 3 Aug 2024 16:22]

So we should respect the armed services then? on 16:49 - Aug 3 with 1393 views

noggin

So we should respect the armed services then? on 16:18 - Aug 3 by bluejacko

[Post edited 3 Aug 2024 16:22]

Are you suggesting that she's lying and that racism doesn't exist in the forces? I can promise you, it does.

Poll:

If KM goes now, will you applaud him when he returns with his new club?

So we should respect the armed services then? on 16:57 - Aug 3 with 1359 views

bluejacko

So we should respect the armed services then? on 16:49 - Aug 3 by noggin
Are you suggesting that she's lying and that racism doesn't exist in the forces? I can promise you, it does.

We have here a one sided story what you believe is up to you but there are. so many holes in it you have to wonder!
You will struggle to find any place that racism doesn’t exist even in the ordinary workplace and that is not all one way either.

[Post edited 3 Aug 2024 17:05]

So we should respect the armed services then? on 17:03 - Aug 3 with 1340 views

noggin

So we should respect the armed services then? on 16:57 - Aug 3 by bluejacko
We have here a one sided story what you believe is up to you but there are. so many holes in it you have to wonder! You will struggle to find any place that racism doesn’t exist even in the ordinary workplace and that is not all one way either. [Post edited 3 Aug 2024 17:05]

The army has made a public apology and says it accepts that she experienced racist and sexist harassment. I'm not sure what you don't get.

Poll:

If KM goes now, will you applaud him when he returns with his new club?

So we should respect the armed services then? on 17:35 - Aug 3 with 1292 views

Swansea_Blue

So we should respect the armed services then? on 17:03 - Aug 3 by noggin
The army has made a public apology and says it accepts that she experienced racist and sexist harassment. I'm not sure what you don't get.

Pah, apology smology. Maybe they had their fingers crossed behind their backs?

Poll:

Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

So we should respect the armed services then? on 18:24 - Aug 3 with 1228 views

bluejacko

So we should respect the armed services then? on 17:03 - Aug 3 by noggin
The army has made a public apology and says it accepts that she experienced racist and sexist harassment. I'm not sure what you don't get.

Yet no liability was admitted,no witnesses for the prosecution so they took her word for it,perhaps I should claim for being shouted at by the RSM ( black man) to get my haircut.

So we should respect the armed services then? on 18:32 - Aug 3 with 1210 views

noggin

So we should respect the armed services then? on 18:24 - Aug 3 by bluejacko
Yet no liability was admitted,no witnesses for the prosecution so they took her word for it,perhaps I should claim for being shouted at by the RSM ( black man) to get my haircut.

You're coming across as a bit of a bigot. If you are an ex serviceman, you're pretty much confirming that racism is a problem.

Poll:

If KM goes now, will you applaud him when he returns with his new club?

So we should respect the armed services then? on 20:34 - Aug 3 with 1137 views

Mercian

So we should respect the armed services then? on 16:04 - Aug 3 by Hiphopopotamus
Yes. The army are just a regular cross-section of society. The part of society that are trained to kill other people.

To stop other people killing you, to protect you and your freedom. The Pacifists either do not understand or choose to look over that they would"undesirables" under a number of regimes right now and many hundreds throughout history and removed from society.

[Post edited 3 Aug 2024 20:35]

So we should respect the armed services then? on 20:54 - Aug 3 with 1098 views

Hiphopopotamus

So we should respect the armed services then? on 20:34 - Aug 3 by Mercian
To stop other people killing you, to protect you and your freedom. The Pacifists either do not understand or choose to look over that they would"undesirables" under a number of regimes right now and many hundreds throughout history and removed from society. [Post edited 3 Aug 2024 20:35]

Really pleased I’m protected from all those Iraqis and Afghanistanis that posed such a threat to my freedom!!!! Thanks lads!!!!

-1

So we should respect the armed services then? on 20:59 - Aug 3 with 1085 views

noggin

So we should respect the armed services then? on 20:54 - Aug 3 by Hiphopopotamus
Really pleased I’m protected from all those Iraqis and Afghanistanis that posed such a threat to my freedom!!!! Thanks lads!!!!

Fair point.

Poll:

If KM goes now, will you applaud him when he returns with his new club?

So we should respect the armed services then? on 21:12 - Aug 3 with 1054 views

Mercian

So we should respect the armed services then? on 20:54 - Aug 3 by Hiphopopotamus
Really pleased I’m protected from all those Iraqis and Afghanistanis that posed such a threat to my freedom!!!! Thanks lads!!!!

What about the Russians? What about people still alive today from the Germans?

[Post edited 3 Aug 2024 21:14]

So we should respect the armed services then? on 21:23 - Aug 3 with 1026 views

GlasgowBlue

So we should respect the armed services then? on 21:12 - Aug 3 by Mercian
What about the Russians? What about people still alive today from the Germans? [Post edited 3 Aug 2024 21:14]

den Troll nicht füttern

as we would now be saying had our armed forces,alongside our allies, not defeated fascism in Europe.

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So we should respect the armed services then? on 21:58 - Aug 3 with 999 views

Hiphopopotamus

So we should respect the armed services then? on 21:23 - Aug 3 by GlasgowBlue
den Troll nicht füttern as we would now be saying had our armed forces,alongside our allies, not defeated fascism in Europe.

You’re right. The Second World War was very recent and the world hasn’t changed at all since then!!!!!

So we should respect the armed services then? on 22:07 - Aug 3 with 974 views

Hiphopopotamus

So we should respect the armed services then? on 21:23 - Aug 3 by GlasgowBlue
den Troll nicht füttern as we would now be saying had our armed forces,alongside our allies, not defeated fascism in Europe.

A troll is someone who simply disagrees with me!!!!

So we should respect the armed services then? on 05:39 - Aug 4 with 841 views

Churchman

So we should respect the armed services then? on 20:54 - Aug 3 by Hiphopopotamus
Really pleased I’m protected from all those Iraqis and Afghanistanis that posed such a threat to my freedom!!!! Thanks lads!!!!

Nice piece of sarcasm. Still, at least you didn’t use capitals. I’m not quite sure what your point is.

You are protected from all sorts of threats by all sorts of people.

In terms of conflicts, the military, like all public servants, just implement government policy in a form that we recognise as they have done really since the Civil War.

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