| Jimmy Carter RIP on 21:45 - Dec 29 with 2481 views | gtsb1966 |
It was 44 years ago, it's America, i doubt it. [Post edited 29 Dec 2024 21:46]
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| Jimmy Carter RIP on 22:04 - Dec 29 with 2379 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
He showed that not all politicians are in it for themselves. Some of the present crop might learn from his example. Some won't! |  |
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| Jimmy Carter RIP on 22:07 - Dec 29 with 2366 views | BlueBadger |
| Jimmy Carter RIP on 21:45 - Dec 29 by gtsb1966 |
It was 44 years ago, it's America, i doubt it. [Post edited 29 Dec 2024 21:46]
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We *might* have escaped Reaganomics, which would probably have meant that the ongoing obsession with feeding 'wealth creators' *might* not have have happened here. |  |
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| Jimmy Carter RIP on 22:07 - Dec 29 with 2368 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Jimmy Carter RIP on 21:45 - Dec 29 by gtsb1966 |
It was 44 years ago, it's America, i doubt it. [Post edited 29 Dec 2024 21:46]
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Reagan introduced several reforms that had disastrous long-term effects - for example abolishing the fairness doctrine, which allowed the rise of the likes of Fox News. Had they not happened, the US (and the world) could be a bit different now. |  | | |
| Jimmy Carter RIP on 22:08 - Dec 29 with 2348 views | GlasgowBlue |
I doubt we would have seen the fall of the iron curtain without Ronald Reagan. Carter also tossed aside the Shah of Iran which heralded the biggest sponsors of worldwide terrorism in the Islamic Republic of Iran. So Carter wasn't great on foreign policy, although the Camp David Accords was a massive achievement.
R.I.P. all the same. A very decent man. [Post edited 29 Dec 2024 22:16]
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| Jimmy Carter RIP on 22:19 - Dec 29 with 2259 views | BlueBadger |
| Jimmy Carter RIP on 22:08 - Dec 29 by GlasgowBlue |
I doubt we would have seen the fall of the iron curtain without Ronald Reagan. Carter also tossed aside the Shah of Iran which heralded the biggest sponsors of worldwide terrorism in the Islamic Republic of Iran. So Carter wasn't great on foreign policy, although the Camp David Accords was a massive achievement.
R.I.P. all the same. A very decent man. [Post edited 29 Dec 2024 22:16]
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The USSR, I suspect would have collapsed around the time it did with or without Reagan. Arguably, Reagan's overly confrontational attitude at the start of his presidency arguably contributed to a soviet clampdown on countries that might otherwise have wrested themselves away earlier. [Post edited 30 Dec 2024 9:26]
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| Jimmy Carter RIP on 22:34 - Dec 29 with 2181 views | Zx1988 |
Strikes me as an all-round good egg, and a chap that we, as a society, are much poorer for having lost.
However, I'll struggle not to remember him as history's greatest monster, along with a good chunk of my generation! [Post edited 29 Dec 2024 22:42]
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| Jimmy Carter RIP on 23:41 - Dec 29 with 2014 views | Guthrum |
| Jimmy Carter RIP on 22:19 - Dec 29 by BlueBadger |
The USSR, I suspect would have collapsed around the time it did with or without Reagan. Arguably, Reagan's overly confrontational attitude at the start of his presidency arguably contributed to a soviet clampdown on countries that might otherwise have wrested themselves away earlier. [Post edited 30 Dec 2024 9:26]
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Reagan's early aggressive attitude pushed the USSR into extra military spending of their own (last days of Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko), which contributed to their bankruptcy. Then Reagan realised Gorbachev was serious about detente/reform and changed tack. His influence in that should not be understated.
Tho a lot of his domestic economic and cultural stuff was not so good. |  |
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| Jimmy Carter RIP on 02:00 - Dec 30 with 1815 views | Mercian |
| Jimmy Carter RIP on 21:45 - Dec 29 by gtsb1966 |
It was 44 years ago, it's America, i doubt it. [Post edited 29 Dec 2024 21:46]
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Reagan does not get elected and would probably not run in 84. George H W Bush probably does not become president and his son would not have the same amount of name recognition and may have not become president himself. Bush Sr was a half decent if not outstanding POTUS but the other two swung the Republican Party to the right both domestically and internationally being socially and economically conservative and hawkish. Trump would likely still be firing apprentices and doing cameos in cheesy films. In hindsight I imagine Iran regrets not releasing the hostages earlier. Things could be very different, World history has swung on far smaller matters.
RIP President Carter. [Post edited 30 Dec 2024 8:09]
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| Jimmy Carter RIP on 07:40 - Dec 30 with 1625 views | WeWereZombies |
| Jimmy Carter RIP on 02:00 - Dec 30 by Mercian |
Reagan does not get elected and would probably not run in 84. George H W Bush probably does not become president and his son would not have the same amount of name recognition and may have not become president himself. Bush Sr was a half decent if not outstanding POTUS but the other two swung the Republican Party to the right both domestically and internationally being socially and economically conservative and hawkish. Trump would likely still be firing apprentices and doing cameos in cheesy films. In hindsight I imagine Iran regrets not releasing the hostages earlier. Things could be very different, World history has swung on far smaller matters.
RIP President Carter. [Post edited 30 Dec 2024 8:09]
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Sadly, even if Carter had gotten a second term he still would not have served at the same time as Gorbachev came to power in the Soviet Union. They would have made an interesting dynamic and I suspect that the World would be a much more peaceable place today as a result. You make a pertinent point about the Iranian move to hang on to the hostages for so long but I think it is in the nature of religious extremism to push things to the wire (and beyond) as validation for their views. The silver lining to this cloud is that you cannot keep the yearning for social justice and self determination down no matter how authoritarian the regime, but even that silver lining is rained upon when you consider the millions of dead,injured and lives curtailed by confinement. |  |
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| Jimmy Carter RIP on 08:25 - Dec 30 with 1551 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Jimmy Carter RIP on 22:07 - Dec 29 by BlueBadger |
We *might* have escaped Reaganomics, which would probably have meant that the ongoing obsession with feeding 'wealth creators' *might* not have have happened here. |
Are you not feeling sufficiently tricked-downed upon? Have you tried believing harder? |  |
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| Jimmy Carter RIP on 09:33 - Dec 30 with 1458 views | BlueBadger |
| Jimmy Carter RIP on 08:25 - Dec 30 by Swansea_Blue |
Are you not feeling sufficiently tricked-downed upon? Have you tried believing harder? |
I think we've all had a lot of something trickle down... | |
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| Jimmy Carter RIP on 10:06 - Dec 30 with 1394 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Jimmy Carter RIP on 23:41 - Dec 29 by Guthrum |
Reagan's early aggressive attitude pushed the USSR into extra military spending of their own (last days of Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko), which contributed to their bankruptcy. Then Reagan realised Gorbachev was serious about detente/reform and changed tack. His influence in that should not be understated.
Tho a lot of his domestic economic and cultural stuff was not so good. |
Spot on as usual Guthers. | |
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| Jimmy Carter RIP on 11:25 - Dec 30 with 1275 views | mellowblue |
Except that there ws never a cat in hell's chance of him achieving thant second term. The Iran hostages, the becoming ill while jogging sent out negative vibes to the American population, his persona was always nice but always appeared out of his depth. The optics were all wrong. The Israel Egypt accord showed his charming side could be put to good use, though it was Kissinger's shuttle diplomacy that was the important dog work. Domestically , inflation and falling growth was the scourge It was no surprise that Reagan got with an absolute landslide. | | | |
| Jimmy Carter RIP on 11:33 - Dec 30 with 1255 views | DJR |
| Jimmy Carter RIP on 23:41 - Dec 29 by Guthrum |
Reagan's early aggressive attitude pushed the USSR into extra military spending of their own (last days of Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko), which contributed to their bankruptcy. Then Reagan realised Gorbachev was serious about detente/reform and changed tack. His influence in that should not be understated.
Tho a lot of his domestic economic and cultural stuff was not so good. |
Here's a different take. indeed, the 0.5 percentage point increase in defence spending in the last two years of his term, following the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, was at a higher rate than subsequent increases in defence spending by Reagan (which amounted in total to 1.5 percentage points, with defence spending falling as a percentage of GDP after 1986..
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/what-jimmy-carter-left-behind
Perhaps Carter’s most underappreciated foreign policy initiative was his role in ensuring the ultimate downfall of the Soviet Union. Near the end of his term, Carter pursued a much more confrontational policy toward the Soviet Union. Although his successor, Ronald Reagan, is credited for bringing about the end of the Cold War, it was Carter who laid the groundwork for the subsequent decade of tough anti-Soviet policies. As Gates, who served as acting CIA director under Reagan, noted in his memoir, Carter “took the first steps to strip away the mask of Soviet ascendancy and exploit the reality of Soviet vulnerability.”
Carter challenged, publicly and consistently, the legitimacy of Soviet rule. He assailed Moscow’s human rights abuses and amplified the testimony of countless dissidents who challenged its moral authority. He imposed new sanctions in response to the Soviet Union’s affronts to human rights, especially following the trials of the well-known dissidents Natan Sharansky and Alexander Ginzburg. Declassified CIA reports reveal that Carter’s personal involvement on behalf of Soviet dissidents particularly disturbed Soviet authorities.
Beyond his rhetoric, Carter pioneered new economic and military capabilities to counter the Soviet Union. He initiated a vast modernization of U.S. forces to meet the Soviet threat. He reversed the post-Vietnam decline in U.S. defense spending, providing the basis for the defense buildup that is usually associated with Reagan. The budget request for fiscal year 1982 that Carter issued in the final days of his presidency was, at the time, the country’s largest defense budget, adjusted for inflation, since the tail end of the Vietnam War. Even Reagan’s annual increases did not always meet Carter’s lofty goal.
Carter also transformed U.S. national security strategy by modernizing force levels, mobilization, and communications; upgrading NATO forces and equipment to counter the Warsaw Pact; revamping the U.S. nuclear arsenal’s command-and-control system; and accelerating the development of stealth aircraft technology. “Carter began much of what the Reagan administration carried out,” the Pentagon historian Edward Keefer has written, adding, “The Reagan revolution in defense began under Carter.” Even Reagan, who criticized Carter’s military spending throughout the 1980 presidential campaign, eventually praised his attention to military preparedness. Around the world, too, Carter undertook dogged efforts to confront and resist Moscow, most notably in Afghanistan, where nearly a decade of quagmire contributed to the Soviet Union’s downfall. [Post edited 30 Dec 2024 11:41]
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| Jimmy Carter RIP on 11:44 - Dec 30 with 1187 views | PhilTWTD |
Heard an enviromental historian talking about how progressive he was regarding what we'd now call green energy and how Reagan scrapped it all within weeks of his election. |  | | |
| Jimmy Carter RIP on 11:51 - Dec 30 with 1168 views | lowhouseblue |
| Jimmy Carter RIP on 22:08 - Dec 29 by GlasgowBlue |
I doubt we would have seen the fall of the iron curtain without Ronald Reagan. Carter also tossed aside the Shah of Iran which heralded the biggest sponsors of worldwide terrorism in the Islamic Republic of Iran. So Carter wasn't great on foreign policy, although the Camp David Accords was a massive achievement.
R.I.P. all the same. A very decent man. [Post edited 29 Dec 2024 22:16]
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it's not really about carter, and it's not counter factual - more showing parallels between now and the past, but i thought this was interesting:
https://unherd.com/2024/12/why-liberals-keep-losing/
edit: in a similar style, i thought the today podcast review of the year with justin webb was spot on in terms of the us election:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00268xq [Post edited 30 Dec 2024 11:59]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Jimmy Carter RIP on 11:54 - Dec 30 with 1140 views | baxterbasics |
Probably too decent a man to be effective as a world leader. But dude kept working for others almost until his last breath, got to respect that. |  |
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