| "Big clubs" 11:40 - Feb 20 with 5568 views | DinnernotTea |
That you can't really get your head around why they're deemed that, either by their own fans or the media.
Birmingham
Leicester
Portsmouth
Sheff United
Sheff Wednesday
Blackburn
West Brom
Derby
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| "Big clubs" on 22:47 - Feb 20 with 1340 views | Smoresy |
| "Big clubs" on 19:33 - Feb 20 by MK1 |
Why are Sunderland in there? They are no bigger than Sheff. Weds. |
Sunderland have been Champions 6 times, runner-up 5 times, 3rd 8 times, won 2 FA cups and spent 86 years in the top flight. Wednesday have been Champions 4 times, runner-up twice, 3rd 7 times, won 3 FA Cups, a League Cup and spent 66 years in the top flight. But the difference isn't so much in those historic numbers as it is in support. Sunderland have averaged 26.5K fans over their history, while Wednesday average 21.5K. Sunderland had close to 15K more fans attend last season and they have close to 15K more attending this season, in the same division. They're a significantly better supported club, both historically and present day, while success on the field is arguably more marginal. | | | |
| "Big clubs" on 22:58 - Feb 20 with 1329 views | Smoresy |
| "Big clubs" on 20:57 - Feb 20 by sjg |
Newcastle same level as Everton and Villa? |
I'd place them in the same category because of their support. They're 5th in the country for average attendance, 33K crowds vs 26K in the next rung down (Leeds, Sun, WH), while they've also been Champions 4 times, won 6 FA Cups, won a Europa League equiv., and have spent 92 years in the top flight, never graced Div 3. I would agree with Everton and Villa being ahead of them in the same category, but Newcastle are a hugely supported club and now incredibly wealthy too. | | | |
| "Big clubs" on 23:06 - Feb 20 with 1317 views | sjg |
| "Big clubs" on 22:58 - Feb 20 by Smoresy |
I'd place them in the same category because of their support. They're 5th in the country for average attendance, 33K crowds vs 26K in the next rung down (Leeds, Sun, WH), while they've also been Champions 4 times, won 6 FA Cups, won a Europa League equiv., and have spent 92 years in the top flight, never graced Div 3. I would agree with Everton and Villa being ahead of them in the same category, but Newcastle are a hugely supported club and now incredibly wealthy too. |
Big city =/= big club
Most recent league title in 1927
Most recent FA Cup in 1955
Been in the Championship a couple of times in the last 15 years
A long way below Everton, Villa and Leeds for me | | | |
| "Big clubs" on 23:44 - Feb 20 with 1272 views | bournemouthblue |
| "Big clubs" on 19:38 - Feb 20 by Swansea_Blue |
I see Sunderland as a big club. It depends how one defines it of course, but their average attendance is near 40k. And their fans are madly passionate, etc.
Not won anything of note lately though, so if you’re going by that yardstick then, no, they’re not. They’re small fry compared to us on honours. |
Haven't Sunderland won the League 6 times,
how is that small fry compared to us? |  |
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| "Big clubs" on 23:49 - Feb 20 with 1268 views | bournemouthblue |
| "Big clubs" on 23:06 - Feb 20 by sjg |
Big city =/= big club
Most recent league title in 1927
Most recent FA Cup in 1955
Been in the Championship a couple of times in the last 15 years
A long way below Everton, Villa and Leeds for me |
Leeds are a big club I don't think anyone can deny that but their honours aren't actually that brilliant for a club who will tell you how great they are?
Three league titles, one FA Cup, one league cup, two fairs cups and some European runners up appearances but far below what you would expect | |
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| "Big clubs" on 00:57 - Feb 21 with 1231 views | Smoresy |
| "Big clubs" on 23:49 - Feb 20 by bournemouthblue |
Leeds are a big club I don't think anyone can deny that but their honours aren't actually that brilliant for a club who will tell you how great they are?
Three league titles, one FA Cup, one league cup, two fairs cups and some European runners up appearances but far below what you would expect |
Indeed, and they've spent 44 of their 97 seasons outside the top flight, in addition to having significantly fewer fans. Leeds is a one club city too of course and and a much larger city than Newcastle. All matters of opinion though aha. | | | |
| "Big clubs" on 09:36 - Feb 21 with 1123 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Lots of mentions of Everton here, but surely they are a mid range club in size/support. Isn’t their appeal largely regional, I’ve never even met an Everton fan in London, let alone abroad? Contrastingly you come across loads of Newcastle and Leeds fans (who many have bracketed as a similar size).
Just an observation. | | | |
| "Big clubs" on 09:49 - Feb 21 with 1099 views | DJR |
| "Big clubs" on 09:36 - Feb 21 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Lots of mentions of Everton here, but surely they are a mid range club in size/support. Isn’t their appeal largely regional, I’ve never even met an Everton fan in London, let alone abroad? Contrastingly you come across loads of Newcastle and Leeds fans (who many have bracketed as a similar size).
Just an observation. |
My in-laws are Evertonians and there is something in what you say.
In terms of wider support, it was Everton's misfortune to have their most successful spell in the last 50 years in the 1980s when English football was at an all time low. And they missed out on the European Cup because of the ban following Heysel, something my father-in-law felt bitter towards Liverpool about. Their success also predated the Premier League when armchair or long-distance fans really became a thing.
Stuart Watson is a Toffee but I've never found out why because he doesn't sound like he hails from Liverpool.
And I would still regard Everton as a big club (perhaps now on a par with how Man City were 10 or so years ago but just below the current very top teams). Tottenham would probably be the nearest equivalent but Everton have been much more successful since Tottenham last won the league, the year before Ipswich. [Post edited 21 Feb 10:31]
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| "Big clubs" on 10:12 - Feb 21 with 1072 views | Smoresy |
| "Big clubs" on 09:36 - Feb 21 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Lots of mentions of Everton here, but surely they are a mid range club in size/support. Isn’t their appeal largely regional, I’ve never even met an Everton fan in London, let alone abroad? Contrastingly you come across loads of Newcastle and Leeds fans (who many have bracketed as a similar size).
Just an observation. |
Everton are perhaps like Newcastle in that they've spent so long in the top flight, surrounded by mega money and global giants these past two decades, that they don't get the Sky loving as often as a Leeds do in the Championship, with the Championship being one of Sky's other premier offerings. If Everton dropped they would instantly become the poster child down there.
Everton have 121 years in the top flight, Champions 9 times, 5 FA Cup wins, CWC winners, 7th for average all-time attendance, 3rd for average all-time league finish, and like Newcastle they have triple the number of social media followers as a Leeds, on top of the bigger gates. | | | |
| "Big clubs" on 10:15 - Feb 21 with 1064 views | MattinLondon |
| "Big clubs" on 09:36 - Feb 21 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Lots of mentions of Everton here, but surely they are a mid range club in size/support. Isn’t their appeal largely regional, I’ve never even met an Everton fan in London, let alone abroad? Contrastingly you come across loads of Newcastle and Leeds fans (who many have bracketed as a similar size).
Just an observation. |
To a certain extent the entire notion of what makes a big club is outdated.
Traditionally Leeds and Sheff W are far bigger clubs than both Brentford and Bournemouth, but due to TV money, the two ‘smaller’ clubs can offer much much more. In comparison, Leeds etc can offer nothing.
Basically, a club is either in the PL or not. That what makes a big club nowadays, with the Champions League or prospect of that (or European football) being what makes PL more attractive than one another.
[Post edited 21 Feb 10:18]
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| "Big clubs" on 11:47 - Feb 21 with 1010 views | sjg |
| "Big clubs" on 09:36 - Feb 21 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Lots of mentions of Everton here, but surely they are a mid range club in size/support. Isn’t their appeal largely regional, I’ve never even met an Everton fan in London, let alone abroad? Contrastingly you come across loads of Newcastle and Leeds fans (who many have bracketed as a similar size).
Just an observation. |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everton_F.C.#Honours | | | |
| "Big clubs" on 12:43 - Feb 21 with 958 views | WubbleU |
The one I never understand is when people talk about 'The big 6'
Trophies galore amongst...
Manchester United
Manchester City
Arsenal
Chelsea
Liverpool
and, errr, hmm,
How do Spurs join this group? Won nothing in living memory, it can only be most journalists are Spurs fans that qualifies them? | | | |
| "Big clubs" on 13:06 - Feb 21 with 945 views | HighgateBlue |
| "Big clubs" on 12:43 - Feb 21 by WubbleU |
The one I never understand is when people talk about 'The big 6'
Trophies galore amongst...
Manchester United
Manchester City
Arsenal
Chelsea
Liverpool
and, errr, hmm,
How do Spurs join this group? Won nothing in living memory, it can only be most journalists are Spurs fans that qualifies them? |
I think it's just that they had a period of a few years when they were regularly in the top 6, and it was around that time that this name was coined.
I always love it when they add "traditional" to the "top x" or "big x" moniker. It's not traditional for the same few sides always to finish in the top quarter of the league, it's not traditional to refer to certain clubs in that way, and it's not traditional for the biggest clubs to include those which they currently do (Man City especially).
I guess it's the Champions League entrenching the "haves" agains the have nots, the modern desire to overanalyse and overname, and a big big dollop of recency bias.
I believe Conte was fired by Spurs when they were 4th. That was how good they /thought/ they were. They're not going to be in any "big six" list for very much longer, and Man Utd are increasingly looking like frauds too.
But maybe this is a healthy rotation of the kind that we used to see all the time. Right now it's "let's all laugh at Spurs", and that's certainly very fun to do, but in the past there was nothing out of the ordinary about clubs' league positions varying from one year to the next. We were used to Fergie tearing it up with Man Utd in the 90s, but they finished outside of the top 10 three times in the late 80s, and were in the second tier briefly in the 1970s. And we all know about Man City being in the third tier not so long ago. |  | | |
| "Big clubs" on 13:25 - Feb 21 with 935 views | MK1 |
| "Big clubs" on 23:06 - Feb 20 by sjg |
Big city =/= big club
Most recent league title in 1927
Most recent FA Cup in 1955
Been in the Championship a couple of times in the last 15 years
A long way below Everton, Villa and Leeds for me |
Anybody who doesn't think Newcastle as a big club really shouldn't be commenting on this thread. |  |
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| "Big clubs" on 13:29 - Feb 21 with 923 views | sjg |
| "Big clubs" on 13:25 - Feb 21 by MK1 |
Anybody who doesn't think Newcastle as a big club really shouldn't be commenting on this thread. |
What qualifies them as a big club? Won nothing since 1955, no supporters outside the north east, all of their most famous players/managers’ best achievements are what they did elsewhere (Gazza, SBR, Shearer, Keegan) [Post edited 21 Feb 13:29]
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| "Big clubs" on 13:40 - Feb 21 with 894 views | MK1 |
10 of the 12 clubs I listed earlier in the thread have the highest attendance figures this season. The top 3 are in the bottom 8 of the PL.
It is easy to support those side that are always at the top, it's those clubs who still bring in the big crowds even when they are struggling in the bottom half.
I also mentioned Notts Forest, as I think they are a big club with plenty of support outside of Nottingham. (I accept that I might be in a bit of a time warp with them) The other was Leeds, who obviously aren't in the PL, but are without doubt, a big club.
No other clubs can bring in the crowds the 11 big can, even when things aren't going as well as expected.
To mention the likes of Blackburn, WBA or ourselves in the same conversation is laughable. | |
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| "Big clubs" on 13:42 - Feb 21 with 894 views | gainsboroughblue |
| "Big clubs" on 12:43 - Feb 21 by WubbleU |
The one I never understand is when people talk about 'The big 6'
Trophies galore amongst...
Manchester United
Manchester City
Arsenal
Chelsea
Liverpool
and, errr, hmm,
How do Spurs join this group? Won nothing in living memory, it can only be most journalists are Spurs fans that qualifies them? |
It used to be the big 5 pre-Premier League
Man Utd
Liverpool
Everton
Arsenal
Spurs
Spurs have always been heralded as some huge entity for some reason. |  |
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| "Big clubs" on 13:49 - Feb 21 with 870 views | MK1 |
| "Big clubs" on 13:29 - Feb 21 by sjg |
What qualifies them as a big club? Won nothing since 1955, no supporters outside the north east, all of their most famous players/managers’ best achievements are what they did elsewhere (Gazza, SBR, Shearer, Keegan) [Post edited 21 Feb 13:29]
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"no supporters outside the north east"? | |
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| "Big clubs" on 13:52 - Feb 21 with 859 views | sjg |
| "Big clubs" on 13:49 - Feb 21 by MK1 |
"no supporters outside the north east"? |
Definitely a smaller presence than Leeds, big 6, Everton, Villa etc. | | | |
| "Big clubs" on 14:00 - Feb 21 with 839 views | MK1 |
| "Big clubs" on 13:42 - Feb 21 by gainsboroughblue |
It used to be the big 5 pre-Premier League
Man Utd
Liverpool
Everton
Arsenal
Spurs
Spurs have always been heralded as some huge entity for some reason. |
They have massive support.
Anybody questioning whether Tottenham, Newcastle or Leeds are big clubs, really shouldn't be on this thread. It doesn't matter if you like them or not, the big 10 (11 if you include NF) in the PL are truly big clubs. Huge attendance figures regardless of success is a pretty good marker for me. Titles and trophies add up of course, but if you are pulling in crowds of over 50,000 whilst sitting 16th in the league, then you are a big club.
Just for clarity, I think Notts Forest are a big club as I know a lot of Forest fans, but accept I may be in a time warp with them. | |
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| "Big clubs" on 14:02 - Feb 21 with 834 views | MK1 |
| "Big clubs" on 13:52 - Feb 21 by sjg |
Definitely a smaller presence than Leeds, big 6, Everton, Villa etc. |
Definitely not. Newcastle have massive support all over the country and beyond.
Newcastle are a big club and I really don't think that can be questioned. | |
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| "Big clubs" on 14:04 - Feb 21 with 824 views | sjg |
| "Big clubs" on 14:00 - Feb 21 by MK1 |
They have massive support.
Anybody questioning whether Tottenham, Newcastle or Leeds are big clubs, really shouldn't be on this thread. It doesn't matter if you like them or not, the big 10 (11 if you include NF) in the PL are truly big clubs. Huge attendance figures regardless of success is a pretty good marker for me. Titles and trophies add up of course, but if you are pulling in crowds of over 50,000 whilst sitting 16th in the league, then you are a big club.
Just for clarity, I think Notts Forest are a big club as I know a lot of Forest fans, but accept I may be in a time warp with them. |
What's the point of this if you're just going to tell everyone what the 'right answer' is and to get off the thread? | | | |
| "Big clubs" on 14:12 - Feb 21 with 798 views | MK1 |
| "Big clubs" on 14:04 - Feb 21 by sjg |
What's the point of this if you're just going to tell everyone what the 'right answer' is and to get off the thread? |
I give up. | |
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| "Big clubs" on 15:02 - Feb 21 with 736 views | Smoresy |
| "Big clubs" on 13:29 - Feb 21 by sjg |
What qualifies them as a big club? Won nothing since 1955, no supporters outside the north east, all of their most famous players/managers’ best achievements are what they did elsewhere (Gazza, SBR, Shearer, Keegan) [Post edited 21 Feb 13:29]
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They have three times the casual support / socials followers of Leeds, much bigger physical support and a significantly higher all-time league position, loads more top-flight appearances, so it genuinely surprises me that you hold that opinion. Since Leeds won the league in 92', Newcastle have been runner-up twice, 3rd twice, 4th twice, 5th twice, 6th once, 7th twice.. while Leeds have spent half their time in the EFL with attendances in the 20Ks.
My blind guess would be that some of the thoughts around Leeds and Wednesday on this thread, vs Newcastle and Sunderland respectively, come from people of a certain vintage, wherein the 90s doesn't feel like that long a time ago (that or Yorkshire postcodes aha). I'm no longer young, people have reliably informed me so, and still I was yet a twinkle in the dad's eye when Leeds or Wednesday last won a big honour. Over half of humans alive today didn't exist when either happened lol. It's the very distant past sadly, much like Newcastle's triumphs in the 50s.
On the Tottenham point in a different person's post, I think this Sky branding first came around after a series of consecutive top 6 finishes. In fairness to them, looking it up now, they did finish in the top 6 for 11 years on the spin. There's also one other area in which we have a clear big 6 and that's in revenue. For a good few years Spurs have competed very well here, earning more than Arsenal typically. The drop from 6th to 7th (often Newcastle) is usually massive, like around half the revenue of the "big boys" above. Will be interesting to see if Newcastle can make further inroads now under the Saudi regime. | | | |
| "Big clubs" on 18:06 - Feb 21 with 627 views | solemio |
| "Big clubs" on 12:43 - Feb 21 by WubbleU |
The one I never understand is when people talk about 'The big 6'
Trophies galore amongst...
Manchester United
Manchester City
Arsenal
Chelsea
Liverpool
and, errr, hmm,
How do Spurs join this group? Won nothing in living memory, it can only be most journalists are Spurs fans that qualifies them? |
Oh dear. This proves that I'm dead. Ah well. | | | |
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