| Delap to Arsenal ? 20:57 - May 7 with 14252 views | Pippin1970 |
Approaching Ipswich representatives to sign, next to experienced striker. Not sure how true. [Post edited 7 May 21:19]
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| Delap to Arsenal ? on 15:04 - May 9 with 1519 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 14:46 - May 9 by darkhorse28 |
Conjecture as you say, but at the point you commercially only see the maximum upside as £30 million, that’s not an asset you value enough to have lots of clauses inserted for future protection either.
If you did, you’d have a higher value. And it’s likely we could have protected ourselves much better by moving some of the benefits for Loam forward to when he signed.
Any player and agent would take a slightly bigger salary, and or signing fee, to mitigate higher exit clauses, a bird in the hand etc.
And I don’t think it will be us trying to get in the way of the deal.
The complete opposite. As the only asset we can likely sell quickly, I would think PSR will have us trying to get the deal through before year end (end of June).
We have a £150 million net spend in the books for a single year…, if we can reduce that, even by £15 million, I suspect we will do all we can to make it happen.
The elements that aren’t conjecture, that are in the public domain, look horrific commercially.
If it is £30 million, and there are lots of additional clauses protecting us, I think Mark would say…, because there’s no commercial harm to any deal.
This is a man that couldn’t wait to tell us our manager is paid £5 million a year basic, and is the 5th best paid manager in the prem.
When he thinks he’s smashed it out the park, he’d tell you his own PIN number for some validation…, so his silence says everything in this deal.
It’s most likely very poir, and we need to learn very quickly:
Only clubs that get value buying and selling can be successful longer term, and we had a shocking summer in that front, in my opinion. |
Why do you keep repeating the same falsehoods. The manager is not the 5th highest paid in the PL (by a long shot), and neither was it £150M on players. I've posted links to the accurate figures for you, yet you ignore independent facts.
If you want to have a stick to hit the club with, you need a credible stick.
Your stick gives you no credibility. | | | |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 15:08 - May 9 with 1505 views | itfcjoe |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 15:00 - May 9 by Herbivore |
I'm not sure how many times PSR and how transfer fees are recorded needs to be explained to you but you still don't seem to get it. We don't have £150m of transfer spend on our books for 2024/25 as transfer fees are amortised over the length of contract up to 5 years. That means the spend on our books for this year will be more like £30m to £40m. There is nothing to suggest w need to panic sell anyone before June in order to comply with PSR for this season. The rest of this is just hot air, which is fine, but at least get your facts straight. |
I tried to work it out and is about £27m on the books for this season [and next as things stand]
Aro Muric - £8m - 4yr - £2m/yr
Alex Palmer - £2m - 4yr - £500k/yr
Connor Townsend - £500k - 2yr - £250k/yr
Jacob Greaves - £15m - 5yr - £3m/yr
Dara O'Shea - £12m - 5yr - £2.4m/yr
Liam Delap - £15m - 5yr - £3m/yr
Omari Hutchinson - £22m - 5yr - £4.4m/yr
Chieo Ogbene - £8m - 4yr - £2m/yr
Sam Szmodics - £9m - 4yr - £2.25m/yr
Jaden Philogene - £20m - 5yr - £4m/yr
Jack Clarke - £15m - 5yr - £3m/yr
Obviously some of them are part years and full years so it's far from exact but gives an idea |  |
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| Delap to Arsenal ? on 15:21 - May 9 with 1449 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 15:08 - May 9 by itfcjoe |
I tried to work it out and is about £27m on the books for this season [and next as things stand]
Aro Muric - £8m - 4yr - £2m/yr
Alex Palmer - £2m - 4yr - £500k/yr
Connor Townsend - £500k - 2yr - £250k/yr
Jacob Greaves - £15m - 5yr - £3m/yr
Dara O'Shea - £12m - 5yr - £2.4m/yr
Liam Delap - £15m - 5yr - £3m/yr
Omari Hutchinson - £22m - 5yr - £4.4m/yr
Chieo Ogbene - £8m - 4yr - £2m/yr
Sam Szmodics - £9m - 4yr - £2.25m/yr
Jaden Philogene - £20m - 5yr - £4m/yr
Jack Clarke - £15m - 5yr - £3m/yr
Obviously some of them are part years and full years so it's far from exact but gives an idea |
This is inline with my calculations - I was a little closer to £30m. For example, Jaden's contract was 4 1/2 years. | | | |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:44 - May 16 with 1105 views | darkhorse28 |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 09:37 - May 8 by thebooks |
I don’t think the Hutchinson comparison is quite right. Omari came off a season where he was probably the best attacking midfielder in the Championship. Delap did relatively little at Hull – hence his relatively low cost.
I would imagine a minimum release clause is standard for any player. We paid £15m – doubling the money in a year probably seemed fair enough, and the thinking was probably that he wouldn’t have quite a good a season as he has had. It now seems bad because we’ve turned him into a world class striker.
You don’t become Brighton off the pitch in two seasons from an under-invested League One team.
I expect the plan was to assemble a squad of high potential players, take a punt on staying up and keep them should we get relegated, making us a strong Champ team. That all worked as planned, except with one of them showing even more potential and actual talent. |
Maybe. Bournemouth signed Huijsen for £12 million and had a £50 million release. And he’s a defender. We definitely left a huge chunk of change in the table. If he’s £15 million and not had a great season with injuries etc, as you rightly point out, then how hard is it to get him to agree to a higher release, players have all the power anyway, and we would have been protected.
Bournemouth, Brighton, Brentford, Fulham etc etc being much commercially better than us, is in my opinion why we are light years behind.
And when you’re suddenly one of the richest clubs in world football, and can spend £160 million on players, why can’t you recruit the off the field exec talent you need? You can grow organically, or you can buy the networks, connections and global reach.., the same as developing players and signing them.
My worry is the reason we have t is because Ashton isn’t the sort to bring in more talented people than him, and he’s nowhere close to those levels.., measurably.
We really need to decide if we want to be at that level.
Wolves were worse than us under O’Neil, they had no belief in the group, then they accessed their global reach, and signed a wild class manager with a world class pedigree, it’s a huge difference in where we are at.
Forest went and signed Edu, world class talent ID, I’m sorry, but they were below us in the championship, and needing to beat us to stay up last game of the season, a blink of an eye ago.
We have that wealth, and I think the owners can match that ambition too…, they didn’t build organically, they signed one of the best talent ID execs, with a global reputation, and just look at the result.
Do we honestly think Ashton is at that level, or suddenly will be some day soon?
If he was elite, he’d happily know and let go of what he’s not at that level at, and bring in the right people.., I honestly don’t see that changing.
If we go back up, we’ll have this exact conversation again 12 months later.., the prem is so far ahead now, being really good is miles off, it’s world class or you’re light years away.
We need to wake up to that. | | | |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:56 - May 16 with 1025 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:44 - May 16 by darkhorse28 |
Maybe. Bournemouth signed Huijsen for £12 million and had a £50 million release. And he’s a defender. We definitely left a huge chunk of change in the table. If he’s £15 million and not had a great season with injuries etc, as you rightly point out, then how hard is it to get him to agree to a higher release, players have all the power anyway, and we would have been protected.
Bournemouth, Brighton, Brentford, Fulham etc etc being much commercially better than us, is in my opinion why we are light years behind.
And when you’re suddenly one of the richest clubs in world football, and can spend £160 million on players, why can’t you recruit the off the field exec talent you need? You can grow organically, or you can buy the networks, connections and global reach.., the same as developing players and signing them.
My worry is the reason we have t is because Ashton isn’t the sort to bring in more talented people than him, and he’s nowhere close to those levels.., measurably.
We really need to decide if we want to be at that level.
Wolves were worse than us under O’Neil, they had no belief in the group, then they accessed their global reach, and signed a wild class manager with a world class pedigree, it’s a huge difference in where we are at.
Forest went and signed Edu, world class talent ID, I’m sorry, but they were below us in the championship, and needing to beat us to stay up last game of the season, a blink of an eye ago.
We have that wealth, and I think the owners can match that ambition too…, they didn’t build organically, they signed one of the best talent ID execs, with a global reputation, and just look at the result.
Do we honestly think Ashton is at that level, or suddenly will be some day soon?
If he was elite, he’d happily know and let go of what he’s not at that level at, and bring in the right people.., I honestly don’t see that changing.
If we go back up, we’ll have this exact conversation again 12 months later.., the prem is so far ahead now, being really good is miles off, it’s world class or you’re light years away.
We need to wake up to that. |
"how hard is it to get him to agree to a higher release?"
Probably very hard, given he was also being courted by Saints and was actually in their offices.
As for the stuff about Ashton - I'm sure there are some things he could've done better, but come on, give the guy a break. Overall he's done incredibly since coming in.
You seem to be forgetting we came up from League 1. You don't turn your whole club into world class level overnight. Just be patient IMO. We got promoted to the Prem ahead of schedule and it was always going to be a struggle whoever was in charge. Rome wasn't built in a day. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Delap to Arsenal ? on 17:58 - May 16 with 728 views | Herbivore |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:44 - May 16 by darkhorse28 |
Maybe. Bournemouth signed Huijsen for £12 million and had a £50 million release. And he’s a defender. We definitely left a huge chunk of change in the table. If he’s £15 million and not had a great season with injuries etc, as you rightly point out, then how hard is it to get him to agree to a higher release, players have all the power anyway, and we would have been protected.
Bournemouth, Brighton, Brentford, Fulham etc etc being much commercially better than us, is in my opinion why we are light years behind.
And when you’re suddenly one of the richest clubs in world football, and can spend £160 million on players, why can’t you recruit the off the field exec talent you need? You can grow organically, or you can buy the networks, connections and global reach.., the same as developing players and signing them.
My worry is the reason we have t is because Ashton isn’t the sort to bring in more talented people than him, and he’s nowhere close to those levels.., measurably.
We really need to decide if we want to be at that level.
Wolves were worse than us under O’Neil, they had no belief in the group, then they accessed their global reach, and signed a wild class manager with a world class pedigree, it’s a huge difference in where we are at.
Forest went and signed Edu, world class talent ID, I’m sorry, but they were below us in the championship, and needing to beat us to stay up last game of the season, a blink of an eye ago.
We have that wealth, and I think the owners can match that ambition too…, they didn’t build organically, they signed one of the best talent ID execs, with a global reputation, and just look at the result.
Do we honestly think Ashton is at that level, or suddenly will be some day soon?
If he was elite, he’d happily know and let go of what he’s not at that level at, and bring in the right people.., I honestly don’t see that changing.
If we go back up, we’ll have this exact conversation again 12 months later.., the prem is so far ahead now, being really good is miles off, it’s world class or you’re light years away.
We need to wake up to that. |
Our transfer spend goes up £10m every time you post. |  |
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| Delap to Arsenal ? on 18:45 - May 16 with 696 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 17:58 - May 16 by Herbivore |
Our transfer spend goes up £10m every time you post. |
Because he leaves so much time between his posts (often a week plus), I’m sure he thinks we’ll have forgotten the sh1t he posted before.
Maybe he’s not allowed out of his padded birdcage that often. | | | |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:11 - May 17 with 514 views | darkhorse28 |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:56 - May 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"how hard is it to get him to agree to a higher release?"
Probably very hard, given he was also being courted by Saints and was actually in their offices.
As for the stuff about Ashton - I'm sure there are some things he could've done better, but come on, give the guy a break. Overall he's done incredibly since coming in.
You seem to be forgetting we came up from League 1. You don't turn your whole club into world class level overnight. Just be patient IMO. We got promoted to the Prem ahead of schedule and it was always going to be a struggle whoever was in charge. Rome wasn't built in a day. |
Agree totally…, but I don’t think it is as ever been a league one club, that’s not the level we’ve ever played at, but you’re right, that is what Ashton walked in to. We were one of the richest clubs in Europe, and my fear is there are people stopping us recruiting best in class, we really were in a much better position than Forest VERY recently…, I do think we had an opportunity and possibly still do to recruit best in class for talent ID etc
Surely if we’ve learnt one thing it’s that Ashton needs better people in those areas, and that means bringing them in.., Edu to Forest shows SO much ambition…, I love what they’re doing, pure conviction, elite mentality.
The Delap deal, as you say, is actually a good deal, for an EFL club, and my fear is that we had exactly an EFL mentality when we did that deal. £15 million profit, double your money in 12 months.., yet it’s not even peanuts at this level. Bournemouth took a 12 million player, younger, less experienced, in a less valuable area of the pitch and said ‘this is the biggest league in the world’ if he has ONE good season, he’s worth £50 million. And the back themselves, they are elite in their mentality and commercials.
If Delap had one good season he was always going to be worth £70 million plus, an English forward, at his age, are rocking horse drippings…, and he was always signing.., when Ed put the call in., apparently. | | | |
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| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:17 - May 17 with 482 views | Herbivore |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:11 - May 17 by darkhorse28 |
Agree totally…, but I don’t think it is as ever been a league one club, that’s not the level we’ve ever played at, but you’re right, that is what Ashton walked in to. We were one of the richest clubs in Europe, and my fear is there are people stopping us recruiting best in class, we really were in a much better position than Forest VERY recently…, I do think we had an opportunity and possibly still do to recruit best in class for talent ID etc
Surely if we’ve learnt one thing it’s that Ashton needs better people in those areas, and that means bringing them in.., Edu to Forest shows SO much ambition…, I love what they’re doing, pure conviction, elite mentality.
The Delap deal, as you say, is actually a good deal, for an EFL club, and my fear is that we had exactly an EFL mentality when we did that deal. £15 million profit, double your money in 12 months.., yet it’s not even peanuts at this level. Bournemouth took a 12 million player, younger, less experienced, in a less valuable area of the pitch and said ‘this is the biggest league in the world’ if he has ONE good season, he’s worth £50 million. And the back themselves, they are elite in their mentality and commercials.
If Delap had one good season he was always going to be worth £70 million plus, an English forward, at his age, are rocking horse drippings…, and he was always signing.., when Ed put the call in., apparently. |
Do you honestly think Delap would have signed if we'd demanded a RELEGATION release clause of £50m plus? Not a chance. The Bournemouth deal is apples and oranges, Huijsen's release clause may be higher but Bournemouth haven't just suffered relegation. If we'd not gone down, we wouldn't be looking at losing Delap for £30m. If Bournemouth had gone down, I suspect they'd be getting less of a fee for Huijsen. [Post edited 17 May 10:21]
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| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:20 - May 17 with 478 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:11 - May 17 by darkhorse28 |
Agree totally…, but I don’t think it is as ever been a league one club, that’s not the level we’ve ever played at, but you’re right, that is what Ashton walked in to. We were one of the richest clubs in Europe, and my fear is there are people stopping us recruiting best in class, we really were in a much better position than Forest VERY recently…, I do think we had an opportunity and possibly still do to recruit best in class for talent ID etc
Surely if we’ve learnt one thing it’s that Ashton needs better people in those areas, and that means bringing them in.., Edu to Forest shows SO much ambition…, I love what they’re doing, pure conviction, elite mentality.
The Delap deal, as you say, is actually a good deal, for an EFL club, and my fear is that we had exactly an EFL mentality when we did that deal. £15 million profit, double your money in 12 months.., yet it’s not even peanuts at this level. Bournemouth took a 12 million player, younger, less experienced, in a less valuable area of the pitch and said ‘this is the biggest league in the world’ if he has ONE good season, he’s worth £50 million. And the back themselves, they are elite in their mentality and commercials.
If Delap had one good season he was always going to be worth £70 million plus, an English forward, at his age, are rocking horse drippings…, and he was always signing.., when Ed put the call in., apparently. |
What part of "he was already in Saints' offices" are you struggling with? If we hadn't agreed to that release clause then perhaps Southampton would. We don't know for sure, but you can't say Ashton had his pants pulled down when he might've had no choice.
We were a League 1 club for 4 years. And probably would've stayed there for several more (or worse) if Evans had stayed. Saying "that’s not the level we’ve ever played at" is just not true and rewriting history.
Ashton is getting better people in for recruitment, particularly setting up a foreign scouting network that Evans had neglected for years and years. That will take time to bear fruit. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:21 - May 17 with 477 views | NedPlimpton |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:11 - May 17 by darkhorse28 |
Agree totally…, but I don’t think it is as ever been a league one club, that’s not the level we’ve ever played at, but you’re right, that is what Ashton walked in to. We were one of the richest clubs in Europe, and my fear is there are people stopping us recruiting best in class, we really were in a much better position than Forest VERY recently…, I do think we had an opportunity and possibly still do to recruit best in class for talent ID etc
Surely if we’ve learnt one thing it’s that Ashton needs better people in those areas, and that means bringing them in.., Edu to Forest shows SO much ambition…, I love what they’re doing, pure conviction, elite mentality.
The Delap deal, as you say, is actually a good deal, for an EFL club, and my fear is that we had exactly an EFL mentality when we did that deal. £15 million profit, double your money in 12 months.., yet it’s not even peanuts at this level. Bournemouth took a 12 million player, younger, less experienced, in a less valuable area of the pitch and said ‘this is the biggest league in the world’ if he has ONE good season, he’s worth £50 million. And the back themselves, they are elite in their mentality and commercials.
If Delap had one good season he was always going to be worth £70 million plus, an English forward, at his age, are rocking horse drippings…, and he was always signing.., when Ed put the call in., apparently. |
Ashton: "fine Liam, we'll put in a £30m release clause if it means you'll join us over Southampton"
Liam: "ah don't worry, I've actually just spoken to Ed Sheeran, so no need for a release clause"
Lol |  | | |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:25 - May 17 with 455 views | darkhorse28 |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 15:08 - May 9 by itfcjoe |
I tried to work it out and is about £27m on the books for this season [and next as things stand]
Aro Muric - £8m - 4yr - £2m/yr
Alex Palmer - £2m - 4yr - £500k/yr
Connor Townsend - £500k - 2yr - £250k/yr
Jacob Greaves - £15m - 5yr - £3m/yr
Dara O'Shea - £12m - 5yr - £2.4m/yr
Liam Delap - £15m - 5yr - £3m/yr
Omari Hutchinson - £22m - 5yr - £4.4m/yr
Chieo Ogbene - £8m - 4yr - £2m/yr
Sam Szmodics - £9m - 4yr - £2.25m/yr
Jaden Philogene - £20m - 5yr - £4m/yr
Jack Clarke - £15m - 5yr - £3m/yr
Obviously some of them are part years and full years so it's far from exact but gives an idea |
You’re probably right that most or all are amortised over their full contracts.., but it’s the bit where you suggest it’s a good thing that worries me. If we stay up then yes, if it’s the only way to stay within PSR then maybe (although some teams have proven the value of not staying within the rules).
The liability remains the same. Only as a championship club, we won’t have the revenue to service them.
If we don’t go back up, and quickly, it’s a huge problem. We could realistically be selling some of those players for far less than the liability, and that’s a huge risk.
If we’d stayed up and got that extra gear parachute revenue, it would have been massive.
It’s clear that what was sold to the owners, to pay that in fees, and to lay McKenna his salary, relegation wasn’t seen as a huge probability.
On KM’s salary, it’s reported as £5 million, £6 million, £3 million.., every report said he’s one of the best paid in the division…, Slot is reportedly in £6.2 million basic. So it’s a huge salary at our level, based on achievements and experience, and even at the lower levels, he is still one of the best paid managers in Europe.
We still have the liabilities, and we do need to pay the piper.
I just think McKenna used the media guide to his advantage, and fair play to him, and Ashton sadly I think just actually believed it…, that’s not to belittle either of their achievements since they arrived either, which have been fantastic.
The same media hype made Schumacher and Edwards also the best young managers in football too.., it’s what the media do.., I’d be fascinated to know what the owners were sold last summer.
You don’t put £150 million liabilities on the books for one seasons parachute money, if you think there’s even a 50% chance, it would be reckless.
Fingers crossed.., we have a good young coach, a good group, one or two buys if business and who knows.., Flynn would change everything…, I just hope if we get another opportunity the off the field bums in seats are elite .., Forest signed Edu.., that’s ambition, we were letting them beat us 3-0 to stay in the championship a minute ago, we need to match that ambition, and not have the EFL mentality, that £15 million profit on a player is ‘brilliant’ .., in the EFL it is.., in the EPL it’s someone’s boot laces.., levels I guess. | | | |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:32 - May 17 with 417 views | Broadbent23 |
Makes sense with the Arteta connection. Arteta knows his journey from Man City. Likely to be a squad member but a good stepping stone to be England's no 9. | | | |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:40 - May 17 with 388 views | Denny32 |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:32 - May 17 by Broadbent23 |
Makes sense with the Arteta connection. Arteta knows his journey from Man City. Likely to be a squad member but a good stepping stone to be England's no 9. |
We probably won't miss delap in the championship as he's too good for it ,and secondly we do have enough of firepower to get us back up without him..but its the Premier league we would miss him most | | | |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 13:26 - May 17 with 291 views | darkhorse28 |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 18:45 - May 16 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Because he leaves so much time between his posts (often a week plus), I’m sure he thinks we’ll have forgotten the sh1t he posted before.
Maybe he’s not allowed out of his padded birdcage that often. |
Bit rude.bit also flattered you missed me. Blush. [Post edited 17 May 13:55]
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| Delap to Arsenal ? on 13:41 - May 17 with 268 views | darkhorse28 |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:17 - May 17 by Herbivore |
Do you honestly think Delap would have signed if we'd demanded a RELEGATION release clause of £50m plus? Not a chance. The Bournemouth deal is apples and oranges, Huijsen's release clause may be higher but Bournemouth haven't just suffered relegation. If we'd not gone down, we wouldn't be looking at losing Delap for £30m. If Bournemouth had gone down, I suspect they'd be getting less of a fee for Huijsen. [Post edited 17 May 10:21]
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Why wouldn’t a player who’s never played at this level, sign a £50 million release?
It’s not a hard sell. You’re playing in the biggest league in the world, one good season you’re worth double that fee, and if we genuinely valued him has having that potential, we’d move the value of the deal to slightly higher wages etc to get the deal done.
The reason we didn’t, is because we didn’t value him at that level, or his progress to be anywhere near that level.
If we had. We wouldn’t be having this conversation…, you can get him and his agents to sign anything if it’s structured in their interests.
We approached it with an EFL mentality, that if we double our money, that’s a good deal, and it is a good deal. He’d never played at this level, he actually has a poor injury record too, and he’s never been prolific either.
I can see why we didn’t see the biggest upside.
It’s just that Bournemouth, Brentford, Fulham, Brighton…, they have an EPl mindset. It’s elite, they know their value, and they know how to squeeze the best possible value from their assets.
Southampton were the other club linked, it was us or them..,, if your saying he saw them as being less likely to be relegated, then that’s obviously not the case.
We were in the driving seat.., we just didn’t think he’d develop like he has, and that’s poor commercial management.
Long term the clubs that thrive are the ones like Bournemouth who get the best value and you’re right that they might not even have relegation release clauses at all.., potentially with two years parachute, it’s less acute for them, and that’s poor commercial is a good point,., but we 100% left a lot of money on the table.., we can just burry our head in the sand, and we will keep getting the same results…, which is we are a really good EFL club, well run, well coached, but we are miles off clubs that we CAN compete with, if we match their skill and recruitment off the pitch.
I just think we can compete at that level of commercials, but we need better commercials.., you can’t believe we got good value for our £150 million. I’m genuinely most excited to see Humphrey’s get some game time next season, he might be better than any of them long term. | | | |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 13:53 - May 17 with 239 views | darkhorse28 |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:20 - May 17 by The_Flashing_Smile |
What part of "he was already in Saints' offices" are you struggling with? If we hadn't agreed to that release clause then perhaps Southampton would. We don't know for sure, but you can't say Ashton had his pants pulled down when he might've had no choice.
We were a League 1 club for 4 years. And probably would've stayed there for several more (or worse) if Evans had stayed. Saying "that’s not the level we’ve ever played at" is just not true and rewriting history.
Ashton is getting better people in for recruitment, particularly setting up a foreign scouting network that Evans had neglected for years and years. That will take time to bear fruit. |
We aren’t a league one club, saying we are is re-writing history. We measurably aren’t, and had a huge budget at that level.
Agree totally we weren’t in amazing shape, but also disagree we were a shambles. Cook left us with Morsy, Chaplin, Walton, and a squad that had been thrown together.., they’d had six months to gel when KM arrived, and he did brilliantly to really get the group together, but pretending the process started when he arrived is nonsense.
Surely Chaplin and Sam are two of our best signings in a decade? Would we have achieved either promotion without their work rate, leadership, energy, and commitment? Both the heartbeats of our success for me.., both wouldn’t be here without Cookie…, Sam dropped down a division to play for Paul.
We have no right to be an EPL club, that’s true, but we are big enough to have the ambition to be above many established EPL clubs…, but even four seasons does not make us a league one club with league one mentality and ambition…, it breaks my heart that Evans ultimately left so many fans thinking that way.., we had world footballer of the year Finidi playing for us not long ago…, and some fans seem to have been conditioned to thinking draws at home to Fleetwood, Forest Green, Morecambe etc is ‘ok’ …, where’s our ambition?
Forest were also league one recently, almost again VERY recently, and they spent a similar amount to us on players, and signed one of the best talent ID recruitment experts in world football, from Arsenal .., we are allowed to have ambition.., to want to be the best version of ourselves.., to dream.., to play in Europe again.., it is ok to want those things and with one of the biggest spends in football, to see that vision in the medium term..; we can visit Milan again.., it is allowed. | | | |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 14:04 - May 17 with 213 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 13:26 - May 17 by darkhorse28 |
Bit rude.bit also flattered you missed me. Blush. [Post edited 17 May 13:55]
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No more rude than you ignoring where you've been corrected in the past (with reference), and continue to post your (and I'll be charitable) 'misunderstandings'.
I'm not going to waste my time posting too long a missive, as you seem to have a tendency to ignore most of what is said to correct you in the past. So, briefly :
The liability remains the same. Only as a championship club, we won’t have the revenue to service them.
You're focusing only on the liabilities without considering the (significant) assets these investments bring.
If we’d stayed up and got that extra gear parachute revenue, it would have been massive.
What has this got to do with anything right now? The loss of a parachute payment only comes into play if we still haven't gained promotion by 27/28. No need to plan for that eventuality for another 12-24m i.e. if we don't bounce straight back.
On KM’s salary, it’s reported as £5 million, £6 million, £3 million.., every report said he’s one of the best paid in the division…,
He's reportedly 13 out of 17 on the table of best paid PL managers. 5 are unknown, so he'd probably be even lower than 13. References have been given before - don't get taken in by the media headlines of a year ago, do some research. They love sensational headlines, that take in gullible readers.
You don’t put £150 million liabilities on the books for one seasons parachute money, if you think there’s even a 50% chance, it would be reckless.
You seem to have no understanding of the differences between PSR losses, club losses, liabilities vs assets, company solvency metrics, etc. Town's annual accounts are amongst the most transparent in the industry, and provide good insight of the fiscal responsibility being practiced. | | | |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 14:12 - May 17 with 198 views | darkhorse28 |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 10:21 - May 17 by NedPlimpton |
Ashton: "fine Liam, we'll put in a £30m release clause if it means you'll join us over Southampton"
Liam: "ah don't worry, I've actually just spoken to Ed Sheeran, so no need for a release clause"
Lol |
lol never under estimate the Ed factor..,, signing on fees, wages, goal bonuses, appearance money, how much we’re spending on the squad.., and not living in Southampton who were significantly more likely to be relegated probably bigger factors in the contract.
A bird in the hand etc
There is zero chance Southampton, almost certain to be relegated, were spending £15 million plus, to have a release lower than £30 million.
That’s not likely is it, makes worse commercial sense than even our deal.
I get wanting to defend Ashton. Two great seasons, some great decisions, KM being the best, but you are allowed to like him, and still accept he made a right mess of this deal (in all probability).
Neither of us n kw the details.., you might be 100% right, who knows.., but based on what we do know, it’s probable we could have got a lot more from the deal.
If that’s true, it’s the one area, where if we don’t improve, we can’t ever be established at this level, it’s that important, that’s the only point really.., Delap deal doesn’t really matter.
Getting value in deals, that’s defines clubs at this level.
We need to be leveraging what is and was a generational level of investment…, what a chance to make a statement and move the club forwards, I’m sure we all want that.
We can play in Europe.., it is allowed.., I sometimes think just because Ashton is clearly a massive leap forward from Evans giving his cronies the job, that people think this is what elite looks like.
It’s a brutal level, and you need to be world class, that’s the goal, and as brutal as it is, moving forwards has to include change if and when required.
Will be a fascinating 12 months for us coming up.., let’s see what it brings, progress on and off the pitch and some season ticket availability hopefully. | | | |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 14:27 - May 17 with 153 views | Horsham |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 14:12 - May 17 by darkhorse28 |
lol never under estimate the Ed factor..,, signing on fees, wages, goal bonuses, appearance money, how much we’re spending on the squad.., and not living in Southampton who were significantly more likely to be relegated probably bigger factors in the contract.
A bird in the hand etc
There is zero chance Southampton, almost certain to be relegated, were spending £15 million plus, to have a release lower than £30 million.
That’s not likely is it, makes worse commercial sense than even our deal.
I get wanting to defend Ashton. Two great seasons, some great decisions, KM being the best, but you are allowed to like him, and still accept he made a right mess of this deal (in all probability).
Neither of us n kw the details.., you might be 100% right, who knows.., but based on what we do know, it’s probable we could have got a lot more from the deal.
If that’s true, it’s the one area, where if we don’t improve, we can’t ever be established at this level, it’s that important, that’s the only point really.., Delap deal doesn’t really matter.
Getting value in deals, that’s defines clubs at this level.
We need to be leveraging what is and was a generational level of investment…, what a chance to make a statement and move the club forwards, I’m sure we all want that.
We can play in Europe.., it is allowed.., I sometimes think just because Ashton is clearly a massive leap forward from Evans giving his cronies the job, that people think this is what elite looks like.
It’s a brutal level, and you need to be world class, that’s the goal, and as brutal as it is, moving forwards has to include change if and when required.
Will be a fascinating 12 months for us coming up.., let’s see what it brings, progress on and off the pitch and some season ticket availability hopefully. |
It was reported at the time that Ipswich matched the terms Southampton offered Delap so I’d expect it’s highly likely Saints agreed the same release terms as us. Think you’re barking up the wrong tree. |  | | |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 14:40 - May 17 with 141 views | Herbivore |
| Delap to Arsenal ? on 13:41 - May 17 by darkhorse28 |
Why wouldn’t a player who’s never played at this level, sign a £50 million release?
It’s not a hard sell. You’re playing in the biggest league in the world, one good season you’re worth double that fee, and if we genuinely valued him has having that potential, we’d move the value of the deal to slightly higher wages etc to get the deal done.
The reason we didn’t, is because we didn’t value him at that level, or his progress to be anywhere near that level.
If we had. We wouldn’t be having this conversation…, you can get him and his agents to sign anything if it’s structured in their interests.
We approached it with an EFL mentality, that if we double our money, that’s a good deal, and it is a good deal. He’d never played at this level, he actually has a poor injury record too, and he’s never been prolific either.
I can see why we didn’t see the biggest upside.
It’s just that Bournemouth, Brentford, Fulham, Brighton…, they have an EPl mindset. It’s elite, they know their value, and they know how to squeeze the best possible value from their assets.
Southampton were the other club linked, it was us or them..,, if your saying he saw them as being less likely to be relegated, then that’s obviously not the case.
We were in the driving seat.., we just didn’t think he’d develop like he has, and that’s poor commercial management.
Long term the clubs that thrive are the ones like Bournemouth who get the best value and you’re right that they might not even have relegation release clauses at all.., potentially with two years parachute, it’s less acute for them, and that’s poor commercial is a good point,., but we 100% left a lot of money on the table.., we can just burry our head in the sand, and we will keep getting the same results…, which is we are a really good EFL club, well run, well coached, but we are miles off clubs that we CAN compete with, if we match their skill and recruitment off the pitch.
I just think we can compete at that level of commercials, but we need better commercials.., you can’t believe we got good value for our £150 million. I’m genuinely most excited to see Humphrey’s get some game time next season, he might be better than any of them long term. |
I think you're deluded. | |
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