| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 21:14 - May 14 with 512 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Might you have been in favour of stringing him up 38 years ago? |  |
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| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 21:17 - May 14 with 513 views | bluelagos |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 21:14 - May 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Might you have been in favour of stringing him up 38 years ago? |
Anyone who supports the death penalty is either unaware of multiple miscarriages of justice, or just doesn't give a fck if the state executes innocent people... |  |
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| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 21:42 - May 14 with 483 views | bournemouthblue |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 11:35 - May 14 by naa |
His sentence had a minimum term of 19 years. So, despite having a dodgy confession, which he rescinded, very dodgy physical evidence and nothing else they kept him in for another 19 years for the sake of it. [Post edited 14 May 11:36]
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In part because he never admitted guilt, funny that |  |
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| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 21:48 - May 14 with 470 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 21:42 - May 14 by bournemouthblue |
In part because he never admitted guilt, funny that |
His conviction was in part because he admitted his guilt.
His lack of parole was down to not admitting his guilt.
A bit crass really, isn't it? |  |
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| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 22:17 - May 14 with 450 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 21:11 - May 14 by bluelagos |
So you think it was an accidental dishonest act? The police accidentally got a confession from a special needs guy who had done nothing wrong?
The obvious reason why they would have done it is because they were more concerned with "getting a result" than actually ensuring they got the right person.
See countless other cases from 1980s UK policing - who were quite content fitting up innocent people. The parallels with Stefan Kiszko are quite stark. |
Don't be silly. You cannot just assume dishonesty.
No one doubts that people can be dishonest, but there is no proper basis to say that this was a situation where someone quite purposely went out to get an person convicted whilst believing they were innocent.
Do bear in mind that the evidence was enough to persuade a jury too.
The instant resort to "the police were dishonest" simply makes no sense here. You should not put down to inexplicable random malice, what could be explained by confirmaiton bias, groupthink, mistakes, pressures of work etc. |  | | |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 22:29 - May 14 with 442 views | bluelagos |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 22:17 - May 14 by redrickstuhaart |
Don't be silly. You cannot just assume dishonesty.
No one doubts that people can be dishonest, but there is no proper basis to say that this was a situation where someone quite purposely went out to get an person convicted whilst believing they were innocent.
Do bear in mind that the evidence was enough to persuade a jury too.
The instant resort to "the police were dishonest" simply makes no sense here. You should not put down to inexplicable random malice, what could be explained by confirmaiton bias, groupthink, mistakes, pressures of work etc. |
I guess my experience of wholesale dishonesty by 100s of 1980s police may have coloured my view - fair point.
There is always the odd good apple in a cart of rotten ones. But you're right - the copper who took a confession from an innocent man, who failed to test his evidence to ensure his confession was genuine, who failed to find the actual killer - may have done all that with a sense of integrity and honesty that we expect of our police.
Or he might just have been a piece of sht who didn't give a fck for the fact that an innocent man was going to jail. Given the passage of time, we'll probably never know.
But I'll go with my view - which is backed up by personal experience of 1980s police being dishonest and behaving without an ounce of integrity. | |
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| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 10:45 - May 15 with 331 views | blueasfook |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 21:14 - May 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Might you have been in favour of stringing him up 38 years ago? |
No, I am not an advocate of the death penalty and have stated this several times whenever it's discussed. Why would you think I would be? |  |
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| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 11:33 - May 15 with 289 views | MattinLondon |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 19:35 - May 14 by bluelagos |
Only thing that surprised me is that it was Merseyside and not West Midlands plod. In the mid 80s the West Midlands Serious Crime squad were a law unto themselves. Have a google of Stanley Beechey. |
Blimey, I had a look at the West Mid Serious Crime Squad. I knew they were corrupt but had no idea that it was so prolific.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_failed_and_overturned_convictions_involv |  | | |
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| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 11:41 - May 15 with 279 views | bluelagos |
I'm sure one of the police fan boys will be along soon to tell us he was just doing his job and we shouldn't assume he was a wrongun - he was after all never convicted of a crime and how was he to know the confessions he got by beating the sht out of people were not all valid and above board. [Post edited 15 May 11:49]
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| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 11:49 - May 15 with 257 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 11:41 - May 15 by bluelagos |
I'm sure one of the police fan boys will be along soon to tell us he was just doing his job and we shouldn't assume he was a wrongun - he was after all never convicted of a crime and how was he to know the confessions he got by beating the sht out of people were not all valid and above board. [Post edited 15 May 11:49]
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I feel you have difficulty being impartial in any discussions involving the police, which is not a dig - it's understandable given what you went through with Hillsborough. But I really don't think there are any "police fan boys" on here. And not all police officers should be tarred with the same brush, even if they happened to have been around in the 80s when things were worse. I'm sure most are decent and got into policing for the right reasons. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 11:54 - May 15 with 253 views | bluelagos |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 11:49 - May 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I feel you have difficulty being impartial in any discussions involving the police, which is not a dig - it's understandable given what you went through with Hillsborough. But I really don't think there are any "police fan boys" on here. And not all police officers should be tarred with the same brush, even if they happened to have been around in the 80s when things were worse. I'm sure most are decent and got into policing for the right reasons. |
I agree with your last sentence Dollers.
Question is then why would it be normalised to lie and be dishonest to protect your colleagues who do something wrong? The culture of cover up is deeply embedded.
Just ask yourself how it was the police lied so emphatically about the circumstances of their shooting of JC De Menezes. Or Mark Duggan? Or when they lied about the circumstances of the death of Ian Thomlinson?
My bias (or otherwise) doesn't explain the culture of cover up that is still part of how they act - and am yet to see much evidence of change in that respect. | |
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| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 12:14 - May 15 with 241 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 10:45 - May 15 by blueasfook |
No, I am not an advocate of the death penalty and have stated this several times whenever it's discussed. Why would you think I would be? |
The elite just sort of merge into one so I can never exactly remember who thinks what, I need an archivist! | |
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| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 12:33 - May 15 with 219 views | badadski |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 11:48 - May 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Shocking. And underlines why we shouldn't have the death penalty. |
I think living in prison for 38 years must have been considerably worse to him than if he had been put to death. Can you imagine the mental torture of knowing you are innocent but nothing you can do about it. | | | |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 13:25 - May 15 with 179 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 11:54 - May 15 by bluelagos |
I agree with your last sentence Dollers.
Question is then why would it be normalised to lie and be dishonest to protect your colleagues who do something wrong? The culture of cover up is deeply embedded.
Just ask yourself how it was the police lied so emphatically about the circumstances of their shooting of JC De Menezes. Or Mark Duggan? Or when they lied about the circumstances of the death of Ian Thomlinson?
My bias (or otherwise) doesn't explain the culture of cover up that is still part of how they act - and am yet to see much evidence of change in that respect. |
Your bias shows right here. Yes there have been some miscarriages of justice, and yes there have been lies and dishonesty to cover it up. You talk as if all police are like this. I know you don't literally say it but that's how it comes across, with any story that has the police as an element.
Unfortunately, stories where the police are central don't tend to be good ones. There's plenty of good policing goes on every day but it isn't newsworthy, so we end up getting the impression all the police are corrupt. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 13:37 - May 15 with 160 views | bluelagos |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 13:25 - May 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Your bias shows right here. Yes there have been some miscarriages of justice, and yes there have been lies and dishonesty to cover it up. You talk as if all police are like this. I know you don't literally say it but that's how it comes across, with any story that has the police as an element.
Unfortunately, stories where the police are central don't tend to be good ones. There's plenty of good policing goes on every day but it isn't newsworthy, so we end up getting the impression all the police are corrupt. |
There's a phrase "play the man, not the ball"
Have no issues being challenged on the points I make, you haven't actually challenged any of them so far...just lazily dismissed my points as you believe I am biased.
Happy to discuss any points you think are unfair or wrong, but having them dismissed out of hand doesn't feel right Dolly.
I know it's not comfortable what I post, but that doesn't make it wrong... | |
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| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 14:38 - May 15 with 103 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 13:37 - May 15 by bluelagos |
There's a phrase "play the man, not the ball"
Have no issues being challenged on the points I make, you haven't actually challenged any of them so far...just lazily dismissed my points as you believe I am biased.
Happy to discuss any points you think are unfair or wrong, but having them dismissed out of hand doesn't feel right Dolly.
I know it's not comfortable what I post, but that doesn't make it wrong... |
I haven't played you, in fact I said I totally understand your position. I also haven't "lazily dismissed" your points - I'm not getting into specifics of any cases, just making an overall observation. And I haven't said you're wrong about anything either.
I'll respectfully leave it there as my intention was not to come across as you've taken it and it's a clearly emotive topic for you. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 15:00 - May 15 with 87 views | bluelagos |
| Got to feel sorry for this poor fella on 14:38 - May 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I haven't played you, in fact I said I totally understand your position. I also haven't "lazily dismissed" your points - I'm not getting into specifics of any cases, just making an overall observation. And I haven't said you're wrong about anything either.
I'll respectfully leave it there as my intention was not to come across as you've taken it and it's a clearly emotive topic for you. |
Didn't mean to down vote that, apologies. | |
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