| Israel attack Iran 01:37 - Jun 13 with 6845 views | Perublue |
Oh dear … this is going to be a quick and large retaliation. |  |
| |  |
| Israel attack Iran on 12:11 - Jun 13 with 1692 views | positivity |
| Israel attack Iran on 11:50 - Jun 13 by baxterbasics |
Well this is the gamble for Israel. Yes this may degrade Iran's capability in the short/medium term, but simultaneously will make them more determined to achieve the ambition, and more likely to move their program underground and away from the scrutiny of international orgs.
Point made by the BBC news this morning, Iran looks at the example of Ghaddafi, who was persuaded / bribed to abandon his WMD programmes, only to end up dead in a ditch, whilst N Korea have nuked up and now nobody will even contemplate messing with them.
Iran are definitely one of the key 'baddies' in the region, they are the agitators arming and encouraging the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah, they made it clear they want Israel wiped off the map. It would be massively destabilising for the region if Iran succeeds in being nuclear armed, and would likely lead to Saudi Arabia doing the same possibly others such as Egypt. But that doesn't mean Israel has done the right thing here - big gamble, and the action itself also destabilising. For the region, the world, and for my investment portfolio! |
can't help thinking that iran will want something from russia in return for all the arms they've provided... |  |
| |
| Israel attack Iran on 12:19 - Jun 13 with 1667 views | baxterbasics |
| Israel attack Iran on 12:05 - Jun 13 by lowhouseblue |
"move their program underground and away from the scrutiny of international orgs"
the un had concluded that they had already done so. |
Good point, maybe add "even more so" |  |
| |
| Israel attack Iran on 12:46 - Jun 13 with 1588 views | bluejacko |
| Israel attack Iran on 11:52 - Jun 13 by Trequartista |
i think it would be of benefit to see a more balanced conversation about this topic, but spelling Israel wrong each time is just subtracting a little credibility from your points. [Post edited 13 Jun 11:53]
|
I just asked a simple question,are you going to answer it with your opinion or get hung up over a wrong spelling? It was after all quite a simple yes or no question. | | | |
| Israel attack Iran on 13:09 - Jun 13 with 1529 views | mellowblue |
| Israel attack Iran on 11:50 - Jun 13 by baxterbasics |
Well this is the gamble for Israel. Yes this may degrade Iran's capability in the short/medium term, but simultaneously will make them more determined to achieve the ambition, and more likely to move their program underground and away from the scrutiny of international orgs.
Point made by the BBC news this morning, Iran looks at the example of Ghaddafi, who was persuaded / bribed to abandon his WMD programmes, only to end up dead in a ditch, whilst N Korea have nuked up and now nobody will even contemplate messing with them.
Iran are definitely one of the key 'baddies' in the region, they are the agitators arming and encouraging the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah, they made it clear they want Israel wiped off the map. It would be massively destabilising for the region if Iran succeeds in being nuclear armed, and would likely lead to Saudi Arabia doing the same possibly others such as Egypt. But that doesn't mean Israel has done the right thing here - big gamble, and the action itself also destabilising. For the region, the world, and for my investment portfolio! |
Don't think Gaddafi really had much of a WMD program, as with Saddam, it might have been talked up by the West, paint them as the bogey-figure etc, but it never existed. It was the Arab spring that did for him really, it led to civil war and the West throwing their weight behind the rebels ( who were a mix of different tribes and jihadists), which toppled Gaddafi but led to a power vacuum and another civil war. Now Libya is a radicalized Muslim country akin to Afghanistan now.
Personally I think that the American should have kept the tracks rolling during the 2nd Gulf War and took out Iran. They were in place and pretty unscathed. Thought so at the time and still do. | | | |
| Israel attack Iran on 13:37 - Jun 13 with 1465 views | baxterbasics |
| Israel attack Iran on 12:11 - Jun 13 by positivity |
can't help thinking that iran will want something from russia in return for all the arms they've provided... |
Just read this regarding Russia in The Guardian live feed:
"
While the Kremlin was expected to condemn Israel’s attack on Iran, analysts believe Moscow is unlikely to rush to Tehran’s defence – despite Iran having supplied short-range ballistic missiles and drones to Russia. Although the two countries signed a major military cooperation treaty earlier this year, the deal falls short of including a mutual defence clause, and Moscow is under no obligation to provide military assistance to Iran.
“There is little Russia can or is willing to do for Iran,”, said Hanna Notte, a Berlin-based expert on Russian foreign policy
Notte added that Russia has successfully localised production of Iranian Shahed drones, reducing its reliance on Iranian battlefield support in Ukraine.
Observers in Moscow also suggested that a prolonged conflict in the Middle East could bring new potential benefits for the Kremlin – including a much-needed spike in energy prices, already seen on Friday morning, and the prospect of US military resources being diverted to the region, potentially limiting the flow of American weapons to Ukraine.
“The conclusion: a war between Israel and Iran would help Russia’s military succeed in Ukraine,” wrote pro-Kremlin commentator Sergei Markov.
" | |
| |
| Israel attack Iran on 14:00 - Jun 13 with 1410 views | positivity |
| Israel attack Iran on 13:37 - Jun 13 by baxterbasics |
Just read this regarding Russia in The Guardian live feed:
"
While the Kremlin was expected to condemn Israel’s attack on Iran, analysts believe Moscow is unlikely to rush to Tehran’s defence – despite Iran having supplied short-range ballistic missiles and drones to Russia. Although the two countries signed a major military cooperation treaty earlier this year, the deal falls short of including a mutual defence clause, and Moscow is under no obligation to provide military assistance to Iran.
“There is little Russia can or is willing to do for Iran,”, said Hanna Notte, a Berlin-based expert on Russian foreign policy
Notte added that Russia has successfully localised production of Iranian Shahed drones, reducing its reliance on Iranian battlefield support in Ukraine.
Observers in Moscow also suggested that a prolonged conflict in the Middle East could bring new potential benefits for the Kremlin – including a much-needed spike in energy prices, already seen on Friday morning, and the prospect of US military resources being diverted to the region, potentially limiting the flow of American weapons to Ukraine.
“The conclusion: a war between Israel and Iran would help Russia’s military succeed in Ukraine,” wrote pro-Kremlin commentator Sergei Markov.
" |
ta for that, interesting, wonder if there might be some technological assistance along the lines of the russia-north korea co-operation | |
| |
| Israel attack Iran on 14:11 - Jun 13 with 1390 views | Bobbychase |
| Israel attack Iran on 06:43 - Jun 13 by LegendofthePhoenix |
This isn't just some tit for tat strike. It seems that it has been a major attack. With Iran being a nuclear power, this is very, very worrying. I just don't get why the West condones Israel to be so aggressive time and time again. Defending against the attacks of last October and dismantling Hamas is one thing. But the suffering of millions of Palestinians is on a wholly different scale, it's nothing short of genocide. But now to attack Iran, this is surely a declaration of war? It seems that Israel believe that with Trump in the White House, he will back them up no matter what they do. Trump no doubt sees it as an opportuinty to clear lots of land in the Middle East so that he can develop it as a holiday resort. We have psychopathic morons as leaders in so many countries. It doesn't look good for the human race. |
A lot of Iranians will be hoping Israel's action can help topple a very corrupt, cruel and increasingly unpopular regime. Many Iranians hate the fact that Iran uses Hezbollah as a proxy army |  |
| |
| Israel attack Iran on 15:18 - Jun 13 with 1300 views | positivity |
| Israel attack Iran on 14:11 - Jun 13 by Bobbychase |
A lot of Iranians will be hoping Israel's action can help topple a very corrupt, cruel and increasingly unpopular regime. Many Iranians hate the fact that Iran uses Hezbollah as a proxy army |
that'd be good, even better if it also topples, the very corrupt, cruel and increasingly unpopular regime in israel, but i'm not counting my chickens on either side... | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Israel attack Iran on 15:42 - Jun 13 with 1263 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Israel attack Iran on 14:11 - Jun 13 by Bobbychase |
A lot of Iranians will be hoping Israel's action can help topple a very corrupt, cruel and increasingly unpopular regime. Many Iranians hate the fact that Iran uses Hezbollah as a proxy army |
And what evidence do you have to support that comment? |  | | |
| Israel attack Iran on 16:01 - Jun 13 with 1225 views | Blueschev |
| Israel attack Iran on 15:42 - Jun 13 by Cafe_Newman |
And what evidence do you have to support that comment? |
From what I have read the regime does not enjoy huge popular support, and their economy has been struggling for a long time. I'm not sure however, that disillusionment with the current rulers would translate to support for its overthrow from an outside power, especially seeing how that has worked out for their neighbours. |  | | |
| Israel attack Iran on 16:03 - Jun 13 with 1218 views | Bobbychase |
| Israel attack Iran on 15:42 - Jun 13 by Cafe_Newman |
And what evidence do you have to support that comment? |
For starters here's a Tweet by celebrity Town fan and proud Iranian Omid Djalili
| |
| |
| Israel attack Iran on 16:04 - Jun 13 with 1210 views | Bobbychase |
| Israel attack Iran on 16:01 - Jun 13 by Blueschev |
From what I have read the regime does not enjoy huge popular support, and their economy has been struggling for a long time. I'm not sure however, that disillusionment with the current rulers would translate to support for its overthrow from an outside power, especially seeing how that has worked out for their neighbours. |
I imagine a majority of Iranians hate what Israel is doing in Gaza, but would be happy if Israeli bombs and drones help remove the current regime. They tried peaceful protest, and many were detained, tortured and murdered. | |
| |
| Israel attack Iran on 16:16 - Jun 13 with 1169 views | Bobbychase |
| Israel attack Iran on 15:42 - Jun 13 by Cafe_Newman |
And what evidence do you have to support that comment? |
Have a read
https://www.iranintl.com/en/202409229026
"Many Iranians argue that Western observers sometimes fail to grasp the extent of the suffering caused by these groups, which are not just abstract entities but have actively participated in violence, oppression, and the perpetuation of authoritarian rule.
"Iranians also see hypocrisy in Islamists, who wish to impose ancient, draconian laws while simultaneously benefiting from modern technology. These groups preach ideologies that advocate practices from 1,400 years ago, such as polygamy, public flogging, and amputations. Yet, they readily use advanced communication devices, military technology, and even social media to further their cause." [Post edited 13 Jun 16:18]
| |
| |
| Israel attack Iran on 17:52 - Jun 13 with 1069 views | DJR |
| Israel attack Iran on 16:03 - Jun 13 by Bobbychase |
For starters here's a Tweet by celebrity Town fan and proud Iranian Omid Djalili
|
It really is a tragedy. This from Wikipedia.
"Iran is home to one of the world's oldest continuous major civilizations, with historical and urban settlements dating back to 4000 BC. It also has one of the oldest, richest, and most influential art heritages in the world, which encompasses many disciplines including literature, music, dance, architecture, painting, weaving, pottery, calligraphy, metalworking, embroidery, and stonemasonry."
Admittedly, there were issues with the Shah's rule, and the situation may not have been so unenlightened in rural area, but this link shows the position in 1970s' Tehran couldn't be more different than now.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-47032829
These days there is still evidence of a little bit of rebellion in the vibrant head scarfs that some women wear.
Finally, and for anyone who might not know, Iranians are not Arabs. [Post edited 13 Jun 17:53]
|  | | |
| Israel attack Iran on 18:15 - Jun 13 with 1027 views | Bobbychase |
| Israel attack Iran on 17:52 - Jun 13 by DJR |
It really is a tragedy. This from Wikipedia.
"Iran is home to one of the world's oldest continuous major civilizations, with historical and urban settlements dating back to 4000 BC. It also has one of the oldest, richest, and most influential art heritages in the world, which encompasses many disciplines including literature, music, dance, architecture, painting, weaving, pottery, calligraphy, metalworking, embroidery, and stonemasonry."
Admittedly, there were issues with the Shah's rule, and the situation may not have been so unenlightened in rural area, but this link shows the position in 1970s' Tehran couldn't be more different than now.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-47032829
These days there is still evidence of a little bit of rebellion in the vibrant head scarfs that some women wear.
Finally, and for anyone who might not know, Iranians are not Arabs. [Post edited 13 Jun 17:53]
|
Friend of mine went there travelling once, said the people were the friendliest he had ever met. A good example of why we should always differentiate between governments and those they rule. | |
| |
| Israel attack Iran on 20:17 - Jun 13 with 951 views | Perublue |
Regime change in Iran could well be one of the long overdue hopes/results of the current situations no matter how it comes or who does it. | |
| |
| Israel attack Iran on 20:37 - Jun 13 with 908 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Israel attack Iran on 17:52 - Jun 13 by DJR |
It really is a tragedy. This from Wikipedia.
"Iran is home to one of the world's oldest continuous major civilizations, with historical and urban settlements dating back to 4000 BC. It also has one of the oldest, richest, and most influential art heritages in the world, which encompasses many disciplines including literature, music, dance, architecture, painting, weaving, pottery, calligraphy, metalworking, embroidery, and stonemasonry."
Admittedly, there were issues with the Shah's rule, and the situation may not have been so unenlightened in rural area, but this link shows the position in 1970s' Tehran couldn't be more different than now.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-47032829
These days there is still evidence of a little bit of rebellion in the vibrant head scarfs that some women wear.
Finally, and for anyone who might not know, Iranians are not Arabs. [Post edited 13 Jun 17:53]
|
I would have loved to have experienced the place before the revolution and hardline Islamic leadership. See also Afghanistan and Pakistan. Basically, I should have been born early enough to do the hippy trail. |  |
| |
| Israel attack Iran on 20:41 - Jun 13 with 897 views | monkeymagic |
This could in theory get v nasty, but I don’t imagine Iran has the capability to hit back hard. Sad to see such a great Nation being hammered but when you advocate for the destruction of a neighbour, there is going to be repercussions. Especially when the source of your fury is a US backed nuclear power, I suspect Israel sees this time as a once in a generation opportunity to change nge the political landscape. | | | |
| Israel attack Iran on 21:10 - Jun 13 with 845 views | BlueForYou |
Are they playing three up front? |  | | |
| Israel attack Iran on 21:44 - Jun 13 with 797 views | Swansea_Blue |
I hope we’re not expected to pick sides. It’d be a tough choice between the murderous, repressive regime that wants to destroy a neighbouring civilisation and the murderous, slightly less repressive regime that wants to destroy a neighbouring civilisation. I don’t see an easy diplomatic way out of escalation. I’m not sure western governments (excluding US) saying ‘play nicely’ has any effect whatsoever. | |
| |
| Israel attack Iran on 21:47 - Jun 13 with 782 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Israel attack Iran on 21:10 - Jun 13 by BlueForYou |
Are they playing three up front? |
Not any more! Iran’s three up front just left the field (permanently) injured after some dangerous challenges. There’s no sign of a ref or VAR, so no red cards for Isreal for now. | |
| |
| Israel attack Iran on 21:59 - Jun 13 with 763 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Israel attack Iran on 11:29 - Jun 13 by Blueschev |
I don't want anybody to have nuclear weapons. Do you think that being attacked by nuclear armed Israel makes Iran more or less inclined to pursue their development? |
An interesting note I have heard a few times is that both sides having nuclear capability with Mutually Assured Destruction led to peace between both sides in the Cold War. Of course, it felt very scary and there were still proxy wars but there was mainly peace of a level not generally known.
Just an observation. I would prefer a world with no nuclear weapons but I would also prefer one with perpetual peace. |  |
| |
| Israel attack Iran on 22:01 - Jun 13 with 756 views | StokieBlue |
Imagine being able to say this after spending two years attacking only civilian areas:
"Israeli Defence Minister Israel Katz has said that Iran crossed "red lines" on Friday when its missiles targeted civilian areas in response to Israel's recent wave of attacks."
Also amazing given Israel struck apartment blocks in Tehran.
SB |  | | |
| Israel attack Iran on 22:53 - Jun 13 with 682 views | ZedRodgers |
| Israel attack Iran on 22:01 - Jun 13 by StokieBlue |
Imagine being able to say this after spending two years attacking only civilian areas:
"Israeli Defence Minister Israel Katz has said that Iran crossed "red lines" on Friday when its missiles targeted civilian areas in response to Israel's recent wave of attacks."
Also amazing given Israel struck apartment blocks in Tehran.
SB |
Precisely.
Imagine if a nation were to house its intelligence HQ in the heart of a densely populated city - hypothetically, somewhere like Tel Aviv.
Now imagine that same nation regularly criticising others for operating out of civilian areas and using ‘human shields’. You'd almost think some red lines are more flexible than others. |  |
| |
| Israel attack Iran on 23:13 - Jun 13 with 639 views | ZedRodgers |
| Israel attack Iran on 11:37 - Jun 13 by lowhouseblue |
it makes them less able to. |
Admission by Israel's former PM today is that Israel could only delay Iran's nuclear program by a few weeks at most:
This explanation and context is interesting, and something you won’t hear from the pre-prepared ‘de-escalation’ speeches Starmer, Macron et al in the coming days and hours - The futility and recklessness of Israel's attack on Iran is nothing short of a glaring act of war - A war they cannot win without Trump, and likely wouldn’t win outright even with US involvement.
As SB pointed out earlier, this aligns perfectly with Netanyahu's strategy of perpetuating a state of abject terror to sustain his political fantasy. It's a catastrophic miscalculation. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
