| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. 15:21 - Jun 28 with 20768 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
...just upped the anti Israel rhetoric!! |  |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 09:58 - Jul 1 with 1358 views | lowhouseblue |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 09:37 - Jul 1 by urbanpenguin |
Art is political. Doesn't have to have a big P, this does, but it's always been and always will be. You are free to look at or listen to other art. |
isn't that the point he's making though. art is / can be political, but to be so it needs to challenge and cause people see something fresh, rather than just incite a crowd into a one line chant? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:04 - Jul 1 with 1332 views | Blueschev |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 09:58 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
isn't that the point he's making though. art is / can be political, but to be so it needs to challenge and cause people see something fresh, rather than just incite a crowd into a one line chant? |
I thought the point he was trying to make was that the audience were thick, and would chant along to anything, and that that is dangerous. All rather patronising and dismissive of the genuine and legitimate outrage people feel about an ally to the UK massacring people whilst they wait for food. |  | | |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:10 - Jul 1 with 1268 views | Benters |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 09:58 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
isn't that the point he's making though. art is / can be political, but to be so it needs to challenge and cause people see something fresh, rather than just incite a crowd into a one line chant? |
Where’s Glassers when you need him. |  |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:11 - Jul 1 with 1255 views | positivity |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:10 - Jul 1 by Benters |
Where’s Glassers when you need him. |
at glasto protesting about 'war criminal' netanyahu and the actions of the idf? |  |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:12 - Jul 1 with 1229 views | lowhouseblue |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:04 - Jul 1 by Blueschev |
I thought the point he was trying to make was that the audience were thick, and would chant along to anything, and that that is dangerous. All rather patronising and dismissive of the genuine and legitimate outrage people feel about an ally to the UK massacring people whilst they wait for food. |
you can feel and express outrage without chanting for the death of jews - most whom are young and carrying out national service - and who are the defence force for the only jewish state in the world and home to about half of the world's jewish population. outrage and opposition to the current israeli government are fine, but chants which even the bbc now admits were anti-semitic are not. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:12 - Jul 1 with 1242 views | Benters |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:11 - Jul 1 by positivity |
at glasto protesting about 'war criminal' netanyahu and the actions of the idf? |
Fair play to him. | |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:17 - Jul 1 with 1200 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:12 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
you can feel and express outrage without chanting for the death of jews - most whom are young and carrying out national service - and who are the defence force for the only jewish state in the world and home to about half of the world's jewish population. outrage and opposition to the current israeli government are fine, but chants which even the bbc now admits were anti-semitic are not. |
Reframing it as "chanting for the death of jews"?!?!?!?!?
Didn't know you work for the Daily Mail lowers. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:21 - Jul 1 with 1174 views | WeWereZombies |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:12 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
you can feel and express outrage without chanting for the death of jews - most whom are young and carrying out national service - and who are the defence force for the only jewish state in the world and home to about half of the world's jewish population. outrage and opposition to the current israeli government are fine, but chants which even the bbc now admits were anti-semitic are not. |
Ahem, Israel is a secular state. It does have a very large Jewish population but there are other faiths and people with no faith within its borders. I did point out the trap that Jacobson was falling into with my earlier post but you seem to have not only failed to consider that but made a terrible assumption in addition. |  |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:26 - Jul 1 with 1150 views | Blueschev |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:12 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
you can feel and express outrage without chanting for the death of jews - most whom are young and carrying out national service - and who are the defence force for the only jewish state in the world and home to about half of the world's jewish population. outrage and opposition to the current israeli government are fine, but chants which even the bbc now admits were anti-semitic are not. |
It would only constitute antisemitism if the chant was targeting the IDF because it was Jewish, rather than for the atrocities it is committing daily. The ethnicity of those committing war crimes is irrelevant, it's the war crimes people are angry about. | | | |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:37 - Jul 1 with 1086 views | LeoMuff |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:26 - Jul 1 by Blueschev |
It would only constitute antisemitism if the chant was targeting the IDF because it was Jewish, rather than for the atrocities it is committing daily. The ethnicity of those committing war crimes is irrelevant, it's the war crimes people are angry about. |
I think Labour underestimates the strength of feeling out there on this, it will cost them.
We are currently endorsing and supplying arms to a nation that has killed 55000 people in the last year or so, targeting hospitals, schools, all infrastructure, medical workers and staff, aid workers.They have also cut all food and medicines for a number of months and have now killed over 500 people queuing for food at aid posts.
Yet the most outraged they get is over Bob Vylan. |  |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:37 - Jul 1 with 1085 views | positivity |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:26 - Jul 1 by Blueschev |
It would only constitute antisemitism if the chant was targeting the IDF because it was Jewish, rather than for the atrocities it is committing daily. The ethnicity of those committing war crimes is irrelevant, it's the war crimes people are angry about. |
would linking judaism with the war-crimes of the idf be far closer to anti-semitism than chanting death to the idf?
(i'm not condoning the chants at all, but doesn't seem like anti-semitism to me any more than chanting for the death of khamenei/irgc would be islamophobic) [Post edited 1 Jul 10:37]
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:50 - Jul 1 with 1023 views | WeWereZombies |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:37 - Jul 1 by LeoMuff |
I think Labour underestimates the strength of feeling out there on this, it will cost them.
We are currently endorsing and supplying arms to a nation that has killed 55000 people in the last year or so, targeting hospitals, schools, all infrastructure, medical workers and staff, aid workers.They have also cut all food and medicines for a number of months and have now killed over 500 people queuing for food at aid posts.
Yet the most outraged they get is over Bob Vylan. |
But are the IDF targeting hospitals, schools, aid workers and distribution centres or are they just so inept that a blanket of destruction is all they can muster ? A conversation I had with an Israeli some years ago has me thinking that a lot of the tactics employed are driven by fear alone, that Netanyahu's rhetoric is the worst kind of overselling and that a tragic attitude towards Palestinians as being subhuman contributes to a clumsy application of the already perilous practice of warfare.
In addition there is the regular interviewing of former leaders of Shin Bet, the Israeli security agency, who decry the undue influence of extremists in the current Israeli administration.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0285pjl/p0285pgs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001yxwc | |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:59 - Jul 1 with 978 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:12 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
you can feel and express outrage without chanting for the death of jews - most whom are young and carrying out national service - and who are the defence force for the only jewish state in the world and home to about half of the world's jewish population. outrage and opposition to the current israeli government are fine, but chants which even the bbc now admits were anti-semitic are not. |
Deliberate misrepresentation of the chant, (which I don't condone btw), in a very Daily Mail style.
Pretty poor really |  | | |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 11:00 - Jul 1 with 974 views | Whos_blue |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:12 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
you can feel and express outrage without chanting for the death of jews - most whom are young and carrying out national service - and who are the defence force for the only jewish state in the world and home to about half of the world's jewish population. outrage and opposition to the current israeli government are fine, but chants which even the bbc now admits were anti-semitic are not. |
I've mentioned previously that it's not the sort of chant I'd be joining in with but this feels like quite the leap you're making here Lowers.
At no point has anyone chanted anything about death to Jews.
Yes, the IDF are predominant made up of Jewish nationals (possibly exclusively so), but the chants are based on their inexcusble use of fatal force against unarmed and innocent Palestinians and other aid workers.
I struggle to see how that can be construed as antisemetic. As much as I love the BBC (I know I'm in the minority with that one!) I can't help but feel they have taken the easy option in the hope it all blows over.
I'm not sure the statement regarding IDF soldiers doing national service serves much purpose.
Surely that applies to most aggressive oppressors throughout history? |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 11:35 - Jul 1 with 897 views | giant_stow |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 11:00 - Jul 1 by Whos_blue |
I've mentioned previously that it's not the sort of chant I'd be joining in with but this feels like quite the leap you're making here Lowers.
At no point has anyone chanted anything about death to Jews.
Yes, the IDF are predominant made up of Jewish nationals (possibly exclusively so), but the chants are based on their inexcusble use of fatal force against unarmed and innocent Palestinians and other aid workers.
I struggle to see how that can be construed as antisemetic. As much as I love the BBC (I know I'm in the minority with that one!) I can't help but feel they have taken the easy option in the hope it all blows over.
I'm not sure the statement regarding IDF soldiers doing national service serves much purpose.
Surely that applies to most aggressive oppressors throughout history? |
I hate to say the following as it may wind some up, but I think Wed Streeting had it right the other day when he said he wants Ukraine to win the war against Russia, but doesn't take pleasure in Russian solders' deaths. or in his own words:
“All life is sacred. And I find it pretty revolting we’ve got to a state in this conflict where you’re supposed to sort of cheer on one side or the other like it’s a football team,” |  |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 13:33 - Jul 1 with 713 views | LeoMuff |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:50 - Jul 1 by WeWereZombies |
But are the IDF targeting hospitals, schools, aid workers and distribution centres or are they just so inept that a blanket of destruction is all they can muster ? A conversation I had with an Israeli some years ago has me thinking that a lot of the tactics employed are driven by fear alone, that Netanyahu's rhetoric is the worst kind of overselling and that a tragic attitude towards Palestinians as being subhuman contributes to a clumsy application of the already perilous practice of warfare.
In addition there is the regular interviewing of former leaders of Shin Bet, the Israeli security agency, who decry the undue influence of extremists in the current Israeli administration.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0285pjl/p0285pgs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001yxwc |
I think you only need to listen to some of the rhetoric from some Israeli ministers to know this is a deliberate ploy, ministers in government have openly advocated for no aid to enter Gaza.
The plan from the start was to make Gaza uninhabitable and kill as many of the population as possible and force as many to leave for other countries as possible.
This is a military that is so advanced to can implant explosive devices into pagers in a hostile country and target individual nuclear scientists. I’m pretty sure they can direct their bombs away from wherever they so choose | |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 13:41 - Jul 1 with 673 views | baxterbasics |
I have been critical of the likes of Kneecap and Bob Vylan, and I am in the camp that feels calling for the death of the legitimate armed forces of an ally is crossing a line beyond protest, particularly when so many of said force are regular young people doing compulsory national service which is genuinely needed given the threats Israel has always faced. This is not the same as simply criticising the government for how they use those forces.
HOWEVER, as a free speech absolutist I have to be consistent - this shouldn't be a matter for police or lawmakers. This is government overreach. I say the same when it comes for the right so I will say the same in this case. As easy it it is to laugh at the situation BV now finds itself in, I honestly don't think people's careers should be so easily ended over moments like this. Once you start allowing it for one side of the divide, don't be surprised when they start coming for you too.
It would be nice if the media didn't throw a wobbly and give them so much publicity. |  |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 13:46 - Jul 1 with 643 views | lowhouseblue |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 11:00 - Jul 1 by Whos_blue |
I've mentioned previously that it's not the sort of chant I'd be joining in with but this feels like quite the leap you're making here Lowers.
At no point has anyone chanted anything about death to Jews.
Yes, the IDF are predominant made up of Jewish nationals (possibly exclusively so), but the chants are based on their inexcusble use of fatal force against unarmed and innocent Palestinians and other aid workers.
I struggle to see how that can be construed as antisemetic. As much as I love the BBC (I know I'm in the minority with that one!) I can't help but feel they have taken the easy option in the hope it all blows over.
I'm not sure the statement regarding IDF soldiers doing national service serves much purpose.
Surely that applies to most aggressive oppressors throughout history? |
well diane abbott has now tweeted that "Beyond horrific that the Jewish Defence Force is gunning down Palestinians as they queue for food." so in her usual way she's rather let the cat out of the bag. (clearly someone explained things to her and the tweet has been deleted - it will be another concentration lapse i'm sure). | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 13:55 - Jul 1 with 598 views | Blueschev |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 13:46 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
well diane abbott has now tweeted that "Beyond horrific that the Jewish Defence Force is gunning down Palestinians as they queue for food." so in her usual way she's rather let the cat out of the bag. (clearly someone explained things to her and the tweet has been deleted - it will be another concentration lapse i'm sure). |
It's appears she's conflating the IDF with Jews in much the same way you did earlier in the thread. Did you have a concentration lapse? | | | |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:06 - Jul 1 with 560 views | lowhouseblue |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 13:55 - Jul 1 by Blueschev |
It's appears she's conflating the IDF with Jews in much the same way you did earlier in the thread. Did you have a concentration lapse? |
so you think that calling for the death of the idf isn't calling for the death of jews? how exactly does the first happen without the second? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:11 - Jul 1 with 528 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:06 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
so you think that calling for the death of the idf isn't calling for the death of jews? how exactly does the first happen without the second? |
I don't think you're this stupid, so it must be trolling. Which is probably the worst-taste trolling there could be. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:15 - Jul 1 with 507 views | leitrimblue |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:06 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
so you think that calling for the death of the idf isn't calling for the death of jews? how exactly does the first happen without the second? |
No, it's calling for the death of people currently committing genocide and murdering unharmed starving women and children in cold blood.
Their religion is not an issue unless people wish to make it one |  | | |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:16 - Jul 1 with 495 views | lowhouseblue |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:11 - Jul 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I don't think you're this stupid, so it must be trolling. Which is probably the worst-taste trolling there could be. |
again, how is calling for death to the idf not a call for death to jews? aren't all of the idf jewish? in terms of trolling my take matches that of the bbc, all of the political parties, plus the chief rabbi. are they all trolling you? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:18 - Jul 1 with 482 views | Blueschev |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:06 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
so you think that calling for the death of the idf isn't calling for the death of jews? how exactly does the first happen without the second? |
My interpretation was that the chant was calling for the death of the IDF as an institution rather than those serving within it. If it's antisemitic to chant death to the IDF, then surely Abbott's now deleted tweet is correct in your eyes? | | | |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:18 - Jul 1 with 477 views | lowhouseblue |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:15 - Jul 1 by leitrimblue |
No, it's calling for the death of people currently committing genocide and murdering unharmed starving women and children in cold blood.
Their religion is not an issue unless people wish to make it one |
it's just a coincidence that all of the people they are calling for the death of are jews? who else do you want to call for the death of? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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