| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. 15:21 - Jun 28 with 20107 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
...just upped the anti Israel rhetoric!! |  |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:19 - Jul 1 with 1077 views | Dubtractor |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:06 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
so you think that calling for the death of the idf isn't calling for the death of jews? how exactly does the first happen without the second? |
Got to say, your posting in this thread is in pretty poor taste, in my opinion. Deliberately twisting the truth to fit the narrative you want to present. |  |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:23 - Jul 1 with 1043 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:16 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
again, how is calling for death to the idf not a call for death to jews? aren't all of the idf jewish? in terms of trolling my take matches that of the bbc, all of the political parties, plus the chief rabbi. are they all trolling you? |
They, like you, are cleary trying to make it something that it's not. Just as the Daily Fail did yesterday. It's disgusting, you know exactly what you're doing, and you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:23 - Jul 1 with 1045 views | WeWereZombies |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 13:41 - Jul 1 by baxterbasics |
I have been critical of the likes of Kneecap and Bob Vylan, and I am in the camp that feels calling for the death of the legitimate armed forces of an ally is crossing a line beyond protest, particularly when so many of said force are regular young people doing compulsory national service which is genuinely needed given the threats Israel has always faced. This is not the same as simply criticising the government for how they use those forces.
HOWEVER, as a free speech absolutist I have to be consistent - this shouldn't be a matter for police or lawmakers. This is government overreach. I say the same when it comes for the right so I will say the same in this case. As easy it it is to laugh at the situation BV now finds itself in, I honestly don't think people's careers should be so easily ended over moments like this. Once you start allowing it for one side of the divide, don't be surprised when they start coming for you too.
It would be nice if the media didn't throw a wobbly and give them so much publicity. |
I'm not sure we should be laughing at Bob Vylan today, they have gotten more publicity than they could ever have hoped to get from half an hour of coverage on the iPlayer, and avoided having to tour Trump's America too. On the free speech issue, and more seriously, I have only just been reminded of John Stuart Mill's argument that a speech accusing a corn dealer of starving the poor is acceptable if circulated through the press but not acceptable if made on the steps of a corn dealer's house:
'Even opinions lose their immunity [from regulation], when the circumstances in which they are expressed are such as to constitute their expression a positive instigation to some mischievous act. An opinion that corn-dealers are starvers of the poor, or that private property is robbery, ought to be unmolested when simply circulated through the press, but may justly incur punishment when delivered orally to an excited mob assembled before the house of a corn-dealer, or when handed about among the same mob in the form of a placard. Acts [which unjustifiably] do harm to others, may be [controlled, when needful,] by the active interference of mankind.'
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/utilitas/article/john-stuart-mills-passa
In my opinion to make the statement he did in front of a crowd who, for the most part, want to see him perform and know what he can be like, is not that inciteful and is acceptable. For the BBC to broadcast it is equally acceptable if only because it is broadcast to recipients who will not be in much of a crowd. If Bobby had led that chant in front of the Israeli Embassy then he would be culpable for any harm that ensued. |  |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:23 - Jul 1 with 1043 views | Blueschev |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:16 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
again, how is calling for death to the idf not a call for death to jews? aren't all of the idf jewish? in terms of trolling my take matches that of the bbc, all of the political parties, plus the chief rabbi. are they all trolling you? |
So what if they're all Jewish? What is the relevance? Last time I checked holding all Jews collectively responsible for the actions of the Israeli state was antisemitic. |  | | |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:24 - Jul 1 with 1017 views | lowhouseblue |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:19 - Jul 1 by Dubtractor |
Got to say, your posting in this thread is in pretty poor taste, in my opinion. Deliberately twisting the truth to fit the narrative you want to present. |
explain what i'm twisting. how do you have the death of the idf without the death of its jewish members. you do realise that i am very far from the only one who found the chant anti-semitic. that is the view of most of the media, all political parties etc etc. so in terms of poor taste and deliberately twisting, outside of twtd mine is the way most people have seen it. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:26 - Jul 1 with 1001 views | lowhouseblue |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:23 - Jul 1 by Blueschev |
So what if they're all Jewish? What is the relevance? Last time I checked holding all Jews collectively responsible for the actions of the Israeli state was antisemitic. |
the relevance is that calling for the death of the idf is unavoidably calling for the death of jews. you can oppose israeli government policy without calling for anyone to die. who else do you call for the death of? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:26 - Jul 1 with 1021 views | leitrimblue |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:18 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
it's just a coincidence that all of the people they are calling for the death of are jews? who else do you want to call for the death of? |
Anybody else committing genocide and murdering thousands of unarmed women and children
So if we see things your way, anyone calling for the deaths of Nazis during the holocaust were not calling fir the deaths of murderous scumbags committing genocide on an industrial scale but where instead calling for the deaths of Christians as they were all Christians?
Excellent mental gymnastics  |  | | |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:29 - Jul 1 with 991 views | Dubtractor |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:24 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
explain what i'm twisting. how do you have the death of the idf without the death of its jewish members. you do realise that i am very far from the only one who found the chant anti-semitic. that is the view of most of the media, all political parties etc etc. so in terms of poor taste and deliberately twisting, outside of twtd mine is the way most people have seen it. |
If someone (an Israeli for example) said death to hamas after the October 7th atrocity, not one person would say that was islamaphobic, despite all of hamas being Muslim.
I struggle to see how different rules would be applied here.
What Bob Vylan did was stupid, but to argue it was anti semitic is a massive stretch. | |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:30 - Jul 1 with 982 views | WeWereZombies |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:16 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
again, how is calling for death to the idf not a call for death to jews? aren't all of the idf jewish? in terms of trolling my take matches that of the bbc, all of the political parties, plus the chief rabbi. are they all trolling you? |
'aren't all of the idf jewish?'
No, they are not all Jewish.
'The IDF does not conscript Arab citizens of Israel who are Muslim or Christian, however, they may choose to volunteer for military service. For Druze and Circassian men, enlistment is mandatory.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Israel | |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:31 - Jul 1 with 949 views | lowhouseblue |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:26 - Jul 1 by leitrimblue |
Anybody else committing genocide and murdering thousands of unarmed women and children
So if we see things your way, anyone calling for the deaths of Nazis during the holocaust were not calling fir the deaths of murderous scumbags committing genocide on an industrial scale but where instead calling for the deaths of Christians as they were all Christians?
Excellent mental gymnastics |
ah, comparisons to the holocaust. who'd have thunk it.
you'll just have to link me to the post where you called for the death of hamas following the october 7th pogrom.
anyway, this is not going to end well so i'll leave you all to it. but don't read what the press and politicians have said about the chant, it will upset you. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:31 - Jul 1 with 956 views | Ryorry |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 10:50 - Jul 1 by WeWereZombies |
But are the IDF targeting hospitals, schools, aid workers and distribution centres or are they just so inept that a blanket of destruction is all they can muster ? A conversation I had with an Israeli some years ago has me thinking that a lot of the tactics employed are driven by fear alone, that Netanyahu's rhetoric is the worst kind of overselling and that a tragic attitude towards Palestinians as being subhuman contributes to a clumsy application of the already perilous practice of warfare.
In addition there is the regular interviewing of former leaders of Shin Bet, the Israeli security agency, who decry the undue influence of extremists in the current Israeli administration.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0285pjl/p0285pgs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001yxwc |
Re your first paragraph, I thought that was because the Israeli government claims that Hamas leaders/individuals reside amongst the general Palestinian population on the Gaza Strip, so are effectively using them as human shields?
I’m not the best informed on this thread however, so am open to others’ povs. |  |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:34 - Jul 1 with 923 views | positivity |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:18 - Jul 1 by Blueschev |
My interpretation was that the chant was calling for the death of the IDF as an institution rather than those serving within it. If it's antisemitic to chant death to the IDF, then surely Abbott's now deleted tweet is correct in your eyes? |
at least abbott had the decency to delete her tweet when her mistake was pointed out, unlike lowhouse |  |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:39 - Jul 1 with 884 views | leitrimblue |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:31 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
ah, comparisons to the holocaust. who'd have thunk it.
you'll just have to link me to the post where you called for the death of hamas following the october 7th pogrom.
anyway, this is not going to end well so i'll leave you all to it. but don't read what the press and politicians have said about the chant, it will upset you. |
If you have a better genocide comparison I will happily use it.
As evil an twisted as Hamas are, even they aren't currently committing genocide in front of our very eyes are they?
Death to those who commit genocide whatever religion they belong to.
How is that? | | | |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:41 - Jul 1 with 870 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:31 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
ah, comparisons to the holocaust. who'd have thunk it.
you'll just have to link me to the post where you called for the death of hamas following the october 7th pogrom.
anyway, this is not going to end well so i'll leave you all to it. but don't read what the press and politicians have said about the chant, it will upset you. |
So essentially you're wrong in sh1t company...nothing new there then! | |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:42 - Jul 1 with 862 views | Blueschev |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:26 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
the relevance is that calling for the death of the idf is unavoidably calling for the death of jews. you can oppose israeli government policy without calling for anyone to die. who else do you call for the death of? |
I didn't call for the death of anyone, and I wouldn't have joined in. But I don't believe the chant in question was directed at individuals but rather the IDF as an institution.
If I called for the death of Yigal Amir would I be an antisemite? He is Jewish after all. | | | |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:42 - Jul 1 with 859 views | itfcjoe |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:29 - Jul 1 by Dubtractor |
If someone (an Israeli for example) said death to hamas after the October 7th atrocity, not one person would say that was islamaphobic, despite all of hamas being Muslim.
I struggle to see how different rules would be applied here.
What Bob Vylan did was stupid, but to argue it was anti semitic is a massive stretch. |
Death to the IDF, from the river to the sea then going on about Zionists and Zios etc…..i appreciate that at times people may find it difficult to tread the fine line between criticising Israel and being antisemitic but there was no attempt to do so |  |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:48 - Jul 1 with 808 views | jayessess |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:31 - Jul 1 by Ryorry |
Re your first paragraph, I thought that was because the Israeli government claims that Hamas leaders/individuals reside amongst the general Palestinian population on the Gaza Strip, so are effectively using them as human shields?
I’m not the best informed on this thread however, so am open to others’ povs. |
I mean, that's the justification when questioned about it in English on English-language news, but they don't bother with that when talking to Israeli audiences and just plainly talk about "flattening" Gaza:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2025/05/15/gaza-latest-israeli-plan-inches-closer-exter
Also worth noting that "residing amongst the general population" is a description of pretty much any historical insurgency you could name (the Maquis, the Vietcong etc. etc.) and isn't and has never been an excuse for the collective punishment of entire populations. |  |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:48 - Jul 1 with 799 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:31 - Jul 1 by Ryorry |
Re your first paragraph, I thought that was because the Israeli government claims that Hamas leaders/individuals reside amongst the general Palestinian population on the Gaza Strip, so are effectively using them as human shields?
I’m not the best informed on this thread however, so am open to others’ povs. |
It’s not just an Israeli claim - several NGO’s and charities have documented Hamas use of Palestinian civilians as human shields, including the UN:-
“Hamas deliberately embeds its military operations in residential areas with the clear intention of using its own people, including women and children, as protection. One does not have to look any further than Hamas’ own combat manual on urban warfare to see how the terror organization has institutionalized its disregard for human life. Its combat strategy guidelines explicitly instruct terrorists to use civilians as human shields. This is not a new tactic — it has been the modus operandi of Hamas each and every time it has waged hostilities against Israel”
Sadly the IDF have been more than willing to go ahead and kill civilians anyway. | | | |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 15:04 - Jul 1 with 715 views | tcblue |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 16:15 - Jul 1 with 597 views | MattinLondon |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 15:04 - Jul 1 by tcblue |
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The old free speech debate throws up a lot of hypocrisy on both sides of this debate.
Not so long ago a lot of people on the right were angry because the wife of a councillor lost the plot on Twitter and called for hotels housing asylum seekers to be burnt down - she actively encouraged behaviour which could have killed innocent people and she was righty jailed.
Now the same people who were defending her are now calling on Bob Vylan to face charges and possible serve jail time. And a lot of people defending his chant etc were defending that woman being jailed.
It’s at best hypocrisy, at worst gross double standards (think both are different).
It’s easy to dismiss his chant as that of middle class people just trying to be hip and jump on the Palestinian cause but if those images are shown to people over there, they might well encounsge more violence. So I think that Bob Vylan should face sanction.
But I don’t think that he’s words were antisemitic - they were certainly anti-Israeli government as well as anti IDF but that’s not the same as collective Jew hating. I know that the head Rabbi thinks so but o think he’s wrong.
The real victims of this debacle are (again) the Palestinian people. Are we talking about their continued murder, their continued suffering? Yes, but not as much as the chatter surrounding an ill-advised chant. A chant which will simply allow the Israeli PM to play the victim and allow him and his evil cabinet more justification in their actions. Shame, just a shame. |  | | |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 16:31 - Jul 1 with 544 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:16 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
again, how is calling for death to the idf not a call for death to jews? aren't all of the idf jewish? in terms of trolling my take matches that of the bbc, all of the political parties, plus the chief rabbi. are they all trolling you? |
No, the IDF is not all Jewish. All male Israeli Druze also serve in (through mandatory conscription) it and some Bedouin enlist voluntarily.
[edit: Sorry, seen WWZ also responded to this, at which point there was a convenient disappearing act] [Post edited 1 Jul 16:34]
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 16:31 - Jul 1 with 546 views | BloomBlue |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 16:15 - Jul 1 by MattinLondon |
The old free speech debate throws up a lot of hypocrisy on both sides of this debate.
Not so long ago a lot of people on the right were angry because the wife of a councillor lost the plot on Twitter and called for hotels housing asylum seekers to be burnt down - she actively encouraged behaviour which could have killed innocent people and she was righty jailed.
Now the same people who were defending her are now calling on Bob Vylan to face charges and possible serve jail time. And a lot of people defending his chant etc were defending that woman being jailed.
It’s at best hypocrisy, at worst gross double standards (think both are different).
It’s easy to dismiss his chant as that of middle class people just trying to be hip and jump on the Palestinian cause but if those images are shown to people over there, they might well encounsge more violence. So I think that Bob Vylan should face sanction.
But I don’t think that he’s words were antisemitic - they were certainly anti-Israeli government as well as anti IDF but that’s not the same as collective Jew hating. I know that the head Rabbi thinks so but o think he’s wrong.
The real victims of this debacle are (again) the Palestinian people. Are we talking about their continued murder, their continued suffering? Yes, but not as much as the chatter surrounding an ill-advised chant. A chant which will simply allow the Israeli PM to play the victim and allow him and his evil cabinet more justification in their actions. Shame, just a shame. |
Why are both different?
She called for the death or people, he called for the death of people.
She encouraged others, he did the same.
Her comment could result in the death of innocent people. You're assumed every one in the IDF is guilty. Somewhere taken as hostages, he is calling for the death of those.
She removed the X comment, he has said he stands by the comment.
She was jailed which if you believe in the law of the land that was correct (personally I thought the prison length was extreme). But what he said isn't any different, they both called for the death of people. |  | | |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 16:32 - Jul 1 with 529 views | Ryorry |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:48 - Jul 1 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
It’s not just an Israeli claim - several NGO’s and charities have documented Hamas use of Palestinian civilians as human shields, including the UN:-
“Hamas deliberately embeds its military operations in residential areas with the clear intention of using its own people, including women and children, as protection. One does not have to look any further than Hamas’ own combat manual on urban warfare to see how the terror organization has institutionalized its disregard for human life. Its combat strategy guidelines explicitly instruct terrorists to use civilians as human shields. This is not a new tactic — it has been the modus operandi of Hamas each and every time it has waged hostilities against Israel”
Sadly the IDF have been more than willing to go ahead and kill civilians anyway. |
Very informative, thanks - Jayess's post & linked article too 👍 | |
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| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 16:36 - Jul 1 with 510 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 13:46 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue |
well diane abbott has now tweeted that "Beyond horrific that the Jewish Defence Force is gunning down Palestinians as they queue for food." so in her usual way she's rather let the cat out of the bag. (clearly someone explained things to her and the tweet has been deleted - it will be another concentration lapse i'm sure). |
2 wrongs .....
Simps really
Unless Dianne Abbott is the source of your thinking here |  | | |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 16:39 - Jul 1 with 499 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:31 - Jul 1 by Ryorry |
Re your first paragraph, I thought that was because the Israeli government claims that Hamas leaders/individuals reside amongst the general Palestinian population on the Gaza Strip, so are effectively using them as human shields?
I’m not the best informed on this thread however, so am open to others’ povs. |
Clearly
Edit - this was unnecessary and I apologise.
Heightened emotions and all that [Post edited 1 Jul 17:23]
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