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Following on from J2s thoughts - basically the idea of living a simpler minimalist life without the stress of a career and all that entails...
If you could make a switch now - what's the lowest amount of money that you would take (index linked) for life today. So if someone said here's £25k a year, for ever, but you are not allowed to ever earn another penny - would you take it?
Would you take less? Would you want more to do the deal?
You don't get to change your mind later, or take it later - the offer is only valid for today and you have to decide for you and your family.
Assume your mortgage is paid so what you get is what you live on and not a penny more.
Less is more. I come from old hippy generation which didn’t measure success in terms of possessions. Many decades ago, I wandered into a lifestyle without regular income,fixed home, transport, country... Obviously didn’t plan for old age but now a small government pension is sufficient for all my needs. So far, for 10 years I have thrived on it. ...also kind of fun to alight from a long haul flight with just 7kg cabin baggage.
It’s not what your income is, but what your outgoings are. Look at your red lines for what is essential for your well being. This lifestyle/income level wouldn’t suit everyone and it’s probably only possible by retiring overseas. Guess, different strokes for different folks.
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Downsizing / opting out on 12:04 - Jul 7 with 868 views
Downsizing / opting out on 12:02 - Jul 7 by Basuco
For a reasonable standard of living you would need £43K per year, it depends what you can cut out from your current outgoings. £2K a month does not go far these days let alone how far it would go in 10 to 15 years time.
I love it when people come out with these completely random amounts with no consideration for different circumstances.
Prior to Brexit, relocating to Spain would have been an option.
In the southern Costa Blanca homes are dirt cheap, the running costs of a home (including heating, insurance and local taxes) are a fraction of those in the UK, the cost of living is cheap, and £25,000 index-linked would be a small fortune, given many live there on little more than the state pension. And the climate is such that buildings just don't deteriorate.
The other option would be crofting.
[Post edited 7 Jul 12:07]
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Downsizing / opting out on 12:28 - Jul 7 with 796 views
Prior to Brexit, relocating to Spain would have been an option.
In the southern Costa Blanca homes are dirt cheap, the running costs of a home (including heating, insurance and local taxes) are a fraction of those in the UK, the cost of living is cheap, and £25,000 index-linked would be a small fortune, given many live there on little more than the state pension. And the climate is such that buildings just don't deteriorate.
The other option would be crofting.
[Post edited 7 Jul 12:07]
I was on Lewis a couple of weeks back and saw a nice cheap property that was a small croft.
Did some googling - had no idea of the whole croft thing - that you are legally obliged to croft - can't just turn it into a nice garden!
It’s very interesting to me that so many seem so disaffected with their lot that they would basically cash out, never travel, never meet people etc etc So many of these people espouse socialist values but seem to yearn for an atomised existence in a hut somewhere
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Downsizing / opting out on 12:04 - Jul 7 by J2BLUE
I love it when people come out with these completely random amounts with no consideration for different circumstances.
I heard the £43K figure on the radio a few weeks back, I did forget that by downsizing you may have a lump sum to draw on to make up any difference on income over expenditure. Maybe I need to trim my outgoings a bit, but if you want to include a season ticket with a few away games, a holiday abroad and one or two in the UK and eat out once or twice a month, a glass of wine or beer at the weekends, add one or two new hobbies, then the £43K mentioned would be required. It was not just a random figure plucked from the air, it is something I have been looking into as I have reached state pension age.
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Downsizing / opting out on 12:36 - Jul 7 with 758 views
Downsizing / opting out on 12:31 - Jul 7 by chicoazul
It’s very interesting to me that so many seem so disaffected with their lot that they would basically cash out, never travel, never meet people etc etc So many of these people espouse socialist values but seem to yearn for an atomised existence in a hut somewhere
Who said anything about never meeting people or travelling?
Downsizing / opting out on 12:34 - Jul 7 by Basuco
I heard the £43K figure on the radio a few weeks back, I did forget that by downsizing you may have a lump sum to draw on to make up any difference on income over expenditure. Maybe I need to trim my outgoings a bit, but if you want to include a season ticket with a few away games, a holiday abroad and one or two in the UK and eat out once or twice a month, a glass of wine or beer at the weekends, add one or two new hobbies, then the £43K mentioned would be required. It was not just a random figure plucked from the air, it is something I have been looking into as I have reached state pension age.
Downsizing / opting out on 12:36 - Jul 7 by J2BLUE
Who said anything about never meeting people or travelling?
How do you travel on for eg 25k a year? And MVBlue did. Most people meet new people at work. I struggle to see how you meet new people with no disposable income while one is a crofter for eg.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Downsizing / opting out on 12:42 - Jul 7 by chicoazul
How do you travel on for eg 25k a year? And MVBlue did. Most people meet new people at work. I struggle to see how you meet new people with no disposable income while one is a crofter for eg.
All of my numbers include disposable income. Would be crazy to plan for a figure with no money to do things. My number includes everything. Birthdays, Christmas, savings, emergency fund, a good chunk each month to do things, Sky (for football and NFL) and the number is still a lot lower than most would expect. It's enough to live very comfortably to give me options. Not enough that I would never do an hours work for the rest of my life.
I am sorry no one wants to be your friend outside of work.
Edit: Just googled crofter. That sounds my idea of hell.
Downsizing / opting out on 12:28 - Jul 7 by bluelagos
I was on Lewis a couple of weeks back and saw a nice cheap property that was a small croft.
Did some googling - had no idea of the whole croft thing - that you are legally obliged to croft - can't just turn it into a nice garden!
I have ancestors from Colonsay, Mull and the Shetlands who would have been crofters.
In Shetland the soil was fairly infertile, so fishing would have been an important part of life. Indeed, I have two ancestors from the Shetlands who drowned at sea whilst fishing.
Some of my ancestors lived in the cleared village of Shiaba on the Ross of Mull, not far from Iona. It also suffered from the failure of the potato crop in 1846.
Interestingly, a notable resident of Shiaba was the Gaelic poet Mary MacLucas, author of the Gaelic hymn Leanabh an àigh (Child in a Manger). The tune of this piece (an old Gaelic melody) later became famous as the melody to the more widely known hymn Morning Has Broken.
[Post edited 7 Jul 14:15]
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Downsizing / opting out on 13:22 - Jul 7 with 636 views
I have ancestors from Colonsay, Mull and the Shetlands who would have been crofters.
In Shetland the soil was fairly infertile, so fishing would have been an important part of life. Indeed, I have two ancestors from the Shetlands who drowned at sea whilst fishing.
Some of my ancestors lived in the cleared village of Shiaba on the Ross of Mull, not far from Iona. It also suffered from the failure of the potato crop in 1846.
Interestingly, a notable resident of Shiaba was the Gaelic poet Mary MacLucas, author of the Gaelic hymn Leanabh an àigh (Child in a Manger). The tune of this piece (an old Gaelic melody) later became famous as the melody to the more widely known hymn Morning Has Broken.
Nothing on the motivation for the clearances? Wondering why the landowner would want people off his land - did he have other (unfulfilled) plans for the land?
Nothing on the motivation for the clearances? Wondering why the landowner would want people off his land - did he have other (unfulfilled) plans for the land?
It was part of the Highland Clearances, when landowners (including the Duke of Argyll) thought it more profitable to replace crofters with sheep.
The clearances are defo something I need to read up on. Greedy landowners sh1tting on ordinary people for their own financial gain. Guess some things are ever thus!
I invested heavily in stocks and shares, fortunately chose good ones, and as a result I live in a massive tent on Depden Green, with Geoffrey my pet snake keeping me company.
The clearances are defo something I need to read up on. Greedy landowners sh1tting on ordinary people for their own financial gain. Guess some things are ever thus!
The tragedy is that the landlords were clan chiefs such as the Duke of Argyll.
This from Wikipedia.
"The eviction of tenants went against dùthchas, the principle that clan members had an inalienable right to rent land in the clan territory. This was never recognised in Scottish law. It was gradually abandoned by clan chiefs as they began to think of themselves simply as commercial landlords, rather than as patriarchs of their people."
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Downsizing / opting out on 13:48 - Jul 7 with 575 views
Downsizing / opting out on 12:31 - Jul 7 by chicoazul
It’s very interesting to me that so many seem so disaffected with their lot that they would basically cash out, never travel, never meet people etc etc So many of these people espouse socialist values but seem to yearn for an atomised existence in a hut somewhere
I think this is an interesting point – that we’d rather withdraw than, well, whatever.
Still, nothing to say you couldn’t travel on £25k/year, but you’d probably be limited to the UK, cheap flights or whatever.
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Downsizing / opting out on 15:35 - Jul 7 with 506 views
I'm a history lecturer, which involves two things I love doing (historical research, teaching), that I'd happily continue doing until I was no longer mentally able and a bunch of stuff I hate doing (marking, a bottomless pit of bureaucracy, chasing a bunch of pointless metrics so they can produce league tables that pit my department against our peers elsewhere), which makes me want to retire as soon as is possible. Like a lot of academics, I have also been on precarious fixed-term contracts since I got my PhD, which is stressful and makes it appealing to get out asap.
Beyond that though, I think one of things our society systematically obscures is that it's labour that keeps society going not money. If you're living off investments so you can just sit there, you're basically just leveraging your wealth to make other people do all the necessary labour on your behalf. Someone slaves away at a rubbish job to pay the rent for the house you are renting, someone else slaves away in an Amazon warehouse to make Bezos a profit that he passes on to you as a shareholder. You haven't opted out of work, you've outsourced it to someone else. Doesn't sit entirely right with me.
Downsizing / opting out on 12:34 - Jul 7 by Basuco
I heard the £43K figure on the radio a few weeks back, I did forget that by downsizing you may have a lump sum to draw on to make up any difference on income over expenditure. Maybe I need to trim my outgoings a bit, but if you want to include a season ticket with a few away games, a holiday abroad and one or two in the UK and eat out once or twice a month, a glass of wine or beer at the weekends, add one or two new hobbies, then the £43K mentioned would be required. It was not just a random figure plucked from the air, it is something I have been looking into as I have reached state pension age.
I do a whole lot more than that with a lot less, and I put money away for a rainy day most months too. I suggest that you take what you hear on the radio with a pinch of salt and work out the numbers for yourself.
Downsizing / opting out on 15:35 - Jul 7 by jayessess
Think I have mixed feelings about this.
I'm a history lecturer, which involves two things I love doing (historical research, teaching), that I'd happily continue doing until I was no longer mentally able and a bunch of stuff I hate doing (marking, a bottomless pit of bureaucracy, chasing a bunch of pointless metrics so they can produce league tables that pit my department against our peers elsewhere), which makes me want to retire as soon as is possible. Like a lot of academics, I have also been on precarious fixed-term contracts since I got my PhD, which is stressful and makes it appealing to get out asap.
Beyond that though, I think one of things our society systematically obscures is that it's labour that keeps society going not money. If you're living off investments so you can just sit there, you're basically just leveraging your wealth to make other people do all the necessary labour on your behalf. Someone slaves away at a rubbish job to pay the rent for the house you are renting, someone else slaves away in an Amazon warehouse to make Bezos a profit that he passes on to you as a shareholder. You haven't opted out of work, you've outsourced it to someone else. Doesn't sit entirely right with me.
Interesting perspective - cheers.
One thing that jumped at me - your comment on the wealthy effectively outsourcing their contributions to society - do you therefore object to people retiring at all? Or just retiring early?
Never really thought about it in the way you frame it - so cheers for the insight (even if I don't really sign up to it)
Downsizing / opting out on 15:35 - Jul 7 by jayessess
Think I have mixed feelings about this.
I'm a history lecturer, which involves two things I love doing (historical research, teaching), that I'd happily continue doing until I was no longer mentally able and a bunch of stuff I hate doing (marking, a bottomless pit of bureaucracy, chasing a bunch of pointless metrics so they can produce league tables that pit my department against our peers elsewhere), which makes me want to retire as soon as is possible. Like a lot of academics, I have also been on precarious fixed-term contracts since I got my PhD, which is stressful and makes it appealing to get out asap.
Beyond that though, I think one of things our society systematically obscures is that it's labour that keeps society going not money. If you're living off investments so you can just sit there, you're basically just leveraging your wealth to make other people do all the necessary labour on your behalf. Someone slaves away at a rubbish job to pay the rent for the house you are renting, someone else slaves away in an Amazon warehouse to make Bezos a profit that he passes on to you as a shareholder. You haven't opted out of work, you've outsourced it to someone else. Doesn't sit entirely right with me.
Good think you like your job and won't take the pension you're eligible for then.
Same thing really isn't it? If other people spend their excess income on beer and I spend mine on shares of Sainsburys that is on them.
(Yes I know now everyone has the luxury to invest and there is nothing wrong with going to the pub - just making a broad point)
Its a fairly complex area. In that mindset myself.
So many variable as to how this pans out, some in your control, some not, such as how long you end up living and how good your health is.
Not convinced there's a lot of advice or assistance out there for this sort of thing unless its about administering reasonably substantial amounts of asset/wealth.
Right now I'd take a small deserted island somewhere with just those I wish to be with, dont know how I'd make it work but step away from all the BS with just a radio to listen to the football results!!
Downsizing / opting out on 13:48 - Jul 7 by thebooks
I think this is an interesting point – that we’d rather withdraw than, well, whatever.
Still, nothing to say you couldn’t travel on £25k/year, but you’d probably be limited to the UK, cheap flights or whatever.
Lots of Africa and Latin America are much cheaper to travel around than the United Kingdom (or Western Europe for that matter.) So long as you are away for, say, six weeks then the long haul flight cost gets spread over those weeks so as to give a better return on your money. Helps if you can speak a reasonable amount of Spanish or French and are savvy about what you eat, how to go on safari, book your own rooms and travel arrangements etc.
Less is more. I come from old hippy generation which didn’t measure success in terms of possessions. Many decades ago, I wandered into a lifestyle without regular income,fixed home, transport, country... Obviously didn’t plan for old age but now a small government pension is sufficient for all my needs. So far, for 10 years I have thrived on it. ...also kind of fun to alight from a long haul flight with just 7kg cabin baggage.
It’s not what your income is, but what your outgoings are. Look at your red lines for what is essential for your well being. This lifestyle/income level wouldn’t suit everyone and it’s probably only possible by retiring overseas. Guess, different strokes for different folks.
Well thats an interesting reply, Mr Shady the international traveller moving from place to place sometimes catching a Town game if the pub has satellite! Maybe you are one of those who works on communes doing gardening or similar? More power to you.
On the £43k figure that is for a 'comfortable' retirement and also includes housing cost already paid for. So is meals out twice a week, a nearly new car, one or more holidays with flights. Nice food, replacement sofa, Nice clothes. Etc etc.
I'm not sure we're all getting that and i'm not personally fussed on all that either. So i'll aim for FIRE where I can live more and enjoy some freedom. Work is a grind even in the tech sector. Staying motivated and driven is important, its a slightly ageist industry too, so having finances in order is important, as you can't hop around as much later on when hitting 50. I suspect quite aa few folks here are in tech, well paid but unless you get management the ideal world is contracting.
Downsizing / opting out on 16:14 - Jul 7 by WeWereZombies
Lots of Africa and Latin America are much cheaper to travel around than the United Kingdom (or Western Europe for that matter.) So long as you are away for, say, six weeks then the long haul flight cost gets spread over those weeks so as to give a better return on your money. Helps if you can speak a reasonable amount of Spanish or French and are savvy about what you eat, how to go on safari, book your own rooms and travel arrangements etc.
South America is defo a lot cheaper than UK - albeit some quite big differences from say Chile/Argentina to the cheaper places like Bolivia in my limited experiences.
Cheapest place I ever stayed was a hotel in Kenya that was $1 a night. The shower was a drip with a bucket to catch the water - bloke said it would be full by the morning and that I could use that. He was spot on too.
Never properly visited Asia but am told Sri Lanka, Thailand, Vietnam are all super affordable - but always been put off by the sheer volume of people.
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