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Firstly, it's another step towards authoritarian government. Or at least puts powerful tools in place should one come to power.
Secondly, the high likelihood it would cost ridiculous time and money to implement, because that's what always seems to happen with big government projects. IT and tech consultancy firms will make a killing at our expense. Whether as taxpayers, or via an admin fee to get one.
Thirdly, once in place do we really trust governments of any colour to use it effectively to solve the problems it is expected to fix? Even if well intentioned, seems a good probability it will have been a waste.
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 09:16 - Jul 11 by Churchman
Trouble is, this government and the previous ones aren’t in the least bit serious about controlling immigration/illegal immigration. The only reason they are coming up with nonsense schemes like Ruanda etc is to make it look like they’re interested because they’re afraid of nutty protest groups like reform messing up their vote.
Back to the question, I agree - an ID card is a must. It can consolidate all sorts of stuff on it including driving licence, medical stuff, just about anything.
The only people afraid of ID cards are those with something to hide - in my opinion.
I'm afraid of nutty protest groups like Ref*rm fucikng up the whole country and that's why this government has to seriously get on with things like ID cards, and sharpish.
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 09:18 - Jul 11 by baxterbasics
I'm leaning against.
Firstly, it's another step towards authoritarian government. Or at least puts powerful tools in place should one come to power.
Secondly, the high likelihood it would cost ridiculous time and money to implement, because that's what always seems to happen with big government projects. IT and tech consultancy firms will make a killing at our expense. Whether as taxpayers, or via an admin fee to get one.
Thirdly, once in place do we really trust governments of any colour to use it effectively to solve the problems it is expected to fix? Even if well intentioned, seems a good probability it will have been a waste.
Apparently we're one of only 10 countries in the world not to implement an identity card of some sort - there must be enough competent experience available to enable and compel a transparent implementation process without the ravenous wolf of unchecked capitalism corrupting it?
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 09:18 - Jul 11 by baxterbasics
I'm leaning against.
Firstly, it's another step towards authoritarian government. Or at least puts powerful tools in place should one come to power.
Secondly, the high likelihood it would cost ridiculous time and money to implement, because that's what always seems to happen with big government projects. IT and tech consultancy firms will make a killing at our expense. Whether as taxpayers, or via an admin fee to get one.
Thirdly, once in place do we really trust governments of any colour to use it effectively to solve the problems it is expected to fix? Even if well intentioned, seems a good probability it will have been a waste.
Authoritarian gvmt? I would be genuinely interested to understand how it increases their level of visibility and control over what they are able to monitor today.
I would contest that a national ID card would not drastically change the level of government surveillance today but has the opportunity to streamline and formalize identity verification processes, improving security and reducing fraud.
Proper regulation and oversight could ensure that the data collected is used responsibly, and existing legal frameworks already provide mechanisms to prevent abuse.
I get that concerns about privacy are valid but the current level of government access already poses significant privacy considerations, and a well-implemented / well-managed system could be designed with safeguards to protect these civil liberties, rather than necessarily increasing the risk of "authoritarian" control.
The gvmt should work in partnership with the different civil liberty groups, and look at successful implementations (such as Estonia's eID).
The points about cost and effective use are valid . . .
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How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 09:45 - Jul 11 with 478 views
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 08:09 - Jul 11 by NthQldITFC
Macron's got it right hasn't he? It's just too easy and tempting to work illegally here, and lack of an easy to check identity system makes it impossible for law enforcement to even consider following anything up, doesn't it?
Not sure if this issue would follow traditional left/right political allegiances. What say you?
If you've got nothing to hide, why not?
If it improves efficiency in so many ways, doesn't it effectively put money in everybody's pocket (if you want to look at it like that)?
Doesn't it promote honesty and openness in society?
Why do some people find it offensive on ideological grounds?
[Post edited 11 Jul 8:13]
If you having nothing to hide can't srr a problem. However could se a problem from scammer's though.
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How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 09:50 - Jul 11 with 461 views
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 09:20 - Jul 11 by NthQldITFC
I'm afraid of nutty protest groups like Ref*rm fucikng up the whole country and that's why this government has to seriously get on with things like ID cards, and sharpish.
Reform and their ilk aren't the cause of our problems. They are a symptom. An unpleasant one, granted.
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 09:09 - Jul 11 by NthQldITFC
In my, possibly naive, way I see it as a basic infrastructure project to be implemented by a not for profit organisation, whether that's civil service or something else.
It fits with nationalised rail, power, water etc. for me as just a fundamental system which any modern country needs to have in place to make things run well in a low corruption, fair and humane implementation of a welfare state. Any authoritarian misuse would need to heavily stamped down upon, but that's a separate issue and one which we already have anyway with the hodge-podge of inefficient and easily corruptible systems we already have.
But if the authoritarians are in power then who stamps down on the misuse ?
Oh, and keep the downvotes coming for my first post in this thread, folks, I am valuing each and every one.
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 08:49 - Jul 11 by itfcjoe
You can get an NI number and employ someone, and pay that person....but if they sub that work out to a friend then what can you do? If the job is on a shop floor you know, if it is a deliveroo driver or a cabbie or something where they don't need to check in then no way of keeping on top of it
You have to prove you have the "right to work" which involves more than an NI number. ID cards are a waste when it's dodgy employers like Amazon who need to take the cost by actually enforcing current employment legislation.
I'm suprised more people haven't voted "strongly against". If having an ID is required for work, this does severely affect people who struggle with organisation to get work.
The world can be hard for people and we shouldn't make it harder.
There isn't going to be an easy fix. The UK can get a lot of data around people's spending already, let's say someone registers a £4k car but clearly doesn't have the right to work in the UK, then go investigate them... Part of the problem is that no-one really wants to solve these problems, but they do want to talk about them a lot to generate a following for power!!...
(I haven't read all the comments, sorry if I'm repeating someone elses input!)
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 09:16 - Jul 11 by Churchman
Trouble is, this government and the previous ones aren’t in the least bit serious about controlling immigration/illegal immigration. The only reason they are coming up with nonsense schemes like Ruanda etc is to make it look like they’re interested because they’re afraid of nutty protest groups like reform messing up their vote.
Back to the question, I agree - an ID card is a must. It can consolidate all sorts of stuff on it including driving licence, medical stuff, just about anything.
The only people afraid of ID cards are those with something to hide - in my opinion.
Well, I've got nothing to hide but am dead set against it. I always find it amazing how people are happy to slowly have their liberties and freedoms eroded.
BlueBlood
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How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:06 - Jul 11 with 391 views
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:01 - Jul 11 by Rimsy
Well, I've got nothing to hide but am dead set against it. I always find it amazing how people are happy to slowly have their liberties and freedoms eroded.
But like others have said, we are all monitored pretty much 24/7 these days, our personal data is everywhere, not that it's right, but it's just a sign of the times.
Unless you want to go in live in some remote village in the outback of the Northern Territory with big Donk, then it's just another form of ID.
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:01 - Jul 11 by Rimsy
Well, I've got nothing to hide but am dead set against it. I always find it amazing how people are happy to slowly have their liberties and freedoms eroded.
How exactly will it have your liberty and freedoms eroded away?
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How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:19 - Jul 11 with 384 views
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:07 - Jul 11 by MattinLondon
How exactly will it have your liberty and freedoms eroded away?
When you get banged up for not having it on your person during a 'suss' on the street. Not likely in the United Kingdom at the moment but China sounds like it does that. Here's what AI gave me:
'In China, residents are legally required to carry their Resident Identity Card. If a Chinese resident is found without their ID card, they may face questioning and potential detention by the police. While there's no specific monetary fine mentioned in the provided documents for not carrying an ID card, the police can detain individuals for identification purposes, and they may be required to go to a police station to verify their identity, which can be inconvenient and time-consuming. Here's a more detailed breakdown: Legal Obligation: Chinese citizens are legally obligated to carry their Resident Identity Card, which serves as proof of identity. Police Powers: Police officers have the authority to request identification from individuals they encounter, especially in situations like criminal investigations, security emergencies, or when required by law. Consequences of Non-Compliance: If a resident cannot produce their ID card when requested, they may be taken to a police station for further identification procedures. Detention and Verification: The police can detain individuals temporarily for identification purposes if they lack proper identification. Temporary Residence Permit: In some cases, if an individual's ID card is lost or being replaced, they may be issued a temporary residence permit as an alternative form of identification. Importance of ID: The Resident Identity Card is crucial for various legal and administrative processes in China, such as opening bank accounts, registering for services, and participating in certain activities.'
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:06 - Jul 11 by hype313
But like others have said, we are all monitored pretty much 24/7 these days, our personal data is everywhere, not that it's right, but it's just a sign of the times.
Unless you want to go in live in some remote village in the outback of the Northern Territory with big Donk, then it's just another form of ID.
I like the idea that they are bad because they might be abused by an authoritarian Government.
As if that Government wouldn't just do it themselves. By the time you have one, it's too late to worry about things as trivial as ID cards.
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 10:15 - Jul 11 by mo_itfc
I'm suprised more people haven't voted "strongly against". If having an ID is required for work, this does severely affect people who struggle with organisation to get work.
The world can be hard for people and we shouldn't make it harder.
There isn't going to be an easy fix. The UK can get a lot of data around people's spending already, let's say someone registers a £4k car but clearly doesn't have the right to work in the UK, then go investigate them... Part of the problem is that no-one really wants to solve these problems, but they do want to talk about them a lot to generate a following for power!!...
(I haven't read all the comments, sorry if I'm repeating someone elses input!)
ID cards would be a major step in stopping illegal immigrants working, criminal money laundering and fraud. The UK is one of the most corrupt countries in Europe as it is very easy for illegal immigrants to get work and invest "dirty money". In Europe an ID card is required to get benefits, employment and many other things. The people who really benefit from no ID cards are criminals and illegals, just think why do so many illegal immigrants travel through so many European countries to get to the UK? It is also worth remembering that they were in the process of being brought in by the Blair Labour Government in 2007and stopped by the Cameron Conservative Government in 2010.
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How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:39 - Jul 11 with 353 views
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 09:55 - Jul 11 by WeWereZombies
But if the authoritarians are in power then who stamps down on the misuse ?
Oh, and keep the downvotes coming for my first post in this thread, folks, I am valuing each and every one.
I wouldn't dream to downvote your post but found the correlation you drew an odd one, for sure. We are a clear outlier in Europe after all and the continent isn't dominated by Reform-like parties, nor were they introduced en masse by Reform-like parties.
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How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:42 - Jul 11 with 346 views
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:29 - Jul 11 by DanTheMan
I like the idea that they are bad because they might be abused by an authoritarian Government.
As if that Government wouldn't just do it themselves. By the time you have one, it's too late to worry about things as trivial as ID cards.
Trivial ?
If, as has been suggested earlier in this thread, the ID Card becomes your driving licence too, perhaps your entry smartcard into public buildings, then it can be used to remove privileges from dissenters. Having seen how cowed by authority some people are as I travel around the World I have to wonder at the naivety of some of what I have read in this series of posts. Then again, sadly it doesn't surprise me that much.
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:36 - Jul 11 by Basuco
ID cards would be a major step in stopping illegal immigrants working, criminal money laundering and fraud. The UK is one of the most corrupt countries in Europe as it is very easy for illegal immigrants to get work and invest "dirty money". In Europe an ID card is required to get benefits, employment and many other things. The people who really benefit from no ID cards are criminals and illegals, just think why do so many illegal immigrants travel through so many European countries to get to the UK? It is also worth remembering that they were in the process of being brought in by the Blair Labour Government in 2007and stopped by the Cameron Conservative Government in 2010.
I think the main reason migrants come to the United Kingdom is because of our language, either because it is their first language or they want to improve their English.
By the way, sorry for going in two footed on you the other day on the 'how much do you need for a complete change of lifestyle' or whatever it was called thread. Lagos later posted that he thought the £43 k per annum came from Which? Believable, they are just as 'nose in the air' only one way of doing things and you must pay through the nose as the BBC. A better World is possible and at less cost to our surroundings.
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 10:15 - Jul 11 by mo_itfc
I'm suprised more people haven't voted "strongly against". If having an ID is required for work, this does severely affect people who struggle with organisation to get work.
The world can be hard for people and we shouldn't make it harder.
There isn't going to be an easy fix. The UK can get a lot of data around people's spending already, let's say someone registers a £4k car but clearly doesn't have the right to work in the UK, then go investigate them... Part of the problem is that no-one really wants to solve these problems, but they do want to talk about them a lot to generate a following for power!!...
(I haven't read all the comments, sorry if I'm repeating someone elses input!)
Why is having to have an ID Card any more of an impediment than other requirements for someone to get a job?
For individuals to get a job they have to provide some documentation, if having an ID card is standard and agreed for everyone, I would argue that it simplifies and standardizes the requirements.
Be interested to understand how it would make it more difficult?
[Post edited 11 Jul 11:50]
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How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:56 - Jul 11 with 333 views
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 08:29 - Jul 11 by WeWereZombies
And if you are employing someone and you don't get a valid National Insurance number from them then you are probably a dodgy employer - and a much bigger problem than migrants without valid identity documents.
The number voting in favour of ID cards on this poll makes me wonder if Chico is right and the United Kingdom voters are deluded enough to vote in Reform at the next election.
The problem isn’t with employed staff, it’s the self employed who are the issue. There’s frequently no check on them, hence the ease with which, for example, food delivery gigs are transferred to someone else.
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How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:56 - Jul 11 with 333 views
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:19 - Jul 11 by WeWereZombies
When you get banged up for not having it on your person during a 'suss' on the street. Not likely in the United Kingdom at the moment but China sounds like it does that. Here's what AI gave me:
'In China, residents are legally required to carry their Resident Identity Card. If a Chinese resident is found without their ID card, they may face questioning and potential detention by the police. While there's no specific monetary fine mentioned in the provided documents for not carrying an ID card, the police can detain individuals for identification purposes, and they may be required to go to a police station to verify their identity, which can be inconvenient and time-consuming. Here's a more detailed breakdown: Legal Obligation: Chinese citizens are legally obligated to carry their Resident Identity Card, which serves as proof of identity. Police Powers: Police officers have the authority to request identification from individuals they encounter, especially in situations like criminal investigations, security emergencies, or when required by law. Consequences of Non-Compliance: If a resident cannot produce their ID card when requested, they may be taken to a police station for further identification procedures. Detention and Verification: The police can detain individuals temporarily for identification purposes if they lack proper identification. Temporary Residence Permit: In some cases, if an individual's ID card is lost or being replaced, they may be issued a temporary residence permit as an alternative form of identification. Importance of ID: The Resident Identity Card is crucial for various legal and administrative processes in China, such as opening bank accounts, registering for services, and participating in certain activities.'
China is a totalitarian state - using China as an example is extreme to say the least.
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How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:58 - Jul 11 with 330 views
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:06 - Jul 11 by hype313
But like others have said, we are all monitored pretty much 24/7 these days, our personal data is everywhere, not that it's right, but it's just a sign of the times.
Unless you want to go in live in some remote village in the outback of the Northern Territory with big Donk, then it's just another form of ID.
That's exactly my point. We are the most spied upon nation on earth, all for just going about daily life. The last 30 years or so we've had all these unnecessary controls slowly foisted upon us. These are all implemented piecemeal over decades so hopefully no one notices. I already have a birth certificate, driving licence, ni number, NHS number. I don't need an I. D. Card.
BlueBlood
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How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 12:05 - Jul 11 with 322 views
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:39 - Jul 11 by Smoresy
I wouldn't dream to downvote your post but found the correlation you drew an odd one, for sure. We are a clear outlier in Europe after all and the continent isn't dominated by Reform-like parties, nor were they introduced en masse by Reform-like parties.
Are you unaware of Orban in Hungary, of the National Rally having around one third of the vote in France, of Poland's so called Law and Justice party and, especially, Meloni being President of Italy ? There are other examples from the Slovak Republic to Moldova, in the Iberian Peninsula and those oh so tolerant Netherlanders.
However, identity cards in Europe predate the rise of that most unpopular movement, populism, and largely started around the Second World War. Strange that once the war ended the United Kingdom gave up on the idea but once occupied continental Europe carried it on. The Schengen Agreement strengthened their use but, unless there is a massive leap from Labour into a more complete European Economic Area, the United Kingdom has no such need. Far better to spend any available funds on improving National Insurance compliance and driver registration in my view.
My Reform remark wasn't really a correlation, more of a back handed snipe at what I see as the docile way people just respond to half arsed initiatives as if they will solve anything much. Please feel free to down vote me, I'm hoping to be at least in double figures by the time I come back from lunch.
How would you feel about a UK Identity Card? on 11:56 - Jul 11 by MattinLondon
China is a totalitarian state - using China as an example is extreme to say the least.
China is economically powerful and exports a great deal of equipment. I don't want to go antivax panic spreader on this but in a connected World your dismissal of my example is premature, I would prefer some reasoning rather than assumptions. Again this is what AI gives me when I look at a recent scandal (and I've probably blown my chances of visiting China next year now...)
'Huawei's involvement in global 5G networks and other telecommunications infrastructure has raised significant concerns about potential espionage and national security risks. These concerns center around the possibility that the Chinese government could leverage Huawei's technology for surveillance or sabotage. While Huawei denies these allegations, some countries have taken steps to limit or ban the company's participation in their 5G networks. Key Concerns: Chinese Intelligence Law: The 2017 Chinese National Intelligence Law requires organizations to support and collaborate with national intelligence efforts, raising concerns that Huawei could be compelled to cooperate with Chinese intelligence agencies. Potential for Backdoors: There are fears that Huawei's equipment could contain hidden backdoors or vulnerabilities that would allow for unauthorized access and data interception. Lack of Transparency: Huawei's ownership structure and its relationships with the Chinese government have been criticized as opaque, making it difficult to assess the extent of any potential influence or control. Cybersecurity Competence: Some reports have identified weaknesses in Huawei's cybersecurity practices, further fueling concerns about the potential for exploitation. Impact on 5G Networks: Huawei is a major player in 5G technology, and its involvement in critical infrastructure networks raises the stakes for potential security breaches. Responses: Bans and Restrictions: Several countries, including the United States, Australia, and Japan, have effectively banned or restricted Huawei's participation in their 5G networks. Security Reviews: The UK established the Huawei Cyber Security Evaluation Centre to monitor the company's activities and assess the security risks associated with its technology. "No-Spy" Agreements: Huawei has offered to sign "no-spy" agreements with governments, committing to ensuring its equipment meets specific security standards. Managing Risk: Some countries have adopted strategies to manage the risks associated with Huawei's involvement, such as limiting its participation in core network components or implementing multi-vendor strategies. Huawei's Response: Denials: Huawei has consistently denied all allegations of espionage and has stated that it would never compromise user privacy or national security. Commitment to Security: Huawei emphasizes its commitment to cybersecurity and has invested heavily in improving its security practices. Transparency: Huawei has expressed a willingness to be more transparent about its operations and ownership structure. Conclusion: The Huawei spying controversy highlights the complex interplay between technology, national security, and international relations. While Huawei maintains its innocence and has taken steps to address security concerns, the potential risks associated with its involvement in critical infrastructure remain a subject of ongoing debate and scrutiny.'
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