| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? 20:38 - Aug 31 with 1521 views | PacittiJohn |
He should be banned for the season at least. Worst thing I’ve ever seen on a football pitch, and could have maimed Jens for life. |  | | |  |
| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 20:44 - Aug 31 with 1457 views | Swansea_Blue |
Bizarrely, no. Maybe there’s a chance of an exception, but incidents of dangerous play are normally not reviewed retrospectively if the ref saw the incident. They’re worried the ref’s authority might be undermined. Whereas a kick in the face is fine, obviously  . |  |
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| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 21:31 - Aug 31 with 1297 views | urbanpenguin |
I have wondered if things that happen on the football pitch could also have criminal action. For example, when Roy Keane clearly committed GBH against Haaland he was sent off, but why did police not also arrest him him on the spot? If anybody else did that in their place of work they'd be arrested.
There's a funny threshold with football, where things in the "game" are somehow outside of normal life (this goes for abuse of individual players from the crowd as much as player on player action) and I've never quite understood it. If a policeman at the match saw what they felt was assault, in the game or off it, they are professionally instructed to intervene, but they would not of it was within the white lines, only things outside of it. |  | | |
| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 21:55 - Aug 31 with 1192 views | ITFCSG |
| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 21:31 - Aug 31 by urbanpenguin |
I have wondered if things that happen on the football pitch could also have criminal action. For example, when Roy Keane clearly committed GBH against Haaland he was sent off, but why did police not also arrest him him on the spot? If anybody else did that in their place of work they'd be arrested.
There's a funny threshold with football, where things in the "game" are somehow outside of normal life (this goes for abuse of individual players from the crowd as much as player on player action) and I've never quite understood it. If a policeman at the match saw what they felt was assault, in the game or off it, they are professionally instructed to intervene, but they would not of it was within the white lines, only things outside of it. |
It is possible, but the threshold is very high in contact sports
Probably needs to fulfil
1. No provocation by victim and
2. Deliberate assault
3. Reach the minimal threshold level to be criminal
The second and third point is hard to prove, especially in competitive sports like football where fouls are committed "in the heat of the moment"
See R v Davies [1991] Crim LR 70
Fractured cheekbone caused by one player punching another while taking a free kick resulted in 6 months imprisonment
Keane's foul on Haaland probably would have met all the criteria and sent him to jail should Haaland have made a police report or taken private action against him. CPS obviously didn't bother to take note. Travis' kick last night, not so clear cut. | | | |
| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 22:07 - Aug 31 with 1116 views | ParisBlue |
| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 21:31 - Aug 31 by urbanpenguin |
I have wondered if things that happen on the football pitch could also have criminal action. For example, when Roy Keane clearly committed GBH against Haaland he was sent off, but why did police not also arrest him him on the spot? If anybody else did that in their place of work they'd be arrested.
There's a funny threshold with football, where things in the "game" are somehow outside of normal life (this goes for abuse of individual players from the crowd as much as player on player action) and I've never quite understood it. If a policeman at the match saw what they felt was assault, in the game or off it, they are professionally instructed to intervene, but they would not of it was within the white lines, only things outside of it. |
Duncan Ferguson was jailed for a headbutt on the field whilst playing for Rangers. |  |
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| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 22:12 - Aug 31 with 1082 views | urbanpenguin |
| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 21:55 - Aug 31 by ITFCSG |
It is possible, but the threshold is very high in contact sports
Probably needs to fulfil
1. No provocation by victim and
2. Deliberate assault
3. Reach the minimal threshold level to be criminal
The second and third point is hard to prove, especially in competitive sports like football where fouls are committed "in the heat of the moment"
See R v Davies [1991] Crim LR 70
Fractured cheekbone caused by one player punching another while taking a free kick resulted in 6 months imprisonment
Keane's foul on Haaland probably would have met all the criteria and sent him to jail should Haaland have made a police report or taken private action against him. CPS obviously didn't bother to take note. Travis' kick last night, not so clear cut. |
this is all true for actual conviction, but if walking down the street a policeman saw someone assault another in the way Travis did Cajuste, then they would intervene immediately and these other legal issues would follow down the line.
But in football, one side of the white line has different (legal) rules it seems. I do understand issues of threshold, and I also understand the anger or hate a policeman may get immediately and in the aftermath of any involvement, but it is their literal job to intervene if they see what the suspect in the moment as potentially a crime, but to my (layman) knowledge a football pitch is the one place of work I don't think it has happened. | | | |
| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 22:40 - Aug 31 with 969 views | ITFCSG |
| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 22:12 - Aug 31 by urbanpenguin |
this is all true for actual conviction, but if walking down the street a policeman saw someone assault another in the way Travis did Cajuste, then they would intervene immediately and these other legal issues would follow down the line.
But in football, one side of the white line has different (legal) rules it seems. I do understand issues of threshold, and I also understand the anger or hate a policeman may get immediately and in the aftermath of any involvement, but it is their literal job to intervene if they see what the suspect in the moment as potentially a crime, but to my (layman) knowledge a football pitch is the one place of work I don't think it has happened. |
It is
I am not sure but I suspect the courts are reluctant to get too involved in regulation of sport as they see it as the purview of the FA or whatever sporting regulator that sport is under. Boxing is even worse, people have been killed in bouts but you don't see the courts getting involved or any boxer being charged with manslaughter.
What exactly the threshold to make an act on the field criminal is also not easy as it is challenging to use an objective standard due to fan bias. It is very different from say, beating someone up on the street, molest or murder.
Intent is also very difficult to prove in a sporting context most of the time when the foul is committed as part of a tackle - in R v Davies it was clear because the player ran up to his opposite number and punched him in the face before taking a free kick. Remember, Keane was only retrospectively charged after his memoir came out where he (stupidly) admitted his intent to injure Haaland. The ref wouldn't have known his intent in that split second when he committed the foul, much less the police or the CPS. [Post edited 31 Aug 22:40]
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| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 23:43 - Aug 31 with 843 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
It looks disgraceful from that ITV angle I have seen. However, we gain nothing from him being banned now (unless the ban is in force when we play them again). In fact, it is likely to weaken against teams we would rather dropped points against them. |  |
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| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 07:17 - Sep 1 with 611 views | Sharkey |
| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 21:31 - Aug 31 by urbanpenguin |
I have wondered if things that happen on the football pitch could also have criminal action. For example, when Roy Keane clearly committed GBH against Haaland he was sent off, but why did police not also arrest him him on the spot? If anybody else did that in their place of work they'd be arrested.
There's a funny threshold with football, where things in the "game" are somehow outside of normal life (this goes for abuse of individual players from the crowd as much as player on player action) and I've never quite understood it. If a policeman at the match saw what they felt was assault, in the game or off it, they are professionally instructed to intervene, but they would not of it was within the white lines, only things outside of it. |
I was at the Colchester - Millwall game in 1980 when a policeman arrested Mel Blyth for swearing at his own goalkeeper, as Colchester were about to take a corner at the Layer Road end.
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/sport/18717122.today-40th-anniversary-us-policema
Another thing I remember about the day is the police dogs lined up between the pitch and the Millwall fans. (Anyone who went to Layer Road will know how tight it was behind the goal there.) |  | | |
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| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 07:26 - Sep 1 with 555 views | BlueOura |
"He should be banned for the season at least"
I mean it was horrible stuff from Travis and I'd like to see further punishment for him, but that is way over the top. |  | | |
| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 10:29 - Sep 1 with 204 views | southnorfolkblue |
| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 21:55 - Aug 31 by ITFCSG |
It is possible, but the threshold is very high in contact sports
Probably needs to fulfil
1. No provocation by victim and
2. Deliberate assault
3. Reach the minimal threshold level to be criminal
The second and third point is hard to prove, especially in competitive sports like football where fouls are committed "in the heat of the moment"
See R v Davies [1991] Crim LR 70
Fractured cheekbone caused by one player punching another while taking a free kick resulted in 6 months imprisonment
Keane's foul on Haaland probably would have met all the criteria and sent him to jail should Haaland have made a police report or taken private action against him. CPS obviously didn't bother to take note. Travis' kick last night, not so clear cut. |
As you say prosecution is possible but rare.
Isn’t happening here in a month of Sundays for all the reasons you cite | |
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| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 10:31 - Sep 1 with 180 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 22:07 - Aug 31 by ParisBlue |
Duncan Ferguson was jailed for a headbutt on the field whilst playing for Rangers. |
Under Scottish Law. That sets no precedent for an incident in Suffolk. | | | |
| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 10:36 - Sep 1 with 153 views | _clive_baker_ |
As others have said its probably not in our interests of a club who play WBA, Wrexham, Saints etc over the next few games, all of which are likely to be above Derby come May.
What I find bizarre is the ref saw it, hence he booked him, but only deemed it worth a yellow card. I'd be interested to understand his justification, he's either seen him kick him in the head off the ball or he hasn't. |  | | |
| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 10:46 - Sep 1 with 82 views | Wickets |
| The stamp on Jens. Can the club bring an action against Travis? on 10:36 - Sep 1 by _clive_baker_ |
As others have said its probably not in our interests of a club who play WBA, Wrexham, Saints etc over the next few games, all of which are likely to be above Derby come May.
What I find bizarre is the ref saw it, hence he booked him, but only deemed it worth a yellow card. I'd be interested to understand his justification, he's either seen him kick him in the head off the ball or he hasn't. |
Yes should have been a Red for a player who quite likely felt he should have been offered a contract after his decent loan period at Town ? |  | | |
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