| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf 21:08 - Sep 9 with 10352 views | chantryblueboy |
LOL |  | | |  |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 15:59 - Sep 10 with 625 views | itfcjoe |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 15:50 - Sep 10 by FrimleyBlue |
I honestly don't understand why it's questionned tbh, Oshea wins 3 times the number of ground duals than wolfy, it's not highly surprising KM wanted more form his defenders.
Burgess in the champ - 59% ground duals Greaves - 96%
Wolfy in the champ 15% ground duals Oshea 66% in the prem for ground duals
Both CB replacement's have indeed had their own individual errors, but OFF the ball, they are both incredibly solid defenders and the minimal XGA is testament this season to how good they are as defenders. On the ball is different matter entirely, however we appear to play differently with the ball than we did in 23 anyway. [Post edited 10 Sep 15:51]
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I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers from but they are incorrect - may be mixing percentiles with percentages
Woolfie in Champ - 64%
Greaves in Champ - 69%
Burgess in Champ - 71%
O'Shea in PL - 61% |  |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 16:01 - Sep 10 with 611 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 15:59 - Sep 10 by itfcjoe |
I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers from but they are incorrect - may be mixing percentiles with percentages
Woolfie in Champ - 64%
Greaves in Champ - 69%
Burgess in Champ - 71%
O'Shea in PL - 61% |
Footy stats- am i reading it wrong? it says percentile, what am i missing with these? have i described them incorrectly? [Post edited 10 Sep 16:06]
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 16:05 - Sep 10 with 596 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 15:57 - Sep 10 by chantryblueboy |
It’s so obvious that you don’t understand how different styles of play affect these stats, or how good Wolf is off the ball |
Asking a genuine question
How does a different style of play effect the ground dual success rate and aerial success rate,
Im open to education on this, so ill apologise if i see it wrong but i dont get how the style effects these specific things. You're either very good at them or you aren't. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 16:06 - Sep 10 with 584 views | itfcjoe |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 16:01 - Sep 10 by FrimleyBlue |
Footy stats- am i reading it wrong? it says percentile, what am i missing with these? have i described them incorrectly? [Post edited 10 Sep 16:06]
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I imagine you are reading where they are ranked amongst other defenders as their actual success rate | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 16:07 - Sep 10 with 581 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 16:06 - Sep 10 by itfcjoe |
I imagine you are reading where they are ranked amongst other defenders as their actual success rate |
So it's still a relevent stat % or have i fked my argument up lol | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 16:20 - Sep 10 with 534 views | itfcjoe |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 16:07 - Sep 10 by FrimleyBlue |
So it's still a relevent stat % or have i fked my argument up lol |
It's relelvant in that they are higher ranked but not to say things like he wins 5 times as many, when reality is they win 5 more out of every 100
It's all part of the picture, but the biggest difference is they physicality | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 16:21 - Sep 10 with 531 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 16:20 - Sep 10 by itfcjoe |
It's relelvant in that they are higher ranked but not to say things like he wins 5 times as many, when reality is they win 5 more out of every 100
It's all part of the picture, but the biggest difference is they physicality |
Thanks | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 16:35 - Sep 10 with 494 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 16:05 - Sep 10 by FrimleyBlue |
Asking a genuine question
How does a different style of play effect the ground dual success rate and aerial success rate,
Im open to education on this, so ill apologise if i see it wrong but i dont get how the style effects these specific things. You're either very good at them or you aren't. |
Because someone that tackles less and uses positioning and interceptions a la Wolf will make less tackles, and the tackles they do make will likely be more difficult as they will be in a position they don’t want to be in.
A few stats for you that back this up, from last season (in the Prem!!) - these are all just for centre backs, per Fotmob
Wolf was in the 84th percentile for interceptions per 90
Wolf was in the 75th percentile for blocked shots per 90
Wolf was in the 78th percentile for fewest times dribbled past per 90
And was in the 65th percentile for tackles won as a percentage per 90
O’Shea ranks far below him in these stats
So effectively what you’re doing is saying that every centre back should play on the ‘front foot’ like O’Shea which leads to him making more tackles and being in more duels, and if they don’t then the fact that O’Shea does this more than them makes him a superior centre back. My argument is that O’Shea has to make more tackles because his positioning is poor, which to me is the most important attribute a centre back can have. | | | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 16:57 - Sep 10 with 441 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 16:35 - Sep 10 by chantryblueboy |
Because someone that tackles less and uses positioning and interceptions a la Wolf will make less tackles, and the tackles they do make will likely be more difficult as they will be in a position they don’t want to be in.
A few stats for you that back this up, from last season (in the Prem!!) - these are all just for centre backs, per Fotmob
Wolf was in the 84th percentile for interceptions per 90
Wolf was in the 75th percentile for blocked shots per 90
Wolf was in the 78th percentile for fewest times dribbled past per 90
And was in the 65th percentile for tackles won as a percentage per 90
O’Shea ranks far below him in these stats
So effectively what you’re doing is saying that every centre back should play on the ‘front foot’ like O’Shea which leads to him making more tackles and being in more duels, and if they don’t then the fact that O’Shea does this more than them makes him a superior centre back. My argument is that O’Shea has to make more tackles because his positioning is poor, which to me is the most important attribute a centre back can have. |
Who do you think better suits the system, and how Kieran wants the CBs to play?
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 17:03 - Sep 10 with 417 views | pointofblue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 14:11 - Sep 10 by Everydayblue |
Prefer to defend our Club Captain and our Club.
Rather than Ex players that asked to leave.
This is my opinion. You can have yours. |
So you would deride the likes of Burgess, Morsy, Broadhead and Chaplin in a similar way? | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 17:05 - Sep 10 with 414 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 16:35 - Sep 10 by chantryblueboy |
Because someone that tackles less and uses positioning and interceptions a la Wolf will make less tackles, and the tackles they do make will likely be more difficult as they will be in a position they don’t want to be in.
A few stats for you that back this up, from last season (in the Prem!!) - these are all just for centre backs, per Fotmob
Wolf was in the 84th percentile for interceptions per 90
Wolf was in the 75th percentile for blocked shots per 90
Wolf was in the 78th percentile for fewest times dribbled past per 90
And was in the 65th percentile for tackles won as a percentage per 90
O’Shea ranks far below him in these stats
So effectively what you’re doing is saying that every centre back should play on the ‘front foot’ like O’Shea which leads to him making more tackles and being in more duels, and if they don’t then the fact that O’Shea does this more than them makes him a superior centre back. My argument is that O’Shea has to make more tackles because his positioning is poor, which to me is the most important attribute a centre back can have. |
What are Oshea's stats just for interest
It's not really me saying defenders should do anything, but I think its more of what KM wants from his defenders, Oshea I don't feel has awful positioning, id say he's more up the back of the strikers than wolfy which kinda goes along with your view about wolfy maybe holding off and looking to defend in other ways, I suppose with Oshea's pace, he can get tight as if he's lost his man hes got more chance of getting back compared to wolfy.
I don't agree Oshea has to make more tackles as his positioning is poor, I think it's more of what KM wants from him as a defender to be a stopper over a ball playing cb.
I think the issue here is you're seeing people who like oshea as anti woolfenden, when its not really a case of being anti woolfenden it's more appreciating with KM wants from his defenders and that is clearly something oshea is better at, that doesn;t make wolfy a bad defender, it just means that oshea has the better attributes to do what km wants and that also explains the extra value between players because wolfy is limited with certain defensive requirements. [Post edited 10 Sep 17:09]
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 17:06 - Sep 10 with 412 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 17:03 - Sep 10 by pointofblue |
So you would deride the likes of Burgess, Morsy, Broadhead and Chaplin in a similar way? |
Only 1 player went to tik tok and that wasnt even wantaway hutchinson either........
I do mention that in jest, it's a shame wolfy did it imo as i think that kinda adds to the pot of why some people aren't unhappy to see him go as if he's happy to take to public socials like that, what's he been like behind the scenes, esp when other players commented on just wanting the window closed and players who wanted to be there were known etc [Post edited 10 Sep 17:11]
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 17:24 - Sep 10 with 367 views | pointofblue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 17:06 - Sep 10 by FrimleyBlue |
Only 1 player went to tik tok and that wasnt even wantaway hutchinson either........
I do mention that in jest, it's a shame wolfy did it imo as i think that kinda adds to the pot of why some people aren't unhappy to see him go as if he's happy to take to public socials like that, what's he been like behind the scenes, esp when other players commented on just wanting the window closed and players who wanted to be there were known etc [Post edited 10 Sep 17:11]
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Yeah Hutchinson just didn't bother to turn up. Woolfenden was in four of the five squads before he left.
Sorry, know you said it in jest but still, I don't think he would have been had he been playing up badly behind the scenes. He would have been told to keep away from the training ground.
I think people are making far more out of the Instagram post than is necessary. Saying that, I think I could start a whole new thread dissecting it. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 17:32 - Sep 10 with 341 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 17:24 - Sep 10 by pointofblue |
Yeah Hutchinson just didn't bother to turn up. Woolfenden was in four of the five squads before he left.
Sorry, know you said it in jest but still, I don't think he would have been had he been playing up badly behind the scenes. He would have been told to keep away from the training ground.
I think people are making far more out of the Instagram post than is necessary. Saying that, I think I could start a whole new thread dissecting it. |
I don't think it's a case of playing up badly, more that players talk, and if he's happy to publically show a state of frustration, then it's highly likely he'd have been vocal behind the scenes, doens't equate to bad behaviour or anything or a reason to drop from a squad esp as he was the back up to Oshea, and at times its needs must, but it's a bit of a sour end to a long town career. I don't think the instagram posts needs dissecting, it was a show of frustration, poorly done and not something I believe any player should ever do, I know if I posted about work on social platforms, it would be frowned upon so no issue with supporters feeling the same about it.
Hutchinson, well that's another discussion isn't it, poorly advised, but his whole career has been agent lead so it's not a surprise. If his move back to the prem doesnt work, I could imagine another Simpson honest review about his previous decisions. [Post edited 10 Sep 17:37]
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 17:39 - Sep 10 with 316 views | You_Bloo_Right |
Two good CBs that Woolfenden and O'Shea IMO.
However only one of them is our player now.
If we're going to get all misty-eyed about defensive ex-players, though, I'll have a reincarnated Beattie back please. |  |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 17:47 - Sep 10 with 288 views | pointofblue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 17:32 - Sep 10 by FrimleyBlue |
I don't think it's a case of playing up badly, more that players talk, and if he's happy to publically show a state of frustration, then it's highly likely he'd have been vocal behind the scenes, doens't equate to bad behaviour or anything or a reason to drop from a squad esp as he was the back up to Oshea, and at times its needs must, but it's a bit of a sour end to a long town career. I don't think the instagram posts needs dissecting, it was a show of frustration, poorly done and not something I believe any player should ever do, I know if I posted about work on social platforms, it would be frowned upon so no issue with supporters feeling the same about it.
Hutchinson, well that's another discussion isn't it, poorly advised, but his whole career has been agent lead so it's not a surprise. If his move back to the prem doesnt work, I could imagine another Simpson honest review about his previous decisions. [Post edited 10 Sep 17:37]
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It's odd, thinking about it. McKenna made it clear he wanted Woolfenden to stay as he was valuable to the squad, yet we didn't bring anyone in to replace him. We're happy enough to go with Kipre and Baggott as the back ups until January. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 17:58 - Sep 10 with 263 views | positivity |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 17:47 - Sep 10 by pointofblue |
It's odd, thinking about it. McKenna made it clear he wanted Woolfenden to stay as he was valuable to the squad, yet we didn't bring anyone in to replace him. We're happy enough to go with Kipre and Baggott as the back ups until January. |
he was only let go once furlong came in, suggests he thinks that's adequate cover along the back line | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 18:01 - Sep 10 with 261 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 17:47 - Sep 10 by pointofblue |
It's odd, thinking about it. McKenna made it clear he wanted Woolfenden to stay as he was valuable to the squad, yet we didn't bring anyone in to replace him. We're happy enough to go with Kipre and Baggott as the back ups until January. |
I must admit, looking at Kipre's stats it doesn't look convincing, but then maybe he'd compliment Greaves if he ever had to partner him, I dunno | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 18:16 - Sep 10 with 223 views | franz_tyson |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 18:01 - Sep 10 by FrimleyBlue |
I must admit, looking at Kipre's stats it doesn't look convincing, but then maybe he'd compliment Greaves if he ever had to partner him, I dunno |
Question for you, mate.. do you ever watch football or just look at stats?
This isn't a computer game or whatever. Kipre was WB's POTS a couple of season's back.
Sorry, but I think stats can assist, tweak and/or optimise at a higher level, but what the f@ck is wrong with going mostly with a gut feeling or opinion . Bit old school, I know.. | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 18:34 - Sep 10 with 193 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 18:16 - Sep 10 by franz_tyson |
Question for you, mate.. do you ever watch football or just look at stats?
This isn't a computer game or whatever. Kipre was WB's POTS a couple of season's back.
Sorry, but I think stats can assist, tweak and/or optimise at a higher level, but what the f@ck is wrong with going mostly with a gut feeling or opinion . Bit old school, I know.. |
I didn't watch much of West Broms games no, and don't really follow the french league, so in this discussion about Kipre, I guess I can only discuss it based on stats esp after the discussion within this thread about them too. Theres lots of positive ones there, but based on the discussion within this thread, it's an interesting insight in the way I view his, rightly or wrongly, they are of similar ilk to Wolfy in regards to ground duals, so It's not really an Oshea back up imo as he's perhaps not a similar player, and is and I believe what most believe he came in as - a Greaves back up for the lcb role. So if Oshea did get injured or suspended, Im intrigued to see how Kipre would do IF called upon to play the Oshea role.
Also regarding "but what the f@ck is wrong with going mostly with a gut feeling or opinion "
I was advised previously that opinions should be covered with evidence, so im doing my best to back up my opinions with this info. [Post edited 10 Sep 18:37]
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 18:48 - Sep 10 with 145 views | pointofblue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 17:58 - Sep 10 by positivity |
he was only let go once furlong came in, suggests he thinks that's adequate cover along the back line |
That's a fair point - I'd forgotten about Furlong! | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 20:53 - Sep 10 with 25 views | TheBoyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 10:41 - Sep 10 by BlueForYou |
It was against Derby County. |
They're not perfect. But generally we've seemed solid. Apart from Derby we've only conceded a goal a game, which isn't dreadful. We've been struggling in front of goal but hopefully the new signings will change this. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 20:59 - Sep 10 with 18 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 20:53 - Sep 10 by TheBoyBlue |
They're not perfect. But generally we've seemed solid. Apart from Derby we've only conceded a goal a game, which isn't dreadful. We've been struggling in front of goal but hopefully the new signings will change this. |
On the other hand, we haven’t kept a clean sheet | | | |
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