| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf 21:08 - Sep 9 with 3370 views | chantryblueboy |
LOL |  | | |  |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 21:54 - Sep 9 with 592 views | Smoresy |
I am one of them, despite that clip and despite O'Shea's terrible error against Derby. I thought Woolf struggled with the physical challenge against Bromley to he honest, though that doesn't mean I think he's L2 standard lol. I want to see him starting and playing well for Cov. | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 21:56 - Sep 9 with 569 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 21:50 - Sep 9 by chantryblueboy |
We’ll see how the 2 of them get on this season, won’t we. O’Shea has had a stellar start |
Oshea
Top 87% for aerial duels
Only dribbled past once
Top 88% for clearances.
Top 86% for shots blocked
Top 94% for pass success. ( going against my own thoughts on ball playing)
Ground duels actually is pretty crap though. But then that wasn't wolfts strong point anyway.
So yeah overall oshea has had a stellar start really. |  |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 21:58 - Sep 9 with 555 views | Dubtractor |
Yeah, lets all dig out our players.
Great effort lads. |  |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 21:58 - Sep 9 with 550 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 21:56 - Sep 9 by FrimleyBlue |
Oshea
Top 87% for aerial duels
Only dribbled past once
Top 88% for clearances.
Top 86% for shots blocked
Top 94% for pass success. ( going against my own thoughts on ball playing)
Ground duels actually is pretty crap though. But then that wasn't wolfts strong point anyway.
So yeah overall oshea has had a stellar start really. |
He chested the ball down to Brewster in the Derby game and he scored from it
He just watched his man walk past him to concede what ended up being the winning goal
Funnily enough neither of those mistakes count towards the stats you so revere, so presumably go towards good performances in your eyes? | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:02 - Sep 9 with 515 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 21:53 - Sep 9 by pointofblue |
There is an an adoration of O'Shea on here which the stats perhaps bear up but the eye test doesn't. This is an example. The way barely anything was said after his mistake against Derby is a another one.
Is he a good defender? For the most part. Is he worth up to £15m, £11m more than Woolfenden? Not for me. Another overspend when looking at relative squad improvement. |
The reason not much was made of his chest error was because it was an action done many times through out games and 9 times out of 10 that ball bounces down and he's in control. If we are looking at those incidents then there are many that wolfy was guilty of let alone bad touches, tripping over the ball at times etc.
Can absolutely be sure if town were sitting top right now wolfy oshea comparisons wouldn't be discussed. The issues however we have clearly are not defensive it's up the top end.
Those believing wolfy is better than oshea are simply those who love an academy player. Stats. Selection. Performances all show oshea is the better defender. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:03 - Sep 9 with 505 views | LeoMuff |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 21:58 - Sep 9 by chantryblueboy |
He chested the ball down to Brewster in the Derby game and he scored from it
He just watched his man walk past him to concede what ended up being the winning goal
Funnily enough neither of those mistakes count towards the stats you so revere, so presumably go towards good performances in your eyes? |
Of course Wolf never makes any howlers lol |  |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:05 - Sep 9 with 492 views | Moriarty |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 21:46 - Sep 9 by NthQldITFC |
Reichenbach Balls! |
Long Balls, Direct Balls. Then it’s Reichenbach time and down the Swanee we go.
He can pass and move it around and is generally good at that, but, I’m sorry to say, for me, I’ve too many reservations about him defensively. |  |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:06 - Sep 9 with 488 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 21:58 - Sep 9 by chantryblueboy |
He chested the ball down to Brewster in the Derby game and he scored from it
He just watched his man walk past him to concede what ended up being the winning goal
Funnily enough neither of those mistakes count towards the stats you so revere, so presumably go towards good performances in your eyes? |
Yes he tried keeping hold of the ball which defenders under KM are asked to do. It unfortunately went pear shaped it happens.
If you watch the game back you'll see he and greaves did the same chest down a few times. That's football under KM. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:06 - Sep 9 with 482 views | pointofblue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:02 - Sep 9 by FrimleyBlue |
The reason not much was made of his chest error was because it was an action done many times through out games and 9 times out of 10 that ball bounces down and he's in control. If we are looking at those incidents then there are many that wolfy was guilty of let alone bad touches, tripping over the ball at times etc.
Can absolutely be sure if town were sitting top right now wolfy oshea comparisons wouldn't be discussed. The issues however we have clearly are not defensive it's up the top end.
Those believing wolfy is better than oshea are simply those who love an academy player. Stats. Selection. Performances all show oshea is the better defender. |
Well, yes, because we'd look effective defensively. It's nothing to do with Woolfenden being an academy player unless Burgess was one too.
Your dislike of Woolfenden is well known. My dislike of O'Shea is growing. So I don't think we'll agree on this lol | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:06 - Sep 9 with 484 views | billabasblue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:02 - Sep 9 by FrimleyBlue |
The reason not much was made of his chest error was because it was an action done many times through out games and 9 times out of 10 that ball bounces down and he's in control. If we are looking at those incidents then there are many that wolfy was guilty of let alone bad touches, tripping over the ball at times etc.
Can absolutely be sure if town were sitting top right now wolfy oshea comparisons wouldn't be discussed. The issues however we have clearly are not defensive it's up the top end.
Those believing wolfy is better than oshea are simply those who love an academy player. Stats. Selection. Performances all show oshea is the better defender. |
Yes O’Shea is a long way ahead of Woolfy ability wise and value wise , I think £4m was a cracking price for Woolfy great town servant and good bloke but had he not been an academy player nobody would have cared less that he was sold as he was a fringe player who wasn’t going to get any real game time for us ! | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:08 - Sep 9 with 461 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:06 - Sep 9 by FrimleyBlue |
Yes he tried keeping hold of the ball which defenders under KM are asked to do. It unfortunately went pear shaped it happens.
If you watch the game back you'll see he and greaves did the same chest down a few times. That's football under KM. |
Don’t recall Wolf giving the ball away and it leading to goals very often under the same manager. Can you name me 1 from the last Championship season?
No didn’t think so
Is there a stat for that? | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:09 - Sep 9 with 452 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:06 - Sep 9 by billabasblue |
Yes O’Shea is a long way ahead of Woolfy ability wise and value wise , I think £4m was a cracking price for Woolfy great town servant and good bloke but had he not been an academy player nobody would have cared less that he was sold as he was a fringe player who wasn’t going to get any real game time for us ! |
So true mate, exactly the same for Burgess, Chaplin, Broadhead etc etc isn’t it. Too many people getting bloody sentimental about academy players
Idiot | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:09 - Sep 9 with 450 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:06 - Sep 9 by pointofblue |
Well, yes, because we'd look effective defensively. It's nothing to do with Woolfenden being an academy player unless Burgess was one too.
Your dislike of Woolfenden is well known. My dislike of O'Shea is growing. So I don't think we'll agree on this lol |
Woah there. No dislike of wolfy from me. You're confusing me for arnie.
Wolfy is a ball playing cb. That's his skillset. We've moved on from that requirment. To our detriment? Perhaps in certain games. But defensively we have improved. It's when people say the defense it worse that I believe they are wrong, defence is fine. We just need to start scoring the chances we are creating. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:11 - Sep 9 with 421 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:09 - Sep 9 by FrimleyBlue |
Woah there. No dislike of wolfy from me. You're confusing me for arnie.
Wolfy is a ball playing cb. That's his skillset. We've moved on from that requirment. To our detriment? Perhaps in certain games. But defensively we have improved. It's when people say the defense it worse that I believe they are wrong, defence is fine. We just need to start scoring the chances we are creating. |
You’ve literally just made a point that O’Shea cost us a goal as he was asked to play with the ball, so clearly we haven’t evolved past that being a requirement | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:12 - Sep 9 with 415 views | pointofblue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:08 - Sep 9 by chantryblueboy |
Don’t recall Wolf giving the ball away and it leading to goals very often under the same manager. Can you name me 1 from the last Championship season?
No didn’t think so
Is there a stat for that? |
Woolfenden was one of the most disliked players of the promotion squad. Look at the reaction to the likes of Burgess, Morsy, Broadhead and Chaplin going compared to him. I personally think his pre-Gsmechanger performances cast a shadow over him which we struggled to shake off, and I do understand that to a degree. But I think he's just going to be one of our polarising players moving forward who won't get the support that others have. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:18 - Sep 9 with 355 views | Portman_Pie |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 21:53 - Sep 9 by pointofblue |
There is an an adoration of O'Shea on here which the stats perhaps bear up but the eye test doesn't. This is an example. The way barely anything was said after his mistake against Derby is a another one.
Is he a good defender? For the most part. Is he worth up to £15m, £11m more than Woolfenden? Not for me. Another overspend when looking at relative squad improvement. |
I’m not convinced in the slightest that O’Shea is a first team captain who roars his team on, dishes out orders, conviction and persuasion. He seems to be tainted with back to back relegations and doesn’t have that winning mentality. I for one - would have wolfy over him, with 15M in the bank - and given the arm band to a youth Ipswich product. | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:18 - Sep 9 with 351 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:08 - Sep 9 by chantryblueboy |
Don’t recall Wolf giving the ball away and it leading to goals very often under the same manager. Can you name me 1 from the last Championship season?
No didn’t think so
Is there a stat for that? |
I can't remember what I had for breakfast let alone specific goals. But if I had the time and could be bothered yes I would but I can't be bothered tbh. There's missed headers. Tripped over balls. Bad passes on occasions. There was one weird one where Clarke passed it back to him. He left it for the keeper who was no where near it and they scored. That was an error by wolfy. There you go. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:19 - Sep 9 with 351 views | pointofblue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:09 - Sep 9 by FrimleyBlue |
Woah there. No dislike of wolfy from me. You're confusing me for arnie.
Wolfy is a ball playing cb. That's his skillset. We've moved on from that requirment. To our detriment? Perhaps in certain games. But defensively we have improved. It's when people say the defense it worse that I believe they are wrong, defence is fine. We just need to start scoring the chances we are creating. |
The issue defensively we've looked shambolic at certain points in every game so far. Every goal we've conceded so far has been really preventable. Overall, maybe we have reduced chances. But the ones we are gifting are almost embarrassing in their ease of getting in on goal. Silly errors, bad marking. We've scored four goals in three games. Not great, and we do have issues linking up moving forward. But more solid play at the back and we could have at least seven if not more points on the board. And that isn't just O'Shea. It's the entire defence.
I would also argue - until I am blue in the face - that the issue two seasons ago was the midfield was far too easy to play through. Teams cut us apart and got to the defence far too easily. This season it's been more a case of playing the ball over the top. And that is where O'Shea's strength should be. For the most part of it maybe is, but again errors are being made as well.
Perhaps one problem we're having is every chance on goal feels like it's going in against us at the moment. Hopefully it'll adjust to the mean.
(As an aside, O'Shea's defending was very poor in the OP's clip). | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:20 - Sep 9 with 335 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 21:53 - Sep 9 by pointofblue |
There is an an adoration of O'Shea on here which the stats perhaps bear up but the eye test doesn't. This is an example. The way barely anything was said after his mistake against Derby is a another one.
Is he a good defender? For the most part. Is he worth up to £15m, £11m more than Woolfenden? Not for me. Another overspend when looking at relative squad improvement. |
The eye test tells us he's a very good player as we saw for large parts of last season with real room to improve. A silly mistake in possession against Derby does not change that.
And he's easily worth £15M, we could sell him for more tomorrow. A 26YO with years of PL and International experience is unsurprisingly very highly sought after.
We are lucky he's here. | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:22 - Sep 9 with 314 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:11 - Sep 9 by chantryblueboy |
You’ve literally just made a point that O’Shea cost us a goal as he was asked to play with the ball, so clearly we haven’t evolved past that being a requirement |
Jeez you're hard work
Yes we are asked to keep the ball. What you will notice however since osheas signing when comparing football with wolfy is the transition between defense and midfield, it's not a slow walk out with the ball trying to bring the press we are alot more direct with the passes. As I said above. To our detriment? Perhaps. But that's a change KM clearly wants. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:23 - Sep 9 with 309 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Not sure we can learn too much from that result. Personally I don’t think O’Shea is as good as some believe. He’s one of those who’s top end Championship player, but not quite good enough for the PL.
Whilst we’ve not conceded loads, we’ve yet to keep a clean sheet - always a chance of nicking a 1-0 if you can do that. Both CB’s have made mistakes that could have cost us a win, hopefully they’ll get better as the season goes on (their average ratings having been materially better than our forwards. Think Azor has the highest average which feels about right). | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:23 - Sep 9 with 303 views | LeoMuff |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:20 - Sep 9 by Bellevue_Blue |
The eye test tells us he's a very good player as we saw for large parts of last season with real room to improve. A silly mistake in possession against Derby does not change that.
And he's easily worth £15M, we could sell him for more tomorrow. A 26YO with years of PL and International experience is unsurprisingly very highly sought after.
We are lucky he's here. |
Also player of the season. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:27 - Sep 9 with 264 views | pointofblue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:20 - Sep 9 by Bellevue_Blue |
The eye test tells us he's a very good player as we saw for large parts of last season with real room to improve. A silly mistake in possession against Derby does not change that.
And he's easily worth £15M, we could sell him for more tomorrow. A 26YO with years of PL and International experience is unsurprisingly very highly sought after.
We are lucky he's here. |
He's not worth £11m more than Woolfenden for me. Either we undersold Woolfenden or overpaid for O'Shea, one or the other. It's not just the mistake against Derby - I don't think he's brought enough improvement to the backline for the money paid.
Saying that, I don't think being partnered with Greaves helps either of them. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:30 - Sep 9 with 238 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:19 - Sep 9 by pointofblue |
The issue defensively we've looked shambolic at certain points in every game so far. Every goal we've conceded so far has been really preventable. Overall, maybe we have reduced chances. But the ones we are gifting are almost embarrassing in their ease of getting in on goal. Silly errors, bad marking. We've scored four goals in three games. Not great, and we do have issues linking up moving forward. But more solid play at the back and we could have at least seven if not more points on the board. And that isn't just O'Shea. It's the entire defence.
I would also argue - until I am blue in the face - that the issue two seasons ago was the midfield was far too easy to play through. Teams cut us apart and got to the defence far too easily. This season it's been more a case of playing the ball over the top. And that is where O'Shea's strength should be. For the most part of it maybe is, but again errors are being made as well.
Perhaps one problem we're having is every chance on goal feels like it's going in against us at the moment. Hopefully it'll adjust to the mean.
(As an aside, O'Shea's defending was very poor in the OP's clip). |
There's no side in football where at certain points in games the defensive doesn't seem under pressure or even a shambles. They get caught out. A fullback can be further forward than they want or ball has deflected and caused panic. You'll always get a bit of panic. But overall we've coped with it well.
Of course individual errors. But there's a host of players involved in these goals that could have still prevented them which weren't just those two cbs.
Also this defence has a bad ball playing keeper behind it who isn't the most commanding keeper in the league either so tbh they've coped quite well considering.
Anyways off to bed now.
We can probably argue this all season lol.
But no I don't dislike wolfy. Just that we out grew him. No different to any others who have left. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:31 - Sep 9 with 225 views | Illinoisblue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:27 - Sep 9 by pointofblue |
He's not worth £11m more than Woolfenden for me. Either we undersold Woolfenden or overpaid for O'Shea, one or the other. It's not just the mistake against Derby - I don't think he's brought enough improvement to the backline for the money paid.
Saying that, I don't think being partnered with Greaves helps either of them. |
Both can be true, I think. |  |
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