| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf 21:08 - Sep 9 with 9503 views | chantryblueboy |
LOL |  | | |  |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:14 - Sep 10 with 734 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:03 - Sep 10 by Everydayblue |
Not worth enough, you mean?
Dry your eyes mate. LW has moved on. He's gone from our bench to Cov's bench.
KM has worked up close and personal with Wolfy for 3 seasons or more. Knows his limitations and rewarded him with a nice new contract and a squad role befitting of his place in the pecking order.
Picking on Dara's form, doesn't make Wolfy a better player.
Personally got more respect for Burgess.... Can't imagine Wolfy having half his face caved in , from sticking his head in where it hurts.
But he plays a lovely 3 yard sideways pass, I guess? Assuming there's no one within 20 yards of him.
Let's see how he does at Cov' without the benefit of Morsy in front of him.
Got absolutely schooled by Sinclair Armstrong last time round in Championship. If you want to talk about past performances....
Swings and Roundabouts. |
Kept a clean sheet vs Armstrong btw | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:23 - Sep 10 with 693 views | pointofblue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:03 - Sep 10 by Everydayblue |
Not worth enough, you mean?
Dry your eyes mate. LW has moved on. He's gone from our bench to Cov's bench.
KM has worked up close and personal with Wolfy for 3 seasons or more. Knows his limitations and rewarded him with a nice new contract and a squad role befitting of his place in the pecking order.
Picking on Dara's form, doesn't make Wolfy a better player.
Personally got more respect for Burgess.... Can't imagine Wolfy having half his face caved in , from sticking his head in where it hurts.
But he plays a lovely 3 yard sideways pass, I guess? Assuming there's no one within 20 yards of him.
Let's see how he does at Cov' without the benefit of Morsy in front of him.
Got absolutely schooled by Sinclair Armstrong last time round in Championship. If you want to talk about past performances....
Swings and Roundabouts. |
And this is why I'm so defensive. There's reasonable argument and then there's ripping someone to shreds for little reason. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:25 - Sep 10 with 687 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 11:25 - Sep 10 by chantryblueboy |
He made the most appearances for every single manager since and including Lambert, up until last season |
Every single manager since Lambert?!?
Seriously? Both of them?
Lambert and Cook played him quite a bit isn't really a flex is it?!
I don't mind woolfie, been a decent servant, would have been okay back up, but we move along. Not slagging him off, but some of the contortions on here to paint him as the next Maldini are a bit silly. |  | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:27 - Sep 10 with 670 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:25 - Sep 10 by Axeldalai_lama |
Every single manager since Lambert?!?
Seriously? Both of them?
Lambert and Cook played him quite a bit isn't really a flex is it?!
I don't mind woolfie, been a decent servant, would have been okay back up, but we move along. Not slagging him off, but some of the contortions on here to paint him as the next Maldini are a bit silly. |
Well, the bloke said he’d been cast off by every manager he’d played for when actually there was a point in time when he’d made the most appearances for all 3, so demonstrably not true isnt it? | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:27 - Sep 10 with 669 views | pointofblue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:25 - Sep 10 by Axeldalai_lama |
Every single manager since Lambert?!?
Seriously? Both of them?
Lambert and Cook played him quite a bit isn't really a flex is it?!
I don't mind woolfie, been a decent servant, would have been okay back up, but we move along. Not slagging him off, but some of the contortions on here to paint him as the next Maldini are a bit silly. |
Some may seem to present him as the next Maldini. The issue is others seem to describe him as the worst player ever to wear the shirt.
So there is a lack of balance on both sides. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:33 - Sep 10 with 633 views | Dubtractor |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:27 - Sep 10 by pointofblue |
Some may seem to present him as the next Maldini. The issue is others seem to describe him as the worst player ever to wear the shirt.
So there is a lack of balance on both sides. |
On that note, is it surprising that you've seen that reaction when the OP was specifically having a pop at our current captain, for the crime of making a mistake in a game, who he then described as a mercenary?
Thats how this whole thread started.
If you want to share how you are frustrated about Woolfy leaving, go for it, but if you are repeatedly having a pop ar a current player who hasn't let us down then you can probably get in the bin. |  |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:39 - Sep 10 with 599 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:33 - Sep 10 by Dubtractor |
On that note, is it surprising that you've seen that reaction when the OP was specifically having a pop at our current captain, for the crime of making a mistake in a game, who he then described as a mercenary?
Thats how this whole thread started.
If you want to share how you are frustrated about Woolfy leaving, go for it, but if you are repeatedly having a pop ar a current player who hasn't let us down then you can probably get in the bin. |
Hasnt let us down  | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:45 - Sep 10 with 563 views | Kieran_Knows |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 12:34 - Sep 10 by chantryblueboy |
Didn’t cost enough |
As you quite rightly point out, McKenna virtually played him in every game for 2 and half years …. So I go back to my point, if he was virtually ever present for 100+ games, what was it about his game that he didn’t think would suit Prem football? Take the money out of it, that’s irrelevant. If he was as good as you’re making out (which I don’t particularly disagree with), then he wouldn’t have replaced him, at the first opportunity which knocked. |  |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:51 - Sep 10 with 528 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:45 - Sep 10 by Kieran_Knows |
As you quite rightly point out, McKenna virtually played him in every game for 2 and half years …. So I go back to my point, if he was virtually ever present for 100+ games, what was it about his game that he didn’t think would suit Prem football? Take the money out of it, that’s irrelevant. If he was as good as you’re making out (which I don’t particularly disagree with), then he wouldn’t have replaced him, at the first opportunity which knocked. |
The money is obviously not irrelevant. | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:54 - Sep 10 with 504 views | Kieran_Knows |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:51 - Sep 10 by chantryblueboy |
The money is obviously not irrelevant. |
Of course it is, if you’re making out that Woolfenden is better than O’Shea, and McKenna shared that same view, then he wouldn’t have replaced him at the first time of asking. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:55 - Sep 10 with 494 views | positivity |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:51 - Sep 10 by chantryblueboy |
The money is obviously not irrelevant. |
only in so much as that if o'shea was available for 4m, there'd be a big queue of prem/parachute teams clamouring for his signature rather than just frank lampard's coventry. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:56 - Sep 10 with 493 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:54 - Sep 10 by Kieran_Knows |
Of course it is, if you’re making out that Woolfenden is better than O’Shea, and McKenna shared that same view, then he wouldn’t have replaced him at the first time of asking. |
Yeah but once theyve spent the money, they have to justify the money theyve spent to the owners the next time they go asking for it. If we spent £100m last summer and then continued to play the championship team i dont think the owners would have been best pleased | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:57 - Sep 10 with 484 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:55 - Sep 10 by positivity |
only in so much as that if o'shea was available for 4m, there'd be a big queue of prem/parachute teams clamouring for his signature rather than just frank lampard's coventry. |
No there wouldn’t | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 14:01 - Sep 10 with 460 views | positivity |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:57 - Sep 10 by chantryblueboy |
No there wouldn’t |
burnley, wolves and leeds were keen at multiples of that price, hence the new contract.
burnley and ipswich both paid significantly more than 4m for him, in a weaker market | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 14:11 - Sep 10 with 402 views | Everydayblue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:23 - Sep 10 by pointofblue |
And this is why I'm so defensive. There's reasonable argument and then there's ripping someone to shreds for little reason. |
Prefer to defend our Club Captain and our Club.
Rather than Ex players that asked to leave.
This is my opinion. You can have yours. | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 14:13 - Sep 10 with 392 views | Everydayblue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:14 - Sep 10 by chantryblueboy |
Kept a clean sheet vs Armstrong btw |
Hladky was amazing that season. | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 14:26 - Sep 10 with 346 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:57 - Sep 10 by chantryblueboy |
No there wouldn’t |
Look lets compare the two
Luke Woolfenden
24/25 15% for tackles, 9% for ground duels won, 54% for aerial duals won prem
23/24 22% for tackles, 15% for ground duals won, 71% for aerial duals won champ
22/23 20% for tackles, 24% for ground duals won, 79% for aeirial duals won league 1
Dara Oshea
24/25 41% for tackles, 68% for ground duals won, 96% for aerial duals won prem
23/24 29% for tackles, 66% for ground duals won, 97% for aerial duals won prem
22/23 22% for tackles, 56% for ground duals won, 90% for aerial duals won champ
Head to head on Defensive areas, there's a very clear reason why
1 - oshea holds more value than wolfy
2 - why oshea was purchased to replace wolfy in the prem
3 - why oshea is captain and our current CB and hopefully for many years to come
What Wolfy was solid at under KM was his passing stats, which over the seasons were in the top 90%, last season however in his cameos he came in at 40 odd% which makes sense considering we didn't control any games, and we didn't really want to invite the press, so really it's not that surprising that KM saw this coming and brought in O'shea for his increased defensive experience and skills over the short passing game of wolfy. [Post edited 10 Sep 14:41]
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 14:27 - Sep 10 with 333 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 14:26 - Sep 10 by FrimleyBlue |
Look lets compare the two
Luke Woolfenden
24/25 15% for tackles, 9% for ground duels won, 54% for aerial duals won prem
23/24 22% for tackles, 15% for ground duals won, 71% for aerial duals won champ
22/23 20% for tackles, 24% for ground duals won, 79% for aeirial duals won league 1
Dara Oshea
24/25 41% for tackles, 68% for ground duals won, 96% for aerial duals won prem
23/24 29% for tackles, 66% for ground duals won, 97% for aerial duals won prem
22/23 22% for tackles, 56% for ground duals won, 90% for aerial duals won champ
Head to head on Defensive areas, there's a very clear reason why
1 - oshea holds more value than wolfy
2 - why oshea was purchased to replace wolfy in the prem
3 - why oshea is captain and our current CB and hopefully for many years to come
What Wolfy was solid at under KM was his passing stats, which over the seasons were in the top 90%, last season however in his cameos he came in at 40 odd% which makes sense considering we didn't control any games, and we didn't really want to invite the press, so really it's not that surprising that KM saw this coming and brought in O'shea for his increased defensive experience and skills over the short passing game of wolfy. [Post edited 10 Sep 14:41]
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How many times are you going to quote meaningless stats at me after I’ve explained why I find no value in them and expect me to care? | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 14:35 - Sep 10 with 309 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 14:27 - Sep 10 by chantryblueboy |
How many times are you going to quote meaningless stats at me after I’ve explained why I find no value in them and expect me to care? |
Maybe because something may make you think actually my infatuation with wolfy is because he played for the academy not because he's actually a better defender than Oshea,
you can say stats mean nothing, but you don't get high levels of stats without performance. or are you going to tell me wolfy won more headers than oshea? | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 14:55 - Sep 10 with 263 views | longtimefan |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 14:35 - Sep 10 by FrimleyBlue |
Maybe because something may make you think actually my infatuation with wolfy is because he played for the academy not because he's actually a better defender than Oshea,
you can say stats mean nothing, but you don't get high levels of stats without performance. or are you going to tell me wolfy won more headers than oshea? |
I suspect the only stat he's interested in is that O'Shea was brought up on Chantry  | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 15:09 - Sep 10 with 226 views | dirtyboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 01:08 - Sep 10 by Kieran_Knows |
Well, the manager clearly thinks O’Shea is better because a) the first chance to replace Woolfie last summer he did so, by spending £12m in the process and b) he’s just sold Woolfie even though we didn’t get another replacement in the door for him.
I love LW, think he was a top drawer centre half at this level and a real shame to see him leave, but you have to ask the question as to what it is about his game that McKenna doesn’t like as he was happy to replace him as soon as we got to the Prem.
FWIW, O’Shea just edges it for me, but I’d have liked to have seen LW stay.
The debate will always rage on whether people would be that bothered had he not come though our academy also. |
Catching up on this thread.
I may be way off here, and if so, I apologise to LW profusely, but wasn't he considered to be a very laid back person in training and I suspect with how McKenna runs things, it just didn't fit with his ethos, regardless of how well Luke played.
What i'm rightly or wrongly insinuating, is that LW perhaps wasn't putting the effort in training that would make him deserving of a place, when you have a culture of hard work.
I'm not basing this on anything other than Lambert's comments a number of years ago about "checking for a pulse".
Worth noting that was playing for Lambert, so probably hard to motivate yourself for that plank, so context needed.
Whatever way you look at it, seems odd he was dropped so quickly.
For clarity, was a fan of Wolfy, but also like what O'Shea brings if we play further up the pitch now (correct thing to do with our current goalkeeper imo). |  | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 15:38 - Sep 10 with 175 views | itfcjoe |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 15:09 - Sep 10 by dirtyboy |
Catching up on this thread.
I may be way off here, and if so, I apologise to LW profusely, but wasn't he considered to be a very laid back person in training and I suspect with how McKenna runs things, it just didn't fit with his ethos, regardless of how well Luke played.
What i'm rightly or wrongly insinuating, is that LW perhaps wasn't putting the effort in training that would make him deserving of a place, when you have a culture of hard work.
I'm not basing this on anything other than Lambert's comments a number of years ago about "checking for a pulse".
Worth noting that was playing for Lambert, so probably hard to motivate yourself for that plank, so context needed.
Whatever way you look at it, seems odd he was dropped so quickly.
For clarity, was a fan of Wolfy, but also like what O'Shea brings if we play further up the pitch now (correct thing to do with our current goalkeeper imo). |
Dara O'Shea is physically superior to Luke Woolfenden, that's the difference between them and we have spent £150m on getting players who are probably similar/slightly better footballers but far superior athletes into the squad.
Woolfie may have been laid back etc, but no way does he play as many games as he has for McKenna if he's not seriously professional at basically all times.
DO'S is quicker over short distances, higher top speed, can jump higher and is stronger......football wise there isn't a huge amount in it for me and there are certainly some areas where Woolfie edges O'Shea.......but we have gone down the physicality route in all our upgrades |  |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 15:48 - Sep 10 with 139 views | dirtyboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 15:38 - Sep 10 by itfcjoe |
Dara O'Shea is physically superior to Luke Woolfenden, that's the difference between them and we have spent £150m on getting players who are probably similar/slightly better footballers but far superior athletes into the squad.
Woolfie may have been laid back etc, but no way does he play as many games as he has for McKenna if he's not seriously professional at basically all times.
DO'S is quicker over short distances, higher top speed, can jump higher and is stronger......football wise there isn't a huge amount in it for me and there are certainly some areas where Woolfie edges O'Shea.......but we have gone down the physicality route in all our upgrades |
Oh, I agree that O'Shea is the right physical profile, no arguments there at all.
I'm just offering something else to those arguing that they don't see that and there's 'possibly' more to it than just ability, which Wolfy does seem to have.
I felt bad typing it as it suggests Wolfy hasn't been professional and that's not what I was suggesting, just that perhaps he wasn't up to the levels in training, regardless of how well he played. Some people are just naturally fitter and faster and we're looking for every single advantage aren't we? | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 15:50 - Sep 10 with 131 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 15:38 - Sep 10 by itfcjoe |
Dara O'Shea is physically superior to Luke Woolfenden, that's the difference between them and we have spent £150m on getting players who are probably similar/slightly better footballers but far superior athletes into the squad.
Woolfie may have been laid back etc, but no way does he play as many games as he has for McKenna if he's not seriously professional at basically all times.
DO'S is quicker over short distances, higher top speed, can jump higher and is stronger......football wise there isn't a huge amount in it for me and there are certainly some areas where Woolfie edges O'Shea.......but we have gone down the physicality route in all our upgrades |
I honestly don't understand why it's questionned tbh, Oshea wins 3 times the number of ground duals than wolfy, it's not highly surprising KM wanted more form his defenders.
Burgess in the champ - 59% ground duals Greaves - 96%
Wolfy in the champ 15% ground duals Oshea 66% in the prem for ground duals
Both CB replacement's have indeed had their own individual errors, but OFF the ball, they are both incredibly solid defenders and the minimal XGA is testament this season to how good they are as defenders. On the ball is different matter entirely, however we appear to play differently with the ball than we did in 23 anyway. [Post edited 10 Sep 15:51]
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 15:57 - Sep 10 with 109 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 15:50 - Sep 10 by FrimleyBlue |
I honestly don't understand why it's questionned tbh, Oshea wins 3 times the number of ground duals than wolfy, it's not highly surprising KM wanted more form his defenders.
Burgess in the champ - 59% ground duals Greaves - 96%
Wolfy in the champ 15% ground duals Oshea 66% in the prem for ground duals
Both CB replacement's have indeed had their own individual errors, but OFF the ball, they are both incredibly solid defenders and the minimal XGA is testament this season to how good they are as defenders. On the ball is different matter entirely, however we appear to play differently with the ball than we did in 23 anyway. [Post edited 10 Sep 15:51]
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It’s so obvious that you don’t understand how different styles of play affect these stats, or how good Wolf is off the ball | | | |
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