| Andy Burnham watch .... 08:55 - Sep 16 with 4141 views | Keno |
Andrew Gwyne is rumoured to be standing down as MP for Gorton & Denton (edge of Manchester), which he held with a 13,000 plus majority for Labour
Since been suspended and probably not on Starmers Christmas card list |  |
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| Andy Burnham watch .... on 12:15 - Sep 16 with 896 views | jasondozzell |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 11:49 - Sep 16 by positivity |
if we didn't have such a weak opposition to brexit led by a brexiteer labour leader, we could've avoided this nightmare.
burnham is a far better communicator than corbyn and much more popular with people outside the islington bubble |
The EU is fundamentally a trading bloc.
People, like Corbyn, are entitled to their opinion. I think he was right about 7/10
He supported remain.
The vote happened. Blame Cameron for it happening if you like but not Corbyn.
The idea Brexit is the single driver of all this is farcical.
Burnham is not going to be the answer and everyone knows that. He's part of the old guard. |  | | |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 12:19 - Sep 16 with 865 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 12:13 - Sep 16 by NthQldITFC |
Well, he'd never been a good little capitalist... |
Interested enough in money to take it from the Iranian regime though. |  | | |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 12:21 - Sep 16 with 859 views | positivity |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 12:15 - Sep 16 by jasondozzell |
The EU is fundamentally a trading bloc.
People, like Corbyn, are entitled to their opinion. I think he was right about 7/10
He supported remain.
The vote happened. Blame Cameron for it happening if you like but not Corbyn.
The idea Brexit is the single driver of all this is farcical.
Burnham is not going to be the answer and everyone knows that. He's part of the old guard. |
"supported" in the same way that a vocal minority on here support ipswich town by criticising everything about them!
no brexit means boris never becomes pm, farage remains as a minor eurosceptic voice
corbyn is not the answer to anything (maybe "most likely to be the winner of the biggest marrow grower in the over 75s category of the islington allotment association") | |
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| Andy Burnham watch .... on 13:34 - Sep 16 with 705 views | lowhouseblue |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 11:16 - Sep 16 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Growth would be generated via the tax generated being reinvested in the economy. In the US and Canada infrastructure projects (including state funded civil engineering) have generated significant growth. Whereas we have crumbling infrastructure, schools hospitals, bridges, roads, ports, airports etc could all generate income and growth.
Taxing passive income from ownership of certain assets isn’t going to affect growth. If you think of the companies and individuals with residential property portfolios they are merely a drain on growth, squeezing people’s disposable income. They certainly aren’t generating profit overseas and reducing our deficit or growing UK PLC. |
but what you describe as 'passive assets' is where investment comes from. economics 101 is that if you introduce a new tax on previously untaxed activities you will cause a change in behaviour in order to manage that tax. those changes in behaviour have real (dead weight) costs. efficiency falls and things like investment suffer.
so to justify a wealth tax you need the benefits to outweigh those costs. to justify the effects of redeploying assets into a non-taxable form and avoiding activities that would create tax exposure you need to believe the tax revenue will contribute significantly to the government budget. in the current fiscal position it has to be tens of billions to make it significant. are there any examples world wide of wealth taxes raising tens of billions year after year? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Andy Burnham watch .... on 13:37 - Sep 16 with 691 views | lowhouseblue |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 12:15 - Sep 16 by jasondozzell |
The EU is fundamentally a trading bloc.
People, like Corbyn, are entitled to their opinion. I think he was right about 7/10
He supported remain.
The vote happened. Blame Cameron for it happening if you like but not Corbyn.
The idea Brexit is the single driver of all this is farcical.
Burnham is not going to be the answer and everyone knows that. He's part of the old guard. |
he supported remain because his leadership wouldn't have survived him being openly hostile to it. he went on holiday in the middle of the referendum campaign. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Andy Burnham watch .... on 14:09 - Sep 16 with 637 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 13:34 - Sep 16 by lowhouseblue |
but what you describe as 'passive assets' is where investment comes from. economics 101 is that if you introduce a new tax on previously untaxed activities you will cause a change in behaviour in order to manage that tax. those changes in behaviour have real (dead weight) costs. efficiency falls and things like investment suffer.
so to justify a wealth tax you need the benefits to outweigh those costs. to justify the effects of redeploying assets into a non-taxable form and avoiding activities that would create tax exposure you need to believe the tax revenue will contribute significantly to the government budget. in the current fiscal position it has to be tens of billions to make it significant. are there any examples world wide of wealth taxes raising tens of billions year after year? |
Maybe we are talking at cross purposes but I’m talking about passive income and wealth in relation to individuals (as opposed to corporations, our Corp tax is at G20 median so I don’t think we are an outlier there). It’s possible to have different capital gains rates for individuals and corporations, as is the case in many countries.
If you are a billionaire, or multimillionaire taking income from your equities, or a loan against the value of your equity then you are currently paying much lower rates than someone who’s a nurse, teacher, banker, whatever. That’s not capital that’s going to be deployed in the wider economy, it’s just their net worth. Switzerland has a wealth tax which makes up around 4pc of a much lower tax base. They more than punch above their weight in terms of attracting inward investment and quality of life. Whilst it’s not going to dent our debt to gdp ratio, perhaps it could be ringfenced to start building a national wealth fund which I think is one of the best ways to improve the fiscal situation long term. | | | |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 15:39 - Sep 16 with 508 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 09:31 - Sep 16 by mutters |
"Maybe you could be the one to save me (the UK)" |
"And after all
Rebuild the Red Waaa-a-all" | | | |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 15:53 - Sep 16 with 449 views | lowhouseblue |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 14:09 - Sep 16 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Maybe we are talking at cross purposes but I’m talking about passive income and wealth in relation to individuals (as opposed to corporations, our Corp tax is at G20 median so I don’t think we are an outlier there). It’s possible to have different capital gains rates for individuals and corporations, as is the case in many countries.
If you are a billionaire, or multimillionaire taking income from your equities, or a loan against the value of your equity then you are currently paying much lower rates than someone who’s a nurse, teacher, banker, whatever. That’s not capital that’s going to be deployed in the wider economy, it’s just their net worth. Switzerland has a wealth tax which makes up around 4pc of a much lower tax base. They more than punch above their weight in terms of attracting inward investment and quality of life. Whilst it’s not going to dent our debt to gdp ratio, perhaps it could be ringfenced to start building a national wealth fund which I think is one of the best ways to improve the fiscal situation long term. |
you need to put tax changes in the context of other taxes. income from equities is taxed at a lower rate for individuals because company profits have already been taxed through corporation tax. otherwise you would be double taxing - and that would deter investment.
the swiss wealth tax is an alternative to capital gains tax which they do not have. many cantons don't have inheritance tax. total tax in switzerland as a percent of gdp is much lower there than in the uk. if you had both a capital gains tax and a swiss wealth tax you would again be double taxing. the uk can't copy switzerland without abolishing capital gains so as to match their tax structure on captial more generally. we need to compare like with like. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Andy Burnham watch .... on 16:06 - Sep 16 with 434 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 11:49 - Sep 16 by positivity |
if we didn't have such a weak opposition to brexit led by a brexiteer labour leader, we could've avoided this nightmare.
burnham is a far better communicator than corbyn and much more popular with people outside the islington bubble |
What is the 'Islington bubble'? The council estates where he is very popular? The young professionals stuck in the outrageously expensive private rented sector who he was offering hope to? There are some wealthy people in pockets of the borough but they are not his main constituency.
Corbyn was popular with groups of people around the country, not just in Islington. |  | | |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 16:30 - Sep 16 with 377 views | positivity |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 16:06 - Sep 16 by Clapham_Junction |
What is the 'Islington bubble'? The council estates where he is very popular? The young professionals stuck in the outrageously expensive private rented sector who he was offering hope to? There are some wealthy people in pockets of the borough but they are not his main constituency.
Corbyn was popular with groups of people around the country, not just in Islington. |
not as popular as the country needed him to be, the popularity was stacked up in the wrong places to win with fptp and he totally failed to push pr which might have helped his chances | |
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| Andy Burnham watch .... on 16:39 - Sep 16 with 358 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 16:30 - Sep 16 by positivity |
not as popular as the country needed him to be, the popularity was stacked up in the wrong places to win with fptp and he totally failed to push pr which might have helped his chances |
I'm aware of that. I was asking what the Islington bubble is meant to mean? | | | |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 16:54 - Sep 16 with 322 views | Radlett_blue |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 10:36 - Sep 16 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I agree they aren’t going to achieve miracles- but to actually see waiting lists worse than under the previous government is nothing but a failure.
And I agree wealth taxes aren’t the panacea- you could probably confiscate the entire net worth of the billionaires resident in the UK and would struggle to pay our pensions for a single year. Nonetheless taxes need to rise, and the wealthy should pay more. |
Starmer has had a few problems.
1. It's always easier to look good in opposition, name-calling when you don't have to take responsibility for any decisions. Actually being in government is much harder.
2. If he is to act like a Labour leader & spend more on public services, he needs to find the money from somewhere. Borrowing more has already been closed off by financial markets, he bottled any proposed welfare cuts so his only option is to raise taxes. Income tax is the fairest way of doing so, but he pledged "not to raise taxes on working people" so he's a bit stuck, isn't he?
3. I thought he would be on OK, if rather dull, PM but his judgement has come over as incredibly poor internal cases like Rayner & Meddlesome. This has made him look weak & indecisive. |  |
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| Andy Burnham watch .... on 16:57 - Sep 16 with 318 views | Blueschev |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 16:30 - Sep 16 by positivity |
not as popular as the country needed him to be, the popularity was stacked up in the wrong places to win with fptp and he totally failed to push pr which might have helped his chances |
Corbyn got absolutely trounced in 2019 with 1 million more votes than Starmer's landslide victory in 2024. If that doesn't tell you there are serious issues with a democratic deficit in this country I don't know what does.
There has also never been a media wide campaign against a politician in the same way there was against Corbyn throughout his leadership. It was disgusting.
There were hundreds of thousands of people cheering and clapping the great replacement theory on Saturday in London. Where are the "Enough is enough" gang? Where is their outrage at actual antisemitism? It's almost as if most of them didn't actually care about it. [Post edited 16 Sep 17:00]
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| Andy Burnham watch .... on 17:10 - Sep 16 with 283 views | positivity |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 16:57 - Sep 16 by Blueschev |
Corbyn got absolutely trounced in 2019 with 1 million more votes than Starmer's landslide victory in 2024. If that doesn't tell you there are serious issues with a democratic deficit in this country I don't know what does.
There has also never been a media wide campaign against a politician in the same way there was against Corbyn throughout his leadership. It was disgusting.
There were hundreds of thousands of people cheering and clapping the great replacement theory on Saturday in London. Where are the "Enough is enough" gang? Where is their outrage at actual antisemitism? It's almost as if most of them didn't actually care about it. [Post edited 16 Sep 17:00]
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he had a chance to call for changes to the democratic deficit/our voting system, don't remember him pushing for it?
i agree that the left should be pushing against the far-right marches instead of cheering it on as clive lewis seemed to be doing. what was corbyn saying about it? | |
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| Andy Burnham watch .... on 17:13 - Sep 16 with 274 views | Guthrum |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 10:23 - Sep 16 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
But the poll result are partly driven by the failure to provide any improvement to public services. He’s absolutely tanked in the polls. It can’t be a lack of doctors and surgeons because we’ve had record migration (unless that’s creating additional pressures). So presumably we need more hospital beds etc? He’s committed to increasing defence spending to 3.5pc of GDP, so it’s about prioritising where we want to spend money. And additionally they’ve refused to implement any wealth taxes. GDP per capita has continued to flatline so there’s less money per head, suggesting we aren’t creating quality high skilled jobs.
In short it’s a sh1t show. |
But that is a function of the time aspect. People aren't prepared to wait five or ten years for a careful plan to bear fruit. They're shouting if change hasn't happened in mere months. Politicians know that, so they go for badly-thought-out quick fixes, which rarely fix anything (or create a raft of other issues). |  |
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| Andy Burnham watch .... on 17:15 - Sep 16 with 260 views | Radlett_blue |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 16:57 - Sep 16 by Blueschev |
Corbyn got absolutely trounced in 2019 with 1 million more votes than Starmer's landslide victory in 2024. If that doesn't tell you there are serious issues with a democratic deficit in this country I don't know what does.
There has also never been a media wide campaign against a politician in the same way there was against Corbyn throughout his leadership. It was disgusting.
There were hundreds of thousands of people cheering and clapping the great replacement theory on Saturday in London. Where are the "Enough is enough" gang? Where is their outrage at actual antisemitism? It's almost as if most of them didn't actually care about it. [Post edited 16 Sep 17:00]
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Starmer's Labour got 9.8m votes; Corbyn's Labour received 10.3m. Starmer did get 33.7% of the popular vote against Corbyn's 32%, but the fact that this translated into a landslide win with 411 out of the 650 seats is an affront to democracy. However, the incumbent party is always unlikely to want to change the rules. We did have a referendum as a sop to the Lib Dems in 2011 on the Alternative Vote (arguably a worse system than FPTP) & this was comfortably rejected by 2-1. | |
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| Andy Burnham watch .... on 17:19 - Sep 16 with 241 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 09:09 - Sep 16 by positivity |
was gutted when he lost out to corbyn; bit of a sliding doors moment right there for the uk |
My memory is of him not performing well in that leadership contest
At the time I thought Yvette Cooper was the best candidate
Then she proscribed Palestine Action.... |  | | |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 17:48 - Sep 16 with 198 views | jayessess |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 17:19 - Sep 16 by reusersfreekicks |
My memory is of him not performing well in that leadership contest
At the time I thought Yvette Cooper was the best candidate
Then she proscribed Palestine Action.... |
In fairness to Burnham I think all three candidates imagined, as we all did, that the Labour Party had been largely captured by the post-Thatcher consensus and that they'd all be fighting a contest well within the permissible range of centrist political opinion. Then they all got absolutely steamrollered when they discovered a large cohort of members old and new were actually anti-Blairism and anti-austerity.
Don't think he'd have the same issue this time (partly because the context is different and partly because he's different). [Post edited 16 Sep 17:50]
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| Andy Burnham watch .... on 18:06 - Sep 16 with 157 views | bournemouthblue |
| Andy Burnham watch .... on 08:59 - Sep 16 by soupytwist |
To what extent is the local Labour party able to choose its own candidate if there were to be a by-election?
Starmer wouldn't look good if there was pressure on them to choose anyone but Burnham. And he probably wouldn't welcome someone like Burnham looming over things from the back benches. |
I think local members generally choose them but the party may well bus potential career candidates in to compete in that process |  |
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