| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 13:56 - Oct 2 with 1044 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 13:13 - Oct 2 by Guthrum |
It's also about lack of understanding, misdirection of targeting. A synagogue in Manchester almost certainly has no direct links with - certainly no influence over - the government of Israel. Attacking the one will not hurt the other.
Similarly with mosques and Islamic terror organisations.
It's about dim and ill-informed, but rage-filled, individuals going after soft targets (which are actually innocent of the causes of their anger). |
And if that’s what this is about, it will also strengthen Netanyahu’s hand as he can use it to further weaponise genuine antisemitism to justify his attempt to eradicate Palestinians. And it would undermine progress here in the UK that’s been made on beginning to recognise that what’s going on in Gaza is not ok. It’s taken a long time for the voices supporting Netanyahu to quieten and for us to now be at the point where our government recognises the Palestinian state (although we’re still funding and helping to arm Israel, but that’s another point).
Nobody wins. That’s assuming it is the Palestine v Israel conflict brought to UK shores and not the ‘normal’ type of western antisemitism. |  |
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| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 14:03 - Oct 2 with 1008 views | DJR |
Given what appears to be the almost certain motive, this is both tragic and inexcusable and falls within this limb of the IHRA definition of antisemitism.
"Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel." |  | | |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 14:06 - Oct 2 with 997 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 13:14 - Oct 2 by Crawfordsboot |
What if the IDF had shot his younger brother or sister as they were queuing for food. Still not right of course but i could understand the why. |
I know what you mean. An eye for an eye and all that. Notwithstanding the victims not being related to a hypothetical scenario like that, as others have mentioned, I can’t understand how anyone would be able to kill another person, under any circumstances. Even the ones you mention. People obviously do kill, both illegally and legally, but I can’t imagine carrying out such an act. I can’t imagine being that lacking in empathy, that inhuman really. We’re a cooperative, social species. Which is presumably why ex-forces who’ve seen conflict have super high rates of mental illness. I’m waffling. | |
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| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 14:09 - Oct 2 with 980 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 13:39 - Oct 2 by Bobbychase |
On that basis, anyone whose relatives were killed on October 7 could go down the local mosque and start shooting. Nonsense. |
I think the poster you are replying to is trying to answer the "Why?" question rather than justify the action.
But today isn't a day for hypothesising, really. At least one regular poster, who has already responded to the thread, works within that local community and will know people who will know people who are directly effected.
And, of course, all Jewish posters will be feeling much less safe today.
Hopefully the rest of us feel sad at yet more senseless waste of human life and yet more people scarred forever by the horrors they have witnessed. But hopefully also determined to find ways to do our bit to build community/reach out to "the other"/love our neighbour.
The Jewish concept of "Shalom" is usually translated as "Peace" in English, but it embraces so much more than the absence of violence.
It speaks of right relationships. Shalom is relational peace. Things being made right.
It needs a lot of commitment and constant maintenance.
But it's worth it. |  | | |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 14:58 - Oct 2 with 867 views | Ryorry |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 13:23 - Oct 2 by BloomBlue |
What's that got to do with British people at a religious ceremony in the UK? |
Not least because many in that synagogue were quite likely to have been ant-Netanyahu and his extremist government too, as many Jewish people are, highlighting the ignorance already mentioned by some posters; and actually shown by others* on this thread (*attention cressi and CrawfordsBoot).
(Edited for clarity). [Post edited 2 Oct 15:33]
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| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:14 - Oct 2 with 813 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 13:18 - Oct 2 by BloomBlue |
And on Yom Kippur day, I guess that was deliberately chosen.
Mrs Bloom and son are currently at a synagogue (in London), apparently armed police have arrived to provide extra protection - UK 2025, what a country we live in.
I've suggested my Son not to wear his skull cap when he leaves the synagogue, but I know he won't, he won't give in to the racists, good man. Although I also know Mrs Bloom will insist they get a taxi, good woman.
The Jewish community was expecting something like this as the anti Jewish hatred has been increasing over the last couple of years. |
Awful. People should’ve have to live in fear and have security outside places of worship. It saddens me that you and yours have to worry about your safety.
Antisemitism has been a cancer that’s grown in recent years and there’s no excuse for it. If some good comes out of this horrific incident today, maybe it will be a catalyst for a concerted effort to tackle it. There are so many bad faith actors who stir up hatred against groups and encourage community fracturing (normally against minorities, not just Jews obviously). It’s about time something was done to tackle the haters. | |
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| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:21 - Oct 2 with 793 views | J2BLUE |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 13:14 - Oct 2 by Crawfordsboot |
What if the IDF had shot his younger brother or sister as they were queuing for food. Still not right of course but i could understand the why. |
lol, there it is. |  |
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| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:23 - Oct 2 with 789 views | Ryorry |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:14 - Oct 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Awful. People should’ve have to live in fear and have security outside places of worship. It saddens me that you and yours have to worry about your safety.
Antisemitism has been a cancer that’s grown in recent years and there’s no excuse for it. If some good comes out of this horrific incident today, maybe it will be a catalyst for a concerted effort to tackle it. There are so many bad faith actors who stir up hatred against groups and encourage community fracturing (normally against minorities, not just Jews obviously). It’s about time something was done to tackle the haters. |
Whilst I’d like to think that something good could come out of today, I have my doubts it will, sadly.
Good that we’re discussing it on here though. | |
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| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:25 - Oct 2 with 785 views | DJR |
I've had a Jewish best friend for forty years. In all that time we've rarely discussed Israel, not because it's a difficult subject, but because it is irrelevant to our friendship.
Indeed, I would no more blame him for what's goes on in Israel, than I would my neighbours who hail from Yorkshire. [Post edited 2 Oct 15:26]
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| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:28 - Oct 2 with 765 views | Blueschev |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:14 - Oct 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Awful. People should’ve have to live in fear and have security outside places of worship. It saddens me that you and yours have to worry about your safety.
Antisemitism has been a cancer that’s grown in recent years and there’s no excuse for it. If some good comes out of this horrific incident today, maybe it will be a catalyst for a concerted effort to tackle it. There are so many bad faith actors who stir up hatred against groups and encourage community fracturing (normally against minorities, not just Jews obviously). It’s about time something was done to tackle the haters. |
Social media seems to be a cesspit of antisemitism in recent months, often not related to the Middle East. I've seen barely disguised Nazi sympathies and classic conspiracy theories about bankers / revolutions / wars etc more and more recently. It's really sad. It's seems as though lesson from history are being forgotten. |  | | |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:33 - Oct 2 with 735 views | J2BLUE |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:28 - Oct 2 by Blueschev |
Social media seems to be a cesspit of antisemitism in recent months, often not related to the Middle East. I've seen barely disguised Nazi sympathies and classic conspiracy theories about bankers / revolutions / wars etc more and more recently. It's really sad. It's seems as though lesson from history are being forgotten. |
I hope everyone outside of those confirmed dead (RIP) are ok.
Completely agree with you. The amount of conspiracy sh1t is disgusting. I saw one comment about destroying Israel. Someone replied saying it should be all Jews and the original tweeter replied 'and who is Israel a safehaven for?'.
Absolutely insane. Really biting my tongue (not aimed at you) not to say what i'm thinking to a few posters on here but this isn't the thread to do it. | |
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| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:37 - Oct 2 with 725 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 14:58 - Oct 2 by Ryorry |
Not least because many in that synagogue were quite likely to have been ant-Netanyahu and his extremist government too, as many Jewish people are, highlighting the ignorance already mentioned by some posters; and actually shown by others* on this thread (*attention cressi and CrawfordsBoot).
(Edited for clarity). [Post edited 2 Oct 15:33]
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Good grief - I just don’t get the ignorance of some posters.
Of course today’s events are wrong. Of course it is wrong to conflate being israeli and being Jewish.
Of course an eye for an eye is wrong.
My first post was a response to someone who couldn’t understand why this had happened. I raised a possible reason, though said it was wrong thinking.
As to the increase in antisemitism around the world - why is this happening? It is in response to the acts of the Israeli Govt. A Government which at every opportunity conflates being Israeli with Jewishness so that any criticism of Israel is portrayed as anti semitic. A number of brave Jews call out this very behavior by Israel. (Attention Ryorry!) |  | | |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:39 - Oct 2 with 704 views | Ryorry |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:33 - Oct 2 by J2BLUE |
I hope everyone outside of those confirmed dead (RIP) are ok.
Completely agree with you. The amount of conspiracy sh1t is disgusting. I saw one comment about destroying Israel. Someone replied saying it should be all Jews and the original tweeter replied 'and who is Israel a safehaven for?'.
Absolutely insane. Really biting my tongue (not aimed at you) not to say what i'm thinking to a few posters on here but this isn't the thread to do it. |
Admire your restraint, but personally I couldn’t do that - this is exactly the time for ignorant people to have facts, rationality and proper reasoning presented to their faces, hence calling specific people out in my previous post. | |
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| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:44 - Oct 2 with 690 views | Ryorry |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:37 - Oct 2 by Crawfordsboot |
Good grief - I just don’t get the ignorance of some posters.
Of course today’s events are wrong. Of course it is wrong to conflate being israeli and being Jewish.
Of course an eye for an eye is wrong.
My first post was a response to someone who couldn’t understand why this had happened. I raised a possible reason, though said it was wrong thinking.
As to the increase in antisemitism around the world - why is this happening? It is in response to the acts of the Israeli Govt. A Government which at every opportunity conflates being Israeli with Jewishness so that any criticism of Israel is portrayed as anti semitic. A number of brave Jews call out this very behavior by Israel. (Attention Ryorry!) |
If that’s your actual view then fair enough.
But it’s certainly not how you wrote the post of yours that I was replying to - and I clearly wasn’t the only one to take it as I did. | |
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| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:50 - Oct 2 with 671 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:37 - Oct 2 by Crawfordsboot |
Good grief - I just don’t get the ignorance of some posters.
Of course today’s events are wrong. Of course it is wrong to conflate being israeli and being Jewish.
Of course an eye for an eye is wrong.
My first post was a response to someone who couldn’t understand why this had happened. I raised a possible reason, though said it was wrong thinking.
As to the increase in antisemitism around the world - why is this happening? It is in response to the acts of the Israeli Govt. A Government which at every opportunity conflates being Israeli with Jewishness so that any criticism of Israel is portrayed as anti semitic. A number of brave Jews call out this very behavior by Israel. (Attention Ryorry!) |
Royrry - i genuinely don’t understand why you mark this down (i.e. disagree with it)
I say the events are wrong, an eye for an eye is wrong, conflating Israeli with Jewishness is wrong.
Im assuming you agree with that, though perhaps not.
I then call out the Israeli Govt for at every opportunity conflating Israel and Jewishness. They do this to stifle criticism. Is it this point you disagree with? | | | |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:55 - Oct 2 with 646 views | noggin |
Horrible news. My thoughts are with those involved.
I am in Crete and today I visited the German War Cemetary, where over 4000 German soldiers are laid to rest. A somber place, obviously, but after reading about the war crimes they committed against the local people, it is difficult to feel anything for them.
At the time of the occupation, there were 300 Jews living on the Island. They were rounded up and put on a ship, to be transported to Auschwitz.
Tragically (or perhaps a blessing) A British submarine sunk the ship and everyone on board perished.
Tomorrow I am going to visit The Allied Forces War Cemetery at Souda. |  |
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| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:58 - Oct 2 with 626 views | Blueschev |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:37 - Oct 2 by Crawfordsboot |
Good grief - I just don’t get the ignorance of some posters.
Of course today’s events are wrong. Of course it is wrong to conflate being israeli and being Jewish.
Of course an eye for an eye is wrong.
My first post was a response to someone who couldn’t understand why this had happened. I raised a possible reason, though said it was wrong thinking.
As to the increase in antisemitism around the world - why is this happening? It is in response to the acts of the Israeli Govt. A Government which at every opportunity conflates being Israeli with Jewishness so that any criticism of Israel is portrayed as anti semitic. A number of brave Jews call out this very behavior by Israel. (Attention Ryorry!) |
I'd say that there has been an increase in racist / xenophobic attitudes in general in recent years, and where any form of racism festers, antisemitism is usually lurking in the background (see immigration = great replacement theory as one example).
We need to halt the normalisation of divisive and hateful attitudes that are becoming increasingly mainstream. | | | |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 16:03 - Oct 2 with 596 views | Ryorry |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:50 - Oct 2 by Crawfordsboot |
Royrry - i genuinely don’t understand why you mark this down (i.e. disagree with it)
I say the events are wrong, an eye for an eye is wrong, conflating Israeli with Jewishness is wrong.
Im assuming you agree with that, though perhaps not.
I then call out the Israeli Govt for at every opportunity conflating Israel and Jewishness. They do this to stifle criticism. Is it this point you disagree with? |
Of course I agree with your re-written view of what you meant re antisemitism/Netanyahu.
It was your calling me out for taking your badly written earlier post in the same way that 12+ other people had taken it that I was objecting to.
Clearly a misunderstanding and we fundamentally agree; let’s draw a line and move on. | |
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| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 16:05 - Oct 2 with 582 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 16:03 - Oct 2 by Ryorry |
Of course I agree with your re-written view of what you meant re antisemitism/Netanyahu.
It was your calling me out for taking your badly written earlier post in the same way that 12+ other people had taken it that I was objecting to.
Clearly a misunderstanding and we fundamentally agree; let’s draw a line and move on. |
But you still marked it down!
As you say - l think we actually agree so let’s move on | | | |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 16:05 - Oct 2 with 576 views | noggin |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:58 - Oct 2 by Blueschev |
I'd say that there has been an increase in racist / xenophobic attitudes in general in recent years, and where any form of racism festers, antisemitism is usually lurking in the background (see immigration = great replacement theory as one example).
We need to halt the normalisation of divisive and hateful attitudes that are becoming increasingly mainstream. |
“ We need to halt the normalisation of divisive and hateful attitudes that are becoming increasingly mainstream”
Sadly being spread by the likes of Farage, who is apparently leading the polls to be the next Prime Minister. Sad times indeed. | |
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| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 16:11 - Oct 2 with 556 views | blueasfook |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:33 - Oct 2 by J2BLUE |
I hope everyone outside of those confirmed dead (RIP) are ok.
Completely agree with you. The amount of conspiracy sh1t is disgusting. I saw one comment about destroying Israel. Someone replied saying it should be all Jews and the original tweeter replied 'and who is Israel a safehaven for?'.
Absolutely insane. Really biting my tongue (not aimed at you) not to say what i'm thinking to a few posters on here but this isn't the thread to do it. |
{EDIT} wrong of me to post that. [Post edited 2 Oct 16:25]
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| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 16:13 - Oct 2 with 542 views | Ryorry |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 16:05 - Oct 2 by Crawfordsboot |
But you still marked it down!
As you say - l think we actually agree so let’s move on |
I was going to suggest you edit your post on p1 in question to prevent further misunderstandings, but guess that would just confuse latecomers to the thread!
I’ve often wished there was a mechanism for voting on different parts of a thread … | |
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| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 16:19 - Oct 2 with 511 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:28 - Oct 2 by Blueschev |
Social media seems to be a cesspit of antisemitism in recent months, often not related to the Middle East. I've seen barely disguised Nazi sympathies and classic conspiracy theories about bankers / revolutions / wars etc more and more recently. It's really sad. It's seems as though lesson from history are being forgotten. |
It's a total cesspit of everything. The number of blue tick accounts shouting 'Remigration now' is awful. A decade ago anyone calling for non-white Brits to be deported would have been quickly told to STFU by pretty much all sides of the political spectrum, but it seems to have become normalised.
It's also ridiculously polarised. If Starmer tweets about anything Middle East-related, half the responses are people calling him a genocide supporter and the other half are calling him a Jew-hater for not supporting Israel enough. |  | | |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 16:49 - Oct 2 with 446 views | Ryorry |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 16:19 - Oct 2 by Clapham_Junction |
It's a total cesspit of everything. The number of blue tick accounts shouting 'Remigration now' is awful. A decade ago anyone calling for non-white Brits to be deported would have been quickly told to STFU by pretty much all sides of the political spectrum, but it seems to have become normalised.
It's also ridiculously polarised. If Starmer tweets about anything Middle East-related, half the responses are people calling him a genocide supporter and the other half are calling him a Jew-hater for not supporting Israel enough. |
Appreciate your main point, but do think it’s sad that the good things that social media still does is now generally getting thrown out with the dirty bathwater.
This place is social media too! | |
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| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 16:52 - Oct 2 with 433 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Sounds horrific in Manchester on 15:28 - Oct 2 by Blueschev |
Social media seems to be a cesspit of antisemitism in recent months, often not related to the Middle East. I've seen barely disguised Nazi sympathies and classic conspiracy theories about bankers / revolutions / wars etc more and more recently. It's really sad. It's seems as though lesson from history are being forgotten. |
Luckily I miss all that rubbish by not being on those sort of platforms. But I also miss the useful things social media can provide too. We’ve just unleashed social media on people without really thinking about the impacts. I’m not sure what can be done if people chose to consume this sort of material, but something needs to be done. | |
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